IRC logs of #boinc for Sunday, 2007-10-21

00:06 <PovAddict> kthxbai

00:08 <efc> bzzzt

00:25 <MTughan> Could be the sound card. Could also be that wave sound is off.

00:26 <sethy> i've checked it all

00:26 <sethy> its all on

00:27 <sethy> it happened yesterday

00:27 <sethy> one minute it was working the next it wasnt

00:27 <MTughan> Well, sound card sounds like a last resort. Unless the speakers aren't plugged in all the way.

00:27 <sethy> it finished a song then like 3 minutes later i realised, hey why isnt it playing musix

00:27 <MTughan> Check the speaker connection to the card.

00:28 <sethy> ok now can i speak to someone who grasps the concept of i've checked all the basic

00:28 <MTughan> You mean me?

00:29 <sethy> i'm going in a mo anyway so dont waste your fingers

00:29 <MTughan> Hehe...

00:30 <MTughan> Interesting... VirtualBox uses a kernel extension/

00:30 <MTughan> s/\//./

00:31 <sethy> Romulus: can has cheeseburger?

00:31 <Romulus> sethy: Error: You need to have PySQLite installed to use this plugin.  Download it at <>

00:31 <sethy> :o

00:33 <MTughan> Ooh... VirtualBox can support virtual hard disks up to 2TB... >:)

00:33 <MTughan> Not that I can actually store that much info, but anyways...

00:33 <sethy> i can

00:34 <MTughan> There you go. I don't happen to have a RAID array of my own for my laptop.

00:34 <sethy> i do

00:34 <MTughan> I figured.

00:34 <sethy> i guess

00:34 <MTughan> Okay, I get it...

00:34 <sethy> i knew it

00:35 <sethy> i lol'd

00:35 <MTughan> I've shut up.

00:35 <sethy> i stfu

00:35 <sethy> i pod

00:35 <sethy> i now stfu

00:35 *** sethy is now known as seth_afk

00:38 <MTughan> Dammit, I killed that yoyo@home WU...

00:39 <MTughan> Seems to be if it's aborted even just once, it's dead.

00:39 <MTughan> s/aborted/suspended/

00:39 <MTughan> Of course if it's aborted, it's dead. :P

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00:43 <efc> not that it really matters but.. is there a way to join several disks into one virtual big disk?

00:43 <MTughan> RAID.

00:45 <efc> i remember there being some way to do it in dos, SUBST or something like that

00:45 <MTughan> Not sure. RAID is the only one I know.

00:50 <MTughan> Hmm... VirtualBox doesn't seem too bad.

00:51 <MTughan> Certainly faster than QEMU.

00:51 <MTughan> Maybe not as fast as VMware Fusion...

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01:04 <BiteAbleKat> ive been thinking about using this one thing that enables you to run a linux operating system from a virtual computer through a dvd

01:04 <BiteAbleKat> then i wont have to screw up my computer

01:04 <MTughan> Yeah, but you start running into speed issues.

01:05 <MTughan> CD/DVDs can only be read so fast.

01:06 <BiteAbleKat> in the past ive gotten some linux o/s installed and run to a point where i really dont know what to do

01:06 <BiteAbleKat> i need someway to become comfortable with the whole thing

01:06 <MTughan> Think of it as Windows.

01:08 <MTughan> Just not as bad. ;)

01:12 <MTughan> Okay, Gutsy going into first time setup in VirtualBox...

01:13 <MTughan> Okay, seems to be working just fine.

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01:19 <MTughan> Okay, I'm gonna play around with this tomorrow. I need sleep.

01:34 <quail> afternoon all

02:08 <efc> moo q

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05:58 * FauxFaux epically fails to work out how to copy files to a codd, where codd+this machine have a ssh keypair to disalow anything but copying to a certain file, gah. :/

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06:05 <yoyo_RKN> hi ;)

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06:12 <mweltin> I'm working on a new project and have a question about the db_dump task.

06:13 <mweltin> is there an argument I can pass to it to change the permission on the stats dir it generates?

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07:31 * quail stuck in terminal mode atm

07:40 <quail> SysInfo: Linux 2.6.22-14-generic |  Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 1.60GHz 1595.345 MHz | Bogomips: 3194.49 | Mem: 1116/1265M [||||||||||] | Diskspace: 264.39G Free: 205.46G | Procs: 72 | Uptime: 2 days 11 hrs 4 mins 47 secs | Load: 0.86 0.88 0.84  | Screen: nVidia Corporation NV18 [GeForce4 MX 440 AGP 8x] (rev a2) GPU clock:  | eth0: In: 757.69M Out: 141.05M

07:40 <quail> Sensors: HDD: 41°C

07:42 <quail> CoderForLife: you going to get adverts and all on this recording

08:24 <MTughan> 'lo all

08:26 <quail> MTughan: hiya

08:26 * xcamel_away is back.

08:26 *** xcamel_away is now known as xcamel

08:26 <xcamel> 'lo

08:26 <quail> hiya Jay

08:26 <MTughan> Darn it again... And I have to leave.

08:26 <MTughan> 'lo quail and xcamel

08:26 <MTughan> Well, see you guys.

08:27 <quail> bye bye MTughan

08:40 <xcamel> so... wazzup?

08:43 * quail recording a program for CoderForLife about AUS

08:44 <quail> down to my computer hence i am in pure terminal mode atm

08:44 <quail> killed all my gdm off to get the extra ram back etc

08:44 <quail> SysInfo: Linux 2.6.22-14-generic |  Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 1.60GHz 1595.345 MHz | Bogomips: 3194.49 | Mem: 1113/1265M [||||||||||] | Diskspace: 264.39G Free: 202.19G | Procs: 72 | Uptime: 2 days 12 hrs 8 mins 56 secs | Load: 1.03 0.97 0.91  | Screen: nVidia Corporation NV18 [GeForce4 MX 440 AGP 8x] (rev a2) GPU clock:  | eth0: In: 757.79M Out: 141.09M

08:44 <quail> Sensors: HDD: 36°C

08:45 <quail> 4.9GB audio/video to my hdd atm

08:54 <quail> another 15 mins of recording left

08:54 <quail> 5.4GB audio/video to my hdd atm

09:03 <xcamel> what are you loading?

09:09 <quail> i am recording a doco about AUS for you and CoderForLife and othe OS people i know

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09:26 <xcamel> poof!

09:30 <quail> ok that has all recorded down nicely, well the best i can do with what i have here

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09:34 <quail> SysInfo: Linux 2.6.22-14-generic |  Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 1.60GHz 1595.345 MHz | Bogomips: 3194.49 | Mem: 1036/1265M [||||||||||] | Diskspace: 264.39G Free: 200.08G | Procs: 109 | Uptime: 2 days 12 hrs 59 mins 5 secs | Load: 1.52 1.07 1.01  | Screen: nVidia Corporation NV18 [GeForce4 MX 440 AGP 8x] (rev a2) @ 1440x900 (32 bpp) GPU clock: 249.750 MHz | eth0: In: 758.00M Out: 141.13M

09:34 <xcamel> bbiab...

09:34 <quail> Sensors: HDD: 34°C

09:35 <quail> k

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11:43 <MTughan> yoyo[RKN]: Not sure, but I think if the yoyo@home cruncher is suspended just once, even if it's left in memory, kills the WU on OS X.

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12:01 <kane_> hi.. does boinc run without the manager running?

12:01 <kane_> (I have it installed on ubuntu from package

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12:14 <xcamel> yup - it does...

12:14 <xcamel> just find the exec and run it...

12:16 <kane_> but do I need to add it into rc.local?

12:16 <xcamel> I guess you could if you wanted it to auto-run

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12:23 <kane_> xcamel, so it's the boinc_client, right?

12:28 * CoderForLife pops in for a sec

12:28 <CoderForLife> hi and bye - lots to do on this HoneyDew weekend

12:29 * CoderForLife pops back out

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14:13 <xcamel> re-hi

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14:32 <MTughan> 'lo e, xcamel

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14:33 <MTughan> 'lo Doug

14:33 <MTughan> Doug, right?

14:33 <wdsmia> *lo MTughan

14:35 <efc> yo

14:39 <wdsmia> *lo e

14:47 <BiteAbleKat> yumee cawfee

14:48 <MTughan> >_>

14:49 <BiteAbleKat> lol

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14:54 <BiteAbleKat> hi lupine

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15:03 <MTughan> 'lo Starfury^

15:03 <Starfury^> lo

15:17 <MTughan> I'm going to become suicidal for now... Starting up iMovie while a VM is running...

15:21 <BiteAbleKat> =0

15:25 <BiteAbleKat> lol :-

15:25 <Romulus> <> (at

15:29 <MTughan> That kid needs psychiatric help...

15:31 <BiteAbleKat> 4 real

15:32 <MTughan> Man, that keyboard can take a lot. Besides it being pounded like mad, I think only keys came off.

15:32 <BiteAbleKat> lol

15:32 <Romulus> haha i am doing watter on my e-mail ;)

15:32 <MTughan> It was probably a Logitech keyboard. ;)

15:32 <BiteAbleKat> hehe

15:35 <BiteAbleKat> we need a webspace so posted vids can compete for insanity

15:36 <MTughan> lol

15:36 <BiteAbleKat> like the gay guy defending britney against boy goes beserk

15:36 <MTughan> Ouch.

