IRC logs of #boinc for Wednesday, 2008-03-12

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02:22 <mweltin> cfl you here?

02:24 <zombie67> mweltin!

02:24 <mweltin> zombie67!

02:24 <mweltin> hey

02:24 <zombie67> saw you added the new project to the prefs page

02:25 <zombie67> don't forget about adding it to the server status page too

02:25 <mweltin> yeah got a little ahead of my self.

02:25 <mweltin> hahaah I had forgot.

02:25 <mweltin> thanks zombie67

02:25 <zombie67> first question will be:  Hey!  I checked the box!  Why no work!?

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02:25 <zombie67> server status should help to quell that

02:26 <zombie67> FWIW, I have it checked.  ;)

02:26 <mweltin> nice

02:26 <flight16> BOINC

02:26 <flight16> Thank you Romulus.

02:26 <mweltin> now if I couldn't only figure out this Validator issue.

02:26 <flight16> Now fetch me a sandwich.

02:27 <zombie67> that is more up POVs alley

02:27 <zombie67> I am just a user

02:27 <zombie67> givin' you the user's perspective

02:28 <zombie67> your new project...what platforms?

02:29 <zombie67> you don't even join your own project?

02:29 <zombie67> project channel, I meant

02:30 <mweltin> of course I do

02:30 <zombie67> see you not, on #tsp

02:30 <mweltin> there are linux (32), windows (32), mac ppc and mac intel

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02:31 <zombie67> sweeeet

02:31 <mw_away> I'll be right back

02:31 <mw_away> went for a dive and need a shower.

02:34 <zombie67> TMI

02:37 <sethy> morning all

02:39 <zombie67> hi

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03:02 <sethy> some bad weather up here

03:03 <sethy> from what i can see on the main transport website almost half the trains have been cancelled due to severe weather

03:03 <sethy> unluckily not mine

03:04 <sethy>

03:04 <Romulus> <> (at

03:11 <mw_away> hey how to I stop someone form using my nick?

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03:13 <zombie67> you need to register it

03:13 <zombie67>

03:13 <Romulus> Title: freenode: frequently-asked questions (at

03:14 <sethy> or simply tipe /msg nickserb help register

03:14 <sethy> s/tipe/type

03:14 <zombie67> another benefit of registering, you can PM

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03:14 <zombie67> the online help is crap

03:14 <zombie67> bad/wrong instructions

03:15 <sethy> nickserv not nickserb

03:15 <sethy> my typing today is sucky

03:15 <sethy> i blame the weather

03:15 <zombie67> took me several hours to learn that

03:15 <sethy> nickserv?

03:16 <zombie67> yeah, online help does not match web docs

03:16 <sethy> better off asking someone actually on irc to help you xD

03:16 <zombie67> yep

03:16 <zombie67> that was my final solution

03:17 <sethy> and ubuntu doesnt want to load gnome....

03:17 <sethy> well it has, just not all of it

03:17 <sethy> anyonw know what the shortcut to bring up the terminal is?

03:19 <zombie67> /bin/csh

03:20 <sethy> could not find /bin/csh

03:21 <sethy> anyway time for college, i'll see if it wants to work on their comps

03:21 <zombie67> later

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03:33 <seth_afk> last minute cancelation

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03:56 <sethy> ttylinux is small

03:56 <sethy> 43.7MB torrent

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04:21 <CoderForLife> morning any/all

04:27 <CoderForLife> PovAddixt:,2933,336750,00.html

04:27 <Romulus> <> (at

04:27 <CoderForLife> ugh

04:27 <ELGono> moo don

04:27 <CoderForLife> PovAddict

04:28 <Romulus> i mean the actual ones...

04:28 <CoderForLife> hello ELGono =)

04:28 * CoderForLife inspects his keyboard to see why the X key moved

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04:30 <ELGono> hehe beware of the gnome

04:31 <ELGono> althought i always prefered gnome, not kde

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04:37 <ELGono>

04:37 <Romulus> Title: RIA Novosti - World - S.Korea switches ISS mission astronauts over alleged violations (at

04:39 <CoderForLife> Gnome appears to be threatening

04:40 <CoderForLife> at least to Argentinians

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04:50 <CoderForLife> iiiieee - hunger - brb with breakfast

04:54 <sethy> there is a gamers version of ubuntu on linuxtracker

04:55 <sethy> 5.8GB

05:02 <CoderForLife> hello sethy

05:02 <sethy> hello CoderForLife

05:05 * CoderForLife munches on breakfast while studying compiler messages

05:06 * CoderForLife then munches on compiler messages while studying breakfast

05:07 <sethy> isnt that a little... death defying...

