IRC logs of #boinc for Thursday, 2007-12-06

00:00 <mweltin> http://pastebin.com/d272b4cbd

00:00 <Romulus> Title: pastebin - collaborative debugging tool (at pastebin.com)

00:01 <MTughan> Okay, well I do know what's happening.

00:02 <MTughan> The header's being included twice.

00:02 <mweltin> which makes no sense with the #ifndef

00:02 <MTughan> Yeah, I'm getting the same error here...

00:03 <MTughan> Let me try splitting the files up, see what I can do.

00:06 <MTughan> Gah... Now I'm getting undefined symbols.

00:06 <mweltin> same here

00:06 <MTughan> All from MTRand.

00:06 <MTughan> seed(), MTRand() (constructor), randExc(), and randInt().

00:07 <mweltin> so what is f'ed up about randperm

00:07 <mweltin> that is the funciton I wrote.

00:07 <mweltin> none of the other get double definitions

00:07 <mweltin> I'll look at that closer.

00:08 <mweltin> thanks for talking it out MTughan

00:08 <MTughan> np, this is quite interesting to me too.

00:08 <mweltin> I'll be back if I need more help

00:08 <MTughan> Okay.

00:08 <mweltin> the nswer must be in there somewhere.

00:08 <mweltin> later

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00:16 <MTughan> PovAddict: Any ideas on what could cause undefined symbols, despite the fact that I can see them?

00:25 <MTughan> Gah, wish mweltin was here...

00:25 <MTughan> Figured it out. It was because all the functions were inline.

00:26 <MTughan> Oh, that's why it worked when we had just the .h...

00:28 <MTughan> Okay, there's two ways this can be done, I have figured out both.

00:28 <MTughan> PovAddict: You're missing on ##konfabulator too...

00:49 <Soul_keeper> what lib is -lXmu  ?

01:01 <MTughan> Quick Google search seems to indicate an X11 miscellaneous utility library.

01:03 <MTughan> For any GCC flag of the form -l<libname>, look for the file called lib<liblame>. The extension depends on the OS and the type. You'll generally see .a or .so on Linux, or .a or .dylib on OS X.

01:18 <MTughan> Well, I was wanting to talk to mweltin today, but that's not going to be possible. I've got to go to bed. If he comes back, someone can tell him I figured out the problem.

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01:50 <Tank_Master> ok

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01:53 <yoyo[RKN]> moin

01:54 <yoyo[RKN]> &weather berlin

01:54 <Romulus> yoyo[RKN]: Temperature: 48°F / 9°C | Humidity: 87% | Pressure: 29.86in / 1011hPa | Conditions: Mostly Cloudy | Wind Direction: SW | Wind Speed: 10mph / 17km/h | Updated: 7:20 AM CET; Chance of Rain. High:48 F. / 9 C.; Chance of Rain. Low:44 F. / 7 C.; Chance of Rain. High:50 F. / 10 C.; Chance of Rain. Low:44 F. / 7 C.; Rain. High:55 F. / 13 C.; Partly Cloudy. Low:39 F. / 4 C.;

01:56 <quail> &weather ypad

01:56 <Romulus> quail: Temperature: 90°F / 32°C | Humidity: 20% | Pressure: 29.62in / 1003hPa | Conditions: Mostly Cloudy | Wind Direction: North | Wind Speed: 34mph / 56km/h | Updated: 5:17 PM CST; Clear. High:75 F. / 24 C.; Scattered Clouds. Low:66 F. / 19 C.; Scattered Clouds. High:86 F. / 30 C.; Chance of Rain. Low:57 F. / 14 C.; Scattered Clouds. High:69 F. / 21 C.; Clear. Low:53 F. / 12 C.;

01:56 <yoyo[RKN]> ups

01:56 <yoyo[RKN]> bye, must leave

01:56 <Tank_Master> oh?

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01:56 <Tank_Master> well, have a good day

01:56 <quail> Conditions: Mostly Cloudy that crap we got a thunderstorm

01:56 <Tank_Master> oh not

01:58 <efc> moo

02:13 <quail> moo efc

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03:17 <CoderForLife> hello any and all

03:19 <CoderForLife> &weather 45140

03:19 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Temperature: 17.5F / -8.1C | Humidity: 86% | Pressure: 30.27in / 1024.9hPa | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: NW | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Tonight - Mostly cloudy early this evening...then clearing. Much colder with lows 12 to 17. North winds 10 to 15 mph...decreasing to up to 5 mph late this evening.; Thursday - Mostly sunny. Highs in the lower 30s. Light northeast winds...becoming (1 more message)

03:19 <CoderForLife> &more

03:19 <Romulus> CoderForLife: light southeast winds in the afternoon.; Thursday Night - Mostly cloudy. A chance of snow after midnight. Early lows in the upper 20s...then temperatures rising to around 30. Southeast winds around 5 mph. Chance of snow 40 percent.;

03:31 <quail> CoderForLife: Hi Don, how are you?

03:31 <freelarry> brr CoderForLife just foggy here

03:32 <freelarry> quail howdy to you to0 ;)

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03:33 <CoderForLife> morning quail freelarry and mweltin

03:33 <mweltin> hey CFL

03:34 <mweltin> so what is the deal wiht inline functions?

03:35 <CoderForLife> they are good because they never get out of line?

03:35 <mweltin> does the compiler really put it in where it gets called?

03:36 <CoderForLife> depends on programming language, and in most cases it's just a "suggestion" to the compiler

03:37 <efc> there's usually some heuristics based on function size, etc, used even if you don't ask for it, I believe

03:38 <CoderForLife> moo efc

03:38 <mweltin> C++

03:38 <mweltin> efc I think that is what the optimizations do in gcc

03:39 <CoderForLife> there's tradeoffs everywhere

03:39 * CoderForLife thinks that was a brilliant observation

03:40 <CoderForLife> with that...  brb breakfast

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03:47 <CoderForLife> b

03:47 <efc> Yo

03:47 <mweltin> good

03:48 <CoderForLife> thx

04:24 <quail> b

04:25 <CoderForLife> wb

04:28 <quail> thx :-)

04:28 <CoderForLife> np

04:33 * CoderForLife heaves a sigh, and wanders off in the general direction of w@#%

04:34 <PriitM> wank? =O

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06:12 <wdsmia> &weather 50265

06:13 <Romulus> wdsmia: Temperature: 16F / -9C | Humidity: 81% | Pressure: 30.19in / 1022hPa | Conditions: Mostly Cloudy | Wind Direction: SSE | Wind Speed: 7mph / 11km/h ; Today - Snow. New snow accumulation around 3 inches. High in the upper 20s. South wind 10 to 15 mph with gusts to around 25 mph. Chance of snow near 100 percent.; Tonight - Cloudy with snow likely and patchy freezing drizzle in the evening...then partly (1 more message)

06:13 <wdsmia> &more

06:13 <Romulus> wdsmia: cloudy after midnight. Little or no snow accumulation. Low in the lower 20s. South wind 5 to 15 mph shifting to the west 5 to 10 mph after midnight. Chance of precipitation 70 percent.; Friday - Partly sunny. High in the upper 20s. North wind 5 to 10 mph.; Snow Advisory for Warren County in effect until 6:00 PM CST on December 06, 2007;

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06:51 <BadBarbarian> Morning all

06:51 <Tidus> mornin

06:52 <BadBarbarian> why i am awake at before 5am i dont know lol

06:53 <Tidus> why i'm still up i'll never know

06:53 <BadBarbarian> lol

06:53 <BadBarbarian> atleast i have had some sleep

06:54 <Tidus> i work nights

06:54 <Tidus> lol

06:54 <BadBarbarian> ahh

06:55 <BadBarbarian> well tigerdirect messed up and credited my account so i have to reorder my refurb quad

06:55 <Tidus> sounds like fun

06:55 <Tidus> i'm too broke to upgrade any of my stuff :(

06:55 <BadBarbarian> atleast i get a new one

06:55 <Tidus> got an AM2 athlon-64 3500 with 512mb ram

06:55 <Tidus> quite poopish

06:56 <Tidus> once i get some extra money, gonna put an X2 black edition 5000 in here and 2gb ram

06:56 <BadBarbarian> i priced building my own the refub is much cheaper

06:56 <Tidus> x2 black edition 5000 is only US$130

06:56 <BadBarbarian> refurb

06:57 <BadBarbarian> let me show you the link brb

06:57 <Tidus> and the X2BE is completely unlocked.  FSB and multiplier are changeable by the user

06:57 <Tidus> don't have a graphical web browser on this computer

06:57 <Tidus> it's a text only linux system

06:57 <BadBarbarian> oh i quess i cant

06:58 <BadBarbarian> what kinf of mb are you using

06:58 <BadBarbarian> kind

06:58 <Tidus> my athlon?