15:36 <MTughan> Please don't make me a judge. ;)

15:36 <BiteAbleKat> lol

15:36 <MTughan> I can only take so much insanity in a day.

15:37 <BiteAbleKat> it makes me feel not as insane

15:37 <BiteAbleKat> grounds me

15:37 <MTughan> It just makes me feel... I don't know. Just really strange.

15:37 <BiteAbleKat> its like not that insane

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15:38 <MTughan> I'm GLAD I'm not that insane.

15:38 <BiteAbleKat> it would make me feel strange if it wasnt posted by the people doing it

15:38 <BiteAbleKat> its like bad comedy or drama, you put it out there and you have to take what comes

15:38 <MTughan> Ever watch SNL?

15:39 <BiteAbleKat> on the otherhand i feel really bad for the thousands of people reaching out in THAT way

15:39 <BiteAbleKat> i love SNL

15:39 <BiteAbleKat> i also love MAD TV

15:40 <efc> the ambiguous duo cartoon last night was great

15:40 <MTughan> I haven't actually seen that one yet...

15:40 <MTughan> In about an hour or two, I'll have an XviD AVI of last's night show.

15:41 <MTughan> Transcoding...

15:42 <MTughan> We have a MythTV box connected to our TV, and I can pull the video off. It's in MPEG, but it doesn't seem to be a standard MPEG for some reason. Maybe MP2... Anyway, ffmpeg can transcode it to just about anything I want.

15:42 <MTughan> Oh yeah, it is MP2. That's why QT won't play it.

15:43 <efc> wiring the house to pipe video around is on that long list of things to do if i get a place...

15:44 <MTughan> Oops... Started the encoding on MP4...

15:44 <efc> my parents house has ethernet running to 3 floors, with a good ol 10 mbit hub hehe

15:45 <MTughan> 10Mb... Nice.

15:45 <MTughan> Even 802.11g beats the sh*t out of that.

15:45 <efc> considering it mostly just shares a 56k modem, its more than enough

15:45 <MTughan> Oh...

15:45 <MTughan> Ethernet, or coax?

15:46 <efc> twisted pair

15:46 <MTughan> So they could upgrade to 100Mb quite easily.

15:46 <efc> i do have a load of coax around here somewhere but never used it here thankfully

15:46 <MTughan> Hehe...

15:47 <MTughan> I give a hearty thanks to the person who came up with twisted pair and got us out of the coax age. :P

15:47 <efc> I got that hub very used around 1998

15:47 <efc> i only used coax at my first dorm, student built network, due to the way the rooms were layed out it used much less cable to have them on a line. very unreliable though.

15:47 <MTughan> Hmm... It's probably not Cat5e cable, but your parent's house may support 1Gb networking... :P

15:48 <MTughan> Not that they'd probably ever need that much data transfer, but you never know... ;)

15:48 <efc> some of it is, but it will probably never matter

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15:48 <MTughan> Yeah.

15:49 <efc> moving around CD or backing up a drive is the only thing that makes me wish for more

15:49 <MTughan> Video transfers for me makes me wish I had an Ethernet connection rather than 802.11g.

15:50 <efc> the hub actually has an RS232 interface. I got in it one time, it basically lets you switch ports on and off.

15:50 <MTughan> My laptop can support 1Gb, and I have a gigabit switch, but I don't know about the MythBox, as we call it.

15:51 <MTughan> Anyone remember what the top speed for USB3 is?

15:51 * efc didn't know there was a USB 3

15:51 <MTughan> There we go. When it comes out, 4.8Gbps.

15:52 <Romulus> machines monitor so should be in the basement

15:52 <MTughan>

15:52 <Romulus> Title: Universal Serial Bus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at

15:52 <BiteAbleKat> all i know is i have boxes and wires

15:52 <BiteAbleKat> they work or dont work

15:52 <BiteAbleKat> lol

15:52 <MTughan> So true for ribbon cables...

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15:53 <efc> I used to want to build super awesome computers to do something or other.. well now I can, and I have nothing for them to do

15:54 <MTughan> BOINC!

15:54 <BiteAbleKat> and mine always work, the only time they havent is when ive done something wrong

15:54 <MTughan> :D

15:54 <MTughan> You mean something like a kernel panic?

15:54 * MTughan shudders at that word...

15:54 <efc> boinc is a good way to soak up wasted cycles, but I don't think it does anything worth dedicating to

15:54 <MTughan> Anyway, about USB3.

15:54 <Romulus> Title: USB 3.0 brings optical connection in 2008 | Tech news blog - CNET (at

15:55 <efc> Now if I ever need a load generator for all my generator thingies..

15:57 <MTughan> Wow... One comment on that story predicts that Cat5 will become outdated to USB3, like serial and parallel.

15:58 <MTughan> That all networks will eventually move to USB3 as copper becomes obsolete. I agree copper will become obsolete, but I don't think USB3 is going to kill it.

15:58 <efc> whats the distance on USB3 ?

16:00 <BiteAbleKat> i use cat5 i think

16:00 * efc thinks he could replace the heat strips in the heat pump with dual quad cores quite effectively

16:00 <BiteAbleKat> if it aint broke dont fix it

16:00 <efc> yeah i like it, its cheap, simple, reliable, secure

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16:01 <MTughan_> Damned wireless dropped out on me...

16:01 <MTughan_> What was last seen?

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16:02 <BiteAbleKat> talking of copper becoming obsolete

16:02 <MTughan> The second one I sent?

16:02 <BiteAbleKat> [12:59] <MTughan> That all networks will eventually move to USB3 as copper becomes obsolete. I agree copper will become obsolete, but I don't think USB3 is going to kill it.

16:02 <MTughan> Okay, that's the last I said. Anything else after that?

16:02 <BiteAbleKat> no

16:02 <MTughan> Okay...

16:03 <Romulus> hopes that was the big thing on a ticket?

16:03 <MTughan> Actually, I guess I could've used the logs... Hehe...

16:03 * BiteAbleKat eyes romulus warily

16:03 <MTughan> Ah. efc: I don't know how long USB3 can go for.

16:04 <BiteAbleKat> im downloading pink floyd videos

16:06 * BiteAbleKat plays:- The Vapors - Turning Japanese.mpg

16:06 * MTughan is listening to Bad by U2 from Rattle and Hum

16:07 <MTughan> xcamel: How often are the logs updated?

16:11 <MTughan> Holy crap... Encode is only 13% done...

16:11 <MTughan> 25m for 13%... *grabs a calculator*

16:12 <MTughan> Well, Dashboard.

16:12 <MTughan> Wait, ROmmie can do it...

16:12 <MTughan> &math calc 25 / .13

16:12 <Romulus> MTughan: 192.307692308

16:12 <MTughan> &math calc (25 / .13) / 60

16:12 <Romulus> MTughan: 3.20512820513

16:13 <MTughan> :o

16:13 <c0dewarrior> &math calc (0+0/1)*0

16:13 <Romulus> c0dewarrior: 0

16:13 <c0dewarrior> ahhhhhh

16:13 <MTughan> 'lo c0dewarrior

16:14 <MTughan> &math calc 0/0

16:14 <Romulus> MTughan: Error: float division

16:14 <MTughan> Aww... I wanted to see him blow up. :P

16:14 <c0dewarrior> hehehe

16:14 <c0dewarrior> howdy MTughan

16:17 <c0dewarrior> how goes?

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16:31 <MTughan> Oh, doing pretty good. Trying to update Feisty to Gutsy in Ubuntu. Sorry for the delay, I was getting a snack.

16:39 <xcamel> re-hi

16:41 <MTughan> 'lo Jay

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16:47 <MTughan> Holy cow... Just looking up BSODs, and some people have figured out the fonts used in bluescreens...

16:57 <xcamel> lol

16:58 <MTughan> End of section.

16:58 <Romulus> Title: Blue Screen of Death - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at

16:58 <MTughan> I say those people have no life.

16:58 <MTughan> Or they work for Microsoft, which still means they have no life.

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17:07 <xcamel> nope - no life whatsoever.

17:07 <xcamel> &weather 12074

17:07 <Romulus> xcamel: Temperature: 67.1F / 19.5C | Humidity: 55% | Pressure: 30.07in / 1018.2hPa | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: North | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Tonight - Clear. Lows in the upper 40s. South winds around 5 mph.; Monday - Patchy fog in the morning. Sunny. Highs in the mid 70s. South winds 5 to 10 mph.; Monday Night - Partly cloudy. Lows in the lower 50s. South winds 5 to 10 mph.;

17:08 <MTughan> Whoa...

17:08 <Romulus> <> (at

17:08 <MTughan> GIF animation.

17:09 <xcamel> PS: weather works with ICAO codes also (nearby airports)

17:09 <MTughan> ICAO?

