00:07 <MTughan> Kathryn didn't stay for very long, did she?
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00:20 <MTughan> Uh...
00:20 <MTughan> &explosm
00:20 <MTughan> I suppose I should expect this type of stuff from Explosm, but still...
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04:43 <CoderForLife> anybody home?
04:43 <Romulus> The Sparcs have had a 20 min job max
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05:02 <CoderForLife> breakfast time - brb
05:14 * KathrynM is back (gone 05:31:44)
05:15 <CoderForLife> morning KathrynM
05:15 <KathrynM> ugh
05:15 <KathrynM> at least tomorrow is friday
05:16 <CoderForLife> There's that Cleveland Indian coming out in you again
05:16 <KathrynM> lol
05:16 * CoderForLife carefully inspects the calendar
05:17 <CoderForLife> a-yup
05:17 * KathrynM contemplates the state of the refrigerator
05:17 * KathrynM wishes she had enough cash to call out for pizza
05:17 <CoderForLife> open the window and call out "I want pizza!"
05:18 <KathrynM> alas there's noone to bring it
05:18 <KathrynM> they all seem to want money in exchange
05:18 <KathrynM> I've got the stuff to make chicken and spinach tacos.
05:18 <KathrynM> What I lack is the energy.
05:18 <CoderForLife> capitalism...
05:18 <CoderForLife> what you lack is capital
05:19 <KathrynM> that too
05:19 <CoderForLife> I suspect that chicken and spinach are not like peanut butter and chocolate
05:20 <KathrynM> I'd much rather pb & choco. But I'm lacking both of those right now.
05:21 <CoderForLife> you are indeed needy
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05:21 <KathrynM> that I am
05:21 <kutio> Anyone knows if there exists a project which the goal is to brute force hash password ?
05:21 <kutio> on grid ?
05:23 <KathrynM> To actually break passwords?
05:23 <kutio> break hash
05:23 <CoderForLife> sounds evil
05:24 <kutio> no sounds useful
05:24 <Romulus> Title: SHA-1 Collision Search Graz (at boinc.iaik.tugraz.at)
05:24 <KathrynM> There used to be one called "Hash Clash" but it's retired
05:24 <KathrynM> And I thought there was another, but I don't remember what it was.
05:24 <kutio> this project search colission on the SHA-1 algorithm
05:25 <KathrynM> those are the only ones in that general area, sorry
05:25 <kutio> ok thanks
05:26 <CoderForLife> usefully evil
05:26 <kutio> I've sounded that it existed but I don't know what's is the name for this project
05:26 <kutio> I know they have an irc server
05:26 <kutio> s/what's/what
05:35 <clusty> KathrynM, damn youre good
05:35 <KathrynM> huh?
05:35 <clusty> word worth 33
05:35 <KathrynM> ah
05:36 <KathrynM> my co-workers are kicking my butt
05:36 <clusty> and I have 5 times the letter I
05:36 <clusty> :D
05:36 <clusty> WTF am I to do with all these
05:36 <KathrynM> lol
05:36 <KathrynM> swap letters?
05:37 <KathrynM> you can use one of them
05:37 <KathrynM> see where ate and test cross?
05:37 <clusty> yah
05:37 <KathrynM> you can put one of the I's by the two t's
05:37 <KathrynM> not very helpful tho :)
05:37 <Romulus> maybe if I don't, I lost my connection not normally dodgy, but it is no place there for the team
05:37 <KathrynM> &stfu
05:37 <Romulus> You can't turn markov up! You'll just have to live with it...
05:37 <KathrynM> darn it
05:38 * KathrynM waves a big magnet near Romulus' hard drive
05:38 <clusty> swapped some
05:38 <KathrynM> :)
05:42 <clusty> KathrynM, what about you play some :D
05:42 <KathrynM> sorry... was responding to a forum post.
05:42 <KathrynM> Going now.
05:42 <clusty> you are excused..
05:42 <clusty> :D
05:43 <KathrynM> done.
05:43 <KathrynM> But I'm gonna go stare at the fridge again. Maybe something will magically appear.
05:43 <KathrynM> bbiab
05:43 * KathrynM is away: I may still exist in an alternate reality...
05:45 <clusty> KathrynM, got the munchies?
05:48 <xcamel_away> boo..
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05:53 <KathrynM> dinner time
05:54 <KathrynM> I'm making veggie tacos
05:54 <KathrynM> only because I don't feel like cutting up the chicken.
05:55 <clusty> m gonna cut you up, chicken...\
05:55 <KathrynM> your turn
05:55 <KathrynM> gotta stir the veggies
05:59 <clusty> done
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06:05 * CoderForLife may or may not still exist in an alternate reality...
06:08 * KathrynM pokes clusty
06:08 <KathrynM> your turn ;)
06:13 <KathrynM> lhc has work. go and get it if you haven't
06:23 * KathrynM is back (gone 00:39:49)
06:27 <hawmps> they crash
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06:50 <clusty> KathrynM, finalyl did mu turn
06:50 <KathrynM> :)
06:53 <KathrynM> your turn
07:16 * hawmps fires a Nerf bomb, taking everyone out..
07:18 * KathrynM curses the small person who passed along his or her cold
07:23 *** NudgeyNR has quit IRC
08:09 <clusty> KathrynM, done
08:10 * KathrynM pokes clusty
08:10 <KathrynM> your turn ;)
08:12 <clusty> there
08:13 <KathrynM> go
08:17 <clusty> KathrynM, done
08:18 <KathrynM> get to work clusty
08:21 <clusty> neha
08:21 <clusty> done
08:22 <KathrynM> have fun
08:25 <clusty> weeee
08:25 <clusty> you beated me
08:25 <clusty> :D
08:25 * PovAddict yawns
08:25 <KathrynM> mornin' sleepy head
08:26 <KathrynM> clusty, I think you need to pass your turn
08:26 <clusty> did
08:27 <PovAddict> turn?
08:27 <PovAddict> o_o
08:28 <KathrynM> we're playing scrabble on facebook
08:28 <KathrynM> should we start a new one clusty?
08:29 <clusty> ok
08:29 <clusty> but i will play later
08:29 <KathrynM> ok
08:29 <clusty> wanna debug some crap
08:29 <KathrynM> heh
08:29 <KathrynM> scrabble is more fun
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08:35 <PovAddict> I decided to use gmp after all...