06:58 <BadBarbarian> yes

06:58 <Tidus> MSI K9VGM-V

06:59 <BadBarbarian> nice very oc able

06:59 <Tidus> i built it as a smallish form factor media center

06:59 <Tidus> about the only mATX board i could find that had decent features

06:59 <Tidus> and yes, i know about OCing :P

06:59 <Tidus> the 3500 is 2.2ghz stock

06:59 <BadBarbarian> this has vista installed

06:59 <Tidus> got it at 2.6 on the stock cooler

07:00 <Tidus> temps never get over 45C

07:00 <Tidus> and no, it's got XP media center on it at the moment

07:00 <BadBarbarian> lol i am using a 3200 moble amd athlon singlecore

07:00 <Tidus> i'm running a single core 3500

07:00 <Tidus> overclocked by 20%

07:01 <BadBarbarian> xp x64 runs quite nicely on my laptop

07:01 <Tidus> i'm runnin MCE because i need the 10 foot interface

07:01 <BadBarbarian> kicks but on abc

07:02 <Tidus> mine's actually hooked up to the tv

07:02 <Tidus> play games on it, watch movies on it, it feeds the stereo...

07:03 <BadBarbarian> cool thats what my quad will do plus it has a tv capture card

07:03 <Tidus> mine's got the capture card, but don't have subscription tv at the moment

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07:04 <Tidus> mine's set up to control either a motorola digital cable box (through a firewire link, also gets video through this route) or most set top satellite boxes

07:04 <BadBarbarian> lol i went to my storage and pulled out a 100 lb 19 inch monitor for it lol

07:05 <Tidus> i need to find my vista dvd for it though

07:05 <Tidus> i like vista's media center better than XP

07:05 <BadBarbarian> almost got a hernia humping up the stairs

07:07 <Tidus> my ath64 has 2 "monitors" attached

07:07 <Tidus> a tv in the living room, and a 22" widescreen lcd sitting on the desk beside the computer

07:07 <Tidus> got a keyboard shortcut set up to swap the monitors

07:07 <BadBarbarian> i dont like vista very much but its because i have not used it much i like the mce in vista home premimum

07:13 <Tidus> BadBarbarian: the mce in home premium is the same as it is in ultimate

07:16 <BadBarbarian> cool

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07:37 <MTughan_> I can't seem to get to mweltin in a hurry again...

07:38 <MTughan_> Anyway, I must be off.

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09:12 <quail> g'evening all, how are we all?

09:14 <PriitM> huungryyy

09:14 <quail> ;-)

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09:15 <PriitM> yay! i found potato chip on floor

09:15 <quail> :S

09:16 <PriitM> it tasted rather bad

09:17 * quail sips on his mug of milo

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11:13 <zombie67> BURP news:  "Regarding the memory blocks: The company delivering the memory expects it to be available to them from the factory tomorrow. This means that it may or may not be delivered tomorrow. If not delivered tomorrow it will most likely be available at the next workday (monday)."

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11:32 <desti> Dec. 6, 10:30 a.m. EST: During tanking, two of four LH2 Engine Cutoff (ECO) sensors failed to respond appropriately, which is a Launch Commit Violation. The requirement to proceed calls for 3 of 4. The launch was scrubbed at 9:56 a.m. EST on the recommendation of Launch Director Doug Lyons.

11:32 <desti> Mission Management Team Chairman LeRoy Cain concurred following a short briefing on the issue. The ice inspection team will proceed with an abbreviated vehicle inspection prior to offloading the LO2 and LH2 and recycle for a launch attempt tomorrow, at 4:09 p.m.

11:32 <desti> A press briefing is tentative scheduled for 4 p.m. An update is forthcoming on NASA TV.

11:34 <desti> http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/170419main_atlantis_rss-lg.jpg

11:34 <Romulus> <http://ln-s.net/1Fe-> (at www.nasa.gov)

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12:12 <MTughan_> And still no mweltin... I'll see you all later.

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12:44 <yoyo[RKN]> PovAddict : you are online?

12:44 <PovAddict> I'm always online

12:44 <yoyo[RKN]> ;)

12:44 <PovAddict> I may or may not be actually here

12:44 <yoyo[RKN]> have a small problem

12:45 <yoyo[RKN]> i have 2 applications

12:45 <yoyo[RKN]> which the usere can select

12:45 <yoyo[RKN]> but what happens if the user does nothing in his project preferences

12:45 <yoyo[RKN]> what is the default and what does boinc do in this case

12:46 <PovAddict> I never used app selection (I have only one app)

12:47 <yoyo[RKN]> ok, but how is the process:

12:47 <yoyo[RKN]> 1) i attach to a project

12:47 <PovAddict> try it...

12:47 <PovAddict> create a new account on your own project and see what apps are allowed

12:48 <yoyo[RKN]> 2) boinc gets the preferences including the project specific part?

12:49 <PovAddict> well, you make the web interface for changing project-specific settings

12:49 <PovAddict> I think there is also a function to do the defaults

12:49 <yoyo[RKN]> can I somehow see what boinc gets and requests from the server

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12:50 <PovAddict> you mean the client?

12:50 <yoyo[RKN]> yes

12:50 <PovAddict> you should actually see the project_specific field on the user table on the server

12:51 <PovAddict> it's the server the one that looks at that to send work for one app or the other

12:51 <yoyo[RKN]> ah, ok

12:51 <PovAddict> but, yes you can see what the boinc gets and requests

12:52 <yoyo[RKN]> backgroud: yesterday I removed the beta flag and the user got also wus for the second app

12:52 <PovAddict> it's the sched_(request|reply)_www.rechenkraft.net_yoyo.xml

12:52 <yoyo[RKN]> but by default the second one is disabled

12:53 <PovAddict> check his project_specific field on the database

12:54 <yoyo[RKN]> it is empty

12:54 <PovAddict> :o

12:55 <yoyo[RKN]> because he never was in his project specific settings

12:55 <PovAddict> "If no <app_id> elements are present, the user may be sent work for any application."

12:56 <yoyo[RKN]> where did you read this?

12:56 <PovAddict> http://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/wiki/AppFiltering

12:56 <Romulus> <http://ln-s.net/153X> (at boinc.berkeley.edu)

12:57 <yoyo[RKN]> hmm, bad

12:57 <PovAddict> UPDATE user SET project_specific = "set the defaults here, be careful to use the correct XML format" WHERE project_specific = "";

12:58 <yoyo[RKN]> this i clear, but only set for existing user, not for new one ;)

12:58 <PovAddict> hack create_account.php?

12:59 <yoyo[RKN]> is an option, yes

13:00 <yoyo[RKN]> anyway, thx, now I know how it works and where I can influence it

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13:01 <yoyo[RKN]> the big french team plans a yoyo race and now they are claiming that they get evo wus

13:01 <yoyo[RKN]> I just wait for the end of the race and afterwards it is sitched on by default. I think than it is no more a proble.

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13:04 <yoyo_RKN> hmm, back

13:05 <yoyo_RKN> french team plans a race and want only ogr: http://pagesperso-orange.fr/jmdish/AFRAIDyoyo.gif

13:05 <Romulus> <http://ln-s.net/1Fg8> (at pagesperso-orange.fr)

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14:01 <zombie67> 500,000 in WCG!

14:06 <zombie67> looks like BRATS finally exported stats again.  I jumped from 140 to 230, but haven't returned a WU in months.