17:09 <xcamel> &weather CYYZ

17:09 <Romulus> xcamel: Temperature: 77°F / 25°C | Humidity: 29% | Pressure: 29.96in / 1014hPa | Conditions: Partly Cloudy | Wind Direction: SSW | Wind Speed: 17mph / 28km/h | Updated: 5:00 PM EDT; Tonight - Clear. Wind southwest 20 km/h (12 mph) gusting to 40 km/h (25 mph) becoming light this evening. Low 12C(54F).; Monday - Sunny. Wind becoming southwest 20 km/h (12 mph) late in the morning. High 23C(73F). UV index 4 or (1 more message)

17:09 <MTughan> Ah.

17:09 <xcamel> that would be toronto

17:09 <Romulus> ****a is full and ad dvd encode working too much

17:09 <MTughan> I guess you knew that was Pearson...

17:09 <MTughan> Yeah.

17:09 <xcamel> or...

17:10 <xcamel> &weather FAJS

17:10 <Romulus> xcamel: Temperature: 64°F / 18°C | Humidity: 45% | Pressure: 30.27in / 1025hPa | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: NNW | Wind Speed: 8mph / 13km/h | Updated: 11:00 PM SAST; Scattered Clouds. High:77 F. / 25 C.; Clear. Low:57 F. / 14 C.; Clear. High:77 F. / 25 C.; Overcast. Low:57 F. / 14 C.; Scattered Clouds. High:78 F. / 26 C.; Scattered Clouds. Low:59 F. / 15 C.;

17:10 <MTughan> CYYZ is Toronto Pearson Internation Airport.

17:10 <MTughan> International*

17:10 <xcamel> which is JAN SMUTS INTERNATIONAL, South Africa

17:11 <MTughan> Um... Jan Smuts hasn't been used since 1994...

17:11 <MTughan>

17:11 <Romulus> Title: OR Tambo International Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at

17:12 <xcamel> oh well... same place.

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17:14 <MTughan> 'lo c0dewarrior_

17:14 <xcamel> He's baaaaak...

17:15 <c0dewarrior_> ;p

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17:17 <c0dewarrior> howdy MTughan

17:18 <c0dewarrior> isp's here just love resetting links to enforce their draconian accounting..

17:18 <c0dewarrior> or rather "telco's"

17:18 <MTughan> At least they aren't blocking BitTorrent.

17:18 <c0dewarrior> lol! you think?!

17:19 <c0dewarrior> Here everything and anything other than http traffic is shaped to death

17:19 <MTughan> Oh...

17:19 <c0dewarrior> and yes, bittorrent (and even VPN's) are blocked on some ISP's

17:19 <MTughan> Apparently, it's because it takes too much bandwidth. BS, I say.

17:19 <c0dewarrior> It's bullshit deluxe

17:20 <MTughan> Why else would someone have gotten a broadband connection?

17:20 <MTughan> Hey, where's PovAddict?

17:20 <PovAddict> just back minutes ago, skimming irclogs

17:20 <MTughan> Ah.

17:20 <c0dewarrior> It's the same story all over... the recording and movie companies wanting to make more $$$$$$$$$$$

17:20 <MTughan> I'm thinking Linux here.

17:21 <Romulus> still problems with 5.10.12 and ended up back then you need to go to general multimedia production."

17:21 <c0dewarrior> MTughan: ??!

17:23 <MTughan> What? What's wrong with Linux?

17:23 <c0dewarrior> you lost me... what's the subject?

17:23 <MTughan> Gah... That encoding is STILL going on...

17:24 <c0dewarrior> from torrent to linux... hmmm

17:24 <MTughan> We were saying that BitTorrent was being blocked. You had said that recording and movie companies want more money, and I thought you meant over BitTorrent. I said I was thinking BitTorrent for downloading Linux.

17:25 <c0dewarrior> ahh, no I meant that the reason bittorrent is being blocked all over the place...

17:25 <c0dewarrior> is that the recording and movie companies are arguing that it's only used to distribute illegal content

17:25 <MTughan> Well, I'm sure the MPAA and RIAA have something to do with it.

17:25 <c0dewarrior> aka... their content.. aka they're losing money

17:25 <c0dewarrior> here the story's different...

17:25 <c0dewarrior> they're just trying to milk their customers to death

17:26 <xcamel> isp's are all the same...

17:26 <MTughan> Congress was debating whether to introduce net neutrality. I don't know what became of that.

17:26 <c0dewarrior> MTughan: They can go *@&(*@#& themselves....

17:26 <MTughan> xcamel: Not all are the same. Mine doesn't block BitTorrent.

17:26 <xcamel> RIAA is now trying to sue usenet

17:26 <c0dewarrior> MTughan: The internet has always been neutral.... and the US of A doesn't own the net

17:26 <MTughan> c0dewarrior: Agreed heartily.

17:26 <c0dewarrior> thank heavens..

17:26 <xcamel> laa the same == basically evil

17:27 <c0dewarrior> all spawn of the same evil I say

17:27 <MTughan> RIAA is just trying to sue, but they're probably not going to succeed.

17:27 <xcamel> most likely not

17:27 <MTughan> For our sake that the RIAA's ego isn't inflated.

17:27 <c0dewarrior> Would love to see them billionaires bank accounts being reset to 0, just to equal the playing feeld :-p

17:27 <c0dewarrior> *field

17:27 <MTughan> Something like that...

17:30 <c0dewarrior> MTughan: btw.. on their logic that "it takes too much bandwidth"

17:30 <PovAddict> if ISPs seed popular torrents themselves, they will SAVE bandwidth a lot

17:31 <c0dewarrior> bittorrent's very function is to distribute load...

17:31 <c0dewarrior> exactly

17:31 <PovAddict> ISPs pay for the bandwidth they use from outside

17:31 <c0dewarrior> they'd save bandwidth, money... and be able to support more customers!

17:31 <MTughan> Oh, what I was meaning by net neutrality, is that ISPs would be forced to not discriminate traffic.

17:31 <c0dewarrior> MTughan: that's what net neutrality is...

17:32 <MTughan> Yeah. But while the US may not own the net, there are a lot of ISPs in the US who the US government could force.

17:33 <c0dewarrior> MTughan: The patriot and homeland security acts kinda give them unlimited power (can force an ISP to do anything), granted they print out court orders and such..

17:33 <c0dewarrior>

17:33 <Romulus> Title: Network neutrality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at

17:34 <MTughan> Well, why don't the politicians act then?

17:34 <c0dewarrior> on what?

17:34 <c0dewarrior> They're either the same spawn of evil, or totally unaware, or oblivious to the consequences...

17:34 <MTughan> Forcing the ISPs to be neutral.

17:35 <c0dewarrior> there be (and has always been) the two forces... not the first time neutrality is challenged

17:35 <MTughan> I don't think they're unaware, and while they may be part of the same evil, I think they're more oblivious to the consequences.

17:35 <c0dewarrior> I'd agree

17:35 <MTughan> Look at the average age of a politician. What, 50+?

17:35 <c0dewarrior> something like that yeah

17:36 <MTughan> Lets tell them to use BitTorrent to download a few Linux distros from a Comcast connection, then have them make a choice.

17:37 <c0dewarrior> MTughan: btw. Here an average uncapped 512kbit/s dsl link costs around 450 USD...

17:37 <MTughan> Because Comcast customers can download over BitTorrent, they just can't upload.

17:37 <MTughan> 450USD a month?

17:37 <c0dewarrior> correct

17:37 <MTughan> Holy sh*t...

17:38 <c0dewarrior> the average point to point link at 512kbit/s costs 450-800 USD/month

17:38 <MTughan> We've got a 3Mbps line that costs us about $30 CDN a month.

17:38 <MTughan> At least I think it's 3Mbps...

17:38 <c0dewarrior> yeah.... our politicians happen to own 60% in the de-facto monopoly (that was supposed to have been killed 5 years ago)

17:39 <c0dewarrior> every place has it's own troubles... so while you guys are fighting neutrality, we're fighting state-supported monopoly...

17:39 <MTughan> Okay, the latest my ISP has is a 5Mbps line for $30 CDN a month.

17:40 <MTughan> Where are you?

17:40 <c0dewarrior> MTughan: we only have up to 1mbit/s adsl here... (trial up to 4mbit/s)

17:40 <c0dewarrior> in the sunny south africa

17:40 <MTughan> Ah, that's why.

17:40 <c0dewarrior> no.. that's not why

17:40 <MTughan> North America has more.

17:40 <MTughan> No, I mean the price.

17:41 <c0dewarrior> countries poorer and with a higher unemployment ratio etc... has prices competing with what you guys have...

17:41 <MTughan> Competing? Hardly...

17:41 <c0dewarrior> it's 100% because of bad governance, the state profiting from the status quo, and corrupt politicians

17:41 <MTughan> Unless I'm thinking different costs.

17:41 <c0dewarrior> 0 competition, only 1 telco

17:41 <c0dewarrior> they own everything...

17:42 <MTughan> Oh...

17:42 <c0dewarrior> the problem is not the telco though

17:42 <MTughan> Okay, now I see how that could change things...

17:42 <c0dewarrior> indeed..

17:43 <MTughan> Yeah, changes things significantly.

17:43 <MTughan> Just imagine if Microsoft was able to stamp out competition...