08:36 <clusty> PovAddict, what for?
08:36 <PovAddict> plus, then I'd get experience with it and could help nickuwo with his gmp problems :)
08:36 <clusty> gmp=gnu arbitrary precision?
08:37 <PovAddict> yep
08:37 <PovAddict> I'll quote a friend... "if I told you, you would have a 1001 reasons why I should do it another way, 3 or 4 questions as to why I'm doing it and etc, ad infinitum"
08:37 <clusty> its gruesome
08:37 <clusty> expressions become veru hard to write
08:38 <clusty> everything has to be grouped into binary/unary operations
08:38 <PovAddict> I need to do *two* math operations, then convert to decimal digits
08:38 <clusty> bleah
08:38 <PovAddict> that's it
08:39 <PovAddict> but it involves 100356-digit numbers, so anything I write myself will be WAY slower
08:39 <PovAddict> GMP seems to take 0.047 seconds to do the whole thing
09:30 * KathrynM is away: I may still exist in an alternate reality...
09:30 <KathrynM> night all
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10:59 <zombie67> It occurred to me that with the optimized all, SETI probably awards MORE than RS. Running that now. The final tally with the stock app was 20.09 RS vs 16.30 for SETI, or 1.23x. Well within DA's arbitrary limit of 1.5x
11:00 <hawmps> wow - 322mb of yum updates
11:01 <zombie67> for which flavor?
11:01 <hawmps> fc8
11:01 <zombie67> ah
11:01 <zombie67> is YDL FC?
11:02 <hawmps> mostly
11:05 <zombie67> what is the command line to update ubuntu?
11:17 <PovAddict> zombie67: apt-get update; apt-get upgrade;
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11:23 <zombie67> thanks!
11:24 <PovAddict> btw, yum started in yellow dog linux, then fedora took it :)
11:24 <PovAddict> yum stands for "yellowdog updater, modified"
11:25 <zombie67> i am getting an error: could not lock /var/cache/apt/archiveslock open (resource temporarily unavailable)
11:26 <zombie67> followed by: unable to lock the download directory
11:26 <PovAddict> needs root
11:26 <zombie67> I did it with sudo
11:26 <PovAddict> hmm
11:27 <PovAddict> maybe you have something else using the apt stuff
11:27 <PovAddict> like some package installer GUI
11:27 <zombie67> I tried with with gui first, and it failed. but no reason why. That is why I tried now with the command line. now at least I have a error message
11:28 <zombie67> but I rebooted inbetween
11:28 <zombie67> typo, shouldbe: could not lock /var/cache/apt/archives lock - open
11:29 <PovAddict> sudo lsof | grep apt
11:29 <zombie67> done
11:29 <PovAddict> no output?
11:30 <zombie67> tons of it
11:33 <hawmps> bbiab..
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11:36 <Romulus> Title: pastebin - collaborative debugging tool (at pastebin.com)
11:36 <PovAddict> apt-get is running, somewhere
11:37 <PovAddict> and even seems to be... downloading?
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11:41 <zombie67> trying the gui again
11:42 <hawmps> there... all done
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11:55 <zombie67> looks like DA is starting to question the data. that should have been the first step....
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12:00 <hawmps> uh-huh...
12:16 <Tank_Master> lol
12:16 <Romulus> healium cant be split
12:16 <Tank_Master> sure it can
12:16 <Tank_Master> into protons, eletrons, and newtrons...
12:17 <hawmps> leaving ziptons and zaptons
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12:34 <CoderForLife> hello from afar
12:34 <CoderForLife> &help math
12:34 <Romulus> CoderForLife: (math <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "math calc $*".
12:34 <CoderForLife> &help convert
12:34 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Error: That command exists in the Currency and Math plugins. Please specify exactly which plugin command you want help with.
12:34 <CoderForLife> er
12:34 <CoderForLife> &help math convert
12:34 <Romulus> CoderForLife: (math convert [<number>] <unit> to <other unit>) -- Converts from <unit> to <other unit>. If number isn't given, it defaults to 1. For unit information, see 'units' command.
12:35 <CoderForLife> &math convert 199.00 EUR to USD
12:35 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Error: EUR is not a valid unit.
12:35 <CoderForLife> &math convert 199.00 EU to USD
12:35 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Error: EU is not a valid unit.
12:35 <CoderForLife> &units
12:35 <Romulus> CoderForLife: valid types: mass, length, time, scheduling, temperature, temp. diff., current, charge, potential, resistance, conductance, capacitance, magn. flux, inductance, flux density, molecular qty, size of a mol, lum. intens., luminous flux, illuminance, luminance, angle, solid angle, data, data transfer, quantity, interest rate, concentration, force, area, volume, velocity, rot. velocity, fluid flow, (1 more message)
12:35 <CoderForLife> &more
12:35 <Romulus> CoderForLife: gas flow, pressure, density, energy, power, frequency, radioactivity, radiation dose, dyn viscosity, kin viscosity, acceleration, constant, fuel consumpt.
12:35 <CoderForLife> &help math currency
12:35 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Error: There is no command "math currency".
12:36 <CoderForLife> why do I always forget how to do this?
12:36 <CoderForLife> ¤cy
12:36 <Romulus> Wish I knew!
12:36 <PovAddict> ¤cy convert 199.00 EU to USD
12:36 <Romulus> PovAddict: Error: You used an incorrect currency symbol.
12:36 <CoderForLife> me too
12:36 <PovAddict> ¤cy convert 199.00 EUR to USD
12:36 <Romulus> PovAddict: 199.00 eur = 310.04 usd
12:36 <CoderForLife> ah
12:37 <CoderForLife> he's fraking giving it away
12:39 <CoderForLife> set the market price point too low
12:45 <Romulus> Title: Penny Arcade! - The Case Of Texas vs. KryoLord (at www.penny-arcade.com)
12:49 <Romulus> Title: Full Frontal Nerdity by Aaron Williams (at nodwick.humor.gamespy.com)
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13:08 <zombie67> wow. the gui worked! First time in over 6 months!
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13:16 <Tank_Master> ?
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13:24 <zombie67> what is the location of the stats export folder again?
