IRC logs of #boinc for Thursday, 2008-03-13

00:07 <MTughan> Kathryn didn't stay for very long, did she?

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00:20 <MTughan> Uh...

00:20 <MTughan> &explosm

00:20 <Romulus>

00:20 <MTughan> I suppose I should expect this type of stuff from Explosm, but still...

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04:43 <CoderForLife> anybody home?

04:43 <Romulus> The Sparcs have had a 20 min job max

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05:02 <CoderForLife> breakfast time - brb

05:14 * KathrynM is back (gone 05:31:44)

05:15 <CoderForLife> morning KathrynM

05:15 <KathrynM> ugh

05:15 <KathrynM> at least tomorrow is friday

05:16 <CoderForLife> There's that Cleveland Indian coming out in you again

05:16 <KathrynM> lol

05:16 * CoderForLife carefully inspects the calendar

05:17 <CoderForLife> a-yup

05:17 * KathrynM contemplates the state of the refrigerator

05:17 * KathrynM wishes she had enough cash to call out for pizza

05:17 <CoderForLife> open the window and call out "I want pizza!"

05:18 <KathrynM> alas there's noone to bring it

05:18 <KathrynM> they all seem to want money in exchange

05:18 <KathrynM> I've got the stuff to make chicken and spinach tacos.

05:18 <KathrynM> What I lack is the energy.

05:18 <CoderForLife> capitalism...

05:18 <CoderForLife> what you lack is capital

05:19 <KathrynM> that too

05:19 <CoderForLife> I suspect that chicken and spinach are not like peanut butter and chocolate

05:20 <KathrynM> I'd much rather pb & choco.  But I'm lacking both of those right now.

05:21 <CoderForLife> you are indeed needy

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05:21 <KathrynM> that I am

05:21 <kutio> Anyone knows if there exists a project which the goal is to brute force hash password ?

05:21 <kutio> on grid ?

05:23 <KathrynM> To actually break passwords?

05:23 <kutio> break hash

05:23 <CoderForLife> sounds evil

05:24 <kutio> no sounds useful

05:24 <KathrynM>

05:24 <Romulus> Title: SHA-1 Collision Search Graz (at

05:24 <KathrynM> There used to be one called "Hash Clash" but it's retired

05:24 <KathrynM> And I thought there was another, but I don't remember what it was.

05:24 <kutio> this project search colission on the SHA-1 algorithm

05:25 <KathrynM> those are the only ones in that general area, sorry

05:25 <kutio> ok thanks

05:26 <CoderForLife> usefully evil

05:26 <kutio> I've sounded that it existed but I don't know what's is the name for this project

05:26 <kutio> I know they have an irc server

05:26 <kutio> s/what's/what

05:35 <clusty> KathrynM, damn youre good

05:35 <KathrynM> huh?

05:35 <clusty> word worth 33

05:35 <KathrynM> ah

05:36 <KathrynM> my co-workers are kicking my butt

05:36 <clusty> and I have 5 times the letter I

05:36 <clusty> :D

05:36 <clusty> WTF am I to do with all these

05:36 <KathrynM> lol

05:36 <KathrynM> swap letters?

05:37 <KathrynM> you can use one of them

05:37 <KathrynM> see where ate and test cross?

05:37 <clusty> yah

05:37 <KathrynM> you can put one of the I's by the two t's

05:37 <KathrynM> not very helpful tho :)

05:37 <Romulus> maybe if I don't, I lost my connection not normally dodgy, but it is no place there for the team

05:37 <KathrynM> &stfu

05:37 <Romulus> You can't turn markov up! You'll just have to live with it...

05:37 <KathrynM> darn it

05:38 * KathrynM waves a big magnet near Romulus' hard drive

05:38 <clusty> swapped some

05:38 <KathrynM> :)

05:42 <clusty> KathrynM, what about you play some :D

05:42 <KathrynM> sorry...  was responding to a forum post.

05:42 <KathrynM> Going now.

05:42 <clusty> you are excused..

05:42 <clusty> :D

05:43 <KathrynM> done.

05:43 <KathrynM> But I'm gonna go stare at the fridge again.  Maybe something will magically appear.

05:43 <KathrynM> bbiab

05:43 * KathrynM is away: I may still exist in an alternate reality...

05:45 <clusty> KathrynM, got the munchies?

05:48 <xcamel_away> boo..

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05:53 <KathrynM> dinner time

05:54 <KathrynM> I'm making veggie tacos

05:54 <KathrynM> only because I don't feel like cutting up the chicken.

05:55 <clusty> m gonna cut you up, chicken...\

05:55 <KathrynM> your turn

05:55 <KathrynM> gotta stir the veggies

05:59 <clusty> done

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06:05 * CoderForLife may or may not still exist in an alternate reality...

06:08 * KathrynM pokes clusty

06:08 <KathrynM> your turn ;)

06:13 <KathrynM> lhc has work.  go and get it if you haven't

06:23 * KathrynM is back (gone 00:39:49)

06:27 <hawmps> they crash

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06:50 <clusty> KathrynM, finalyl did mu turn

06:50 <KathrynM> :)

06:53 <KathrynM> your turn

07:16 * hawmps fires a Nerf bomb, taking everyone out..

07:18 * KathrynM curses the small person who passed along his or her cold

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08:09 <clusty> KathrynM, done

08:10 * KathrynM pokes clusty

08:10 <KathrynM> your turn ;)

08:12 <clusty> there

08:13 <KathrynM> go

08:17 <clusty> KathrynM, done

08:18 <KathrynM> get to work clusty

08:21 <clusty> neha

08:21 <clusty> done

08:22 <KathrynM> have fun

08:25 <clusty> weeee

08:25 <clusty> you beated me

08:25 <clusty> :D

08:25 * PovAddict yawns

08:25 <KathrynM> mornin' sleepy head

08:26 <KathrynM> clusty, I think you need to pass your turn

08:26 <clusty> did

08:27 <PovAddict> turn?

08:27 <PovAddict> o_o

08:28 <KathrynM> we're playing scrabble on facebook

08:28 <KathrynM> should we start a new one clusty?

08:29 <clusty> ok

08:29 <clusty> but i will play later

08:29 <KathrynM> ok

08:29 <clusty> wanna debug some crap

08:29 <KathrynM> heh

08:29 <KathrynM> scrabble is more fun

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08:35 <PovAddict> I decided to use gmp after all...