14:07 <PovAddict> I dont have an account on brats

14:08 <zombie67> I take it back.  I actually got a WU yesterday!

14:08 <zombie67> POV:  check this out:  http://maxwell.dhcp.umsl.edu/brats/results.php?userid=146

14:08 <Romulus> <http://ln-s.net/1FhE> (at maxwell.dhcp.umsl.edu)

14:08 <PovAddict> wtf

14:08 <PovAddict> asks me to login to see that

14:08 <zombie67> sorry

14:08 <zombie67> here:  http://maxwell.dhcp.umsl.edu/brats/workunit.php?wuid=384

14:08 <Romulus> <http://ln-s.net/1FhF> (at maxwell.dhcp.umsl.edu)

14:08 <PovAddict> ah, can't see user results... can see host though

14:09 <zombie67> shows nothing credited

14:09 <PovAddict> well, they were errored, of course no credit

14:09 <zombie67> yet look at the 95 credit result

14:09 <zombie67> Granted credit95.5581363613352

14:09 <zombie67> and boinc stats shows 96 credits yesterday

14:09 <PovAddict> the 102 has granted credit too

14:10 <zombie67> I can understand if the admin decided to grant credit even if error

14:10 <zombie67> probably what happened

14:10 <zombie67> but then why does the WU page show no credits?

14:12 <zombie67> and total = 1, yet there are obviously 2 results

14:13 <PovAddict> yeah

14:13 <PovAddict> once one errored, it should have got marked "Too many error results, Too many total results" before the second got sent

14:13 <zombie67> yeah.  bizartre

14:13 <zombie67> bizarre

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14:27 <mweltin> MTughan, hey buddy

14:28 * CoderForLife walks in and plops down

14:28 <mweltin> cfl how you do'n

14:28 <PovAddict> hey cfl got my link?

14:29 <CoderForLife> fair - my sister is still alive and kicking

14:29 * CoderForLife looks upthread

14:29 <PovAddict> http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.219431

14:29 <Romulus> <http://ln-s.net/1FTx> (at discuss.joelonsoftware.com)

14:30 <CoderForLife> oh, different link

14:30 <CoderForLife> looking

14:32 <CoderForLife> lol

14:33 <PovAddict> "Now that I'm the proud owner of my own general-purpose tool-building factory factory factory..."

14:33 <CoderForLife> lol

14:33 <CoderForLife> meta meta meta code generation

14:34 <CoderForLife> based on declarative templates

14:34 <PovAddict> http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.219431#discussTopic219669

14:34 <Romulus> Title: The Joel on Software Discussion Group - Why I Hate Frameworks (at discuss.joelonsoftware.com)

14:34 <CoderForLife> "Anything you can do, I can do meta." - Charles Simonyi

14:37 <CoderForLife> they don't mention grails

14:37 <PovAddict> oh I looked some into Groovy

14:37 <PovAddict> not too much

14:37 <CoderForLife> "Ruby is not an option, or else I would look at Rails (becuase hey, I've already looked at several dozen other frameworks, so why not look at one more). But really, it absolutely has to be Java."

14:38 <CoderForLife> this naturally would lead to a Grails discussion

14:38 <CoderForLife> a personal project of mine is to learn Groovy/Grails

14:42 <PovAddict> I saw some Ruby examples

14:42 <PovAddict> if I had any interest on it, it's now gone

14:44 <mweltin> hahaahah

14:44 <mweltin> ruby is nice but the rails framework has a long way to goo.

14:44 <mweltin> its still maturing.

14:45 <mweltin> why I did a rails tutorial half my time was used up looking for replacements to depricated functions.

14:45 <mweltin> I moved from windows ot linx and everything broke.

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14:48 <Tank_Master> mw!

14:49 <mweltin> Tank_Master,

14:50 <mweltin> PovAddict, what does boinc_finish do?

14:50 <PovAddict> tells the core client it's done, cleanly stops the thread that talks to the client, maybe some other cleanup, and then just calls exit()

14:50 <mweltin> FILE_LOCK::unlock(): close failed.: Bad file descriptor

14:51 <PovAddict> hmm

14:51 <mweltin> is what I get, but I'm sure I close all my file handles.

14:51 <PovAddict> the only file tht gets locked is boinc_lock

14:51 <PovAddict> are you getting that constantly, or was it a rare event?

14:51 <mweltin> constantly

14:52 <mweltin> hahaha

14:52 <mweltin> I bet Iknow what it is.

14:52 <mweltin> I don't think I'm calling boinc_init

14:52 <PovAddict> lol

14:52 <Tank_Master> :)

14:53 <mweltin> PovAddict,  I also wanted to ask your input on saving the RNG state.

14:53 <mweltin> it's a 265 element integer array.

14:54 <mweltin> the api allows you to load and dump to a file stream.

14:54 <mweltin> but that file would have to be different than the check point file.

14:55 <mweltin> so my question is......

14:56 <mweltin> should I make a wrapper that saves it in some xml in the check point file? or ....

14:56 <mweltin> should I just open an ofstream and dump it to some random file.

14:56 <Tank_Master> make the file name dfhg934439ed.xml

14:57 <mweltin> I don't like the second option because I'm not useing boinc_resolve_filename, so if two jobs are running I don't know how to tell them appar.

14:57 <mweltin> but its much easier this way.

14:57 <mweltin> Tank_Master, que?

14:58 <Tank_Master> you wanted a randome file to put the stuff into, right?

14:58 <Tank_Master> cant get more randome than that

14:58 <mweltin> thanks tank I'll consider tht.

14:58 <Tank_Master> hehe

14:58 <Tank_Master> cool ;)

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15:25 <CoderForLife> PovAddict - were you looking into OpenID?  http://www.ddj.com/linux-open-source/204701485;jsessionid=M3RX2RAWGRXIAQSNDLPCKHSCJUNN2JVN

15:25 <Romulus> <http://ln-s.net/1Fiu> (at www.ddj.com)

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15:27 <PovAddict> mweltin: use two different checkpoint files

15:27 <PovAddict> the "checkpoint" doesn't have to be just one file

15:27 <PovAddict> anyway g2g

15:27 <PovAddict> j2ee course

15:28 * PovAddict -> struggle with public transport

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15:45 <mweltin> ok

15:45 <mweltin> sounds like you just saved me a ton of time Pov

15:45 <mweltin> thanks

15:47 <mweltin> can I write to a file pointer the same way as a file stream?

15:48 <mweltin> isgtw just asked me to write an article about TSP.

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15:56 <CoderForLife> &weather 45140

15:56 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Temperature: 33F / 0.6C | Humidity: 64% | Pressure: in / hPa | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: South | Wind Speed: 1mph / 1.6km/h ; Today - Mostly sunny...becoming partly cloudy late. Highs in the lower 30s. Light southeast winds.; Tonight - Becoming cloudy. Snow likely with a chance of freezing rain and sleet after midnight. Snow and sleet accumulation around an inch. Light ice (1 more message)

15:57 <CoderForLife> ack!

15:57 <CoderForLife> &more

15:57 <Romulus> CoderForLife: accumulation possible. Lows in the upper 20s. Southeast winds around 5 mph. Chance of precipitation 70 percent.; Friday - Cloudy. A chance of snow...a slight chance of freezing rain and sleet in the morning. Highs in the upper 30s. South winds 5 to 10 mph. Chance of precipitation 40 percent.; Snow Advisory for Hamilton County in effect until 10:00 AM EST on December 07, 2007;

15:57 <mweltin> mmmmmmm

15:57 <mweltin> sounds awful

15:57 * CoderForLife grumbles

15:57 <mweltin> I'm going diving later today.

15:58 <CoderForLife> watch out for ice =)

15:58 <mweltin> without a wet suit

15:58 <mweltin> water temp is 84

15:58 <mweltin> did PovAddic1 take off?

15:58 <CoderForLife> I don't think he saw the link I posted for him

15:59 <mweltin> do you know much about file pointers?