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05:12 <CoderForLife> I can only juggle these two things at once - please don't toss me the knife, chainsaw or cat

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05:51 <xcamel_away> boo

05:59 * KathrynM is back (gone 06:22:08)

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06:11 <CoderForLife> off to w@#%

06:11 <Romulus> I'm not so much here United Kingdom tight on Firearms

06:11 <CoderForLife> bye-bye

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08:40 <wdsmia_w> &weather 50319

08:40 <Romulus> wdsmia_w: The current temperature in Drake Neighborhood, Des Moines, Iowa is 35.4F (7:39 AM CDT on March 12, 2008). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 32.0F. Windchill: 35.6F. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010.0 hPa (Falling).

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08:46 <clusty> KathrynM, your turn

08:46 <KathrynM> I've got one game in front of you :)

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08:47 <clusty> meaning?

08:47 <KathrynM> your turn

08:47 <KathrynM> I'm playing multiple games :)

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08:49 <clusty> there

08:50 <KathrynM> go

08:55 <clusty> done

08:57 <KathrynM> go

09:02 <clusty> go

09:03 <clusty> yeeeeyy

09:03 <clusty> seg fault is fixed....

09:03 <clusty> yeppie

09:03 <KathrynM> your turn

09:03 <clusty> was haunting me for a day already

09:03 <KathrynM> and I'm going to bed after I dig out another box of kleenex

09:04 <KathrynM> that was fun

09:04 <KathrynM> thanks for the game

09:04 <KathrynM> i'll catch up to you in the AM

09:04 <clusty> aloha

09:16 * KathrynM is away: I may still exist in an alternate reality...

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10:59 <hawmps> re-hi

11:00 <wdsmia_w> *lo Jay

11:01 <wdsmia_w> got to go reboot a library handler biab

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11:22 <hawmps> grrrr...

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13:39 * CoderForLife lingers in an alternate reality, where compilers silently align data structures on 4-byte boundaries

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14:17 <hawmps> spitzer out as of monday..

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14:52 <CoderForLife> The expression "Spitzer Effect" now has new meaning.

14:55 <hawmps> I have passed around more than a few "I told you so's"

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15:25 <mweltin> If I update my windows client, is that  an update, or is that a reinstall?

15:26 <PovAddict> you definitely don't lose in-progress work

15:27 <mweltin> I don't so much care about that just curious if I need to uninstall the old client first.

15:28 <PovAddict> ah I don't think so

15:28 <PovAddict> "not necessary but not harmful"

15:28 <PovAddict> (if you uninstall the client, you won't lose work either)

15:33 <mweltin> so with void pointers passed to functions, do I have to keep casting it to what I want everytime I use it?

15:33 <mweltin> the init_results function gets void*& data as an argument.

15:33 <PovAddict> yes...

15:33 <mweltin> for me to use it I have to .........ok

15:35 <mweltin> are teh screen savers made with wxWidgets ?

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15:36 <PovAddict> huh

15:36 <PovAddict> no, OpenGL

15:36 <PovAddict> wxWidgets is for GUIs like the manager

15:38 <mweltin> cool

15:52 * xcamel_away is back.

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15:52 <xcamel> re-hi

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16:41 <CoderForLife> home again

16:42 <xcamel> wb

16:42 <xcamel> bbiab..

16:46 <CoderForLife> thx

16:53 <CoderForLife> pretty APOD today

16:55 <mweltin> If I have the correct url in my get_project_config.php where is the scheduler request server?

16:56 <mweltin> I'm on a local network and set up my server for "localhost" and now I want another computer to attache to it, so I changed all references of localhost to my internal IP

16:56 <mweltin> but I still get an err 3/12/2008 9:54:07 AM|Traveling salesman problem|Scheduler request failed: Couldn't connect to server

16:56 <PovAddict> html/user/schedulers.txt?

16:59 <mweltin> thats a little odd, why the separate file?

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17:00 <mweltin> big Z

17:00 <mweltin> hello

17:00 <zombie67> howdie

17:01 <zombie67> I just ran some RS and some SETI (stock) on the same machine.  It is a dual Xeon X5355 (2.66ghz, 8-way).