13:25 <PovAddic1> /stats/
13:26 <zombie67> thanks
13:33 *** PovAddict has quit IRC
13:36 <zombie67> with 6 of the 20 tasks returned so far: average SETI w/ opt app = 32.78 c/h, RS = 20.09 c/h
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13:38 <zombie67> I call BS on the cross-project stats.
13:40 <zombie67> I should have all 20 tasks complete in another 5 hours or so.
13:40 <PovAddic1> cross-project stats are broken for simple reasons:
13:40 <PovAddic1> if you compare even hosts that don't crunch both projects, you'll get wrong results
13:41 <PovAddic1> if you compare only hosts that crunch both projects, you'll get wrong results too, because the host CPID is too unreliable
13:41 <PovAddic1> I have like a dozen hosts according to boincstats
13:41 <PovAddic1> most duplicated
13:41 <zombie67> I have something like 150
13:41 <PovAddic1> one host shows as having crunched seti, another RS... those will then not be used for the comparison
13:41 *** PovAddic1 is now known as PovAddict
13:43 <zombie67> also, I also this: "BOINC does not keep cumulative "CPU time" for Riesel Sieve's Sieve application when the project is swapped out or BOINC is restarted. Every time a Sieve work unit is restarted CPU time starts again at zero even though the work unit may have already run for a couple hours and the work units "Progress" is near completion. "
13:44 <zombie67> so that means CPU time is under-reported...
13:45 <PovAddict> omg THAT is the whole cause!
13:46 <PovAddict> guys at #rieselsieve could have been more specific than "it's a timing bug"
13:46 <PovAddict> now I get it
13:47 <PovAddict> where did you get that from?
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13:50 <zombie67> email to the list. I'll forward it to now
13:51 <zombie67> done
13:51 <PovAddic1> yup that is definitely the cause
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13:52 <zombie67> so then why is DA still moving forward with this craziness?
13:52 <PovAddict> because he didn't read that message yet?
13:54 <zombie67> that message was two days ago. he posted to this topic just a couple hours ago...
13:55 <PovAddict> reply, as a "bump" (like done on forums)
13:55 <zombie67> I will ask about it when I post my results.
14:01 <Lorvija> Hey, anyone happen to live near London here?
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14:46 <hawmps> he's in school...
14:46 <hawmps> (sethy)
14:48 <PovAddic1> who
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14:54 * CoderForLife misses Spit
14:55 <PovAddict> yup :(
14:56 <hawmps> indeed..
14:56 <Romulus> when those who were in powere before 911 did contrubute to it :)
14:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o hawmps
14:58 <Lorvija> Hmm.. my sis just got accepted to university in UK.. (:
14:59 *** hawmps changes topic to "BOINC | stats & logs: http://lledgerock.com/boinc_logs/ or http://lledgerock.com/boinc_logs/index2.html | Type &whatis [platform] for the link to the latest version | Romulus (&) is the channel bot."
14:59 *** hawmps sets mode: -o hawmps
14:59 <hawmps> good for her..
15:00 <Lorvija> Hmm ye.. gonna be fun to see how she'll find job etc.. She's finnish.. (:
15:01 <hawmps> lutefish & chips
15:01 <hawmps> :-)
15:01 <Lorvija> hmm lutefish?
15:02 <hawmps> bad joke, really.
15:02 <Lorvija> duh.. oh it's that kind of fish.. found it from vocabulary (: In finland we say students just eat macaroni + tuna :P
15:03 <Lorvija> if that's what you meant (:
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15:31 <wdsmia_w> &weather 50319
15:32 <Romulus> wdsmia_w: The current temperature in Drake Neighborhood, Des Moines, Iowa is 56.5°F (2:31 PM CDT on March 13, 2008). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 44%. Dew Point: 35.6°F. Pressure: 29.75 in 1007.3 hPa (Falling).
15:32 <wdsmia_w> way to nice out there to be working... think I will take the rest of the day off
15:32 <wdsmia_w> cya
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16:08 * xcamel_away is back.
16:08 *** xcamel_away is now known as xcamel
16:09 <xcamel> ip kill >> 220.127.116.11
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16:15 <wdsmia> re-hi
16:17 <Tank_Master> hey
16:18 <wdsmia> *lo Tank_Master
16:18 <Tank_Master> sup?
16:19 <wdsmia> off w#$% early today :)
16:20 <Tank_Master> nice
16:34 <zombie67> I just remembered that there are both LLR and sieve tasks on RS. I was set up to do all LLR. So I changed it the other way and will crunch a bunch of sieve and add to the analysis.
16:34 <zombie67> Will probably be tonight before I can post.
16:37 <tricaric> hello
16:37 <tricaric> I have a question regarding linux apps
16:37 <Tank_Master> hi
16:38 <tricaric> if an app needs to link to some non-standard dynamic library
16:38 <tricaric> is it sufficient to upload the library along with the binary of the app?
16:38 <tricaric> or there is some other procedure?
16:39 <PovAddict> I think it is
16:39 <PovAddict> I'm not completely sure if Linux looks for shared libraries in ./
16:39 <PovAddict> see if you can somehow use a static library instead :)
16:40 <tricaric> for most libs I can use the static version, but for a few I really have to use the dynamic one
16:41 <tricaric> I've searched BOINC docs for this info, without luck
16:41 <PovAddict> "try it and see"
16:42 <PovAddict> do you have those libraries on your *system*?
16:42 <tricaric> yep
16:42 <PovAddict> you could try running your app with anonymous platform, including the libraries there
16:43 <tricaric> what is the anonymous platform?
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16:45 <CoderForLife> allo?
16:46 <CoderForLife> moi ici
16:47 <CoderForLife> CoderPourVie
16:48 <CoderForLife> what would "Coder" be "en francais", benje?
16:50 <Tank_Master> annonumous platform is when you use a file called app_info.xml to manually download the work and use the spicifyed app in the xml file
16:50 <PovAddict> oh he asked? I missed it
16:50 <PovAddict> &bw AnonymousPlatform
16:50 <Tank_Master> it was while you d/c and r/c
16:59 <tricaric> thanks!
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17:08 <zombie67> MM is added yo BS and BAM, but apparently the wrong URL. May take a day for willy to fix.