08:36 <clusty> PovAddict, what for?

08:36 <PovAddict> plus, then I'd get experience with it and could help nickuwo with his gmp problems :)

08:36 <clusty> gmp=gnu arbitrary precision?

08:37 <PovAddict> yep

08:37 <PovAddict> I'll quote a friend... "if I told you, you would have a 1001 reasons why I should do it another way, 3 or 4 questions as to why I'm doing it and etc, ad infinitum"

08:37 <clusty> its gruesome

08:37 <clusty> expressions become veru hard to write

08:38 <clusty> everything has to be grouped into binary/unary operations

08:38 <PovAddict> I need to do *two* math operations, then convert to decimal digits

08:38 <clusty> bleah

08:38 <PovAddict> that's it

08:39 <PovAddict> but it involves 100356-digit numbers, so anything I write myself will be WAY slower

08:39 <PovAddict> GMP seems to take 0.047 seconds to do the whole thing

09:30 * KathrynM is away: I may still exist in an alternate reality...

09:30 <KathrynM> night all

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10:59 <zombie67> It occurred to me that with the optimized all, SETI probably awards MORE than RS.  Running that now.  The final tally with the stock app was 20.09 RS vs 16.30 for SETI, or 1.23x.  Well within DA's arbitrary limit of 1.5x

11:00 <hawmps> wow - 322mb of yum updates

11:01 <zombie67> for which flavor?

11:01 <hawmps> fc8

11:01 <zombie67> ah

11:01 <zombie67> is YDL FC?

11:02 <hawmps> mostly

11:05 <zombie67> what is the command line to update ubuntu?

11:17 <PovAddict> zombie67: apt-get update; apt-get upgrade;

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11:23 <zombie67> thanks!

11:24 <PovAddict> btw, yum started in yellow dog linux, then fedora took it :)

11:24 <PovAddict> yum stands for "yellowdog updater, modified"

11:25 <zombie67> i am getting an error:  could not lock /var/cache/apt/archiveslock open (resource temporarily unavailable)

11:26 <zombie67> followed by:  unable to lock the download directory

11:26 <PovAddict> needs root

11:26 <zombie67> I did it with sudo

11:26 <PovAddict> hmm

11:27 <PovAddict> maybe you have something else using the apt stuff

11:27 <PovAddict> like some package installer GUI

11:27 <zombie67> I tried with with gui first, and it failed.  but no reason why.  That is why I tried now with the command line.  now at least I have a error message

11:28 <zombie67> but I rebooted inbetween

11:28 <zombie67> typo, shouldbe:  could not lock /var/cache/apt/archives lock - open

11:29 <PovAddict> sudo lsof | grep apt

11:29 <zombie67> done

11:29 <PovAddict> no output?

11:30 <zombie67> tons of it

11:33 <hawmps> bbiab..

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11:36 <zombie67>

11:36 <Romulus> Title: pastebin - collaborative debugging tool (at

11:36 <PovAddict> apt-get is running, somewhere

11:37 <PovAddict> and even seems to be... downloading?

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11:41 <zombie67> trying the gui again

11:42 <hawmps> there... all done

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11:55 <zombie67> looks like DA is starting to question the data.  that should have been the first step....

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12:00 <hawmps> uh-huh...

12:16 <Tank_Master> lol

12:16 <Romulus> healium cant be split

12:16 <Tank_Master> sure it can

12:16 <Tank_Master> into protons, eletrons, and newtrons...

12:17 <hawmps> leaving ziptons and zaptons

12:18 <PovAddict>

12:18 <Romulus> <> (at

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12:34 <CoderForLife> hello from afar

12:34 <CoderForLife> &help math

12:34 <Romulus> CoderForLife: (math <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "math calc $*".

12:34 <CoderForLife> &help convert

12:34 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Error: That command exists in the Currency and Math plugins.  Please specify exactly which plugin command you want help with.

12:34 <CoderForLife> er

12:34 <CoderForLife> &help math convert

12:34 <Romulus> CoderForLife: (math convert [<number>] <unit> to <other unit>) -- Converts from <unit> to <other unit>. If number isn't given, it defaults to 1. For unit information, see 'units' command.

12:35 <CoderForLife> &math convert 199.00 EUR to USD

12:35 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Error: EUR is not a valid unit.

12:35 <CoderForLife> &math convert 199.00 EU to USD

12:35 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Error: EU is not a valid unit.

12:35 <CoderForLife> &units

12:35 <Romulus> CoderForLife: valid types: mass, length, time, scheduling, temperature, temp. diff., current, charge, potential, resistance, conductance, capacitance, magn. flux, inductance, flux density, molecular qty, size of a mol, lum. intens., luminous flux, illuminance, luminance, angle, solid angle, data, data transfer, quantity, interest rate, concentration, force, area, volume, velocity, rot. velocity, fluid flow, (1 more message)

12:35 <CoderForLife> &more

12:35 <Romulus> CoderForLife: gas flow, pressure, density, energy, power, frequency, radioactivity, radiation dose, dyn viscosity, kin viscosity, acceleration, constant, fuel consumpt.

12:35 <CoderForLife> &help math currency

12:35 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Error: There is no command "math currency".

12:36 <CoderForLife> why do I always forget how to do this?

12:36 <CoderForLife> &currency

12:36 <Romulus> Wish I knew!

12:36 <PovAddict> &currency convert 199.00 EU to USD

12:36 <Romulus> PovAddict: Error: You used an incorrect currency symbol.

12:36 <CoderForLife> me too

12:36 <PovAddict> &currency convert 199.00 EUR to USD

12:36 <Romulus> PovAddict: 199.00 eur = 310.04 usd

12:36 <CoderForLife> ah

12:37 <CoderForLife> he's fraking giving it away

12:39 <CoderForLife> set the market price point too low

12:45 <zombie67>

12:45 <Romulus> Title: Penny Arcade! - The Case Of Texas vs. KryoLord (at

12:49 <zombie67>

12:49 <Romulus> Title: Full Frontal Nerdity by Aaron Williams (at

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13:08 <zombie67> wow.  the gui worked!  First time in over 6 months!