17:02 <zombie67> I have 4 RS and 11 SETI results so far.  SETI awards 14.96 c/h, RS awards 18.69 c/h....or 1.25x SETI

17:02 <PovAddict> somebody on #rieselsieve *admitted* there is a credit multiplier in the server

17:02 <PovAddict> although I don't think it's 4x

17:02 <Tank_Master> so no cerdit manipulation needed

17:03 <PovAddict> but credit inflation is definitely true

17:03 <Tank_Master> according to DA's proposal anyway

17:03 <zombie67> I can only provide my results...1.25x SETI, not 4.6x

17:04 <zombie67> on RS, claimed credit for all 4 is 528.26.  granted is 5.44

17:04 <zombie67> no a LOT of difference

17:04 <zombie67> granted are awarded fixed at 136.

17:04 <zombie67> sorry, i meant 544, not 5.44

17:05 <zombie67> three claimed under, one claimed over.  It was about a was in the end

17:06 <zombie67> I am going to let it run for another day, so I can get more results.  Then I will make it available for anyone to review

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17:06 <bryanUC_> zombie67: thanks for the info, that's very interesting

17:06 <bryanUC_> PovAddict: just to verify, there's not a *formal* credit multiplier....we just have a target that we try to hover at, which may be/is higher than SETI

17:07 <mweltin> I'm still getting the same Scheduler reqeust failed: Couldn't connect to server.  I verified that everythign is running well,  and all url in config.xml and scheduler.txt have been updated.  How can I tell where the client is looking for the scheduler?  I have detached and reattached with no change.

17:07 <Romulus> need some left to understand what in bloody earth he wrote

17:07 <PovAddict> <- zombie67 check that out

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17:08 <zombie67> yep

17:13 <zombie67> Also, this is a dual xeon machine, so no OC hankie pankie possible

17:14 <xcamel> blah

17:15 <CoderForLife> 55F outside and sunny, 71F in my office with no heat on - "solar gain"

17:18 <zombie67> Here are the preliminary results.  I will update this spreadsheet tomorrow with more results tomorrow.

17:19 <zombie67>  filename:  SETI_vs_RS.xls

17:19 <zombie67> give it a sec to upload

17:20 <PovAddict> did anyone look at my credits.txt file?

17:21 <mweltin> ok so in my boinc client dir on windows I have a sched_request_192.168.1.108_tsp.xml file which seems correct, and  but the sched_reply_192.168.1.108_tsp.xml file is empty.  My master_192.168.1.108_tsp.xml has the old scheduler url????

17:21 <PovAddict> mweltin: the client doesn't re-download the master file often

17:21 <PovAddict> try reattaching

17:21 <PovAddict> or maybe reset is enough

17:22 <zombie67> I did

17:22 <zombie67> there is no good way to deal with optimization

17:22 <Romulus> tired. long day at work

17:22 <PovAddict> other way around: there is no good way to keep cross-project parity

17:22 <mweltin> what do you mean zombie67?

17:22 <PovAddict> mweltin: credits

17:22 <zombie67>

17:23 <mweltin> sorry I asked

17:23 <PovAddict> lol

17:23 <zombie67> yeah.  ignore it, keep under the radar, you'll be fine

17:23 <zombie67> pov, did you see yoyo's email about it?

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17:24 <mweltin> that is exactly what has happened to me, twice

17:25 <mweltin> Crunch3r did the STLport

17:25 <zombie67> it's still outrageous that DA is asking for credit reduction, but not the reverse for under-awarding projects

17:25 <mweltin> and another guy did some code mods that blew crunch3r's mods out of the water.

17:26 <zombie67> and requiring the stat sites to be the bad-guys...  That's just stupid.  why would a site want to drive traffic to OTHER stat sites that don't play along?

17:26 <zombie67> ha!

17:26 <zombie67> that's funny

17:26 <mweltin> credits are BS way more trouble than they are worth.  Porjects should use other insentives.  Liek the primeGrid I hear they will name a prime number after you if you find it.

17:27 <PovAddict> argh

17:27 <PovAddict> my screensaver app still depends on zlib1.dll

17:27 <PovAddict> I managed to get rid of the other dll dependencies by statically linking; but I'm not linking to zlib correctly yet

17:28 <PovAddict> &math convert 10 inches to cm

17:28 <Romulus> PovAddict: 25.4

17:28 <mweltin> now it thinks my project is down. 3/12/2008 10:21:04 AM||Access to reference site succeeded - project servers may be temporarily down.