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17:09 <yoyo[RKN]> PovAddict has a connection problem
17:10 <Romulus> he found the path y'all are on.
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17:10 <PovAddict> I didn't disconnect this time
17:10 <PovAddict> I was just testing a ghost-ing script... and shouldn't have done it to this nickname :)
17:11 <xcamel> still with the consctile dysfunction...
17:11 <xcamel> er conectlile even..
17:14 <xcamel> interesting APOD
17:14 <Romulus> Title: APOD: 2008 March 13 - Sculpting the South Pillar (at antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov)
17:17 * CoderForLife looks at APOD
17:18 <CoderForLife> nice
17:18 <CoderForLife> about time to teleport to the Couch
17:20 <Tank_Master> lol
17:21 <Soul_keeper> star trek isn't on for another hour and a half tho ...
17:21 <Tank_Master> bummer
17:21 <Tank_Master> so you cant teleport til then?
17:22 <Soul_keeper> that's my theory
17:22 <Soul_keeper> unless you use the stargate ...
17:22 <Tank_Master> lol
17:23 <Tank_Master> or the asgard beaming tech
17:23 <Soul_keeper> :)
17:26 <xcamel> farthest I'll beam is to the dinner table
17:27 <Tank_Master> :P
17:27 <Tank_Master> oh to the royal pot to give donations to the undergrown gods
17:28 <xcamel> t.m.i.
17:28 <Soul_keeper> woohoo my parts shipped
17:29 <Tank_Master> what are you getting?
17:30 <Soul_keeper> parts to put my c2d system together
17:30 <Soul_keeper> like 700 bucks worth
17:30 <Soul_keeper> it'll replace this p4 i'm using as my desktop
17:30 <Soul_keeper> desktop/workstation ...
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17:30 <Romulus> so that the only is via nuclear power plants are fission right now, South Korea
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17:31 <Tank_Master> you spend 700 and didnt geta quad?
17:32 <CoderOnTheRoad> lol
17:32 <Tank_Master> :)
17:32 <Soul_keeper> nah i already had the c2d
17:32 <CoderOnTheRoad> long way to the Couch
17:32 *** CoderOnTheRoad is now known as CoderOnTheCouch
17:32 <Tank_Master> LOL
17:33 <Soul_keeper> i'll have that upgrade uption for the future tho :)
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17:33 <Tank_Master> I dont see a CPU there
17:33 <Soul_keeper> that's because i bought the cpu about a year ago
17:34 <Soul_keeper> it's been sitting on the floor here
17:34 <Soul_keeper> e4300 the slowest c2d they make
17:34 <Soul_keeper> but still like 4x faster than my P4
17:35 <Soul_keeper> i'll throw a quad in it when nobody wants quads anymore i guess
17:35 <Soul_keeper> i spent a lot of money on "bells and whistles" instead of memory/cpu
17:38 <Soul_keeper> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115031 the cpu is like that, only 1.8GHz
17:38 <Soul_keeper> but it oc's over 3GHz
17:39 <Tank_Master> wow
17:39 <Tank_Master> thats about what my e6700 es is running at
17:39 <Tank_Master> but it was free, so I cant complain
17:40 <Soul_keeper> i got two of them
17:40 <Tank_Master> e6700?
17:40 <Soul_keeper> one is running in a headless box with minimal memory, and stuff
17:40 <Soul_keeper> e4300
17:40 <Tank_Master> oh
17:40 <Soul_keeper> no case for that one either
17:40 <Soul_keeper> just sits on the desk
17:41 <Soul_keeper> 512MB of mem
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17:41 <Tank_Master> thats all?
17:41 <Tank_Master> ram is cheep these days
17:41 <Soul_keeper> yeah seems to be plenty for linux running at console
17:41 <Soul_keeper> payed like 20 bucks for that memory
17:41 <Tank_Master> ahh
17:41 <Tank_Master> lol
17:41 <Romulus> well - I thought thats when they had to go home yet?
17:42 <Soul_keeper> this new one will have 2GB tho
17:42 <Soul_keeper> i didn't see the point in springing for 4GB, i don't use windows
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17:45 <Tank_Master> I have 4 GB
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17:45 <Tank_Master> I use server 2008 though, although the server OS uses less than 512MB
17:45 <Soul_keeper> i got 1GB in this P4 it's proven to be plenty except for a few rare situations
17:45 <Tank_Master> its with BOINC, all the other apps, and running games at the same time that I use over 2GB
17:45 <Soul_keeper> total used free shared buffers cached
17:45 <Soul_keeper> Mem: 1011 897 114 0 15 311
17:45 <Soul_keeper> -/+ buffers/cache: 569 442
17:45 <Soul_keeper> Swap: 5311 188 5123
17:45 <Tank_Master> though barly
17:46 <Soul_keeper> i got like 30 spreadsheets open :)
17:46 <Tank_Master> hehe
17:47 <xcamel> not bad..
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17:48 <Tank_Master> im using 1.99 of 4GB
17:48 <Soul_keeper> i guess if you give it more it'll use more
17:48 <Tank_Master> with vista/sever 2008, yes
17:48 <xcamel> I'm looking for a fairly powerful tablet/laptop with a cd/dvd in it
17:49 <Tank_Master> it cashes more programs into memory
17:49 <xcamel> been looking at the fujitsu lifebook, but not sure yet..
17:50 <Soul_keeper> check out umpcportal.com
17:50 <Romulus> here is my result template
17:51 <Soul_keeper> they got stats on all the latest small laptops/umpc's/ultraportables/tablets/etc.
17:51 <Soul_keeper> hmmm site isn't loading for me today
17:56 <xcamel> check camera 3 on my web page..
17:56 <xcamel> er cam 2
17:56 <xcamel> piliated woodpecker - up close
17:57 <Tank_Master> whats your webpage?
18:00 <xcamel> he's a bit behind the tree
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18:04 <xcamel> I have several pair that come back every year
18:07 <xcamel> that one is about 10" tall
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18:11 <xcamel> they're just cool birds..