17:43 <c0dewarrior> grief....

17:44 <MTughan> It'd be the Apocalypse.

17:44 * c0dewarrior shivers

17:44 <c0dewarrior> hehehe

17:44 <c0dewarrior> btw...

17:44 <MTughan> Not really Apple I'm thinking of... More Unix and Linux.

17:44 <c0dewarrior> we'll have a second telco here soon....

17:44 <c0dewarrior> ironically

17:44 <c0dewarrior> 100% owned by government (indirectly)

17:44 <MTughan> And the first?

17:45 <c0dewarrior> they'll continue ticking along as they do

17:45 <c0dewarrior> but it's pathetic... having two telco's competing with each other and the government having a majority stake in both

17:45 <MTughan> Well, hopefully you'll get better prices. 450USD a month is just outrageous.

17:45 <c0dewarrior> it won't drop much...

17:45 <c0dewarrior> will stay that way for a few years at least

17:46 <freakazoid0223> c0dewarrior, you listen to shortwave much :)

17:46 <MTughan> This is where you want to scream out in frustration...

17:46 <c0dewarrior> freakazoid0223: yah, at times

17:46 <MTughan> 'lo freakazoid0223

17:46 <c0dewarrior> MTughan: costs 15USD here for line rental only of a POTS/PSTN line...

17:47 <MTughan> So what kind of speed can you get with that? Is it dial-up?

17:49 <c0dewarrior> 56k...

17:49 <c0dewarrior> and btw...

17:49 <c0dewarrior> they charge you a call-charge on all calls (including to an ISP)

17:49 <c0dewarrior> so you pay per minute online if you have a dialup

17:49 <MTughan> Ouch... And you still get 56k speeds for that.

17:50 <c0dewarrior> ayup...

17:50 <freakazoid0223> and people used to complain about AOL

17:51 <MTughan> I think AOL is still around...

17:51 <freakazoid0223> whats left of it yeah

17:51 <c0dewarrior> for the average 512kbit/s line with 3GB cap, shaped to death.... costs 89 USD

17:51 <MTughan> So just HTTP again?

17:51 <c0dewarrior> pretty much

17:52 <MTughan> So how'd you get XChat through?

17:52 <PovAddict> 3GB cap?!

17:52 <c0dewarrior> yes, 3GB

17:52 <c0dewarrior> MTughan: I pay for what I get...

17:52 <PovAddict> I downloaded 9GB on the past 19 days via BitTorrent

17:52 <PovAddict> and I have 600kbps

17:52 <MTughan> Ah... So we really have to appreciate you here.

17:52 <PovAddict> ANY monthly limit is f***ing stupid

17:52 <MTughan> PovAddict: Tell that to the South African government.

17:52 <c0dewarrior> MTughan: hehehe, not really... just on the same planet

17:53 <PovAddict> geez

17:53 <c0dewarrior> MTughan: oh we have.... they even consider the internet a national critical resource

17:53 <c0dewarrior> MTughan: but they just won't let go of their little cashcow ;-)

17:53 <freakazoid0223> no satelite service available?

17:53 <MTughan> Sounds like the Ontario government and taxes...

17:53 <PovAddict> and uploaded 15GB on my tiny 128kbps up pipe

17:53 <PovAddict> on the same 19-day period

17:54 <freakazoid0223> and I dont mean worldspace either ;)

17:54 <MTughan> Since Gutsy came out three days ago, I've uploaded 2.62GB on BitTorrent.

17:54 <c0dewarrior> freakazoid0223: sure, that's the only way to get uncapped prices down... but there's only so much satellite bandwidth, and the latency is unbearable for most interactive services

17:54 <c0dewarrior> the average politician here can earn 150k USD easily

17:54 <PovAddict> satellite has high throughput (good) and high latency (bad)

17:55 <c0dewarrior> exactly

17:55 <MTughan> 150K a year... Holy sh*t...

17:55 <freakazoid0223> unreal tournament fan eh?

17:55 <c0dewarrior> heh

17:55 <PovAddict> TCP (or is it IP?) has some way to select ToS to let the routers know if you want throughput, reliability, low latency, or dunno-dunt-care

17:55 <PovAddict> I think few routers actually care about that field

17:56 <c0dewarrior> PovAddict: almost all core SA routers say "f##$k the TOS bits)

17:56 <PovAddict> c0dewarrior: as I understand it, almost all worldwide routers say f(/"&#k the TOS bits

17:56 <c0dewarrior> most do yes, at their own loss..

17:56 <PovAddict> I hope IPv6 gives some improvements...

17:57 <MTughan> Aw sh*t... VM doesn't seem to be sending mouse movements to Gutsy...

17:57 <MTughan> How long has IPv6 been around now?

17:57 <PovAddict> MTughan:  define "been around"

17:57 <MTughan> Available for consumer use.

17:57 <freakazoid0223> cant wait to see what kind of prices we will get in the US if network neutrality is abolished :(

17:57 <PovAddict> I'd say "still hasn't"

17:57 <MTughan> Oh...

17:58 <c0dewarrior> freakazoid0223: the us economy would probably collapse...

17:58 <PovAddict> does your computer, your router, your modem, your gateway, and your ISP support IPv6?

17:58 <MTughan> Like it isn't already?

17:58 <MTughan> Computer does, not sure about all others.

17:58 <freakazoid0223> its gonna collapse anyway, trust me

17:58 <PovAddict> exactly...

17:58 <MTughan> I think the router does, and that's the gateway too.

17:58 <PovAddict> maybe your ISP doesn't

17:59 <PovAddict> but you know, it's one of those catch-22 things

17:59 <MTughan> As for the modem and the ISP, the ISP might, but the modem sure doesn't. It's 3-4 years old at this point.

17:59 <PovAddict> ISPs dont add support because few services use it anyway, so most users won't notice lack of it

17:59 <c0dewarrior> MTughan: almost all modems on the market don't do ipv6

17:59 <c0dewarrior> MTughan: excluding expensive cisco kit..

17:59 <PovAddict> services (like websites) don't support it because ISPs don't anyway, so no users would access via IPv6

18:00 <c0dewarrior> we're starting to do pure ipv6 here... all the way to the consumer

18:00 <MTughan> But if sites use IPv6 and users do too, then ISP will...

18:01 <MTughan> Makes you wonder how IPv4 came into use now.

18:01 <PovAddict> if sites use IPv6 only, people with ISPs that don't support it won't be able to get in

18:01 <MTughan> Can't a site support both?

18:01 <PovAddict> if sites use IPv6 and allow IPv4 access too, ISPs will say "why bother if users can access already?"

18:02 <PovAddict> you may want to bypass your gateway:

18:02 <Romulus> Title: The Great IPv6 Experiment (at

18:03 <MTughan> Hehe...

18:03 <c0dewarrior> PovAddict: isp's are starting to care, they're running out of allocatable addresses...

18:03 <c0dewarrior> PovAddict: it's their own death-warrant if they don't

18:03 <PovAddict> indeed

18:03 <MTughan> Yeah, that would change their minds fairly quickly...

18:03 <MTughan> Cause then the consumer will come to them with complaints.

18:05 <c0dewarrior> godspeed to all the neutrality fights... it's a fight you don't want to lose..

18:05 <MTughan> Amen to that...

18:06 <PovAddict> wording on looks like the website owners think USA is the only country on the world

18:06 <c0dewarrior> PovAddict: ehrm.... so does most americans...

18:06 <PovAddict> I know

18:07 *** Lupine1647_ has joined #boinc

18:08 <c0dewarrior> PovAddict: I've known dutch who think africans have lions and other critters walking around in the streets, and that folk live in huts all over...

18:08 <MTughan> Don't you? :P

18:09 * MTughan is kidding

18:09 <c0dewarrior> heheheheh! No..

18:09 <c0dewarrior> In other parts of africa yes...

18:10 <freakazoid0223> I liked the video of that idiot who thought it would be a good idea to get out of his jeep and approach a couple of them, meanwhile a couple more circled around back of him

18:10 <freakazoid0223> guess what happened

18:10 <PovAddict> he got his ass eaten

18:10 <c0dewarrior> grin, he helped save a few lion from going hungry!

18:10 <MTughan> Let me guess. He's dead.

18:10 <freakazoid0223> exactly

18:11 <freakazoid0223> next thing you saw where his limbs being carried off in different directions

18:11 <MTughan> Gah... 82% done on the encoding...

18:11 <MTughan> O_O

18:12 <c0dewarrior> freakazoid0223: A lion is only slightly more deadly than the tv portrays ;-)

18:12 <c0dewarrior> -26.137017°, 28.037921°

18:12 <c0dewarrior> As you can see... there are no lions in this stretch of city...

18:13 <freakazoid0223> Its like the man said in the Bruce Willis movie "last man standing"..."Its the only cure I know for being stupid."

18:13 <c0dewarrior> hehehe, I like it

18:15 <MTughan> Polkarama!

