IRC logs of #boinc for Wednesday, 2008-04-16

00:03 <MTughan> &cad

00:03 <Romulus> http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php

00:03 <MTughan> &xkcd

00:03 <Romulus> http://www.xkcd.com/

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01:34 <d00m1001> (sigh)

01:34 <d00m1001> I want to be rewarded.

01:34 * Wabbit67 hands d00m1001 a cookie

01:34 <d00m1001> (:

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03:47 <keeeg_wrk> :X

04:28 <KathrynM> woo hoo!  My new bed is here!  No more sleeping on a matress with busted springs

04:37 <CoderForLife> woot

04:38 <efc> zZZZZ

04:38 <CoderForLife> mornings are difficult

04:38 <Romulus> There is, but not reading them all.

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05:24 <CoderForLife> &wx 45140

05:24 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Temperature: 37.9F / 3.3C | Humidity: 69% | Pressure: 29.83in / 1010.0hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: West | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Today - Areas of frost this morning. Sunny. Highs around 70. South winds 10 to 15 mph.; Tonight - Clear. Lows in the mid 40s. South winds 10 to 15 mph... decreasing to around 5 mph after midnight.; Thursday - Mostly sunny. Highs in the (1 more message)

05:24 <CoderForLife> &more

05:24 <Romulus> CoderForLife: lower 70s. Southwest winds 5 to 10 mph.; Frost Advisory for Hamilton County in effect until 9:00 AM EDT on April 16, 2008;

05:25 <Romulus> I wore him out looking for a random...

05:25 <CoderForLife> I bet

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05:32 <CoderForLife> will bb b4 leaving for w@#%

05:32 <Romulus> hmm, create work can't find job.xml

05:33 <CoderForLife> tell it to look harder for a job

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05:57 * KathrynM is back (gone 06:12:22)

06:06 <CoderForLife> back

06:06 <CoderForLife> morning KathrynM

06:06 <KathrynM> mornin' CoderForLife

06:06 <KathrynM> how goes the Coding?

06:07 <CoderForLife> OK - running my latest Code at w@#% - ran into a new error - as expected, but not as desired

06:07 <KathrynM> if there weren't errors, it wouldn't be Code

06:08 <CoderForLife> correct

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06:08 <CoderForLife> there's always one more bug

06:08 <KathrynM> my life is one big bug

06:08 <CoderForLife> this one is interesting

06:09 <CoderForLife> I'm opening, reading, writing and closing a file a thousand times - suddenly an open fails with "permission denied"

06:09 <KathrynM> what's locking it?

06:09 <CoderForLife> ... if I knew that ...

06:10 <KathrynM> :)

06:10 <CoderForLife> could be backup software

06:10 <KathrynM> Yeah I know.  I'm really helpful.

06:10 <CoderForLife> could be anti-virus scan

06:10 <CoderForLife> could be my program opened it but didn't close it

06:10 <CoderForLife> could be because it was Tax Day

06:11 <KathrynM> I knew it was the government's fault

06:11 <KathrynM> brb

06:11 <CoderForLife> Bush's fault

06:14 <KathrynM> k

06:15 <CoderForLife> I must be @ff

06:15 <KathrynM> have fun

06:15 <KathrynM> or as much as you can

06:15 <CoderForLife> tc   have a nice evening

06:16 <CoderForLife> I will kill this little buggy today

06:16 * CoderForLife waves a fly swatter

06:57 <Aruzo> \o/

06:57 <Aruzo> just got a job from local nuclear plant

06:58 <desti> \o/

06:58 * desti explodes

06:58 <Romulus> so whats the problem

06:58 <Aruzo> my job is to clean the radioactive reactor pool while the facility is in "service pause"

06:58 <Aruzo> expect to have a third arm on december :D

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06:59 <KathrynM> yay!

06:59 <KathrynM> to the job, not the third arm :)

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06:59 <Aruzo> :D

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08:45 <kdb> good morning

08:45 <KathrynM> mornin

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09:17 <corky> hi all

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10:13 * KathrynM is away: I may still exist in an alternate reality...

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11:22 <Tank_Master> whered you guys go?

11:25 * Ageless_93[zzzz] waves from his side of the tunnel

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11:25 <Didactylos> Ageless93: FreeNode won't let me PM.

11:26 <Ageless93> you're not using a registered nick then?

11:26 <Tank_Master> to PM, you need to register your nick

11:26 <Didactylos> Either somebody stole it, or I forgot the password.