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18:38 <PovAddict> &math calc 66120 + 23595
18:38 <Romulus> PovAddict: 89715
18:38 <PovAddict> &math calc 90512 - (66120 + 23595)
18:38 <Romulus> PovAddict: 797
18:40 <zombie67> you don't need () with +/-
18:41 <PovAddict> I do; or I could invert it
18:41 <PovAddict> &math calc 90512 - 66120 + 23595
18:41 <Romulus> PovAddict: 47987
18:41 <PovAddict> &math calc 90512 - 66120 - 23595
18:41 <Romulus> PovAddict: 797
18:41 <zombie67> see?
18:41 <PovAddict> yep, that's if I invert what's inside
18:41 <PovAddict> same thing
18:41 <zombie67> less keystrokes
18:41 <zombie67> ;)
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18:43 <PovAddict> &seen Romulus
18:43 <Romulus> PovAddict: I have not seen Romulus.
18:43 <PovAddict> lol
18:44 <PovAddict> &math calc 90106 - (66122 + 23536)
18:44 <Romulus> PovAddict: 448
18:44 <DerMeister> I guess, Romulus needs a mirror :P
18:50 <xcamel> if romy could see himself, it would cause a bot-death-spiral, resulting in an IRC black hole.
18:50 <PovAddict> if romy could see himself, he wouldn't like it
18:50 <Tank_Master> IRC already IS a black hole
18:51 <zombie67> racist!
18:51 <xcamel> sez you..
18:51 <zombie67> damn, another meeting to call into...
18:52 <zombie67> working sucks
18:52 <Tank_Master> hf!
18:53 <xcamel> New Policy: Work or get fired.
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18:54 <Tank_Master> wdsima just got fiered
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18:56 <Tank_Master> wb
18:56 <Romulus> celeron quap and dual comparison
18:57 <xcamel> and was re-hired at a higher rate..
18:57 <Tank_Master> congratz
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19:07 <PovAddict> zombie67: could you check if you have any files in your imp project directory, on any host?
19:11 * KathrynM is back (gone 09:40:22)
19:11 <Tank_Master> wb
19:12 <Tank_Master> PovAddict: I do
19:12 <KathrynM> mornin'
19:12 <KathrynM> It's "White Day"
19:12 <KathrynM> I expect lots of chocolates from you lot.
19:12 <Tank_Master> heh
19:14 <DerMeister> Uh... I think I go to my bed...
19:15 <Tank_Master> gn DM
19:15 <wdsmia> hit 400K at lhc
19:16 <Tank_Master> not to shabby
19:18 <wdsmia> looks like another night with no work there :(
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19:19 <PovAddict> Tank_Master: update
19:24 <Tank_Master> still there
19:25 <PovAddict> I noticed no log message saying it got deleted...
19:25 <Tank_Master> anim021.naf; libiconv-2.dll; libxml2.dll; povray_5.01_windows_intelx86.exe; zlib1.dll
19:26 <PovAddict> ah not so new...
19:26 <Tank_Master> :)
19:26 <Tank_Master> good think I posted that then...
19:26 <PovAddict> anim 21
19:26 <Tank_Master> 021
19:35 <xcamel> 1,197,253 in qmc
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19:53 <KathrynM> wow. Huge difference between RAC and BSRAC
19:58 <CoderOnTheCouch> yeow
19:58 <CoderOnTheCouch> wattupwitdat
19:58 * KathrynM shrugs
19:58 <KathrynM> dunno
19:59 <CoderOnTheCouch> and Morning =)
19:59 <KathrynM> TGIF
19:59 <CoderOnTheCouch> I look forward to it
19:59 <KathrynM> :)
20:00 * KathrynM wonders how much candy will find its way onto her desk
20:00 * KathrynM hopes it's a lot
20:00 <CoderOnTheCouch> I've lost my Coding muse this evening
20:00 <KathrynM> I hope you find it soon.
20:00 <KathrynM> I never had a Coding Muse.
20:00 <CoderOnTheCouch> I need to get a-mused again
20:01 <KathrynM> Only a Coding Mocker
20:01 <KathrynM> He sits there and laughs at me.
20:01 <KathrynM> ugh 9 AM. Time to hit the shower.
20:01 <CoderOnTheCouch> I'm off for the evening
20:01 <CoderOnTheCouch> cya all in the AM
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20:48 <Romulus> PovAddict: Error: The command "title" is available in the Format and Web plugins. Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "title".
20:48 <Romulus> PovAddict: Index of /pov
20:49 *** frost has quit IRC
20:49 <PovAddict> good, it's accessible then
20:52 <zombie67> back!
20:53 <zombie67> I have these files: libiconv-2.dll
20:53 <zombie67> libxml2.dll
20:53 <Romulus> I don't think so, chmod 644 filename right?
20:53 <PovAddict> report if you have any .naf
20:54 <zombie67> no .naf
20:54 <zombie67> povray 5.01....
20:54 <PovAddict> did you crunch any for the last batch?
20:54 <zombie67> and zlib1.dll
20:54 <zombie67> what last batch?
20:54 <zombie67> or rather which last batcgh?
20:57 <PovAddict> the one y'all called too short :)
20:58 <PovAddict> the one with 420 workunits of a minute or two
21:01 <zombie67> yeah, I crunched that. ;)
21:01 <PovAddict> then I find it strange you don't have leftover input files from it
21:01 <zombie67> I called it an appetizer.
21:02 <zombie67> this is the machine I just looked at: http://impfarm.imp.org/boinc/show_host_detail.php?hostid=112
21:02 <zombie67> it has results from march 5
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21:03 <PovAddict> and you don't have anim012.naf?
21:03 <PovAddict> err
21:03 <PovAddict> 021*
21:04 <Tank_Master> mine is gone now
21:06 <zombie67> i'll look at another host
21:06 <PovAddict> ok thanks Tank_Master
21:06 <PovAddict> looks like the deletion *was* working
21:06 <zombie67> yes, we verified it during the run
21:07 *** PovAddic1 has joined #boinc
21:07 <zombie67> ah!
21:07 <zombie67> now this one has 3 .naf files
21:07 <PovAddic1> sheesh
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21:07 <PovAddict> Tank_Master: what's the hostid?
21:07 <zombie67> 17, 20, 21
21:07 <PovAddict> zombie67: force update
21:08 <zombie67> yep, got the request to delete, and the files were deleted
21:08 <PovAddict> ARGH
21:08 <PovAddict> I'm looking at the wrong log!