18:15 * MTughan is listening to Polkarama! by Weird Al Yankovic from Straight Outta Lynwood

18:15 <c0dewarrior> 0_0

18:15 <freakazoid0223> "I won on ebay"

18:17 <PovAddict>

18:17 <MTughan> Oh, I saw that one... ^^

18:18 <freakazoid0223> what a friggin mess

18:19 <PovAddict> xD

18:19 <Romulus> <> (at

18:19 <freakazoid0223> lol

18:19 <PovAddict>

18:19 <Romulus> <> (at

18:19 <MTughan> I get a DNS error.

18:20 <MTughan> Oh, there we go.

18:20 <MTughan> Hehe...

18:20 <MTughan> Haha! Excersie, lol

18:20 <MTughan> Excersice*

18:20 <freakazoid0223> what a concept

18:20 <MTughan> Exercise*

18:20 <PovAddict>

18:20 <freakazoid0223> third times the charm

18:20 <Romulus> <> (at

18:21 <MTughan> Hehe...

18:21 <PovAddict> <- oh if only life let you do that more often...

18:21 <Romulus> <> (at

18:21 <MTughan> Hehe...

18:21 <PovAddict>

18:21 <MTughan> Looks like the mouse was hungry.

18:21 <Romulus> <> (at

18:22 <MTughan> I've seen that one. lol

18:22 <MTughan> BTW, it's 5cm.

18:22 <PovAddict>

18:22 <Romulus> <> (at

18:22 <MTughan> The question should say "Fine the value of x."

18:22 <MTughan> That's a lot of water...

18:23 <MTughan> Can you just give us an image listing?

18:30 <MTughan> O_O No wonder my system is slow... I have 2GB of RAM, and 1.8GB is currently being used...

18:31 <freakazoid0223> by what?

18:31 <PovAddict> crap

18:31 <MTughan> Along with 26GB of virtual memory.

18:31 <MTughan> Two VMs. :P

18:32 *** Lupine1647_ has quit IRC

18:36 <MTughan> There we go. I had an issue where I had to compare two instances of Gutsy. Solved now.

18:37 <MTughan> That's why I needed 2 VMs open.

18:39 <MTughan> Although in one of them, I think I'll need to reinstall. I tried wiping the disk, but I think the installer didn't actually repartition the disk. I've been having a few errors, and I seem to have Feisty icons in Gutsy.

18:39 <MTughan> Oh, SNL encode just finished.

18:39 <PovAddict> SNL?

18:39 <MTughan> Saturday Night Live. Never heard of them?

18:45 <MTughan> Have you ever heard of SNL?

18:45 <xcamel> not in AR, me thinks

18:46 <MTughan> Well, seems others not in the US have heard of it.

18:47 <efc> yeah watch it all the time

18:47 <MTughan> Ouch... I may have to edit out the commercials if I want to send it... XviD is 1.07GB right now...

19:01 <MTughan> Gah... Two more hours for iMovie to import it... I might not have it tonight.

19:01 <PovAddict> wtf

19:01 <xcamel> geez, e - you better get the heck out of georgia... no water left....

19:01 <PovAddict> iMovie is probably re-encoding it then... are you planning to burn a DVD?

19:01 *** kane_ has quit IRC

19:07 <xcamel> pov... you guys on the dev list keep using CC: and messing up my filters...

19:08 <PovAddict> xcamel: pressing Reply alone by default would make it reply to the poster, skipping the list, so I always use Reply to all

19:09 <xcamel> I just reply to the list -- it's cleaner.

19:10 <PovAddict> means I have to manually move around recipients each time I post...

19:10 <PovAddict> it would be easier if everybody sent Reply-To: <list email address here>, but particularly webmails have no way to do such a thing

19:12 <xcamel> Huge Dinosaur Skeleton Unearthed

19:12 <xcamel> The skeleton of what's believed to be a new dinosaur species - a 105-foot plant-eater that is among the largest dinosaurs ever found - has been uncovered in Argentina, scientists said Monday.

19:13 <PovAddict> yep

19:13 <c0dewarrior> they found my dog!

19:13 <xcamel> Futalognkosaurus dukei

19:13 <PovAddict> not only among the largest dinosaurs, also among the most complete skeletons found

19:13 <xcamel> 'Titanosaur'

19:14 <c0dewarrior> sounds like a female..

19:14 <xcamel> shoild be: 105Footalongaosaurus dukei

19:14 <c0dewarrior> lol

19:15 <xcamel> :-)

19:15 <PovAddict> damnbigosaurus

19:15 <xcamel> still no pictures yet..

19:16 <xcamel>

19:32 <MTughan> PovAddict: Yeah, it's probably reencoding it. Unless you know of another way to edit out commercials, we're going to have to let it.

19:32 <PovAddict> what did you use to encode the video to XviD?

19:33 <MTughan> ffmpeg.

19:33 <PovAddict> what what's the final goal, a DVD?

19:33 <MTughan> Nope, another XviD.

19:33 <MTughan> Except I don't know where the commercials are.

19:33 <PovAddict> what's the input file?

19:33 <MTughan> XviD.

19:33 <PovAddict> I thought you transcoded from <something> to XviD

19:33 <PovAddict> with ffmpeg

19:33 <MTughan> MP2.

19:34 *** mweltin has joined #boinc

19:34 <PovAddict> ffmpeg itself can transcode only a range

19:34 <Romulus> did I tell you the source code has been waiting for the OLPC on SBS news >>>

19:34 <MTughan> Except I don't know where the commercials are.

19:34 <PovAddict> that is, you can edit out the commercials with ffmpeg if you know the offset where they start/end and if you can afford transcoding mpeg2->xvid again

19:35 <PovAddict> by the way what file are you loading into iMovie?

19:35 <MTughan> I'm loading XviD.

19:35 <PovAddict> I think it would be faster to load the MPEG2 video into iMovie

19:35 <MTughan> And I don't know where the commercials are, for the third time. That means I don't know the offsets.

19:35 <MTughan> Well, probably can't hurt to cancel.

19:36 <MTughan> There you go. Can't open MP2.

19:36 <PovAddict> iMovie can't open the mpeg2? aww

19:36 <MTughan> Now I gotta start over again...

19:36 <PovAddict> if you remove commercials from iMovie using the xvid one, then transcode to xvid again, you'd be losing quality in all those conversions...

19:36 <MTughan> No, it can only open what QT can open it seems.

19:36 <PovAddict> QT can't open mpeg2?

19:37 <MTughan> Not without a paid plugin from Apple.

19:37 <MTughan> I've looked into it before.

19:37 <PovAddict> :-\

19:49 <mweltin> Hello, I found out what my problem is with the stats dir, and could use some ideas on how to fix it. When the db_dump runs it runs as mweltin (my user).  Myself and apache belong to the boinc group, however, when db_dump runs it recreats the stats dir with 771 perms with owner = mweltin and group = users.  Saddly I'm not much of a sys admin, and I'm not sure how to fix this other than a manually run chmod.  Do any of you have a suggestion?

19:50 <MTughan> Add apache to the users group. Don't know if that's the best fix, but it'd work.

19:50 <PovAddict> if you belong to boinc group, and apache does too, I don't see how db_dump could be using group=users...

19:50 <PovAddict> "you" = the account where all boinc-server-related stuff runs?

19:51 <mweltin> I'd rather not

19:51 <mweltin> users is my primary group

19:51 <MTughan> I didn't think so, but that was my first inkling.

19:51 <mweltin> Povaddict yes I'm the user running all the boinc stuff.

19:52 <mweltin> that was a mistake.

19:52 <PovAddict> ah, "mwetin"'s primary group is 'users'?

19:52 <mweltin> I should have made a boinc user, and I did infact but

19:52 <mweltin> the boinc user doesn't have a shell becaues I didn't want anyone to login as that user.

19:52 <MTughan> That's "mweltin".

19:52 <mweltin> and yse

19:53 <mweltin> mweltin's primary group is users

19:53 <xcamel> it's not hard to do it, depending on your distro...

19:53 <mweltin> and I'm mweltin

19:53 <PovAddict> you have to login under the boinc server admin account to start stuff

19:53 <MTughan> mweltin: PovAddict has mistyped it.

19:53 <PovAddict> so the shell is needed

19:53 <MTughan> had8

19:53 <MTughan> had*

19:53 <MTughan> I'll stay out of this... I'm just confusing it.

19:54 <xcamel> boinc should have it's own dir for everything anyway

19:54 <PovAddict> xcamel: he's doing boinc *server* stuff

19:54 <PovAddict> as in, setting up a project

19:54 <xcamel> uh-huh

19:54 <MTughan> Oh, reminds me... I still need to get an anonymous project up so I can take a look at the PHP...

19:54 <mweltin> yeah that would have been better

19:54 <mweltin> but I'm in a little too deep now to switch the user.

19:54 <xcamel> then symlinks to all the apache/php related stuff

19:55 <xcamel> much easier to keep track of the troubles if it isn't spread all over your box...

19:55 <mweltin> so I'm getting the impression that I'm kind of stuck doing this manually, or at least making a cron job out of it.

19:56 <mweltin> my project dir is in ~mweltin

19:56 <PovAddict> mweltin: you have to either switch mweltin's primary group to 'boinc', and boinc server files' group to 'boinc'; or change boinc server files to be owned boinc:boinc

19:56 <mweltin> everything is contained nicely.