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13:16 <Tank_Master> ?

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13:24 <zombie67> what is the location of the stats export folder again?

13:25 <PovAddic1> /stats/

13:26 <zombie67> thanks

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13:36 <zombie67> with 6 of the 20 tasks returned so far:  average SETI w/ opt app = 32.78 c/h, RS = 20.09 c/h

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13:38 <zombie67> I call BS on the cross-project stats.

13:40 <zombie67> I should have all 20 tasks complete in another 5 hours or so.

13:40 <PovAddic1> cross-project stats are broken for simple reasons:

13:40 <PovAddic1> if you compare even hosts that don't crunch both projects, you'll get wrong results

13:41 <PovAddic1> if you compare only hosts that crunch both projects, you'll get wrong results too, because the host CPID is too unreliable

13:41 <PovAddic1> I have like a dozen hosts according to boincstats

13:41 <PovAddic1> most duplicated

13:41 <zombie67> I have something like 150

13:41 <PovAddic1> one host shows as having crunched seti, another RS... those will then not be used for the comparison

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13:43 <zombie67> also, I also this:  "BOINC does not keep cumulative "CPU time" for Riesel Sieve's Sieve application when the project is swapped out or BOINC is restarted.  Every time a Sieve work unit is restarted CPU time starts again at zero even though the work unit may have already run for a couple hours and the work units "Progress" is near completion. "

13:44 <zombie67> so that means CPU time is under-reported...

13:45 <PovAddict> omg THAT is the whole cause!

13:46 <PovAddict> guys at #rieselsieve could have been more specific than "it's a timing bug"

13:46 <PovAddict> now I get it

13:47 <PovAddict> where did you get that from?

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13:50 <zombie67> email to the list.  I'll forward it to now

13:51 <zombie67> done

13:51 <PovAddic1> yup that is definitely the cause

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13:52 <zombie67> so then why is DA still moving forward with this craziness?

13:52 <PovAddict> because he didn't read that message yet?

13:54 <zombie67> that message was two days ago.  he posted to this topic just a couple hours ago...

13:55 <PovAddict> reply, as a "bump" (like done on forums)

13:55 <zombie67> I will ask about it when I post my results.

14:01 <Lorvija> Hey, anyone happen to live near London here?

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14:46 <hawmps> he's in school...

14:46 <hawmps> (sethy)

14:48 <PovAddic1> who

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14:54 * CoderForLife misses Spit

14:55 <PovAddict> yup :(

14:56 <hawmps> indeed..

14:56 <Romulus> when those who were in powere before 911 did contrubute to it :)

14:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o hawmps

14:57 *** hawmps changes topic to "BOINC | stats & logs: | Type &whatis [platform] for the link to the latest version | Romulus (&) is the channel bot."

14:58 <Lorvija> Hmm.. my sis just got accepted to university in UK.. (:

14:59 *** hawmps changes topic to "BOINC | stats & logs: or | Type &whatis [platform] for the link to the latest version | Romulus (&) is the channel bot."

14:59 *** hawmps sets mode: -o hawmps

14:59 <hawmps> good for her..

15:00 <Lorvija> Hmm ye.. gonna be fun to see how she'll find job etc.. She's finnish.. (:

15:01 <hawmps> lutefish & chips

15:01 <hawmps> :-)

15:01 <Lorvija> hmm lutefish?

15:02 <hawmps> bad joke, really.

15:02 <Lorvija> duh.. oh it's that kind of fish.. found it from vocabulary (:  In finland we say students just eat macaroni + tuna :P

15:03 <Lorvija> if that's what you meant (:

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15:31 <wdsmia_w> &weather 50319

15:32 <Romulus> wdsmia_w: The current temperature in Drake Neighborhood, Des Moines, Iowa is 56.5F (2:31 PM CDT on March 13, 2008). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 44%. Dew Point: 35.6F. Pressure: 29.75 in 1007.3 hPa (Falling).

15:32 <wdsmia_w> way to nice out there to be working... think I will take the rest of the day off

15:32 <wdsmia_w> cya

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16:08 * xcamel_away is back.

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16:09 <xcamel> ip kill >>

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16:15 <wdsmia> re-hi

16:17 <Tank_Master> hey

16:18 <wdsmia> *lo Tank_Master

16:18 <Tank_Master> sup?

16:19 <wdsmia> off w#$% early today :)

16:20 <Tank_Master> nice

16:34 <zombie67> I just remembered that there are both LLR and sieve tasks on RS.  I was set up to do all LLR.  So I changed it the other way and will crunch a bunch of sieve and add to the analysis.

16:34 <zombie67> Will probably be tonight before I can post.

16:37 <tricaric> hello

16:37 <tricaric> I have  a question regarding linux apps

16:37 <Tank_Master> hi

16:38 <tricaric> if an app needs to link to some non-standard dynamic library

16:38 <tricaric> is it sufficient to upload the library along with the binary of the app?

16:38 <tricaric> or there is some other procedure?

16:39 <PovAddict> I think it is

16:39 <PovAddict> I'm not completely sure if Linux looks for shared libraries in ./

16:39 <PovAddict> see if you can somehow use a static library instead :)

16:40 <tricaric> for most libs I can use the static version, but for a few I really have to use the dynamic one

16:41 <tricaric> I've searched BOINC docs for this info, without luck

16:41 <PovAddict> "try it and see"

16:42 <PovAddict> do you have those libraries on your *system*?

16:42 <tricaric> yep

16:42 <PovAddict> you could try running your app with anonymous platform, including the libraries there

16:43 <tricaric> what is the anonymous platform?

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16:45 <CoderForLife> allo?

16:46 <CoderForLife> moi ici

16:47 <CoderForLife> CoderPourVie

16:48 <CoderForLife> what would "Coder" be "en francais", benje?

16:50 <Tank_Master> annonumous platform is when you use a file called app_info.xml to manually download the work and use the spicifyed app in the xml file

16:50 <PovAddict> oh he asked? I missed it

16:50 <PovAddict> &bw AnonymousPlatform

16:50 <Romulus>

16:50 <Tank_Master> it was while you d/c and r/c

16:59 <tricaric> thanks!

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17:08 <zombie67> MM is added yo BS and BAM, but apparently the wrong URL.  May take a day for willy to fix.