17:29 <PovAddict> mweltin: enable http_debug

17:29 <PovAddict> &bw ClientMessages

17:29 <Romulus>

17:29 <PovAddict> CoderForLife: that's a lotta snow

17:29 <PovAddict> 25cm

17:29 <CoderForLife> that's on the table after it melted a bit

17:30 <CoderForLife> the driveway had 12"

17:30 <PovAddict> :o

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17:30 <PovAddict> MTughan: still got your snowed-trampoline image around? :)

17:31 <MTughan> should be it.

17:31 <Romulus> <> (at

17:31 <CoderForLife> I'm off to the Coding Couch - my old 16-bit Code is becoming happy in it's new 32-bit home

17:31 <MTughan> Hold on, I've got a newer one...

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17:31 <PovAddict> CoderForLife: make sure it's 64-bit compatible :)

17:31 <Tank_Master> :P

17:32 <PovAddict> gah... still can't get rid of zlib

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17:33 <MTughan> And of course, X goes off and crashes... >_>

17:33 <CoderForLife> I will eventually

17:33 * CoderForLife slides down the bannister

17:33 <PovAddict> does anyone know what tool to use to see shared libary dependencies?

17:34 <CoderForLife> Windows -> depends

17:34 <PovAddict> I'm currently searching for /[a-z0-9]\.dll/ in the .exe file :)

17:34 <CoderForLife> Linux -> ?

17:34 <DerMeister> Linux: ldd

17:34 <DerMeister> Windows: dependency walker

17:34 <zombie67> ldd

17:34 <PovAddict> Windows but unix-like dev environment

17:35 <zombie67> ah, beat me

17:35 <PovAddict> no ldd :(

17:35 <Romulus> the paid version gets you somewhat-newer code and technical support

17:35 <PovAddict> I have nm and objdump

17:35 <zombie67> what linux do you have, that doesn't have ldd?

17:35 <PovAddict> Windows

17:35 <MTughan>

17:35 <PovAddict> a bash shell on Windows, with unix-like build tools :)

17:35 <Romulus> <> (at

17:36 <zombie67> nice!

17:36 <PovAddict> pic loading

17:36 <MTughan> Nice at Windows or the snow?

17:36 <Tank_Master> snow! I want snow!

17:37 <MTughan> There, Enter key is back now...

17:38 <MTughan> When X crashed, I hit my keyboard hard enough that I knocked the spring wire under the Enter key loose... :P

17:38 <zombie67> snow!

17:38 <zombie67> I have the new flat mac keyboard

17:38 <MTughan> I think Quebec City has hit 540cm fallen over the winter now...

17:38 <MTughan> &math convert 540 centimetres to feet

17:38 <Romulus> MTughan: Error: centimetres is not a valid unit.

17:38 <zombie67> i love it

17:38 <MTughan> &math convert 540 cm to feet

17:38 <Romulus> MTughan: 17.7165354331

17:39 <MTughan> Maybe not that much... But it's a lot.

17:39 <PovAddict> centimeters

17:39 <zombie67> I am a fan of laptop keybard scissor action.  very shallow stroke.  This mac keyboard is exactly that

17:39 <MTughan> Centimetres is the Canadian way.

17:39 <PovAddict> centimeters is the Romulus way

17:39 <MTughan> It's the bad centimetres then.

17:40 <MTughan> Oh, and more ice pellets predicted for tomorrow.

17:40 <zombie67> bbl

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17:41 <MTughan> Ah, here's what I was thinking of...

17:41 <Romulus> <> (at

17:41 <mweltin> it;s still trying to go tot 3/12/2008 10:40:59 AM||[http_debug] HTTP_OP::init_post():

17:42 <MTughan> 460 cm of snow over the winter.

17:42 <PovAddict> mweltin: tried reset/reattach?

17:42 <MTughan> &math convert 460 cm to feet

17:42 <Romulus> MTughan: 15.0918635171

17:42 <mweltin> and why on earth dose the boinc client try to connect ot ?

17:43 <MTughan> Tank_Master: You sure you want this snow?

17:43 <MTughan> Read this:

17:43 <Romulus> <> (at

17:43 <PovAddict> mweltin: to see if your internet connection works

17:43 <Soul_keeper> I WIN !!!

17:43 <MTughan> "Snow rage leads Quebec City man to brandish shotgun at snow-removal worker: cops"

17:43 <PovAddict> Soul_keeper: the lottery?