21:08 <PovAddict> they changed the name recently
21:08 <PovAddict> so cgi.log is from before the name was changed
21:08 <PovAddict> it's now scheduler.log
21:09 <PovAddict> useless change, just to annoy
21:09 <zombie67> damn admins who don't update their servers!
21:09 <PovAddict> I update and get all these silly changes
21:09 <PovAddict> this is full of deletion requests now... of course...
21:09 <PovAddict> that's why I didn't see them, wrong log
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21:13 <infinisoft> Gah, getting 3/13/2008 8:32:12 PM|climateprediction.net|[error] Error on file upload: can't open log file
21:13 *** PovAddict has quit IRC
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21:17 <zombie67> changing machines
21:17 <zombie67> brb
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21:24 <PovAddict> infinisoft: http://boinc.berkeley.edu/dev/forum_thread.php?id=2269&nowrap=true#15839
21:24 <Romulus> Title: News on Project OutagesNews on Project Outages (at boinc.berkeley.edu)
21:31 *** PovAddict has quit IRC
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21:48 <infinisoft> Ah, thanks
21:49 <xcamel> poofage..
21:49 *** flight16 has quit IRC
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21:54 <xcamel> laterz..
21:55 <PovAddict> later
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22:30 <zombie67> brb
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22:44 <zombie67> pov, you still awake?
22:44 <PovAddict> yup
22:44 <zombie67> what is the URL for the cc_config info again?
22:44 <PovAddict> &bw ClientMessages
22:45 <zombie67> thanks!
22:45 <zombie67> I saw your little dig about cpu time, using another thread. nice touch
22:46 <PovAddict> I think the way I said it makes it look like "uh, everyone knows that... you dont?"
22:46 <zombie67> heh
22:46 <zombie67> I want more info on my messages tab
22:47 <zombie67> back in 5.4/5.8 days, so much more useful info
22:47 <PovAddict> sched_op_debug
22:47 <PovAddict> I have collected quotes after DA removed that:
22:48 <zombie67> one sounds like me
22:48 <PovAddict> one there is you
22:48 <zombie67> heh
22:49 <zombie67> okay, that flag
22:49 <zombie67> how to use?
22:49 <zombie67> the page is not clear
22:49 <zombie67> is is 0 or 1?
22:49 <PovAddict> 1 enables, 0 disables
22:50 <zombie67> okay, I thought I saw someone talking about level 3
22:50 <PovAddict> yeah, that's a totally unrelated server-side logging setting :)
22:50 <zombie67> this is what bugs me, client asks for work, tells you "got 0". well that's nice, but WHY??
22:51 <Soul_keeper> &weather 91977
22:51 <Romulus> Soul_keeper: The current temperature in South side of Dictionary Hill, Spring Valley, California is 60.4°F (7:50 PM PDT on March 13, 2008). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 55.4°F. Pressure: 29.50 in 998.9 hPa (Rising).
22:51 <zombie67> will sched_op_debug tell me why?
22:51 <PovAddict> try it and see
22:52 <zombie67> done
22:52 <PovAddict> you don't need to restart the client, there is a menu item on the manager to reload cc_config
22:52 <PovAddict> probably I'm too late saying that?
22:53 <zombie67> Thu Mar 13 19:53:10 2008|Milkyway@home|[sched_op_debug] Reason: no work from project
22:53 <zombie67> Reason! thanks
22:53 <Romulus> Ah! There's a win app just added!
22:53 <zombie67> MT? you around?
22:53 <PovAddict> MTughan: >poke<
22:54 <zombie67> I remembered another feature I asked for, that I forgot about when he asked again.
22:54 <zombie67> when I select messages, cmd-c (like ctrl-c in win) should copy them. Should not have to click a button.
22:57 <zombie67> ooh! would this be possible?: a settings pane where you can work on cc_config.xml via gui.
22:59 <zombie67> IMO, it should just be part of the perferences panel anyway.
22:59 <PovAddict> think remote connection
23:00 <PovAddict> the ideal case would be if the client generated most of the debugging info, and the manager just filtered it out
23:01 <zombie67> perhaps a separate pref panel for cc vs mgr.
23:01 <PovAddict> then you can even have multiple managers showing different messages (ie. changing filters on a remotely-connected manager doesn't affect any local one)
23:01 <PovAddict> and maybe even you tick a checkbox and it shows *past* debugging messages
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23:02 <zombie67> whatever the case, editing a text file is very 70's
23:03 <zombie67> clients need to be way more user-friendly
23:04 <PovAddict> I digged out some old povray code I wrote
23:04 <PovAddict> from my other computer
23:05 <zombie67> I was thinking about that last job...
23:05 <PovAddict> models rubik cubes, can even animate face twists
23:05 <PovAddict> last modification: march 2005
23:05 <zombie67> multi-threaded, yes?
23:05 <PovAddict> huh
23:05 <zombie67> povray
23:05 <zombie67> on win
23:06 <PovAddict> 3.7 is, but it's still a beta
23:06 <PovAddict> and also supports linux
23:06 <PovAddict> mac version of 3.7 still not out
23:06 <KathrynM> really?
23:06 <zombie67> right! I recall the leo thing
23:06 <PovAddict> but the license terms for the *beta* are very restrictive
23:06 <KathrynM> :(
23:06 <zombie67> anyway, if you were have sent it to me, and I put it full time on one of my 8-way machines, would that have been faster?
23:06 <PovAddict> they don't want beta code to stay around in the intertubes :)
23:07 <KathrynM> well that's understandable
23:07 <PovAddict> zombie67: well, I'd take some big time to re-write all my BOINC-related patches to fit all the modifications in 3.7
23:07 <zombie67> nono
23:07 <zombie67> not boinc
23:07 * KathrynM encourages PovAddict to get to work :)
23:07 <zombie67> I mean, if I rendered it normally on one of my 8-ways
23:08 <PovAddict> well, won't really be faster than just crunching 8 WUs at a time :)
23:08 <zombie67> no, i am still not clear
23:08 <zombie67> how long in total, did it take to render via BOINC?
23:08 <zombie67> how many hours?