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17:09 <yoyo[RKN]> PovAddict has a connection problem

17:10 <Romulus> he found the path y'all are on.

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17:10 <PovAddict> I didn't disconnect this time

17:10 <PovAddict> I was just testing a ghost-ing script... and shouldn't have done it to this nickname :)

17:11 <xcamel> still with the consctile dysfunction...

17:11 <xcamel> er conectlile even..

17:14 <xcamel> interesting APOD

17:14 <xcamel>

17:14 <Romulus> Title: APOD: 2008 March 13 - Sculpting the South Pillar (at

17:17 * CoderForLife looks at APOD

17:18 <CoderForLife> nice

17:18 <CoderForLife> about time to teleport to the Couch

17:20 <Tank_Master> lol

17:21 <Soul_keeper> star trek isn't on for another hour and a half tho ...

17:21 <Tank_Master> bummer

17:21 <Tank_Master> so you cant teleport til then?

17:22 <Soul_keeper> that's my theory

17:22 <Soul_keeper> unless you use the stargate ...

17:22 <Tank_Master> lol

17:23 <Tank_Master> or the asgard beaming tech

17:23 <Soul_keeper> :)

17:26 <xcamel> farthest I'll beam is to the dinner table

17:27 <Tank_Master> :P

17:27 <Tank_Master> oh to the royal pot to give donations to the undergrown gods

17:28 <xcamel> t.m.i.

17:28 <Soul_keeper> woohoo my parts shipped

17:29 <Tank_Master> what are you getting?

17:30 <Soul_keeper> parts to put my c2d system together

17:30 <Soul_keeper> like 700 bucks worth

17:30 <Soul_keeper> it'll replace this p4 i'm using as my desktop

17:30 <Soul_keeper> desktop/workstation ...

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17:30 <Romulus> so that the only is via nuclear power plants are fission right now, South Korea

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17:31 <Tank_Master> you spend 700 and didnt geta quad?

17:32 <CoderOnTheRoad> lol

17:32 <Tank_Master> :)

17:32 <Soul_keeper>

17:32 <Romulus> <> (at

17:32 <Soul_keeper> nah i already had the c2d

17:32 <CoderOnTheRoad> long way to the Couch

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17:32 <Tank_Master> LOL

17:33 <Soul_keeper> i'll have that upgrade uption for the future tho :)

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17:33 <Tank_Master> I dont see a CPU there

17:33 <Soul_keeper> that's because i bought the cpu about a year ago

17:34 <Soul_keeper> it's been sitting on the floor here

17:34 <Soul_keeper> e4300  the slowest c2d they make

17:34 <Soul_keeper> but still like 4x faster than my P4

17:35 <Soul_keeper> i'll throw a quad in it when nobody wants quads anymore i guess

17:35 <Soul_keeper> i spent a lot of money on "bells and whistles" instead of memory/cpu

17:38 <Soul_keeper>     the cpu is like that, only 1.8GHz

17:38 <Romulus> <> (at

17:38 <Soul_keeper> but it oc's over 3GHz

17:39 <Tank_Master> wow

17:39 <Tank_Master> thats about what my e6700 es is running at

17:39 <Tank_Master> but it was free, so I cant complain

17:40 <Soul_keeper> i got two of them

17:40 <Tank_Master> e6700?

17:40 <Soul_keeper> one is running in a headless box with minimal memory, and stuff

17:40 <Soul_keeper> e4300

17:40 <Tank_Master> oh

17:40 <Soul_keeper> no case for that one either

17:40 <Soul_keeper> just sits on the desk

17:41 <Soul_keeper> 512MB of mem

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17:41 <Tank_Master> thats all?

17:41 <Tank_Master> ram is cheep these days

17:41 <Soul_keeper> yeah seems to be plenty for linux running at console

17:41 <Soul_keeper> payed like 20 bucks for that memory

17:41 <Tank_Master> ahh

17:41 <Tank_Master> lol

17:41 <Romulus> well - I thought thats when they had to go home yet?

17:42 <Soul_keeper> this new one will have 2GB tho

17:42 <Soul_keeper> i didn't see the point in springing for 4GB, i don't use windows

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17:45 <Tank_Master> I have 4 GB

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17:45 <Tank_Master> I use server 2008 though, although the server OS uses less than 512MB

17:45 <Soul_keeper> i got 1GB in this P4  it's proven to be plenty except for a few rare situations

17:45 <Tank_Master> its with BOINC, all the other apps, and running games at the same time that I use over 2GB

17:45 <Soul_keeper>              total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached

17:45 <Soul_keeper> Mem:          1011        897        114          0         15        311

17:45 <Soul_keeper> -/+ buffers/cache:        569        442

17:45 <Soul_keeper> Swap:         5311        188       5123

17:45 <Tank_Master> though barly

17:46 <Soul_keeper> i got like 30 spreadsheets open :)

17:46 <Tank_Master> hehe

17:47 <xcamel> not bad..

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17:48 <Tank_Master> im using 1.99 of 4GB

17:48 <Soul_keeper> i guess if you give it more it'll use more

17:48 <Tank_Master> with vista/sever 2008, yes

17:48 <xcamel> I'm looking for a fairly powerful tablet/laptop with a cd/dvd in it

17:49 <Tank_Master> it cashes more programs into memory

17:49 <xcamel> been looking at the fujitsu lifebook, but not sure yet..

17:50 <Soul_keeper> check out

17:50 <Romulus> here is my result template

17:51 <Soul_keeper> they got stats on all the latest small laptops/umpc's/ultraportables/tablets/etc.

17:51 <Soul_keeper> hmmm site isn't loading for me today

17:56 <xcamel> check camera 3 on my web page..

17:56 <xcamel> er cam 2

17:56 <xcamel> piliated woodpecker - up close

17:57 <Tank_Master> whats your webpage?

17:58 <xcamel>

18:00 <xcamel> he's a bit behind the tree

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18:04 <xcamel> I have several pair that come back every year

18:07 <xcamel> that one is about 10" tall

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18:11 <xcamel> they're just cool birds..