17:43 <Soul_keeper> i wish

17:43 <PovAddict> :)

17:43 <Soul_keeper> i just try to stay delushional then i'm never a loser

17:43 <MTughan> &ping

17:43 <Romulus> pong

17:43 <MTughan> Oh, so I'm just being ignored...

17:44 <xcamel> &ding

17:44 <Romulus> DONG!

17:44 <PovAddict> yup :)

17:44 <mweltin> its fialing ot download the apps, its trying to get them form 127

17:44 <PovAddict> ah the APPS

17:44 <MTughan> Someone threatening a snow worker with a shotgun isn't interesting enough for anyone?

17:44 <PovAddict> I read that already MTughan

17:44 <MTughan> Maybe you did, but everyone else?

17:45 <PovAddict> mweltin:

17:45 <mweltin> dl, ul. and mater url are correct in the config.xml file

17:45 <PovAddict> app download URLs are on the database

17:46 <mweltin> up ther eit is

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17:46 <mweltin> yup there it is

17:46 * CoderOnTheCouch looks around

17:46 <mweltin> so make a new workunit and all should be well ?

17:46 * xcamel hides

17:46 <PovAddict> mweltin: make a new *app version*, or tweak DB manually

17:47 <mweltin> no that wont work

17:47 <mweltin> yeah there we go

17:47 <mweltin> ok

17:47 <MTughan> CoderOnTheCouch: Two things for you.

17:47 <CoderOnTheCouch>

17:47 <Romulus> Title: Dependency Walker (depends.exe) Home Page (at

17:47 <MTughan> 1)

17:47 <Romulus> <> (at

17:47 <MTughan> 2)

17:47 <Romulus> <> (at

17:47 <PovAddict> CoderOnTheCouch++

17:49 <mweltin> wow now this is a pain in the ass.

17:49 <mweltin> If I made a suggestion to boinc developers I would ask to simplify this process.

17:49 <Romulus> i'm not pro in this list

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17:54 <wdsmia> re-hi

17:55 <CoderOnTheCouch> hey

17:56 <xcamel> 'lo Doug

17:57 <wdsmia> hate it when your walking out the door and they deside to call a last minute meeting

17:57 <mweltin> man that generats a lot of messages

17:58 <mweltin> that is why you run for the door with headphones on. duhhhh

17:59 <wdsmia> you still have to get past the armed trooper at the front door

18:00 <mweltin> geee where do you work? starbucks or something?

18:00 <wdsmia> yea somthing like that

18:00 <PovAddict> lol

18:01 <MTughan> PovAddict: Your debt page is broken.

18:01 <MTughan>

18:01 <Romulus> Title: Debt tweaking (at

18:01 <PovAddict> BOINC XML is broken

18:01 <PovAddict> there is an unescaped &

18:01 <MTughan> So no surprise then.

18:03 <mweltin> well I can see the apps in the transfer page but they are not downloading they are waiting to retry, and if I update the project it doesn't reset the retry timer.

18:04 <mweltin> ahhh

18:04 <mweltin> retry now button

18:09 *** siofwolves has quit IRC

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18:10 <zombie67> I'm back, baby!  -Bender

18:14 <xcamel> as chode kicks him..

18:14 <mweltin> ok PovAddict one more piece of the puzzle, the app and wrapper download fine as well as the job.xml file, but the file associated with the workunit my "instance" file doesn't download.

18:15 <PovAddict> same problem; see your database, URL for instance file is probably

18:15 <mweltin> am I  boned ?

18:15 <mweltin> ok

18:15 <PovAddict> edit DB, or cancel those workunits and make new ones (if you have URLs set right on config.xml, new ones would work)

18:17 * CoderOnTheCouch tests his re-born scanner

18:18 <PovAddict> I'm running a dozen instances of upx at once

18:18 * wdsmia is changing out switch brb... I hope

18:18 <PovAddict> trying to see which settings get me the smallest file

18:18 *** wdsmia has quit IRC

18:19 <PovAddict> more like two dozen

18:19 <PovAddict> all done, finally

18:21 <DerMeister> Does this really pay off?

18:21 <PovAddict> what?

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18:23 <wdsmia> seems like the 8 port 10/100 switch I found in the junk bin still works

18:24 <DerMeister> PovAddict: packing executables with upx

18:24 <PovAddict> 600064 ->    192512   32.08%

18:25 <PovAddict> and 0.094 seconds taken to decompress it

18:25 <PovAddict> (against 46 seconds to compress!)