11:27 <Ageless93> damn thieves

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11:51 <desti> http://www.flickr.com/photos/shawhu/2276846342/sizes/o/

11:51 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/5fbxdk> (at www.flickr.com)

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13:06 <Didactylos> There. Now my nick is MINE! *muahahah* etc.

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14:10 <kdb> bathroom reading: http://invitro.umassmed.edu/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=distributed_computing

14:10 <Romulus> Title: distributed_computing [Wiki] (at invitro.umassmed.edu)

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14:47 <nickuwo> dammit, BOINC is tempermental

14:56 <PovAddict> what's going on now?

14:57 <nickuwo> I broke it

14:57 <nickuwo> killed my assimilator before it was ok to do so

14:58 <nickuwo> scheduler not giving out any work ne more.... working on restarting it

14:58 * PovAddict grabs his J2EE book

14:59 * nickuwo knows that it's not BOINC's fault

14:59 <nickuwo> hehe

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16:44 <CoderForLife> hello

16:44 <CoderForLife> &wx 45140

16:44 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Temperature: 73.1F / 22.8C | Humidity: 34% | Pressure: 30.03in / 1016.8hPa (Falling) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: South | Wind Speed: 8.1mph / 13.0km/h ; Tonight - Clear. Lows in the mid 40s. South winds 10 to 15 mph.; Thursday - Sunny. Highs in the lower 70s. Southwest winds 5 to 10 mph.; Thursday Night - Clear. Lows in the upper 40s. South winds 5 to 10 mph.;

16:44 <CoderForLife> Purrrrfect

16:45 <PovAddict> :o

16:45 <CoderForLife> I'm excited about your J2EE book

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17:03 <CoderForLife> outside to do a little bit of yard chores, before Coding

17:08 *** Ageless_93[zzzz] is now known as Ageless93

17:08 * Ageless93 is no longer away : Gone for 5 hours 41 minutes 38 seconds

17:09 * Ageless93 yawns and stretches

17:09 <Romulus> efc: I said something about needing to ask questions. I always watch the easter bunny vid - it'll raise your spirits..

17:09 <PovAddict> Ageless93: is your computer clock right?

17:09 <PovAddict> [Ageless93 TIME reply]: 04-16-2008 23:09:26

17:10 <Ageless93> sure it is, I just had the atomic clock add a minute 7 seconds to the clock

17:10 * KathrynM is back (gone 06:57:12)

17:11 <PovAddict> waking up at 11pm?

17:11 <PovAddict> hey KathrynM

17:11 <Ageless93> inputting work for Hydrogen by hand is stiffening

17:11 <KathrynM> mornin'

17:11 <KathrynM> 0611

17:11 <KathrynM> been up since 530

17:11 <PovAddict> geez

17:12 <KathrynM> My new bed sux

17:12 <PovAddict> you need to do something about that insomnia

17:12 <KathrynM> I think my floor is softer

17:12 <PovAddict> (*not* sleeping pills)

17:12 <KathrynM> someone whack me on the head?

17:12 <Ageless93> put 5 towels down

17:12 <KathrynM> I"m gonna look for a pad tomorrow at the store

17:13 <PovAddict> ooo me me me me!

17:13 * PovAddict runs after KathrynM with a hammer

17:13 <KathrynM> lol

17:13 <PovAddict> speaking of whacking people on the head

17:13 <KathrynM> uh oh

17:13 <PovAddict> Mikus hasn't been around on the mailing lists recently, has he?

17:14 <KathrynM> no

17:14 <Ageless93> April 11

17:14 <PovAddict> Milkyway is giving too much credits

17:14 <KathrynM> yup

17:15 <PovAddict> I have been running milkyway and NQueens and a bunch of other projects

17:15 <PovAddict> same resource share, all starting with reset debts

17:15 <PovAddict> http://stuff.povaddict.com.ar/credits.png

17:15 <PovAddict> orange line is MW

17:16 <Ageless93> nice graph for the colourblind. which one is pink?

17:16 <Ageless93> or ornage...