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18:38 <PovAddict> &math calc 66120 + 23595

18:38 <Romulus> PovAddict: 89715

18:38 <PovAddict> &math calc 90512 - (66120 + 23595)

18:38 <Romulus> PovAddict: 797

18:40 <zombie67> you don't need () with +/-

18:41 <PovAddict> I do; or I could invert it

18:41 <PovAddict> &math calc 90512 - 66120 + 23595

18:41 <Romulus> PovAddict: 47987

18:41 <PovAddict> &math calc 90512 - 66120 - 23595

18:41 <Romulus> PovAddict: 797

18:41 <zombie67> see?

18:41 <PovAddict> yep, that's if I invert what's inside

18:41 <PovAddict> same thing

18:41 <zombie67> less keystrokes

18:41 <zombie67> ;)

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18:43 <PovAddict> &seen Romulus

18:43 <Romulus> PovAddict: I have not seen Romulus.

18:43 <PovAddict> lol

18:44 <PovAddict> &math calc 90106 - (66122 + 23536)

18:44 <Romulus> PovAddict: 448

18:44 <DerMeister> I guess, Romulus needs a mirror :P

18:50 <xcamel> if romy could see himself, it would cause a bot-death-spiral, resulting in an IRC black hole.

18:50 <PovAddict> if romy could see himself, he wouldn't like it

18:50 <Tank_Master> IRC already IS a black hole

18:51 <zombie67> racist!

18:51 <xcamel> sez you..

18:51 <zombie67> damn, another meeting to call into...

18:52 <zombie67> working sucks

18:52 <Tank_Master> hf!

18:53 <xcamel> New Policy: Work or get fired.

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18:54 <Tank_Master> wdsima just got fiered

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18:56 <Tank_Master> wb

18:56 <Romulus> celeron quap and dual comparison

18:57 <xcamel> and was re-hired at a higher rate..

18:57 <Tank_Master> congratz

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19:07 <PovAddict> zombie67: could you check if you have any files in your imp project directory, on any host?

19:11 * KathrynM is back (gone 09:40:22)

19:11 <Tank_Master> wb

19:12 <Tank_Master> PovAddict: I do

19:12 <KathrynM> mornin'

19:12 <KathrynM> It's "White Day"

19:12 <KathrynM> I expect lots of chocolates from you lot.

19:12 <Tank_Master> heh

19:14 <DerMeister> Uh... I think I go to my bed...

19:15 <Tank_Master> gn DM

19:15 <wdsmia> hit 400K at lhc

19:16 <Tank_Master> not to shabby

19:18 <wdsmia> looks like another night with no  work there :(

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19:19 <PovAddict> Tank_Master: update

19:24 <Tank_Master> still there

19:25 <PovAddict> I noticed no log message saying it got deleted...

19:25 <Tank_Master> anim021.naf; libiconv-2.dll; libxml2.dll; povray_5.01_windows_intelx86.exe; zlib1.dll

19:26 <PovAddict> ah not so new...

19:26 <Tank_Master> :)

19:26 <Tank_Master> good think I posted that then...

19:26 <PovAddict> anim 21

19:26 <Tank_Master> 021

19:35 <xcamel> 1,197,253 in qmc

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19:53 <KathrynM> wow.  Huge difference between RAC and BSRAC

19:53 <KathrynM>

19:53 <Romulus> <> (at

19:58 <CoderOnTheCouch> yeow

19:58 <CoderOnTheCouch> wattupwitdat

19:58 * KathrynM shrugs

19:58 <KathrynM> dunno

19:59 <CoderOnTheCouch> and Morning =)

19:59 <KathrynM> TGIF

19:59 <CoderOnTheCouch> I look forward to it

19:59 <KathrynM> :)

20:00 * KathrynM wonders how much candy will find its way onto her desk

20:00 * KathrynM hopes it's a lot

20:00 <CoderOnTheCouch> I've lost my Coding muse this evening

20:00 <KathrynM>

20:00 <Romulus> <> (at

20:00 <KathrynM> I hope you find it soon.

20:00 <KathrynM> I never had a Coding Muse.

20:00 <CoderOnTheCouch> I need to get a-mused again

20:01 <KathrynM> Only a Coding Mocker

20:01 <KathrynM> He sits there and laughs at me.

20:01 <KathrynM> ugh 9 AM.  Time to hit the shower.

20:01 <CoderOnTheCouch> I'm off for the evening

20:01 <CoderOnTheCouch> cya all in the AM

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20:48 <PovAddict> &title

20:48 <Romulus> PovAddict: Error: The command "title" is available in the Format and Web plugins.  Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "title".

20:48 <PovAddict> &web title

20:48 <Romulus> PovAddict: Index of /pov

20:49 *** frost has quit IRC

20:49 <PovAddict> good, it's accessible then

20:52 <zombie67> back!

20:53 <zombie67> I have these files:  libiconv-2.dll

20:53 <zombie67> libxml2.dll

20:53 <Romulus> I don't think so, chmod 644 filename right?

20:53 <PovAddict> report if you have any .naf

20:54 <zombie67> no .naf

20:54 <zombie67> povray 5.01....

20:54 <PovAddict> did you crunch any for the last batch?

20:54 <zombie67> and zlib1.dll

20:54 <zombie67> what last batch?

20:54 <zombie67> or rather which last batcgh?

20:57 <PovAddict> the one y'all called too short :)

20:58 <PovAddict> the one with 420 workunits of a minute or two

21:01 <zombie67> yeah, I crunched that.  ;)

21:01 <PovAddict> then I find it strange you don't have leftover input files from it

21:01 <zombie67> I called it an appetizer.

21:02 <zombie67> this is the machine I just looked at:

21:02 <Romulus> <> (at

21:02 <zombie67> it has results from march 5

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21:03 <PovAddict> and you don't have anim012.naf?

21:03 <PovAddict> err

21:03 <PovAddict> 021*

21:04 <Tank_Master> mine is gone now

21:06 <zombie67> i'll look at another host

21:06 <PovAddict> ok thanks Tank_Master

21:06 <PovAddict> looks like the deletion *was* working

21:06 <zombie67> yes, we verified it during the run

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21:07 <zombie67> ah!

21:07 <zombie67> now this one has 3 .naf files

21:07 <PovAddic1> sheesh

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21:07 <PovAddict> Tank_Master: what's the hostid?