18:25 <mweltin> grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

18:26 <mweltin> by the time I fixed hte data base hte WU was cancled by boinc for too many errors.

18:26 <mweltin> hahahaha

18:26 <mweltin> ok gotta take a break

18:26 <mweltin> bbl

18:26 <mweltin> thanks again Pov, big help as always.

18:27 <DerMeister> PovAddict: as far as I know some "firewalls" or anti virus programs don't like executables compressed with upx...

18:28 <PovAddict> the upx license is made specifically for that: to make sure antivirus software can decompress any upx'd program

18:28 <PovAddict> if some antivirus marks any upx'd program as being dangerous, get a better one :)

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18:34 <DerMeister> PovAddict: Well, I didn't have such problems yet... Just heard of this...

18:35 <PovAddict> 32% of original looks like a good saving

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18:59 <xcamel> &weather 12074

19:00 <Romulus> xcamel: The current temperature in West Side Galway, Galway, New York is 34.2F (6:59 PM EDT on March 12, 2008). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 56%. Dew Point: 19.4F. Windchill: 28.4F. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010.0 hPa (Falling).

19:00 <wdsmia> &weather 50265

19:00 <Romulus> wdsmia: The current temperature in West Des Moines, Iowa is 58.6F (5:59 PM CDT on March 12, 2008). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 9%. Dew Point: -0.4F. Pressure: 28.63 in 969.4 hPa (Steady).

19:02 <wdsmia> 9% Humidity? thats wrong

19:02 <PovAddict> &weather buenos aires

19:02 <Romulus> PovAddict: Error: HTTP Error 500: Server Error

19:02 * PovAddict kicks the weather plugin

19:03 * xcamel kicks PovAddict

19:03 <wdsmia> &weather 50319

19:03 <Romulus> wdsmia: The current temperature in Drake Neighborhood, Des Moines, Iowa is 58.6F (6:03 PM CDT on March 12, 2008). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 52%. Dew Point: 41.0F. Pressure: 29.60 in 1002.3 hPa (Steady).

19:07 <wdsmia> wow 111,625 ready to send

19:07 <PovAddict> what project?

19:07 <Romulus> Somebody said what project are we talking about, PovAddict

19:07 <wdsmia> LHC

19:07 <PovAddict> !

19:09 <xcamel> they have to up the limits a bit..

19:09 <PovAddict> 12/03/2008 21:07:00|lhcathome|Message from server: Not sending work - last request too recent: 785 sec

19:09 <PovAddict> AGH

19:09 <Romulus> is away: Gone away for now.

19:13 <xcamel> damn.. they crash

19:14 <PovAddict> I'm tempted to do the hostid hack

19:14 <PovAddict> but my host CPIDs will get even more split than they are already...

19:14 <wdsmia> 45 min the clock will reset

19:15 * KathrynM is back (gone 09:58:03)

19:15 <PovAddict> just got two tasks

19:15 <PovAddict> only two :/

19:15 <wdsmia> yep 2 is the download limit

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19:16 *** PovAddic1 is now known as PovAddict

19:19 <DerMeister> At the moment I have 6 wus from lhc :)

19:20 <DerMeister> And three little spiders :)

19:26 *** DerMeister has quit IRC

19:28 <wdsmia> at the moment I have a few hundred LHC wu's and want more :)

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19:51 <CoderOnTheCouch> hmm?

19:51 <CoderOnTheCouch> ok

19:52 <PovAddict> hey efc

19:54 <xcamel> wb

19:56 <CoderOnTheCouch> I'm going to fold up my Coding tent for the evening - great progress today

19:56 <CoderOnTheCouch> cya folks

19:57 <wdsmia> cya Don

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19:57 <PovAddict> efc: any experience with arbitrary-precision integer calculations?

19:59 * KathrynM is away: I may still exist in an alternate reality...

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20:11 <efc> Moo

20:11 <efc> Well, I've read about them and studied some, but not actually used much if any

20:11 <efc> Precision on which side of the decimal?

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20:29 <Tank_Master> heya EFC

20:29 <efc> moo

20:34 <PovAddict> efc: I said integers :)

20:34 <efc> sometimes people mean big rational numbers when they say that

20:35 <efc> (Which GMP will do also)

20:35 <PovAddict> GMP seems overkill for my needs

20:35 <PovAddict> (and a pain to compile)

20:35 <PovAddict> I need to multiply together a 100000-digit number and a 12-digit number, and get their decimal digits

20:38 <PovAddict> the 100000-digit number is 2^333333, the other number changes

20:39 <efc> Hmm, well in binary the answer is pretty easy...