15:59 <CoderForLife> *fp

15:59 <mweltin> god

15:59 <CoderForLife> *fp=fopen("god");

16:00 <mweltin> so to keep names straight in boinc you have to use this boinc_resovle_filename

16:00 <CoderForLife> yuppers

16:00 <mweltin> and then use boinc_fopen which is exactly like fopen

16:00 <CoderForLife> make no assumptions about the underlying file system

16:00 <mweltin> my random number generator wants a file stream (ofstream)

16:01 <mweltin> to save its state to.

16:01 <CoderForLife> make it / fake it / shake and bake it

16:02 <mweltin> well I'm wondering, resolve_filename does just that.

16:02 <mweltin> so can I skipp the call to boinc_fopen?

16:03 <mweltin> and just open an ofstream to write my file to?

16:03 <mweltin> I don't see anything wrong with that do you?

16:03 <CoderForLife> your app may blow up on another system

16:04 <CoderForLife> as long as you lock down the architecture (like "only 32bit Windows supported") you may be OK

16:04 <CoderForLife> another area of concern may be if you app gets swapped out by the boincmgr

16:05 <CoderForLife> you may leave your file handle open?

16:05 <CoderForLife> dunno - just thinktyping out loud

16:10 *** PovAddic1 has quit IRC

16:11 *** Aruzo has quit IRC

16:13 <mweltin> well why would I be stuck to an platform.

16:13 <mweltin> c++ si pretty standard.

16:14 *** Saenger has joined #boinc

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16:38 <CoderForLife> file names are not the same between OSes, for one reason

16:39 <mweltin> I'm still going to use boinc_resolve_filename, just not boinc_fopen.

16:39 <CoderForLife> right

16:40 <mweltin> so you still see a problem with that?

17:00 <mweltin> I checked the source

17:01 <mweltin> I see that I should use boinc_fopen if at all possible.

17:01 <mweltin> I'm going to over load the rng's state saver.

17:03 <CoderForLife> when I did a project that used sqlite to read/write data locally on the client, I modified the sqlite fopen() to do boinc_fopen(), then I could send SQL tables as the data for the WU

17:04 <CoderForLife> YMMV

17:04 <mweltin> thats cool

17:07 *** PovAdct_v2 has joined #boinc

17:07 <PovAdct_v2> ok I was reading the log

17:07 <PovAdct_v2> just some comments... you DONT use resolve_filename for stuff like checkpoints

17:08 <PovAdct_v2> and in response to CFL's concern, the boinc client won't suspend your app if it's in the middle of checkpointing

17:16 <mweltin> what?

17:17 <mweltin> what is with the resolve_filename for checkpoints.

17:17 <Tank_Master> only with later clients though

17:17 *** siofwolves has quit IRC

17:18 <mweltin> so does the client delete all file created by the app when it finishes?

17:20 <PovAdct_v2> if you don't use resolve_filename, you create files on the 'slot' directory

17:20 <PovAdct_v2> which is independent on each workunit

17:21 <PovAdct_v2> resolve_filename should only be used for input and output (that you declared on the workunit/result templates); not for intermediate files, like checkpoints

17:21 <mweltin> nice

17:21 <PovAdct_v2> the whole slot directory is deleted when the WU ends

17:21 <mweltin> NICE

17:21 <mweltin> thats awsome

17:22 <mweltin> that makes life easy.

17:23 <PovAdct_v2> seriously, some projects create hundreds of files there

17:24 <PovAdct_v2> on my project, the input file is a zip that may have one file, or five files, or a hundred files on a complex hierarchy

17:26 <mweltin> so I don't have to say fopen("slot/somefile")

17:26 <mweltin> it will just open in "slot" ?

17:27 <PovAdct_v2> the current directory IS the slot

17:27 <PovAdct_v2> (actually, slot/some number; different number for each running wu)

17:27 <PovAdct_v2> so you fopen("somefile")

17:27 <Tank_Master> "slot 148726354 now active"

17:29 <PovAdct_v2> look at /boinc install dir/slot

17:31 <mweltin> got it

17:31 <mweltin> nice

17:32 <PovAdct_v2> I have been wanting for a while to make some *animation* illustrating how things work

17:34 <PovAdct_v2> what should I do first? WU cycle on the server from creation to deletion? app process since the client starts it till computation ends? Wu cycle on client since it's downloaded?

17:36 <mweltin> I'd say the WU cycle as that is the most confusing

17:37 <mweltin> its nto too confusing but the concept fo the result and the fact that they are called tasks as well

17:37 <PovAdct_v2> the WU cycle on the server?

17:37 <mweltin> leads to some confusion.

17:37 <mweltin> yeah

17:38 <PovAdct_v2> they're called tasks on the client, for the normal humans (= users)

17:38 <PovAdct_v2> they're still called results internally, everywhere

17:38 <mweltin> I'd start with the WU cycle

17:38 <mweltin> did you see someone from iSGTW.org asked me to write a artcle for late january.

17:39 <mweltin> about tsp.

17:39 <mweltin> you should get a mention in there.  Which name should I use?

17:39 <mweltin> N.A. or Pov?

17:39 <PovAdct_v2> there is *some* info here: http://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/wiki/WorkunitLifeCycle

17:39 <Romulus> Title: WorkunitLifeCycle - BOINC - Trac (at boinc.berkeley.edu)

17:40 <PovAdct_v2> I chose the PovAddict nickname in a hurry first time I got on IRC, now I'm stuck to it, but I'd change it if I could (and if I knew what to change it to)

17:40 <mweltin> someone, possibly you, sent me an email detailing the life cylce.

17:40 <PovAdct_v2> yeah I basically sticked what I wrote on that email into the wiki...

17:41 <PovAdct_v2> that page still needs lots of work

17:45 <wdsmia> yuk! what a mess out there

17:45 <Tank_Master> lol

17:45 <Tank_Master> street sweaper came by today

17:45 <Tank_Master> my raod is all nice n clean now :)

17:45 <PovAdct_v2> &weather buenos aires

17:46 <Romulus> PovAdct_v2: Temperature: 77°F / 25°C | Humidity: 57% | Pressure: 29.71in / 1006hPa | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: NE | Wind Speed: 13mph / 20km/h | Updated: 7:00 PM ART; Clear. High:80 F. / 27 C.; Partly Cloudy. Low:66 F. / 19 C.; Chance of Rain. High:75 F. / 24 C.; Overcast. Low:66 F. / 19 C.; Clear. High:78 F. / 26 C.; Overcast. Low:59 F. / 15 C.;

17:46 <wdsmia> 50 min to go 10 miles :(

17:46 <Tank_Master> lol

17:46 <PovAdct_v2> congrats wdsmia

17:46 <PovAdct_v2> is that a slowness record, or have you had worse?

17:46 <wdsmia> &weather 50265

17:46 <Romulus> wdsmia: Temperature: 27F / -3C | Humidity: 86% | Pressure: 29.96in / 1014hPa | Conditions: Light Snow | Wind Direction: SSE | Wind Speed: 7mph / 11km/h ; Late This Afternoon - Snow. New snow accumulation around 1 inch. Total snow accumulation 3 to 4 inches. South wind around 10 mph. Chance of snow near 100 percent.; Tonight - Cloudy. A slight chance of snow in the evening...then patchy freezing drizzle after (1 more message)

17:46 <wdsmia> &more

17:46 <Romulus> wdsmia: midnight. Areas of freezing fog after midnight. Low in the lower 20s. Southwest wind 5 to 10 mph. Chance of precipitation 20 percent.; Friday - Mostly cloudy. Areas of freezing fog in the morning. High around 30. Northwest wind 5 to 10 mph.; Snow Advisory for Warren County in effect until 6:00 PM CST on December 06, 2007;

17:47 <Tank_Master> &weather 97007

17:47 <Romulus> Tank_Master: Temperature: 51.4F / 10.8C | Humidity: 86% | Pressure: 29.72in / 1006.3hPa | Conditions: Overcast | Wind Direction: NNE | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Today - Rain at times in the morning...then showers likely in the afternoon. Highs 45 to 50. Light wind.; Tonight - Mostly cloudy. A chance of showers in the evening. Patchy fog after midnight. Lows 35 to 40. North wind 5 to 10 mph.; Friday - (1 more message)