21:07 <zombie67> 17, 20, 21

21:07 <PovAddict> zombie67: force update

21:08 <zombie67> yep, got the request to delete, and the files were deleted

21:08 <PovAddict> ARGH

21:08 <PovAddict> I'm looking at the wrong log!

21:08 <PovAddict> they changed the name recently

21:08 <PovAddict> so cgi.log is from before the name was changed

21:08 <PovAddict> it's now scheduler.log

21:09 <PovAddict> useless change, just to annoy

21:09 <zombie67> damn admins who don't update their servers!

21:09 <PovAddict> I update and get all these silly changes

21:09 <PovAddict> this is full of deletion requests now... of course...

21:09 <PovAddict> that's why I didn't see them, wrong log

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21:13 <infinisoft> Gah, getting 3/13/2008 8:32:12 PM||[error] Error on file upload: can't open log file

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21:17 <zombie67> changing machines

21:17 <zombie67> brb

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21:24 <PovAddict> infinisoft:

21:24 <Romulus> Title: News on Project OutagesNews on Project Outages (at

21:31 *** PovAddict has quit IRC

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21:48 <infinisoft> Ah, thanks

21:49 <xcamel> poofage..

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21:54 <xcamel> laterz..

21:55 <PovAddict> later

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22:30 <zombie67> brb

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22:44 <zombie67> pov, you still awake?

22:44 <PovAddict> yup

22:44 <zombie67> what is the URL for the cc_config info again?

22:44 <PovAddict> &bw ClientMessages

22:44 <Romulus>

22:45 <zombie67> thanks!

22:45 <zombie67> I saw your little dig about cpu time, using another thread.  nice touch

22:46 <PovAddict> I think the way I said it makes it look like "uh, everyone knows that... you dont?"

22:46 <zombie67> heh

22:46 <zombie67> I want more info on my messages tab

22:47 <zombie67> back in 5.4/5.8 days, so much more useful info

22:47 <PovAddict> sched_op_debug

22:47 <PovAddict> I have collected quotes after DA removed that:

22:47 <PovAddict>

22:47 <Romulus> <> (at

22:48 <zombie67> one sounds like me

22:48 <PovAddict> one there is you

22:48 <zombie67> heh

22:49 <zombie67> okay, that flag

22:49 <zombie67> how to use?

22:49 <zombie67> the page is not clear

22:49 <zombie67> is is 0 or 1?

22:49 <PovAddict> 1 enables, 0 disables

22:50 <zombie67> okay, I thought I saw someone talking about level 3

22:50 <PovAddict> yeah, that's a totally unrelated server-side logging setting :)

22:50 <zombie67> this is what bugs me, client asks for work, tells you "got 0".  well that's nice, but WHY??

22:51 <Soul_keeper> &weather 91977

22:51 <Romulus> Soul_keeper: The current temperature in South side of Dictionary Hill, Spring Valley, California is 60.4F (7:50 PM PDT on March 13, 2008). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 55.4F. Pressure: 29.50 in 998.9 hPa (Rising).

22:51 <zombie67> will sched_op_debug tell me why?

22:51 <PovAddict> try it and see

22:52 <zombie67> done

22:52 <PovAddict> you don't need to restart the client, there is a menu item on the manager to reload cc_config

22:52 <PovAddict> probably I'm too late saying that?

22:53 <zombie67> Thu Mar 13 19:53:10 2008|Milkyway@home|[sched_op_debug] Reason: no work from project

22:53 <zombie67> Reason!  thanks

22:53 <Romulus> Ah! There's a win app just added!

22:53 <zombie67> MT?  you around?

22:53 <PovAddict> MTughan: >poke<

22:54 <zombie67> I remembered another feature I asked for, that I forgot about when he asked again.

22:54 <zombie67> when I select messages, cmd-c (like ctrl-c in win) should copy them.  Should not have to click a button.

22:57 <zombie67> ooh!  would this be possible?:  a settings pane where you can work on cc_config.xml via gui.

22:59 <zombie67> IMO, it should just be part of the perferences panel anyway.

22:59 <PovAddict> think remote connection

23:00 <PovAddict> the ideal case would be if the client generated most of the debugging info, and the manager just filtered it out

23:01 <zombie67> perhaps a separate pref panel for cc vs mgr.

23:01 <PovAddict> then you can even have multiple managers showing different messages (ie. changing filters on a remotely-connected manager doesn't affect any local one)

23:01 <PovAddict> and maybe even you tick a checkbox and it shows *past* debugging messages

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23:02 <zombie67> whatever the case, editing a text file is very 70's

23:03 <zombie67> clients need to be way more user-friendly

23:04 <PovAddict> I digged out some old povray code I wrote

23:04 <PovAddict> from my other computer

23:05 <zombie67> I was thinking about that last job...

23:05 <PovAddict> models rubik cubes, can even animate face twists

23:05 <PovAddict> last modification: march 2005

23:05 <zombie67> multi-threaded, yes?

23:05 <PovAddict> huh

23:05 <zombie67> povray

23:05 <zombie67> on win

23:06 <PovAddict> 3.7 is, but it's still a beta

23:06 <PovAddict> and also supports linux

23:06 <PovAddict> mac version of 3.7 still not out

23:06 <KathrynM> really?

23:06 <zombie67> right!  I recall the leo thing

23:06 <PovAddict> but the license terms for the *beta* are very restrictive

23:06 <KathrynM> :(

23:06 <zombie67> anyway, if you were have sent it to me, and I put it full time on one of my 8-way machines, would that have been faster?

23:06 <PovAddict> they don't want beta code to stay around in the intertubes :)

23:07 <KathrynM> well that's understandable

23:07 <PovAddict> zombie67: well, I'd take some big time to re-write all my BOINC-related patches to fit all the modifications in 3.7

23:07 <zombie67> nono

23:07 <zombie67> not boinc

23:07 * KathrynM encourages PovAddict to get to work :)

23:07 <zombie67> I mean, if I rendered it normally on one of my 8-ways

23:08 <PovAddict> well, won't really be faster than just crunching 8 WUs at a time :)

23:08 <zombie67> no, i am still not clear

23:08 <zombie67> how long in total, did it take to render via BOINC?

23:08 <zombie67> how many hours?

23:09 <zombie67> even with you forcing resends

23:09 <PovAddict> I have no idea; with short jobs it's mostly overhead

23:09 <PovAddict> waiting for clients to report, waiting for clients to stop crunching other projects

23:09 <zombie67> 4 hours?