23:09 <zombie67> even with you forcing resends
23:09 <PovAddict> I have no idea; with short jobs it's mostly overhead
23:09 <PovAddict> waiting for clients to report, waiting for clients to stop crunching other projects
23:09 <zombie67> 4 hours?
23:09 <PovAddict> etc
23:09 <zombie67> 8 hours?
23:09 <PovAddict> maybe yeah
23:09 <Romulus> also, next time I attempted setting a mailserver, many people told me was wrong with turbo RR?
23:10 <zombie67> so, compared to that, how fast could I crunch it with a single, 8-way win box (non-BOINC).
23:10 <zombie67> ?
23:10 <PovAddict> I dunno
23:10 <PovAddict> for short jobs, probably worth it
23:10 <zombie67> right, that is what I was thinking!
23:11 <PovAddict> but last short job was really just to test how my BOINC app coped with radiosity
23:11 <zombie67> that last one was all overhead, and waiting for a slot to free up
23:11 <PovAddict> damn crazy progress reporting...
23:11 <zombie67> assume a 60min switch time
23:12 <zombie67> those minute long tasks sit for up to an hour waiting for the running tasks to switch
23:12 <Romulus> Title: LowLatency - BOINC - Trac (at boinc.berkeley.edu)
23:12 <zombie67> like the MilkyWay problem
23:13 <PovAddict> also, using only server-side changes (no client changes needed), I could in theory send optimized apps automatically
23:13 <PovAddict> POV-Ray really gets faster enabling SSE and such
23:13 <PovAddict> I have no idea what optimizations I used on the current app
23:13 <PovAddict> probably not much
23:13 <zombie67> sounds very inetresting!
23:14 <PovAddict> one problem would be... credits >.<
23:14 <zombie67> hah!
23:14 <zombie67> here is a credit question, that last job, how many total credits were issued?
23:14 <PovAddict> let's find out!
23:14 <zombie67> I'll look on boincstats!
23:14 <zombie67> oh
23:15 <zombie67> ;
23:15 <PovAddict> or not :)
23:15 <zombie67> :)
23:16 <zombie67> still looking?
23:16 <PovAddict> 116 apparently... hmm
23:16 <zombie67> 116 credits, for all that effort?
23:17 <PovAddict> how many credits do you usually get per hour?
23:18 <zombie67> looking at that comparison spreadsheet, 114 is what my 8-way win machine claims after 22714 sec of work
23:18 <PovAddict> this was 32024 seconds of work (on machines of varying speed)
23:19 <PovAddict> average speed probably slower than your 8-way :)
23:19 <zombie67> 6.3 hours of work / cores = .79 hours of machine time
23:19 <PovAddict> and remember I just use benchmark credits
23:19 <zombie67> yep
23:20 <zombie67> that is why I went off claimed credits
23:20 <PovAddict> I could give you CPU time and credits granted for every single result, if you're interested in stats
23:21 <zombie67> sure
23:21 <zombie67> I'll give it a comparison, total, vs a particular machine of mine
23:22 <zombie67> so, assuming cpu efficiency is the same, BOINC vs single machine w/ multi-thread app, I can return the same job in less than an hour
23:23 <PovAddict> zero ones are probably canceled by server
23:23 <zombie67> so tell you what, just send me the short jobs, give me 1.5x the credits, and get the job back in 1/4 of the time!
23:26 <zombie67> 13.05 c/h
23:26 <zombie67> 16.27 c/h is seti stock
23:26 <zombie67> you suck
23:26 <zombie67> ;)
23:27 <PovAddict> if there was no such thing as cross-project parity...
23:27 <PovAddict> if projects gave credits like games give scores: arbitrarily, and non-comparable between them...
23:27 <PovAddict> things would be so much easier
23:28 <zombie67> I like the F1 ranking
23:28 <PovAddict> yup...
23:28 <zombie67> lemme look up my benchmark machine
23:28 <PovAddict> if one project gave a thousand credits per hour and another gave one credit per hour
23:28 <PovAddict> you could still compare against other members of the same project
23:28 <PovAddict> and compare your rank between projects
23:29 <zombie67> right! compare ranks!
23:29 <PovAddict> FormulaBoinc uses rank, doesn't it?
23:29 <PovAddict> I'm #773 on Proteins
23:29 <zombie67> damn, that machine didn't get any.
23:29 <PovAddict> and #57986 in Einstein :)
23:29 <zombie67> however, I have 2 more identical boces
23:29 <zombie67> boxes
23:29 <PovAddict> I have 13k credits on proteins, and 11k credits on einstein...
23:30 <PovAddict> einstein has more users, and their users have generally more credits
23:30 <PovAddict> I guess the big question is
23:30 <PovAddict> can you really compare an hour of protein folding and an hour of prime searching?
23:30 <zombie67> all in the low-to-mid 18s c/h
23:31 <zombie67> jerk! You inflation-creating-monster!
23:32 <zombie67> compare an hour of protein folding vs. an hour of prime searching vs. an hour of prime searching with an opt app?
23:32 <PovAddict> pacman makers won't add a 0 at the end of the score so people play pacman more than asteroids
23:32 <PovAddict> why?
23:32 <PovAddict> because people don't compare the raw score between both games
23:32 <zombie67> it's all about rank
23:32 <zombie67> the absolut number is meaningless
23:33 <PovAddict> I'm #1 at pacman, but somebody's still kicking my ass at asteroids, gotta get working on that
23:33 <zombie67> as long as 1 = 1 on the same project
23:33 <PovAddict> ooh
23:33 <PovAddict> I just noticed something
23:33 <PovAddict> it would make people spread out naturally
23:33 <PovAddict> if you compare ranks, what are the easiest projects?
23:33 <zombie67> that is the game I already play... ;)
23:33 <PovAddict> easiest projects are those with fewer users
23:33 <zombie67> where is the low-hanging fruit?
23:33 <zombie67> exactly!
23:34 <PovAddict> and when everybody jumps on that one, it will get harder
23:34 <zombie67> that is also what drives many of the ATA crowd
23:34 <KathrynM> gotta go back to w*&%
23:34 <PovAddict> bye KathrynM
23:34 <zombie67> sorry to hear
23:34 <KathrynM> At least I'm basically not working today. I have no voice.
23:34 <zombie67> I love DOMINATING early projects.
23:34 <PovAddict> got any chocolates yet, KathrynM?