20:39 <PovAddict> 333333 may change... in some months...

20:39 <PovAddict> but the base will always be 2

20:41 <efc> I think extracting the digits will generally require working on the whole product at once

20:42 <efc> If you are willing to use Java I think it has simple BigNum support. Smalltalk does too.

20:42 <PovAddict> not a problem, even at one byte per decimal digit (ie. not even storing it in an efficient binary format) would only use 100KB of memory

20:42 <PovAddict> and this is all C++

20:45 <PovAddict> so in summary, I need the decimal digits of k*2^n, where n is currently 333333, and k changes all the time; I could pre-calculate 2^n and send it along with the app so that all I have to do in the code is the multiplication and the to-ascii conversion

20:46 <efc> Yes, I suppose you can implement your own grade-school multiplier, it will be slow, but probably wont matter

20:47 <PovAddict> maybe yeah...

20:48 <efc> There are some alternative techniques but much more trouble

20:51 <PovAddict> hmm

20:52 <PovAddict> for such a big number, if I use the grade-school multiplier method, won't it need a stupid amount of memory?

20:52 <PovAddict> doesn't it need digits^2 memory?

20:54 <Soul_keeper> just ordered new pc parts :)

20:54 <PovAddict> ah not really... I can just sum as I go...

20:55 <Soul_keeper> i spent most my money on "bells and whistles" rather than mem or cpu power tho ...

20:57 <Soul_keeper> thru down 700 bones

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20:59 <efc> its quadratic running time but thats not a real big deal

20:59 *** PovAddict has quit IRC

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20:59 <PovAddict> I'll find out if it's a big deal or not...

21:00 <efc> you're just doing this once, I assume

21:00 <PovAddict> nope, for each different k

21:00 <efc> if you want it to be fast, its going to stink

21:01 * Soul_keeper notices the absense of comment

21:01 <efc> can speed it up a bit by just multiplying the big num by each digit (0-9) and then doing all adds after that but asymptotically its not helping much

21:02 <PovAddict> I guess I just didn't expect a multiplication to be so slow, I didn't really think much about it

21:06 <efc> If you are doing lots of work with the results, it might not matter so much

21:06 <xcamel> >> Not Your Father's Ukrainian Army

21:06 <xcamel>

21:06 <Romulus> <> (at

21:06 <xcamel> where do I sign up?

21:06 <efc> nice thing with GMP, it uses faster algorithms than the grade school one, though I'm not sure they'll help much with mismatched sizes like that

21:07 <efc> But it will use 32 or 64 bit "limbs" instead of essentially 2.5 bit limbs for single decimal digits

21:07 <efc> and then your squaring a much smallter number of limbs, and its even better

21:07 <efc> but you do have a more expensive conversion back to decimal. Probably worth it though.

21:08 <efc> Gotta get going, will be on later

21:08 <PovAddict> well gmp is indeed fast

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21:08 <PovAddict>*2^323333 (I can't use 333333, the web thingy is limited to 100k digits of output)

21:08 <Romulus> <> (at

21:09 <PovAddict> there's probably a faster way for my case where the big number is a power of two...

21:14 <Soul_keeper> that's right

21:15 <PovAddict> if I take 36201077805 and bitshift it 333333 times, I get the result :)

21:16 <PovAddict> then the problem is just the conversion to decimal

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21:41 <PovAddict> GMP takes 0.047s to do both operations

21:42 <PovAddict> 36201077805*2^333333

21:48 <Soul_keeper> i interpret your silence as admission that i'm the greatest btw

21:50 * Tank_Master slaps Soul_keeper around a bit with a large trout

21:55 * xcamel is away: Gone away for now.

21:55 *** xcamel is now known as xcamel_away

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22:17 <Al2O3_> The following teams match one or more of your search criteria. To join a team, click its name to go to the team page, then click Join this team.

22:17 <Al2O3_> I don't see "Join this team" on the linked team page.

22:17 <Al2O3_> any assistance would be helpful.

22:19 <Tank_Master> you click on the team name

22:19 <Tank_Master> that will go to another page

22:19 <Tank_Master> on that page is the link to join

22:19 <Al2O3_> not todya.

22:19 <Tank_Master> which project?

22:19 <Romulus> I guess which project are you with, Tank_Master

22:19 <Al2O3_> have friend who is sitting next to me trying ot join my team.