23:09 <PovAddict> etc

23:09 <zombie67> 8 hours?

23:09 <PovAddict> maybe yeah

23:09 <Romulus> also, next time I attempted setting a mailserver, many people told me was wrong with turbo RR?

23:10 <zombie67> so, compared to that, how fast could I crunch it with a single, 8-way win box (non-BOINC).

23:10 <zombie67> ?

23:10 <PovAddict> I dunno

23:10 <PovAddict> for short jobs, probably worth it

23:10 <zombie67> right, that is what I was thinking!

23:11 <PovAddict> but last short job was really just to test how my BOINC app coped with radiosity

23:11 <zombie67> that last one was all overhead, and waiting for a slot to free up

23:11 <PovAddict> damn crazy progress reporting...

23:11 <zombie67> assume a 60min switch time

23:12 <zombie67> those minute long tasks sit for up to an hour waiting for the running tasks to switch

23:12 <PovAddict> I'd like progress on this:

23:12 <Romulus> Title: LowLatency - BOINC - Trac (at

23:12 <zombie67> like the MilkyWay problem

23:13 <PovAddict> also, using only server-side changes (no client changes needed), I could in theory send optimized apps automatically

23:13 <PovAddict> POV-Ray really gets faster enabling SSE and such

23:13 <PovAddict> I have no idea what optimizations I used on the current app

23:13 <PovAddict> probably not much

23:13 <zombie67> sounds very inetresting!

23:14 <PovAddict> one problem would be... credits >.<

23:14 <zombie67> hah!

23:14 <zombie67> here is a credit question, that last job, how many total credits were issued?

23:14 <PovAddict> let's find out!

23:14 <zombie67> I'll look on boincstats!

23:14 <zombie67> oh

23:15 <zombie67> ;

23:15 <PovAddict> or not :)

23:15 <zombie67> :)

23:16 <zombie67> still looking?

23:16 <PovAddict> 116 apparently... hmm

23:16 <zombie67> 116 credits, for all that effort?

23:17 <PovAddict> how many credits do you usually get per hour?

23:18 <zombie67> looking at that comparison spreadsheet, 114 is what my 8-way win machine claims after 22714 sec of work

23:18 <PovAddict> this was 32024 seconds of work (on machines of varying speed)

23:19 <PovAddict> average speed probably slower than your 8-way :)

23:19 <zombie67> 6.3 hours of work / cores = .79 hours of machine time

23:19 <PovAddict> and remember I just use benchmark credits

23:19 <zombie67> yep

23:20 <zombie67> that is why I went off claimed credits

23:20 <PovAddict> I could give you CPU time and credits granted for every single result, if you're interested in stats

23:21 <zombie67> sure

23:21 <zombie67> I'll give it a comparison, total, vs a particular machine of mine

23:22 <zombie67> so, assuming cpu efficiency is the same, BOINC vs single machine w/ multi-thread app, I can return the same job in less than an hour

23:23 <PovAddict>

23:23 <PovAddict> zero ones are probably canceled by server

23:23 <zombie67> so tell you what, just send me the short jobs, give me 1.5x the credits, and get the job back in 1/4 of the time!

23:26 <zombie67> 13.05 c/h

23:26 <zombie67> 16.27 c/h is seti stock

23:26 <zombie67> you suck

23:26 <zombie67> ;)

23:27 <PovAddict> if there was no such thing as cross-project parity...

23:27 <PovAddict> if projects gave credits like games give scores: arbitrarily, and non-comparable between them...

23:27 <PovAddict> things would be so much easier

23:28 <zombie67> I like the F1 ranking

23:28 <PovAddict> yup...

23:28 <zombie67> lemme look up my benchmark machine

23:28 <PovAddict> if one project gave a thousand credits per hour and another gave one credit per hour

23:28 <PovAddict> you could still compare against other members of the same project

23:28 <PovAddict> and compare your rank between projects

23:29 <zombie67> right!  compare ranks!

23:29 <PovAddict> FormulaBoinc uses rank, doesn't it?

23:29 <PovAddict> I'm #773 on Proteins

23:29 <zombie67> damn, that machine didn't get any.

23:29 <PovAddict> and #57986 in Einstein :)

23:29 <zombie67> however, I have 2 more identical boces

23:29 <zombie67> boxes

23:29 <PovAddict> I have 13k credits on proteins, and 11k credits on einstein...

23:30 <PovAddict> einstein has more users, and their users have generally more credits

23:30 <PovAddict> I guess the big question is

23:30 <PovAddict> can you really compare an hour of protein folding and an hour of prime searching?

23:30 <zombie67> all in the low-to-mid 18s c/h

23:31 <zombie67> jerk!  You inflation-creating-monster!

23:32 <zombie67> compare an hour of protein folding vs. an hour of prime searching vs. an hour of prime searching with an opt app?

23:32 <PovAddict> pacman makers won't add a 0 at the end of the score so people play pacman more than asteroids

23:32 <PovAddict> why?

23:32 <PovAddict> because people don't compare the raw score between both games

23:32 <zombie67> it's all about rank

23:32 <zombie67> the absolut number is meaningless

23:33 <PovAddict> I'm #1 at pacman, but somebody's still kicking my ass at asteroids, gotta get working on that

23:33 <zombie67> as long as 1 = 1 on the same project

23:33 <PovAddict> ooh

23:33 <PovAddict> I just noticed something

23:33 <PovAddict> it would make people spread out naturally

23:33 <PovAddict> if you compare ranks, what are the easiest projects?

23:33 <zombie67> that is the game I already play...  ;)

23:33 <PovAddict> easiest projects are those with fewer users

23:33 <zombie67> where is the low-hanging fruit?

23:33 <zombie67> exactly!

23:34 <PovAddict> and when everybody jumps on that one, it will get harder

23:34 <zombie67> that is also what drives many of the ATA crowd

23:34 <KathrynM> gotta go back to w*&%

23:34 <PovAddict> bye KathrynM

23:34 <zombie67> sorry to hear

23:34 <KathrynM> At least I'm basically not working today.  I have no voice.

23:34 <zombie67> I love DOMINATING early projects.