17:47 <Tank_Master> &more

17:47 <Romulus> Tank_Master: Mostly cloudy. Patchy fog in the morning. Highs around 45. North wind 5 to 10 mph.; Flood Warning for Washington County in effect until 9:16 PM PST on December 07, 2007;

17:47 <Tank_Master> I tell ya

17:48 <Tank_Master> you get a little rain for 2 days and they have a warning for it the week after

17:50 <wdsmia> http://www.511ia.org/DM_Metro_tripGuide.asp?display=tripguide&area=TG_IA_DesMoines&textOnly=False

17:50 <Romulus> <http://ln-s.net/1Flz> (at www.511ia.org)

17:50 <CoderForLife> back

17:51 <wdsmia> front

17:51 <mweltin> ok have work to do, CFL Pov had some good points on bionc_reslove_filename

17:51 <mweltin> take care all

17:51 *** mweltin has quit IRC

17:52 <CoderForLife> golly - I'll keep coming here if I get respected like that

17:52 <wdsmia> lol

17:53 <CoderForLife> looks like I've got another slug of winter weather coming in

17:53 <wdsmia> yep its a mess

17:53 <wdsmia> and you can have it

17:53 <CoderForLife> Doug - I figured out that we need someone in Peoria that I can blame the weather on

17:54 <CoderForLife> or Indianapolis, but Peoria deserves more abuse

17:54 <wdsmia> or Omaha

17:55 <CoderForLife> I was doing a straight line between us =)

17:56 <wdsmia> I cant blame it on them if its already past

17:57 <wdsmia> following that logic Tank_Master started it :P

17:57 <CoderForLife> they could stop it...

17:58 <CoderForLife> a butterfly flapping it's wings in China

17:58 <wdsmia> ELGono eathing to much chilli in Germany

18:00 <xcamel> 'lo

18:01 <wdsmia> *lo Jay

18:01 <CoderForLife> hello Jay

18:01 <wdsmia> brb

18:01 <CoderForLife> how are you feeling xcamel - on the mend?

18:01 <CoderForLife> k wdsmia

18:02 <xcamel> a bit better today..

18:03 <CoderForLife> that's good

18:07 <CoderForLife> brb

18:08 <xcamel> think I'll attempt to go in to work tomorrow...

18:11 <CoderForLife> brb^2

18:13 <wdsmia> Bingo!!! 1,000,849 at QMC

18:22 <CoderForLife> golly jeepers wdsmia

18:25 * CoderForLife bows to wdsmia and his "fastest to a million" feat

18:26 <xcamel> 1055463.37 @ QMC

18:26 <wdsmia> 21 months isnt all that fast lol

18:32 <CoderForLife> you seemed to get there fast recently

18:32 <CoderForLife> you weren't anywhere near the RAC of some of us

18:33 <wdsmia> only had a 12K rac there

18:33 * CoderForLife listens to the sizzle sound coming from the RAC column

18:34 <xcamel> lol

18:34 * wdsmia looks at the project list to see who will get the lions share next

18:34 <CoderForLife> I think I'm going to drop off here and talk to the wife

18:34 <wdsmia> cya

18:34 * CoderForLife picks up the towel, and tosses it in

18:35 <CoderForLife> tc Doug, Jay, Nic, etc

18:36 * CoderForLife slinks away

18:39 <xcamel> hope he picked it up with rubber gloves on...

18:41 * wdsmia calls Hazmat for CoderForLife

18:51 <xcamel> hmmm... new einstein linux app..

18:52 <xcamel> ssr3-4.20

18:52 <xcamel> make that S5R3_4.20

18:55 <wdsmia> Looks like broccoli is down again... no surprise there

18:58 *** zombie67 has quit IRC

18:58 <xcamel> big science?

18:59 <wdsmia> ?

18:59 <xcamel> broccoli...

18:59 *** Saenger has quit IRC

19:00 <wdsmia> lol broccoli = berkeley

19:00 <PovAdct_v2> announced outage

19:00 <PovAdct_v2> electrical repairs lab-wide

19:03 <PovAdct_v2> "will be down for about 18 hours starting at 3 PM PST, Dec 6."

19:05 <wdsmia> so in other words they will try to bring it up after there 9am coffee break

19:05 *** efc has joined #boinc

19:06 *** zombie67 has joined #boinc

19:08 *** PovAdct_v2 has quit IRC

19:16 <xcamel> ah..

19:16 <xcamel> try 'bezerkeley'

19:19 <wdsmia> well broccoli looks green and nice but tastes like sh@#$

19:20 * efc likes it, raw only

19:22 <wdsmia> Berkeley is defiantly overcooked

19:23 <efc> They've got broccoflaur in the stores now.. haven't tried it. looks un-natural.

19:23 *** _coredump_ has joined #boinc

19:23 <BadBarbarian> Evening All

19:23 <_coredump_> evening

19:24 <efc> Hey

19:27 <xcamel> 'lo BB

19:28 <xcamel> 'lo Eddie

19:28 <BadBarbarian> lo Xcamel

19:28 <BadBarbarian> has larry been on

19:29 <xcamel> haven't been on much myself..

19:29 <xcamel> I know that area got hit hard..

19:29 <wdsmia> freelarry (15h.56m.54s idle)

19:29 <BadBarbarian> want to see if he got that netcard

19:29 <xcamel> hope it didn't drown in the mail...

19:29 <BadBarbarian> true

19:30 <BadBarbarian> i didnt insure it

19:30 <BadBarbarian> lol

19:30 <xcamel> I've been kind of out of it with a stomach bug for the last few days

19:30 <BadBarbarian> i will just dig another out of my junk box

19:33 <BadBarbarian> if you boil broccoli till it turns bright green than use icewater to stop cooking its great in a Woc

19:34 <BadBarbarian> Wok

19:43 <xcamel> you have to wok before you run..

19:44 <efc> Fozzy: wokka wokka wokka!

19:51 *** BadBarbarian has quit IRC

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19:57 * xcamel liked Fozzy

19:57 <zombie67> mwelton!

19:57 <zombie67> in

19:58 <zombie67> question for you.  Do you have RAC decay turned on?  If not, can youplease turn it on?

19:58 *** _coredump_ has quit IRC

19:58 <wdsmia> *lo Z and  mw

19:58 <mweltin> hey

19:58 <zombie67> My RAC is still awful high

19:58 <mweltin> what is rac decay?

20:00 <mweltin> hi wdsmia

20:00 <mweltin> is the boinc homepage down?

20:00 <zombie67> yes

20:01 <mweltin> ok goign to make it hard ot read about decay then

20:01 <wdsmia> bezerkeley is down for 18+ hrs

20:01 <Tank_Master> I know RAC decay

20:01 <zombie67> when BOINC site is back up, see here for info about turning on RAC decay:  http://boinc.berkeley.edu/project_tasks.php

20:01 <Tank_Master> Basicly turn it on

20:02 <zombie67> RAC = Recent Average Credit

20:02 <zombie67> a moving average

20:02 <Tank_Master> w/o it, if someone suddenly stops running the project, the reported RAC in the xml expeots will always remain the same

20:02 <Tank_Master> but it wont move whne they stop runnning the project

20:02 <Tank_Master> with the decay on, it will

20:02 <zombie67> If someone stops crunching, their RAC value should start to drop

20:03 <Tank_Master> it ownr unless the RAC decay is turned on

20:03 <zombie67> it should approach 0 after about a month

20:03 <Tank_Master> wont*

20:03 <zombie67> right.  I am just trying to explain RAC to mweltin

20:03 <mweltin> ok

20:04 <zombie67> mine isn't budging.

20:04 <Tank_Master> ahh, ok

20:04 <mweltin> I'll do it, but what does it matter.

20:04 <mweltin> I don't see what difference that makes, is it a stats thing?

20:04 <Tank_Master> can artifially increase one's total RAC for combined projects

20:04 <zombie67> it shows on your stats pages

20:04 <Tank_Master> yes, just a stat thing

20:05 <zombie67> Total tells what people have crunched for all time.