23:34 <KathrynM> I woke up with a nasty case of largynitis (or however you spell it)
23:35 <KathrynM> lol
23:35 <KathrynM> yeah
23:35 <zombie67> sorry to hear
23:35 <PovAddict> gonna share?
23:35 <KathrynM> not on your life
23:35 <PovAddict> kthx
23:35 <Romulus> goes to do another build test :)
23:35 <zombie67> brb
23:35 * KathrynM runs out yelling "their mine mine mine!!!"
23:35 <KathrynM> errr "they're"
23:35 * PovAddict goes get some of his own
23:35 * KathrynM goes to hide in a corner
23:35 * KathrynM is away: I may still exist in an alternate reality...
23:35 <PovAddict> it's 1.30 am, as good time as any to eat some chocolate
23:36 <PovAddict> sometimes I wonder how I manage *not* to get fat
23:38 <PovAddict> back
23:38 <zombie67> you are young, that's how
23:38 <PovAddict> with some ghirardelli dark chocolate
23:39 <PovAddict> some years ago I saw some news of a kid who got arrested for making a widely-spreading virus
23:39 <zombie67> right next door...ghirardelli
23:39 <PovAddict> he was like 18
23:39 <PovAddict> had 7 computers
23:39 <PovAddict> and he was quite fat too :)
23:40 <zombie67> so yes, cross project RANKING will drive stat freaks (like me) to the smaller/newer projects
23:40 <zombie67> I can never compete with NEZ
23:40 <PovAddict> even if this is The Perfect Credit System
23:40 <PovAddict> there's a li'l problem
23:40 <PovAddict> migration
23:41 <PovAddict> what do we do with current credits?
23:41 <zombie67> Ranking is based on credits. can't get rid of them
23:41 <zombie67> but each project publishes only rankings
23:41 <PovAddict> imagine we start from scratch
23:42 <zombie67> or just stops publishing credits
23:42 <PovAddict> prime projects give 1 point per test
23:42 <zombie67> doesn't matter
23:42 <PovAddict> I give 1 point per thousand rays traced
23:42 <zombie67> each project can have their own credit method
23:42 <PovAddict> it does matter
23:42 <zombie67> nope
23:42 <PovAddict> each project can have their own credit method, if starting from scratch
23:42 <zombie67> still doesn't matter
23:43 <PovAddict> but how do they add "their own credit method" with the existing boinc-benchmark-based credits?
23:43 <PovAddict> it matters for ranking too
23:43 <zombie67> no
23:43 <zombie67> they just continue with the same method
23:43 <zombie67> as long as they stay consistent within the project
23:44 <PovAddict> benchmarks can be cheated, etc
23:44 <zombie67> OW, they can't CHANGE the method
23:44 <zombie67> IOW
23:45 <zombie67> but that constraint exists today
23:46 <zombie67> you can convert, but it takes a method. Like using a benchmark system to change from the standard credit method, to fixed credits
23:46 <zombie67> that is what PS3GRID for examle
23:46 <zombie67> example
23:46 <PovAddict> yep but that's because they try to make fixed credits similar to benchmark credits
23:47 <zombie67> they ran a WU on a PPC/linux box, then ran it on a PS3/linux box, found it was 16x faster, and implemented that.
23:47 <zombie67> the point is you can transition from one method to another without too much disruption.
23:48 <zombie67> but you can't change in the middle going from say, CPU to GPU counting
23:48 <PovAddict> what did they do with credits on seti classic -> boinc switch?
23:48 <zombie67> trashed it all together
23:48 <PovAddict> sounds tempting
23:48 <PovAddict> bwahahaha
23:48 <zombie67> sure.
23:48 <PovAddict> >:)
23:48 <PovAddict> (:<
23:49 <zombie67> but moving to a cross-project ranking need not bee as drastic.
23:49 <zombie67> just stop exporting credits
23:49 <zombie67> only export ranks
23:49 <PovAddict> I was thinking about something more drastic...
23:49 <zombie67> then it no longer matters how projects award credits
23:50 <PovAddict> it would be a lot easier for projects to give credits in arbitrary units incompatible with current credits, like number of primes tested
23:50 <PovAddict> which may be an order of magnitude off current credits
23:51 <zombie67> sure
23:51 <PovAddict> then if somebody makes a completely different algorithm giving the same results faster
23:51 <zombie67> they could do that right away
23:51 <PovAddict> you still have some unit to measure the work it does
23:51 <zombie67> the only issue is WITHIN the project
23:51 <zombie67> it is not a cross-project issur
23:51 <zombie67> issue
23:51 <PovAddict> if they do that right away, it stops being compatible with credits *within* the project, before the change
23:52 <zombie67> jinx
23:52 <PovAddict> I wasn't talking about separate projects
23:52 <zombie67> me neither
23:52 <PovAddict> you seemed to assume I was :)
23:53 <zombie67> that is what I was talking about when I was talking about using a benchmark method to transition from one method to another
23:55 <zombie67> that is effectively what seti did. they moved to count fops, by making the count roughly equal the stock BOINC method
23:55 <PovAddict> yep
23:55 <zombie67> and they just keep modifying the multiplier
23:55 <PovAddict> but if a lot of people use optimized apps, they'd overgrant
23:55 <zombie67> not overgrant! make faster!
23:56 <zombie67> if I do 2x the work/time period, I should get 2x the credits
23:56 <zombie67> oh!
23:56 <zombie67> sorry
23:56 <zombie67> misread what you wronte
23:56 <PovAddict> "overgrant" compared to other projects (currently)
23:56 <zombie67> yes
23:56 <PovAddict> on the current fscked-up system :)
23:57 * PovAddict unplugs his mouse
23:58 *** infinisoft has quit IRC
23:58 <zombie67> I loved the old lotus 123. No mouse at all. all keyboard and arrow keys.
23:59 <PovAddict> let's see how long I survive
23:59 <PovAddict> at least, I'll get used to some keyboard tasks, maybe even learn some new keyboard shortcuts in Eclipse
23:59 <zombie67> WAY faster than excel/OOo with REQUIRES you use the mouse
23:59 <PovAddict> and by the time I plug it back, I'll need it less :)
23:59 <zombie67> Eclipse?