19:56 <xcamel> you're 90% there then...

19:57 <PovAddict> mweltin: my guess is that you could have further problems apart from stats later, with groups and permissions set the way they are

19:58 <mweltin> I'll try switching my primary group now and give it a try.

19:59 <PovAddict> that would make db_dump use the right group, and since apache is on that group too, group-readable would be enough

20:03 <mweltin> CRAP!

20:03 <mweltin> my file system is full

20:03 <PovAddict> :o

20:03 <mweltin> running boinc on a laptop with a 25GB hard drive is not a good idea.

20:05 <mweltin> are there any clean up commands for the boinc server? what does db_purge, will that delete all workunits and resluts where a workunit has a canonical result?

20:05 <xcamel> ouchies...

20:05 <mweltin> mmmmmmmmmm

20:05 <PovAddict> db_purge deletes old workunits to lower the DB size

20:06 *** Saenger_2 has joined #boinc

20:06 <PovAddict> if you want to "start over", you should ./bin/stop and (manually) empty some tables - let me check which

20:07 <PovAddict> or delete directory and install server again (from the correct user this time ;) )

20:07 <mweltin> ok

20:07 <mweltin> hahahaha

20:07 <mweltin> one step at a time.

20:07 <mweltin> the alpha testers have been real good to me, so I'm going to try to make life easy on them if I can.

20:08 <mweltin> reinstalling the entire project is a little harsh at this point.

20:08 <PovAddict> oh yeah, you have users already...

20:08 <mweltin> I need a new box.

20:08 <mweltin> I like 260+ users.

20:08 <PovAddict> yeah you'd rather not lose the user table with credits and stuff :)

20:08 <mweltin> yeah

20:10 <mweltin> while you are here, will the /dev/null for archive dir send archives of the stats to the bit bucket?

20:10 <PovAddict> I guess it will try to save to /dev/null/stats_something

20:10 <PovAddict> since null isn't a directory, it will fail

20:10 <mweltin> perfect

20:11 <PovAddict> or, try to "cp something /dev/null" (thinking it's a directory), which will fail (if running as root, will replace your null device with a directory xD)

20:14 <mweltin> well one problem down, switching to boinc as my primary group and running db_dump gave the correct permission on the stats dir.

20:15 <mweltin> setting archive_dir to /dev/null didn't help

20:16 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o xcamel

20:16 *** xcamel changes topic to "BOINC | stats & logs: Versions: all dev: 5.10.25 windows, Windows x64, 5.10.25 osx/darwin, 5.10.21 *nix/32/64 | Romulus (&) is the channel bot"

20:16 *** xcamel sets mode: -o xcamel

20:17 <xcamel> latest win update checked in..

20:17 <Romulus> man..sun's up and slowing my old version of Ubuntu - dont remember what -p was

20:18 <PovAddict> at last they marked 5.10 as "recommended" for linux...

20:18 <mweltin> just in time for 6 to come out

20:18 <xcamel> pov -- what ever happend to clicking the systray icon to minimize boincmgr in windows?

20:18 <PovAddict> clicking systray ever made it *minimize*? I never noticed that

20:19 <xcamel> you still have to hit "X" which is aggravating...

20:20 <xcamel> might be why most never minimize boincmgr to the tray

20:20 <xcamel> they leave it sit on the taskbar

20:20 <PovAddict> have you actually seen / heard of people do that?

20:21 <xcamel> yum - tons of them.

20:21 <xcamel> er "yup" even

20:21 *** efc has quit IRC

20:21 <PovAddict> I think we need usability tests...

20:22 <xcamel> they're afraid to hit the "X" thinking it will terminate the task...

20:22 <PovAddict> like the ones gnome and gimp (and MANY others) have done

20:22 <xcamel> hell... even I found it only by mistake...

20:22 <PovAddict> programs on Windows are usually inconsistent about that

20:22 <PovAddict> on programs that go to tray that is

20:22 <xcamel> it does work in linux (kde) because the systray works differently

20:23 *** Saenger has quit IRC

20:23 <xcamel> just something to mention to the devs...

20:23 <PovAddict> sometimes X closes and minimize goes to tray, sometimes minimize goes to taskbar and X goes to tray, sometimes there is a 4th button to go to tray, and even some programs have preferences for that

20:23 <xcamel> I know..

20:24 <mweltin> I just realized some thing, I was not running db_dump as if it were a task.  I was just running it directly from the command line from $PROJECT/tmp_$HOST.  By running db_dump this way, will it still use the config.xml file to look for the archive_dir?

20:25 <PovAddict> all daemons look for ../config.xml, as far as I know

20:25 <mweltin> ok

20:26 <PovAddict> and tasks that are supposed to be run manually (like create_work, start, dir_hier_path, NOT db_dump...) look for ./config.xml

20:26 <PovAddict> xcamel: more inconsistency: some programs restore from the tray icon on single click, most on double click... clearly Microsoft should have given proper guidelines about it

20:28 <mweltin> well I upped the debug reporting and it is parsing the config.xml file, but its not picking up the archive_dir hahaha RTFM!!!!!

20:29 <mweltin> archive_dir goes in the db_dump_spec.xml not config.xml

20:29 * mweltin hits head with hammer because it feels good when I stop.

20:32 <mweltin> /dev/null still doesnt work mv: accessing `/dev/null/stats_2007_10_21_13_27_29': Not a directory

20:32 <PovAddict> because it's not supposed to

20:32 <quail> morning all

20:33 <mweltin> I'm guessing boinc won't let you not archive stats then.

20:34 <mweltin> what if I make the archive_dir and final_output_dir the same dir?  Will that give me the desried effect?

20:35 <mweltin> nope

20:36 <mweltin> well I guess its just going to ge another cronjob then. Thanks for your help.

20:36 <PovAddict> no problem

20:37 <PovAddict> I'll email you the tech support bill next week

20:37 <PovAddict> ...or were you expecting free help?

20:37 <PovAddict> :P

20:37 <mweltin> I'll email you a check.

20:39 <PovAddict> &wrong

20:39 <Romulus> PovAddict: Error: You need to have PySQLite installed to use this plugin.  Download it at <>

20:49 <xcamel> Hiya, Q

20:52 *** mweltin has quit IRC

20:54 *** sethy has joined #boinc

20:55 <sethy> PovAddict

20:55 <PovAddict> !

20:55 <sethy> i may need to ask for a favour

20:55 <sethy> incase i forget

20:56 <sethy> every hour at half past the o'clock my time i need to do a speedtest

20:57 <xcamel> &wrong

20:57 <Romulus> xcamel: Error: You need to have PySQLite installed to use this plugin.  Download it at <>

20:57 <sethy> :(

20:57 <xcamel> nuts.. thought I had that fixed...

20:57 <xcamel> oh well...

20:57 * xcamel is away: Gone away for now.

20:57 *** xcamel is now known as xcamel_away

21:17 *** sethy has quit IRC

22:02 *** zombie67 has joined #boinc

22:27 <zombie67> I have a machine that was off for quite some time.  Now it won't download work, because it thinks it will not be able to return it in time, because it is not turned on enough.  How do I reset that "time on" counter?

22:28 <Romulus> misbehaving ftp bot - over and scream in (mock) pain when you built wxwidgets

22:28 <MTughan> I don't think BOINC checks that...

22:28 <PovAddict> editing client_state.xml

22:28 * MTughan remembers about the new version

22:29 <zombie67> which line?

22:29 <MTughan> xcamel: 5.10.25? Not according to the front download page.

22:29 <PovAddict> MTughan: there is "percentage of time BOINC runs" (which if BOINC is set to start on boot, also matches quite accurately "percentage of time computer is on"), then "of that, percentage of time BOINC actually runs", and "percentage of time the computer has a network connection"

22:29 <zombie67> this is 5.4.

22:30 <zombie67> ah

22:30 <zombie67> found it

22:30 *** mweltin has joined #boinc

22:30 <PovAddict> it's part of <time_stats>

22:30 <zombie67> on_frac, right?

22:30 <MTughan> Oh, I thought it didn't check that... May be because my comp is on most of the time.

22:30 <PovAddict> whichever is insanely low

22:31 <mweltin> What is the purpose of the run_state_$HOST.xml ?

22:31 <PovAddict> MTughan: my stats: <on_frac>0.915452, <active_frac>0.987945, <connected_frac>-1 (this is broken)

22:31 <MTughan> One sec...

22:31 <PovAddict> mweltin: have you looked at its contents?

22:31 <mweltin> my project woldn't start and after a while I noticed it was empty.

22:31 <PovAddict> MTughan: there is also cpu_efficiency, it means CPU time / total time

22:31 <mweltin> its contents seem to be all the tasks of the config.xml file.

22:31 <MTughan> I've got to find that file first.

22:31 <PovAddict> mweltin: I think you should fix all your groups

22:32 <PovAddict> on all files owned by you

22:32 <PovAddict> btw for some reason some messages from you are coming in as private messages

22:32 <mweltin> ran chmgrp -R on my home dir.