22:19 <PovAddict> Description

22:19 <PovAddict> Total credit

22:19 <PovAddict> Recent average credit

22:19 <PovAddict> Country

22:19 <Al2O3_> we search for the team 'dennat' as the string, and then click on DENNAT Automation, and nothing is there to join.

22:19 <PovAddict> Type

22:19 <PovAddict> and the link to join!

22:19 <Al2O3_> SETI@Home

22:20 <Al2O3_> had not problem joining my own, or having others join mine until now.

22:20 <Al2O3_> weird.

22:20 <Tank_Master> are you sure you compleated the creatin process for the team?

22:20 <Al2O3_> dead end link.

22:20 <PovAddict> Al2O3_: a possible reason why the link isn't there: he's already a member

22:20 <Al2O3_> yes, have others in my team.

22:20 <Al2O3_> he isn't.

22:20 <Al2O3_> have 2 members, me and a friend, this other guy is not in the team.

22:20 <Al2O3_> I thought of that already, and asked him if he was a member of another team even.

22:20 <Al2O3_> this is weird.

22:20 <Tank_Master> ok, the just copy the link for the team page and give that to him

22:20 <Romulus> zombie67: Who/what do you have teh power

22:21 <Tank_Master> he need to have credit to snow

22:21 <Tank_Master> credits after joining

22:21 <PovAddict> Al2O3_: if he goes to

22:21 <Romulus> Title: Please log in (at

22:22 <PovAddict> there's a box on the right saying "Community"

22:22 <Al2O3_>

22:22 <Romulus> Title: Please log in (at

22:22 <PovAddict> does it mention anything related to teams there?

22:22 <Al2O3_> I show not a box, but a list of links above the open fields for email address, password, check box for staying logged on and llogin button.

22:23 <PovAddict> then login! :)

22:23 <Al2O3_>

22:23 <Romulus> <> (at

22:23 <Al2O3_> I'm logged in.

22:23 <Al2O3_> already a long time ago.

22:23 <Al2O3_> he is also

22:23 <PovAddict> if you see fields for email address, password, check box for staying logged on and llogin button, you are NOT logged in

22:23 <Al2O3_> ok.

22:24 <PovAddict> and if you're not logged in, you don't see a "join" link :)

22:24 <Tank_Master> that link to the team you just posted?

22:24 <Al2O3_> :)

22:24 <Al2O3_> you rock

22:24 <Tank_Master> give hin that link

22:24 <PovAddict> Tank_Master: he wasn't logged in :)

22:24 <Al2O3_> doing now in chat

22:24 <Tank_Master> and if he can join from there

22:24 <Tank_Master> when you click to join, it goes to the login page

22:25 <PovAddict> Tank_Master: no, if you're not logged in, the join link isn't there at all

22:25 <PovAddict> try

22:25 <Tank_Master> if you arent already lodded in

22:25 <PovAddict> logout and go to a team page

22:25 <Tank_Master> has that changed?

22:25 <Tank_Master> didnt use to work that way

22:25 <Al2O3_> he's bringing up chat now, I'll past URL To him, and then we'll get him logged in officially.  Apparently the client for OS X BOINC allows you to see his personal and team search pages without being logged in?

22:25 <Al2O3_> seems odd

22:25 <Al2O3_> I don't remember it being a problem before now.

22:26 <PovAddict> the website has no idea what's going on with the client

22:26 <Al2O3_> ok

22:26 <Al2O3_> makes sense.

22:26 <PovAddict> and definitely there aren't platform differences with the website :)

22:26 <Al2O3_> :)

22:26 <Al2O3_> POV, you are a godsend

22:26 <Al2O3_> or a send to god

22:26 <Al2O3_> :)

22:27 <Tank_Master> heh

22:28 <Tank_Master> to bad theres not a return to sender ;)

22:30 <Tank_Master> so I take it it is working now?

22:34 * KathrynM is back (gone 02:35:34)

22:34 <Tank_Master> wb

22:34 <KathrynM> thx

22:35 <KathrynM> longish lunch today

22:35 <Tank_Master> :)

22:49 <Al2O3_> ok, he seems to have joined, but now it shows 3 members but when clicking on view of the members, only lists 2, maybe there is a time to update :)

22:49 <Al2O3_> who knows, but thanks for your help!

22:50 <Al2O3_> clearly we needed to login where the client app on our systems doesn't do that for us automatically.

23:42 * KathrynM is away: I may still exist in an alternate reality...

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