20:05 <Tank_Master> wont affect the project in any other way

20:05 <zombie67> RAC tell what people have crunched RECENTLY

20:05 <zombie67> who is active, and who isnt

20:05 <zombie67> look here

20:05 <zombie67> http://bob.myisland.as/tsp/top_users.php

20:05 <Romulus> Title: Top participants (at bob.myisland.as)

20:06 <Tank_Master> dose RND have a MAC app?

20:06 <mweltin> he Tank_Master your on top

20:06 <mweltin> and then zombie67

20:06 <mweltin> Al Dente ahahaha thats funny

20:06 <zombie67> click on column headers

20:06 * wdsmia knows mweltin thinks credit and stats are not important

20:07 <mweltin> no it's important

20:07 <mweltin> they keep people interested in the project, or at least boinc as a whole

20:07 <xcamel> no, it's important than that even

20:07 <wdsmia> he's learning lol

20:07 <mweltin> slowly

20:08 <Tank_Master> hehe

20:08 <mweltin> the boinc page is not loading.

20:08 <zombie67> boinc page is down for 4-5 hours

20:08 <xcamel> people would run "cleaningcatboxes@home" if it gave great creadits..

20:08 <xcamel> er credits even

20:09 <mweltin> hahaha

20:09 <mweltin> I'd run that if it worked.

20:09 <xcamel> if you know how to really build a project, there is one that would make you world wild famous for ever...

20:09 <Tank_Master> Id run it even if there were no credits if it did that for me

20:11 <xcamel> the biggest problem is that my project would need to run using realtime dynamic data

20:11 <mweltin> ok so without hte boinc pages I can't see how to add the task

20:11 <Tank_Master> carefully

20:11 <mweltin> TSP made the news on the boinc home page too.

20:11 <Tank_Master> sweet!

20:11 <mweltin> that was nice of Dr. Anderson I thought.

20:11 <Tank_Master> congrats

20:12 <xcamel> and it would be tougher than any folding project

20:12 <mweltin> did I tell you about the isgtw yet?

20:12 *** efc has quit IRC

20:12 <Tank_Master> ?

20:13 <mweltin> they want an article about the TSP project.  Its some oneline zine isgtw.org.

20:13 <mweltin> said they would print something in late januray.

20:13 <Tank_Master> is boincstats down again?

20:13 * xcamel is being ignored

20:13 <Tank_Master> no, just hella slow

20:13 * Tank_Master slaps xcamel around a bit with a large trout

20:13 <mweltin> no, I just don't know what you are atlakinga bout.

20:15 <xcamel> think about a boinc project that could taki in realtime dynamic weather (severe storm) data, parse it, analyze it, and predict storm progress on the fly

20:15 <mweltin> nice

20:15 <mweltin> insanly comlicated but nice

20:16 <xcamel> like CPDN, only using realtime data

20:16 <mweltin> I wouldn't eve know where to begin.

20:16 <mweltin> so zombie67 do you have a snipped from a config.xml file I can see to enable RAC decay?

20:16 <mweltin> you run it once a day or what?

20:17 <Tank_Master> mw could use it to determan the best path!!

20:17 <xcamel> 11,000 datapoints, calculated in a 3d space, using 4000 variables

20:17 <mweltin> hahaha

20:17 <Tank_Master> if theres lots of ice or a hurricane in an area, avoide it ;)

20:17 <wdsmia> would have to have a large initial replication and a short deadline

20:18 <xcamel> data dropout would be the biggest problem - wu's measured in seconds

20:18 <mweltin> yeah

20:18 <mweltin> ahhh the 0.2 sec WU

20:18 <mweltin> those were the days.

20:19 <wdsmia> wasnt that last month mweltin? lol

20:19 <mweltin> That was back when i didn't know what I was doing, that is not to say i do now, but I know more.

20:19 <mweltin> yeah was't long ago.

20:25 <mweltin> zombie67, I'll keep an eye on the boinc page.  If you don't see decay implimented in a few days it means I forgot.

20:39 <Tank_Master> hehe

20:40 * wdsmia slaps Tank_Master around with a large fly swatter

20:41 * Tank_Master takes a shot at the rod on the fly swatter and scores a direct hit

20:42 * Tank_Master causes the fly swater to swing around and hit wdsmia in the face

20:43 <mweltin> its getting ugly in here.

20:43 * wdsmia sends Tank_Master a swarm of mweltin's 0.2 sec WU's

20:43 <mweltin> hahahahahaha

20:44 * Tank_Master eats them for lunch

20:45 <xcamel> Obviam marinus  :=  :=  :=  O:=  :=  :=  :=

20:47 * wdsmia puts on sun glasses to read xcamel's line

20:50 <wdsmia> doesent help wdsmia skipped Latin class in school

20:52 <xcamel> it was a script-gasm

20:52 <xcamel> unintended

20:53 <xcamel> >> 45nm Intel mobile chips coming on January 6

20:53 <xcamel> http://techreport.com/discussions.x/13743

20:53 <Tank_Master> sweet

20:53 <Romulus> Title: 45nm Intel mobile chips coming on January 6 - The Tech Report (at techreport.com)

20:55 <xcamel> Starbucks has issued a recall for 140,000 coffee mugs...

20:55 <mweltin> why

20:55 <xcamel> made in china...

20:55 <mweltin> lead

20:55 <xcamel> no - liberals - "flying off the handle"

20:56 <xcamel> er... handles flying off...

20:56 <wdsmia> lol

20:58 <Tank_Master> when the liberals toss them?

20:58 <Tank_Master> ;)

21:02 <mweltin> I'm out

21:02 <mweltin> later guys

21:02 <xcamel> I've had more than one cup tossed at me while passing a starbucks....

21:02 <wdsmia> cya

21:02 *** mweltin has quit IRC

21:04 <xcamel> I got so tired of this one loser whining and boo-hooing about the '04 election, I walked over to the cvs an bought a "feminine emergency pack" and slammed it down on his table.

21:05 <xcamel> I said "This might help, now please shut up."

21:06 <xcamel> several other patrons clapped.

21:07 <xcamel> Bruenhilde, the dominatrix/manager asked me to leave...

21:10 *** PovAddict has joined #boinc

21:19 <zombie67> brb

21:19 *** zombie67 has left #boinc

21:21 *** zombie67 has joined #boinc

21:21 <zombie67> hi POV

21:21 <zombie67> mweltin needs help with turning on RAC decay

21:25 <zombie67> TM:  you there?

21:29 <Tank_Master> no

21:31 <zombie67> you know that annoying problem, where an app fails with a pop-up?

21:31 <zombie67> and it sometimes won't let go of the core until you dismiss it?

21:31 <Tank_Master> ya

21:31 <PovAddict> I think you could disable error reporting on windoze

21:32 <zombie67> yes!

21:32 <zombie67> \I just learned how to do that!

21:32 <Tank_Master> yes you can

21:32 <Tank_Master> lol

21:32 <PovAddict> well I knew you could, no idea how

21:32 <zombie67> so if you knew, why no share??

21:32 <Tank_Master> cus I didnt think of it

21:32 <zombie67> do you want to know how?

21:32 <Tank_Master> you just disable error reporting

21:33 <zombie67> yeah, do you want to know how?

21:33 <zombie67> either of you?

21:33 <Tank_Master> Im on server 2008, all my XP boxes are at work

21:33 <zombie67> it is simple

21:33 <zombie67> Control panel -> system

21:34 <PovAddict> I haven't had a boinc workunit crash in that way in months

21:34 <Tank_Master> hydrogen is

21:34 <zombie67> advanced tab -> error reporting button.

21:34 <zombie67> hydrogen and milkyway do it all the time

21:35 <zombie67> nanohive had that problem too, for quite a while

21:35 <Tank_Master> there is no error reporting button on server 2008

21:36 <Tank_Master> but it dosent matter

21:36 <zombie67> probably just moved it for no good reason

21:36 <Tank_Master> the core is released even when the pop-up is there

21:37 <zombie67> I found that it varies project to project.

21:37 <zombie67> sometimes te core is released, sometimes now

21:37 <zombie67> no

21:38 <Tank_Master> server 2008 I think changed some of that

21:38 <Tank_Master> for there only one pop-up at a time for the same app

21:38 <Tank_Master> not like XP where you can have tomes all layered

21:40 <Tank_Master> http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3167

21:40 <Romulus> <http://ln-s.net/1Fpb> (at www.anandtech.com)

21:40 <Tank_Master> new SSD that are faster than the raptors!