22:33 <mweltin> sometimes I use the /msg command so as not to litter the rest of teh channel

22:33 <PovAddict> run_state keeps track for example of which periodic tasks have already run

22:33 <mweltin> thank you

22:34 <PovAddict> mweltin: /join #ubuntu and you'll see what "IRC flood" means

22:34 <PovAddict> 1266 users

22:34 <MTughan> You should've seen #ubuntu-release-party on the 17th, the day before Gutsy was released.

22:34 <mweltin> sometimes your name comes in yellow (PovAddict) I assumed you were sending me a private message.

22:34 <mweltin> I dont' use irc much.

22:35 <PovAddict> that's probably if I include your name on the message

22:35 <PovAddict> mweltin: like this

22:35 <mweltin> hahaha

22:35 <mweltin> yup thats it.

22:35 <PovAddict> which is like totally required on a big support channel like #php where there's 5 groups of people helping each other at a time

22:35 <PovAddict> you need to know who's talking to who...

22:35 <mweltin> I'll get taht email support check right out to you.

22:35 <MTughan> Or #ubuntu, where you can have up to 10 at a time...

22:35 <PovAddict> yep

22:36 <mweltin> PovAddict: with tab completion, nice

22:36 <PovAddict> MTughan: got your WinPC "handy"?

22:36 <MTughan> Nope.

22:36 <mweltin> you have a long nic so its handy

22:36 <mweltin> I have an xp box if that helps

22:37 <MTughan> Ah... client_state.xml?

22:37 <zombie67> thanks for the help

22:37 *** wdsmia has quit IRC

22:38 <zombie67> got some WUs on milkyway

22:38 <MTughan> on_frac: 0.990231; connected_frac: -1; active_frac: 0.737173; cpu-efficiency: 0.086056

22:38 <MTughan> Active_frac is less than you, but on_frac is higher.

22:39 <MTughan> Connected_frac is broken here too.

22:39 <PovAddict> check cpu_efficiency

22:39 <MTughan> 0.086056

22:39 <PovAddict> eek

22:39 <mweltin> If I update the config.xml to increase the daily_result_quota how does that get reflected in the host table?

22:39 *** zombie67 has quit IRC

22:39 <MTughan> PovAddict: What's "eek" about that?

22:39 <PovAddict> MTughan: should be close to 1.0

22:40 <MTughan> You know what it is, yoyo@home.

22:40 <PovAddict> MTughan: have you been doing CPU-intensive stuff for a LONG period?

22:40 <MTughan> The only other thing would be one core being used for transcoding.

22:40 <PovAddict> well, that means BOINC has used 8% of the CPU

22:40 <MTughan> Ouch...

22:41 <MTughan> Yep, that's the right value.

22:41 <PovAddict> that is, for every hour (of "clock time") that some workunit was running, it used only 4 minutes of CPU time

22:41 <PovAddict> I'm not sure what period of time is used for that average, though

22:41 <MTughan> Yeah, it's yoyo@home.

22:41 <PovAddict> so it was stuck and *not using CPU*?

22:41 <PovAddict> eek, wasted CPU time >_<

22:42 <MTughan> Because while the transcoding was going on, I kept it running.

22:42 <MTughan> It was using CPU, but I didn't see it ever reflected on BOINC. I've killed three WUs now.

22:42 <PovAddict> mweltin: every day, quotas for all hosts get reset to the value on config.xml

22:43 <PovAddict> mweltin: when a host does a request, if more than 24 hours have passed since the quota was last reset, it's reset again

22:43 <PovAddict> also, each time a host returns an invalid result, quota gets decreased, and valid results increase it, using the config.xml value as top limit

22:44 <mweltin> PovAddict: my wu's are very small and a "cruncher" wanted that value to increase.  I changed it and looked at my entry in the host table but didn't notice a change.  I was curious, but thought that it must be automated some how.

22:44 <PovAddict> I'm not sure exactly how the increase/decrease works...

22:44 <PovAddict> I think it's bad result: quota - 1; good result: quota * 2

22:44 <mweltin> I had reached my quota for the day, and I'm not getting more workunits although the config.xml reflects a larger number.

22:46 <MTughan> There was something I was going to do/check, but I can't remember it now...

22:47 <mweltin> I had assumed some "task" updates the database, and its the database entry that is checked, not the config.xml.

22:47 <PovAddict> nope

22:47 <PovAddict> the scheduler updates the db itself, on each request

22:47 <MTughan> WTF?

22:47 <Romulus> <> (at

22:48 <PovAddict> oO

22:48 <mweltin> scheduler updates the database for the number of results, but what about quota limit?

22:48 <mweltin> doesn't it check the database as well, and not the config.xml?

22:49 *** zombie67 has joined #boinc

22:49 <PovAddict> the scheduler reads the quota limit from the host table, if more than 24 hours have passed since the quota was last reset, it's reset to the value in config.xml

22:49 <MTughan> Damn, yoyo[RKN] isn't here..

22:49 <mweltin> that makes perfect sense.

22:50 <zombie67> TSP is running his boinc project on an IBM laptop....

22:50 <PovAddict> zombie67: I know, mweltin is TSP owner :)

22:50 <mweltin> yes, and it was a BIG mistake

22:50 <PovAddict> hey, I started running it on my Pentium IV 3.0GHz

22:50 <MTughan> TSP?

22:50 <PovAddict> on a *virtual machine*

22:50 <zombie67> I am amazed it is hold up as well as it is!

22:51 <PovAddict> and it had *not enough RAM*

22:51 <mweltin> ouch, that had to hurt.

22:51 <PovAddict> and with 128kbps upload speed... ohh the forums were so damned slow...

22:51 <zombie67> Especially with the thousand upon thousands of up.downloads

22:51 <mweltin> what kills me is my internet connection.

22:51 <MTughan> This?

22:52 <Romulus> Title: TSP (at

22:52 <PovAddict> and 256kbps download speed... ohh everything lagging out with 20 users uploading at a time...

22:52 <mweltin> I'd give anything for 128kb

22:52 <PovAddict> mweltin: DIALUP?

22:52 <mweltin> thats it.

22:52 <mweltin> just about dialup

22:52 <MTughan> You're running a BOINC project off of dialup?! o_O

22:52 <PovAddict> page seems to be loading fast to be dialup

22:52 <mweltin> I'm in American Samoa and I have blueLink, which is a wireless service to the house.

22:52 <MTughan> Even if I could host it... I have 400Kbps up.

22:52 <zombie67> whatever works

22:52 <mweltin> everything is based on priority here.

22:53 <zombie67> seems like the first priority would be to make the WUs longer

22:53 <mweltin> you don't buy bandwidth, you buy a priority level for your tcp/ip packets.

22:53 <PovAddict> agreed

22:53 <zombie67> .0001 sec is just too short.  ;)

22:53 <mweltin> zombie67: you got that right.

22:53 <PovAddict> WTF

22:53 <MTughan> .0001s?

22:53 <PovAddict> .0001 sec workunits? how the hell is your connection still alive?

22:53 <zombie67> maybe an exaggeration

22:53 <mweltin> cut me some slack, its not like I know what I'm doing.

22:53 <zombie67> more like .001

22:54 <mweltin> 0.02 sec for some.

22:54 <zombie67> it's all good

22:54 <MTughan> mweltin: I'd probably be about as lost as you if I started up my own project.

22:54 <zombie67> I just attached the perfect machine for TSP

22:54 <PovAddict> all the uploads, and requests for more... seriously I'm surprised your connection is alive

22:54 <zombie67> it is a PII

22:54 <PovAddict> :P

22:54 <mweltin> that brings up a very good question and one I'm not sure how to deal with yet.

22:54 <PovAddict>

22:55 <PovAddict> I don't believe you have dialup-like speed

22:55 <mweltin> How do I deal with a workunit that may take longer then a computer would be running?

22:55 <zombie67> I am the top user, with 131 credits, RAC of 13

22:55 <mweltin> I'm looking over the upper_case.C code now.

22:55 <MTughan> I'm attached to your project...

22:55 <PovAddict> mweltin: for starters, nobody runs a computer for 1 minute at a time, so start increasing to at least that :)

22:55 <mweltin> and see stuff like checkpoints and shared memory but I'm not sure how to levereage this correctly.

22:56 <PovAddict> then... the solution is "checkpoints", saving to a file the application state

22:56 <mweltin> SWEET!

22:56 <mweltin> PovAddict: you rock.

22:56 <PovAddict> and being able to load the checkpoint, and resume

22:56 <mweltin> is a checkpoint like a function pointer?

22:56 <PovAddict> BOINC will not save your app state automatically, you need to implement that

22:56 <mweltin> will calling checkpoint call my specific checkpointer?

22:57 <zombie67> 131 credits with ~97,000 results returned

22:57 <PovAddict> BOINC doesn't call anything

22:57 <MTughan> 131 credits with 97,000 returned?

22:57 <mweltin> MTughan: are you asking me that?

22:57 <PovAddict> whenever your app is at some point where it can checkpoint (say, at the end of a loop iteration), it asks BOINC "should I checkpoint now?", and if yes, it does so and tells BOINC "ok done"

22:57 <MTughan> zombie67, but you could answer it.