23:34 <PovAddict> got any chocolates yet, KathrynM?

23:34 <KathrynM> I woke up with a nasty case of largynitis (or however you spell it)

23:35 <KathrynM> lol

23:35 <KathrynM> yeah

23:35 <zombie67> sorry to hear

23:35 <PovAddict> gonna share?

23:35 <KathrynM> not on your life

23:35 <PovAddict> kthx

23:35 <Romulus> goes to do another build test :)

23:35 <zombie67> brb

23:35 * KathrynM runs out yelling "their mine mine mine!!!"

23:35 <KathrynM> errr "they're"

23:35 * PovAddict goes get some of his own

23:35 * KathrynM goes to hide in a corner

23:35 * KathrynM is away: I may still exist in an alternate reality...

23:35 <PovAddict> it's 1.30 am, as good time as any to eat some chocolate

23:36 <PovAddict> sometimes I wonder how I manage *not* to get fat

23:38 <PovAddict> back

23:38 <zombie67> you are young, that's how

23:38 <PovAddict> with some ghirardelli dark chocolate

23:39 <PovAddict> some years ago I saw some news of a kid who got arrested for making a widely-spreading virus

23:39 <zombie67> right next door...ghirardelli

23:39 <PovAddict> he was like 18

23:39 <PovAddict> had 7 computers

23:39 <PovAddict> and he was quite fat too :)

23:40 <zombie67> so yes, cross project RANKING will drive stat freaks (like me) to the smaller/newer projects

23:40 <zombie67> I can never compete with NEZ

23:40 <PovAddict> even if this is The Perfect Credit System

23:40 <PovAddict> there's a li'l problem

23:40 <PovAddict> migration

23:41 <PovAddict> what do we do with current credits?

23:41 <zombie67> Ranking is based on credits.  can't get rid of them

23:41 <zombie67> but each project publishes only rankings

23:41 <PovAddict> imagine we start from scratch

23:42 <zombie67> or just stops publishing credits

23:42 <PovAddict> prime projects give 1 point per test

23:42 <zombie67> doesn't matter

23:42 <PovAddict> I give 1 point per thousand rays traced

23:42 <zombie67> each project can have their own credit method

23:42 <PovAddict> it does matter

23:42 <zombie67> nope

23:42 <PovAddict> each project can have their own credit method, if starting from scratch

23:42 <zombie67> still doesn't matter

23:43 <PovAddict> but how do they add "their own credit method" with the existing boinc-benchmark-based credits?

23:43 <PovAddict> it matters for ranking too

23:43 <zombie67> no

23:43 <zombie67> they just continue with the same method

23:43 <zombie67> as long as they stay consistent within the project

23:44 <PovAddict> benchmarks can be cheated, etc

23:44 <zombie67> OW, they can't CHANGE the method

23:44 <zombie67> IOW

23:45 <zombie67> but that constraint exists today

23:46 <zombie67> you can convert, but it takes a method.  Like using a benchmark system to change from the standard credit method, to fixed credits

23:46 <zombie67> that is what PS3GRID for examle

23:46 <zombie67> example

23:46 <PovAddict> yep but that's because they try to make fixed credits similar to benchmark credits

23:47 <zombie67> they ran a WU on a PPC/linux box, then ran it on a PS3/linux box, found it was 16x faster, and implemented that.

23:47 <zombie67> the point is you can transition from one method to another without too much disruption.

23:48 <zombie67> but you can't change in the middle going from say, CPU to GPU counting

23:48 <PovAddict> what did they do with credits on seti classic -> boinc switch?

23:48 <zombie67> trashed it all together

23:48 <PovAddict> sounds tempting

23:48 <PovAddict> bwahahaha

23:48 <zombie67> sure.

23:48 <PovAddict> >:)

23:48 <PovAddict> (:<

23:49 <zombie67> but moving to a cross-project ranking need not bee as drastic.

23:49 <zombie67> just stop exporting credits

23:49 <zombie67> only export ranks

23:49 <PovAddict> I was thinking about something more drastic...

23:49 <zombie67> then it no longer matters how projects award credits

23:50 <PovAddict> it would be a lot easier for projects to give credits in arbitrary units incompatible with current credits, like number of primes tested

23:50 <PovAddict> which may be an order of magnitude off current credits

23:51 <zombie67> sure

23:51 <PovAddict> then if somebody makes a completely different algorithm giving the same results faster

23:51 <zombie67> they could do that right away

23:51 <PovAddict> you still have some unit to measure the work it does

23:51 <zombie67> the only issue is WITHIN the project

23:51 <zombie67> it is not a cross-project issur

23:51 <zombie67> issue

23:51 <PovAddict> if they do that right away, it stops being compatible with credits *within* the project, before the change

23:52 <zombie67> jinx

23:52 <PovAddict> I wasn't talking about separate projects

23:52 <zombie67> me neither

23:52 <PovAddict> you seemed to assume I was :)

23:53 <zombie67> that is what I was talking about when I was talking about using a benchmark method to transition from one method to another

23:55 <zombie67> that is effectively what seti did.  they moved to count fops, by making the count roughly equal the stock BOINC method

23:55 <PovAddict> yep

23:55 <zombie67> and they just keep modifying the multiplier

23:55 <PovAddict> but if a lot of people use optimized apps, they'd overgrant

23:55 <zombie67> not overgrant!  make faster!

23:56 <zombie67> if I do 2x the work/time period, I should get 2x the credits

23:56 <zombie67> oh!

23:56 <zombie67> sorry

23:56 <zombie67> misread what you wronte

23:56 <PovAddict> "overgrant" compared to other projects (currently)

23:56 <zombie67> yes

23:56 <PovAddict> on the current fscked-up system :)

23:57 * PovAddict unplugs his mouse

23:58 *** infinisoft has quit IRC

23:58 <zombie67> I loved the old lotus 123.  No mouse at all.  all keyboard and arrow keys.

23:59 <PovAddict> let's see how long I survive

23:59 <PovAddict> at least, I'll get used to some keyboard tasks, maybe even learn some new keyboard shortcuts in Eclipse

23:59 <zombie67> WAY faster than excel/OOo with REQUIRES you use the mouse

23:59 <PovAddict> and by the time I plug it back, I'll need it less :)

23:59 <zombie67> Eclipse?

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