21:40 <Tank_Master> (and cost a tone more)

21:42 <zombie67> cool

21:44 <xcamel> SSD's will be the future...

21:45 <Tank_Master> yep

21:45 <xcamel> in one form or another

21:45 <Tank_Master> that they will

21:45 <Tank_Master> MS is commin gout with a new FAT system for removable flash drives

21:46 <xcamel> I have a micro sd that has more memory than one of my old 286's with 4 fully populated 12" daughtercards

21:46 <Tank_Master> should help the performance for flash based USB sticks

21:46 <Tank_Master> ;p;

21:46 <Tank_Master> lol

21:47 <xcamel> I think there were 320 dip memory chips

21:47 <zombie67> 2nd interception by the redskins!

21:47 <xcamel> and that was my graphics box...

21:47 <zombie67> brb

21:48 <xcamel> flash drives use fat12, right?

21:48 <Tank_Master> no

21:49 <xcamel> brain fart..

21:49 <Tank_Master> fat16 just for backwards compatity

21:49 <Tank_Master> fat12 was the floppy

21:49 <Tank_Master> but you can format a USB stick in fat32 and still work on the majority of comps today

21:50 <Tank_Master> I have mine in NTFS

21:50 <Tank_Master> exFAT is the name of the new one MS is comming out with in vista SP1 and server 2008

21:50 <Tank_Master> &google exfat

21:50 <Romulus> Tank_Master: Search took 0.12 seconds: exFAT - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExFAT>; Extended FAT File System: <http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa914353.aspx>; OEM Parameter Definition with exFAT: <http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa914663.aspx>; Fun fact of the day: exFAT driver from Vista runs under XP and ...: (2 more messages)

21:51 <Tank_Master> &more

21:51 <Romulus> Tank_Master: <http://blog.tiensivu.com/aaron/archives/325-Fun-fact-of-the-day-exFAT-driver-from-Vista-runs-under-XP-and-2003.html>; Vista SP1 to Intro Backward Incompatible exFAT: <http://www.everythingusb.com/exfat_13261.html>; Microsoft's exFAT beta program begins recruiting participants ...: <http://www.aeroxp.org/board/index.php?showtopic=4976>; ExFAT , FAT 64, other filesystems - MSFN Forums: (1 more message)

21:51 <Tank_Master> &more

21:51 <Romulus> Tank_Master: <http://www.msfn.org/board/ExFAT-FAT-64-filesystems-t104525.html>; Digg - exFAT File System - aka FAT64: <http://digg.com/software/exFAT_File_System_aka_FAT64>; exFAT - File Management: <http://forums.techarena.in/showthread.php?t=505447>; What does (will) exFAT do in Vista SP1? - Notebook Forums and ...: <http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=174729>

21:51 <MTughan> Not WinFS anymore?

21:51 <Tank_Master> thats a differnt one

21:52 <Tank_Master> but techlaly an sgl engein add-on to NTFS

21:52 <Tank_Master> sql*

21:52 <MTughan> Really? Nice...

21:53 <Tank_Master> its mainly to help search for files

21:53 <Tank_Master> and extend the capibilitys of NTFS

21:53 <MTughan> Okay, that makes sense... Similar to journalling?

21:53 <Tank_Master> yeah

21:53 <Tank_Master> jusy more metadtat

21:54 <Tank_Master> and a much more efficent and powerfull program for searching

21:58 <Tank_Master> oh... kick @$$!

21:58 <Tank_Master> http://www.vr-zone.com/articles/Sharkoon_SATA_QuickPort_USB_Docking_Station/5432.html

21:58 <Romulus> <http://ln-s.net/1Fpr> (at www.vr-zone.com)

21:59 <MTughan> Dude...

21:59 <Tank_Master> thats sweet!

21:59 <Tank_Master> looks like it can take both 3.25" and 2.5" drives

21:59 <MTughan> It can. And that's 3.5" and 2.5".

22:00 <MTughan> That number has nothing to do with the hard drive in general, it's the diameter of the platter within.

22:01 <Tank_Master> ehh, same diff ;)

22:04 <xcamel> it would make more sense if the drives were turned 90 degrees and there were 4 slots

22:05 <Tank_Master> and to have more than one at a time...

22:05 <Tank_Master> yeah, that would be nice

22:05 <xcamel> instant portable backup system...

22:05 <xcamel> well... almost instant

22:06 <Tank_Master> what do you meen almost?

22:07 <MTughan> Oh gah... Missed mweltin by less than an hour...

22:07 <xcamel> if it was upped to USB3 then .... wow

22:07 <MTughan> About 50 minutes when I came back.

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22:08 <xcamel> still looks like a nice toy..

22:08 <xcamel> well... off with me...

22:08 <MTughan> Bye.

22:08 <Tank_Master> tc

22:08 <MTughan> Yeah, USB3 on that thing would be nice... Or eSATA.

22:09 <MTughan> Holy crap... New Apple store opening in NY, three stories!

22:09 <MTughan> Two levels for selling, third for support.

22:10 <PovAddict> USB3 is *insanely* fast

22:10 <MTughan> Optical.

22:10 <Tank_Master> what a wate of space

22:11 <MTughan> In this case, I agree with you.

22:11 <Tank_Master> yes, optical connections are nice ;)

22:11 <PovAddict> omg

22:11 <PovAddict> Tank_Master

22:11 <PovAddict> w.t.f.

22:11 <MTughan> ...

22:11 <PovAddict> a million credits lead?

22:11 <Tank_Master> ?

22:11 <PovAddict> your team is crazy

22:12 <Tank_Master> for RS?

22:12 <PovAddict> well, not yet

22:12 <PovAddict> 979660

22:12 <Tank_Master> close...

22:12 <Tank_Master> yeah, MAC is good to have on the team

22:12 <PovAddict> I don't have graphs but I have been keeping history

22:12 <Tank_Master> cool

22:12 <PovAddict> each time somebody loaded the script, current credits (and a timestamp) was added to a file

22:13 <Tank_Master> I havent heard anything about the french's responce to the quick pass

22:13 <MTughan> Oh, PovAddict: Did you see the errors we were having with TSP's GA?

22:13 <Tank_Master> GA?

22:13 <MTughan> Genetic algorithm.

22:13 <PovAddict> no

22:13 <Tank_Master> AMD Pushes Back Barcelona Ramp-Up to Q1 2008

22:13 <Tank_Master> man, AMD is really hurting

22:14 <MTughan> We were having undefined symbols. Turns out it was because the functions were declared as inline.

22:14 <MTughan> What does inline do anyway?

22:14 <PovAddict> it "hints" the compiler to inline them instead of calling them

22:14 <PovAddict> ie. like copy-paste the function contents each time it's called

22:15 <PovAddict> the compiler is free to ignore the hint, though

22:15 <MTughan> Which would you generally recommend? To inline them, or not?

22:15 <PovAddict> (it's also free to use its own algorithms to know when a function is worth inlining)

22:15 <Tank_Master> Windows Server 2008 RC1 can now be downloaded from Microsoft's Web site

22:15 <zombie67> how does USB3 compare to FW800?

22:15 <PovAddict> well, I'd say don't inline them to get it working fast

22:15 <MTughan> I don't know mweltin's reasons for inlining them.

22:15 <PovAddict> as in, get it working asap, then try to make it fast by inlining

22:16 <PovAddict> well, the RNG had those inline "by default", he didn't change them

22:16 <MTughan> Oh...

22:16 <PovAddict> MTughan: did you see this link? http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.219431

22:16 <Romulus> <http://ln-s.net/1FTx> (at discuss.joelonsoftware.com)

22:16 <MTughan> No, I didn't...