22:58 <PovAddict> that's the concept

22:58 <PovAddict> here's the API:

22:58 <Romulus> <> (at

22:58 <zombie67> MTughan, answer what?

22:58 <MTughan> Your results.

22:58 <zombie67> what is the question?

22:59 <MTughan> Nevermind...

22:59 <zombie67> I have 131 credits with about 97k results returned

22:59 <MTughan> mweltin: No work for Mac clients?

22:59 <PovAddict> mweltin: when your app starts, it should check if the checkpoint file exists; if it doesn't, means it's the first time it starts, so compute from the beginning; if file exists, load it and resume computing from there

23:00 <mweltin> sorry MTughan not yet, there is a guy I met in the help Mike Harris he is working on building boinc on a MAC

23:00 <MTughan> Mike Harris?

23:00 <mweltin> and he has offered to help build my app.

23:00 <MTughan> He was a former premier of Ontario, Canada...

23:00 <mweltin> yeah, some aussie guy, really nice.

23:01 <MTughan> Anyway, I can help you compile if you need help too.

23:01 <mweltin> PovAddict: that was exactally what I needed.

23:02 <mweltin> once I make a new app I would appreciate that very much MTughan

23:02 <MTughan> Well, I should be here most of the time. I do have school during weekdays, but I'm here evenings, EDT.

23:02 <zombie67> I am still amazed a laptop is able to keep up with all the up/download hammering

23:02 <mweltin> the basics of my project is that its a genetic algorithm.

23:02 <mweltin> zombie67: me too

23:02 <MTughan> Hey, new Mac laptops have SATA connections.

23:05 <mweltin> hey MTughan do you want to buy me one?

23:05 <MTughan> lol, can't.

23:05 <MTughan> If you wanted though, I have VNC.

23:05 <mweltin> my GF is almost begging me for one.  Its her birthday Nov 5th.

23:06 <MTughan> Sorry, I can't come up with that much money. Being a student generally means you're short on money.

23:06 <zombie67> I am typing on a 17" MBP now

23:06 * MTughan wants

23:06 <mweltin> mac's are nice but I just can't see spending that much on a BSD box with a nice gui.

23:06 <mweltin> the gui just isn't worth the price for me.

23:07 <MTughan> Well, you could always take an older Dell and put Linux on it.

23:07 <mweltin> of course if someone said here have a mac, I'd take it and run before they changed their minds.

23:07 <MTughan> Okay, scrap that. Anything but Dell.

23:07 <zombie67> mac mini starts $599

23:07 <Romulus> It says :BOINC Manager is not a store run today to prep for trip to garden

23:07 <mweltin> no kidding, my dell sucks ass, but it was  a 1.3GH box for under a grand, and at the time that was a super good deal.

23:08 <mweltin> of course the mouse pad broke in a month, and the hard drive crapped out a few days after teh support contract ran out.

23:08 <MTughan> Nice.

23:08 <mweltin> its like they plan that.

23:08 <MTughan> Oh, they do.

23:09 <mweltin> Oh! and I'll get on my soap box for a second here.

23:09 <PovAddict> /o\

23:09 <mweltin> I call them and ask if there is anything specail about their drives, and no less than two people tell me that I HAVE to have a dell drive or it will not work.

23:10 <PovAddict> interoperability ftw

23:10 <mweltin> price was 75% more than even "best buy" aka worst buy and it was going to take three days to get it to me.

23:10 <mweltin> screw that I say, got to best buy cause I know I can return it if all goes wrong.

23:11 <zombie67> I call BS

23:11 <mweltin> pop in a new drive, and works like a charm.

23:11 <mweltin> I was SOOOOOO pissed off, I'll never buy delll again.

23:11 <zombie67> no such thing a a proprietary HD

23:11 <mweltin> ok I'm done no more soap box.

23:12 <mweltin> zombie67: that is exactally what I told them, "that doesn't make senes for you or the HD manf."

23:12 <mweltin> but they stuck with teh company line, yup gotta have a dell drive.

23:12 <MTughan> You may get proprietary HD connections, but rarely.

23:13 <zombie67> the droids just read off a script

23:13 <mweltin> funny you should mention that, the drives do have a small connector between them and the IDE connector on the mother board.

23:13 <zombie67> script starts over every time they transfer you to a new guy

23:13 <mweltin> LOL

23:13 <MTughan> mweltin: Not a connector.

23:13 <MTughan> Those are jumpers to set the drive to master, slave, or cable select.

23:14 <mweltin> not a connector but the set of pins on the mb.

23:14 <mweltin> been awhile I'd ahve to take it appart to be sure.

23:14 <mweltin> not going to do that nwo.  It runs and I'll count my lucky stars that it does.

23:15 <zombie67> the best they could have legitimately is to tell you that, if you open the box yourself, you void the warranty for the whole thing.

23:15 <mweltin> no they were not jumpers, it was a think that looks like the end of a IDE controller cable.

23:15 <zombie67> it was just a connector cable

23:15 <MTughan> There's only two connectors on an IDE harddrive: ribbon and power.

23:15 <mweltin> varranty was already up, never bought the extneded one.

23:15 <zombie67> the part that connects to the drive is standard

23:16 <PovAddict> wow

23:16 <PovAddict>

23:16 <zombie67> the part that connect to the MB may be proprietary

23:16 <Romulus> Title: Is it too much to ask to have ONE good image display API in Windows? - (at

23:16 <MTughan> lol, it's Windows.

23:18 <mweltin> ok I have to go read about checkpointing.

23:18 <mweltin> thank you all!

23:18 *** mweltin has quit IRC

23:18 <MTughan> Okay, SNL finally encoded into iMovie. I'm editing out commercials, and up to Weekend Update.

23:19 <MTughan> About two-thirds of the way through, it seems.

23:23 <MTughan> Dammit...

23:23 <MTughan> Okay, seems we did run into a bit of trouble today...

23:25 <MTughan> I was downloading SNL from the MythBox, and we had just finished it. My dad asked if we could delete it, cause we do if we can. Well, I forgot about the transfer at the time, and told him he could delete it. Right after he pressed the button, I remembered though, so I went up to check if the transfer had finished and wasn't cut off. It didn't seem to be, so I figured I had gotten it all. But the recording just cut off here.

23:25 <MTughan> So I don't have the last scene(s), it cuts off in the guidance sketch.

23:28 *** zombie67 has quit IRC

23:29 <MTughan> Okay, I have to go to bed now, but I'll export this overnight. I'll be able to make it available tomorrow.

23:34 <PovAddict> MTughan: "Consider the two C++ expressions (x>=y) and !(x<y). Is there a functional difference between them? Why might you choose one over the other?"

23:35 <MTughan> I'd say !(x<y).

23:36 <MTughan> Because then it just has to do one check, less than, rather than greater than or equal to.

23:36 <MTughan> Flipping the value is easy.

23:36 <PovAddict> "If they are floating-point values, the difference is significant because the two will differ in result if one of the values is a NaN (not a number)."

23:36 <PovAddict> "...any comparison involving a NaN always returns false"

23:36 <MTughan> So the ! one will return true...

23:37 <MTughan> So (x >= y) is better?

23:38 <MTughan> &weather Toronto

23:39 <Romulus> MTughan: Temperature: 61°F / 16°C | Humidity: 68% | Pressure: 29.99in / 1016hPa | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: North | Wind Speed: 0mph / 0km/h | Updated: 11:00 PM EDT; Tonight - Clear. Wind southwest 20 km/h (12 mph) gusting to 40 km/h (25 mph) becoming light this evening. Low 13C(55F).; Monday - Sunny. Wind becoming southwest 20 km/h (12 mph) late in the morning. High 24C(75F) except 19C(66F) along (1 more message)

23:39 <MTughan> &more

23:39 <Romulus> MTughan: the Lakeshore. UV index 4 or moderate. Monday night increasing cloudiness. Periods of rain beginning overnight. Wind southwest 20 km/h (12 mph) becoming light in the evening. Low 15C(59F).; Tuesday - Periods of rain. High 15C(59F).;

23:39 <MTughan> And I'm sweating my shirts to death...

23:40 <MTughan> Anyway, I've got to get down. Bye all.

23:41 *** efc has joined #boinc

23:41 <MTughan> Hehe... Nice timing e. Just as I'm going to bed. :P

23:42 <efc> Moo

23:46 <MTughan> Huh... Weather site says 21C and 40% humidity, but that's still killing me. >_>

23:47 *** zombie67 has joined #boinc

23:52 <quail> &weather ypad

23:52 <Romulus> quail: Temperature: 64°F / 18°C | Humidity: 83% | Pressure: 29.89in / 1012hPa | Conditions: Light Rain | Wind Direction: SSE | Wind Speed: 13mph / 20km/h | Updated: 1:00 PM CST; Overcast. High:93 F. / 34 C.; Chance of Rain. Low:64 F. / 18 C.; Chance of Rain. High:77 F. / 25 C.; Chance of Rain. Low:57 F. / 14 C.; Chance of Rain. High:64 F. / 18 C.; Partly Cloudy. Low:51 F. / 11 C.;

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