22:18 <zombie67> http://boincstats.com/stats/compare_graph.php?pr=rieselsieve&table=teams&id%5B%5D=476&id%5B%5D=447

22:18 <Romulus> <http://ln-s.net/1Fq8> (at boincstats.com)

22:18 <PovAddict> lol

22:21 <zombie67> http://boincstats.com/charts/chart_uk_wcg_object_new_teams_7049.gif

22:21 <Romulus> <http://ln-s.net/1Fq$> (at boincstats.com)

22:21 <MTughan> lol

22:22 <MTughan> PovAddict: Is there a way to commit multiple files to SVN? Just include multiple arguments?

22:22 <PovAddict> yes; in fact, no arguments means whole directory

22:22 <MTughan> Cool...

22:22 <PovAddict> (well, if you cd to a subdir, you commit only files in that subdir)

22:22 <PovAddict> so it's not really "whole working copy" from anywhere

22:22 <zombie67> http://boincstats.com/stats/user_graph.php?pr=wcg&id=227418

22:22 <Romulus> <http://ln-s.net/1Eg8> (at boincstats.com)

22:23 <Tank_Master> go you

22:23 <MTughan> Heh... http://boincstats.com/charts/chart_uk_wcg_object_new_users_227418.gif

22:23 <Romulus> <http://ln-s.net/1FqA> (at boincstats.com)

22:23 <Tank_Master> your not doing to bad in WCG

22:23 <PovAddict> zombie67: what's your ETA for 1 million?

22:23 <zombie67> at wcg?

22:24 <PovAddict> yeah

22:24 <zombie67> 500k/25k

22:24 <zombie67> 20 days

22:24 <PovAddict> ohh you're really close to 9 million combined

22:24 <zombie67> xmas

22:24 <Tank_Master> im just about over 6m

22:24 <Tank_Master> total

22:24 <zombie67> two mre days

22:26 <MTughan> What the? "svn: Aborting commit: '/Users/mtughan/boinc/tsp/src/GA/ga.cpp' remains in conflict"

22:26 <PovAddict> on the last update, you had modified it, and there were changes in svn too

22:26 <MTughan> I just did an update a few minutes ago...

22:27 <Tank_Master> http://www.newsday.com/media/flash/2007-11/33678461.swf

22:27 <Romulus> <http://ln-s.net/1FqB> (at www.newsday.com)

22:27 <MTughan> Still hasn't been modified on SVN.

22:27 <PovAddict> well, the problem could have happened long ago and you never did the merge

22:28 <PovAddict> you need to "resolve the conflict" by manually merging both changes (see ga.cpp.mine and ga.cpp.rNN where NN is the revision numbers)

22:28 <PovAddict> and doing "svn resolved <filename>" when you're done

22:28 <quail> now that was a great sandwich ;-)

22:28 <MTughan> Ah. I just reverted it and made my changes.

22:28 <MTughan> Still works fine.

22:29 <PovAddict> you could do "svn resolved" without even looking, but then there is the possibility that you end up "undoing" something mweltin did

22:29 <PovAddict> also, "three-way merge" is totally painful without a good graphical tool to do it

22:29 <MTughan> Hehe...

22:30 <MTughan> Well, we can tell mweltin when he comes that I've added a solution to the problem.

22:30 <PovAddict> undoing inline?

22:30 <MTughan> Whether we want to un-inline the functions.

22:30 <MTughan> ... is up to him.

22:30 <MTughan> No, I just made his function inline.

22:31 <PovAddict> well, if there are *lots* of random numbers being generated, it could be faster by inlining

22:31 <MTughan> Turns out that was the redefinition error when MersenneTwister.cpp was included.

22:31 <PovAddict> but if that function call is nowhere near a bottleneck, it's not worth the trouble

22:31 <zombie67> hi MT, any luck yet with RS app?

22:31 <Tank_Master> no

22:32 <MTughan> Right now, looks like it's called 10 times in quick succession.

22:32 <PovAddict> getters and setters in C++ classes are really good candidates for inlining, for example

22:32 <PovAddict> since the method body is a one-liner that *might* be called often

22:32 <MTughan> If you want to svn update, it's in MersenneTwister.cpp.

22:33 <PovAddict> inlining makes you lose all the function call overhead and the code is just as fast as if you were accessing the private members directly

22:33 <MTughan> / generates a random integetr vector with elemetns in teh range [0,size-1]

22:33 <MTughan> First slash was eliminated by IRC software...

22:33 <PovAddict> svn update in progress

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22:34 <Tank_Master> DOH!!!!

22:34 <zombie67> http://burp.boinc.dk//forum_thread.php?id=1004&nowrap=true#7097

22:34 <Romulus> <http://ln-s.net/1FqH> (at burp.boinc.dk)

22:35 <zombie67> of course

22:35 <zombie67> i posted that for pov

22:35 <Tank_Master> lol

22:37 <zombie67> brb

22:38 <Tank_Master> k

22:40 <zombie67> back

22:40 <zombie67> still split?

22:40 <Tank_Master> ya

22:40 <Tank_Master> at least MT and Pov are together still ;)

22:40 *** TheFons has joined #boinc

22:40 <zombie67> one

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22:45 <Tank_Master> there they are

22:45 <Tank_Master> @ pov

22:45 <Tank_Master> the memory for BURP should be in tomorrow

22:58 <Tank_Master> my its quiet

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23:03 <zombie67> http://burp.boinc.dk//forum_thread.php?id=1004&nowrap=true#7097

23:03 <Romulus> <http://ln-s.net/1FqH> (at burp.boinc.dk)

23:06 <MTughan> PovAddic1: There's your NickServ.

23:06 <MTughan> Still no mweltin... :(

23:07 <PovAddic1> leave him an irc memo?

23:07 <MTughan> His nick's not registered.

23:07 <PovAddic1> o rly

23:11 <PovAddic1> Tank_Master: ping

23:11 <PovAddic1> can anyone read me?

23:11 <zombie67> i can

23:11 <MTughan> Yep.

23:11 <zombie67> email always works

23:12 <PovAddic1> &ping

23:12 <PovAddic1> the log is weird

23:12 <Romulus> pong

23:12 <zombie67> I wonder how the log works with splits....which server is logged?

23:12 <Tank_Master> PovAddict: Pong

23:12 <PovAddic1> me and MTughan talking from after PovAddic1 joined isn't on the log

23:12 <PovAddic1> zombie67: whichever Romulus is left in

23:13 <PovAddic1> he (it?) is the one logging

23:13 <MTughan> Hey, Pov... "/Users/mtughan/mingwbuild/source/binutils-2.15.91-20040904-1/gas/config/tc-i386.h:457: error: array type has incomplete element type"

23:13 <Tank_Master> http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_sp1_wga.asp

23:13 <Romulus> <http://ln-s.net/1Fqn> (at www.winsupersite.com)

23:13 <MTughan> Line is "extern const struct relax_type md_relax_table[];"

23:13 <zombie67> is bot always on one server?  or does he drift from server to server?

23:14 <PovAddic1> the bot is just like any IRC user...

23:14 <PovAddic1> for example, if he reconnects, he may end up on a different server

23:14 *** PovAddict has quit IRC

23:15 <zombie67> so the bot is running on someone's host?  I assumed it was running on the server

23:17 <PovAddic1> it was about time you listened to me, nickserv

23:17 *** PovAddic1 is now known as PovAddict

23:19 <MTughan> Which server? ;)

23:19 *** Lupine1647 has quit IRC

23:19 <PovAddict> xcamel runs Romulus

23:20 <MTughan> All right, I'm off for some reading. Someone tell mweltin that SVN is updated with the fix when he gets here inevitably.

23:23 <zombie67> you dont have is email?

23:23 <zombie67> his?

23:23 <zombie67> email is best for asynchronous communication

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23:27 <Tank_Master> doh!

23:27 <Tank_Master> there they go again

23:27 <Tank_Master> a mass exitous

23:31 <zombie67> my redskins are just about to beat the bears!

23:31 <Tank_Master> good?

23:31 <zombie67> very good!

23:31 <zombie67> I am a DC boy

23:32 <Tank_Master> ohh

23:32 <Tank_Master> ok

23:33 <zombie67> w00t!  game ova

23:33 <Tank_Master> hehe

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23:34 <Tank_Master> and theyre back

23:34 <zombie67> changing machines.  brb

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23:55 <zombie67> again??

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