17:16 <PovAddict> blue is Cels, which didn't have constant work, so ignore that one

17:16 <KathrynM> I'm claiming 1.71 and getting 4.06

17:16 <PovAddict> Ageless93: I just took a screenshot of the manager

17:16 <Ageless93> figures

17:16 <PovAddict> MW is the one with steeper slope :)

17:17 <KathrynM> http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/show_host_detail.php?hostid=12078

17:17 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/58fdj4> (at milkyway.cs.rpi.edu)

17:17 <Ageless93> so you have been getting all this work when no one else could

17:17 <KathrynM> http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/results.php?hostid=12997

17:17 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/5ellob> (at milkyway.cs.rpi.edu)

17:17 <KathrynM> even better 1.59/4.06

17:18 <PovAddict> checking other random hosts

17:18 <PovAddict> claim of 1.9

17:18 <PovAddict> claim of 2.2

17:18 <PovAddict> 1.53

17:18 <PovAddict> another with avg 1.53

17:18 * KathrynM wishes they'd bring back the results column on the new host page

17:18 <PovAddict> 1.35!

17:19 <PovAddict> 1.8

17:19 <PovAddict> yeah, 4.06 is definitely too high a grant

17:19 <KathrynM> suggest it and then pull out your fire extinguisher

17:19 <PovAddict> ...is it that bad?

17:19 <KathrynM> oh yeah

17:20 <KathrynM> they cut it from 6 to 2

17:20 <KathrynM> and the crap hit the fan

17:20 <KathrynM> but 2 is about right

17:21 <KathrynM> http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/forum_thread.php?id=266

17:21 <Romulus> Title: updated granted credit (at milkyway.cs.rpi.edu)

17:22 <Ageless93> um... Seti.USA did a walkout.

17:22 <KathrynM> surprised?

17:22 <Ageless93> no

17:27 <PovAddict> that thread just proves how users *do* run to high-credit projects

17:27 <KathrynM> yup

17:27 <PovAddict> there's some people saying "stop caring about cross-project parity, there is no proof that users leave to projects with high credits"

17:28 <KathrynM> start compiling a list of threads showing that people can and will

17:28 <PovAddict> you saw my solution already

17:29 <KathrynM> yeah

17:29 <PovAddict> make project credits more different than they already are

17:30 <PovAddict> but don't add them up

17:30 <PovAddict> it will be pointless for people to move to high-paying projects to increase their total... because there will be no total

17:32 * KathrynM is going to try getting a few more hours of sleep

17:32 * KathrynM is away: I may still exist in an alternate reality...

17:34 <Ageless93> hey, but I like my total...

17:34 <PovAddict> I know

17:34 <Ageless93> as far as I care about credits. Which is about as far as I can spit, against the wind.

17:34 <PovAddict> but to be able to add up credits, you need them all to be in the same unit ("currency")

17:35 <PovAddict> and that's just impossible

17:35 <PovAddict> http://stuff.povaddict.com.ar/boinc/credit/optimized-apps.txt

17:35 <Ageless93> the day I see credits in the same money scroller set against the dollar, euro and yen, is the day it'll get my attention

17:40 <PovAddict> do you see any solution to the problem in my link above?

17:41 <Ageless93> sorry was occupied elsewhere... with JM7's meth errors. ;)

17:41 <Ageless93> will read yours now

17:45 <Ageless93> as long as the software is open source, I don't see any good solution

17:46 <Ageless93> you can't make the benchmarks only be used for an estimate of how long a task will take, as someone somewhere will always add the code back.

17:47 <Ageless93> you can't put in one multiplier for all projects to use as someone will always change it.

17:47 <Ageless93> you can't do a lot more as someone will always change it for their own (perceived) good.

17:48 <Ageless93> so the solution is to leave BOINC open source (perhaps?) but the development of the applications strictly closed source.

17:48 <Ageless93> but that'll cost money

17:49 * Ageless93 goes making a cup of tea

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17:56 <PovAddict> that will not only cost money

17:56 <PovAddict> but also won't encourage users to do optimizations

17:57 <PovAddict> with my suggestion (drop cross-project parity completely), open source won't be a problem

17:57 <Ageless93> they probably can but under a strict NDA

17:57 <PovAddict> credits will always be computed server-side

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17:57 <PovAddict> no need for benchmarks, as they are essentially all fixed credits

17:57 <Ageless93> look at how Einstein is doing it.

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18:05 <PovAddict> ...how does Einstein do it?

18:05 <PovAddict> or, where am I supposed to "look"?

18:06 <Ageless93> most of the development of the application is done by Bernd, but some is done by a user.

18:06 <PovAddict> well I'm not saying everybody should go open source

18:06 <Ageless93> or some users, that's a bit unclear. I've done some closed testing in the past.

18:07 <PovAddict> just saying closing the source of all apps is not a credit solution

18:08 <Ageless93> but at least they're putting up applications for people to test. See what it does. Only the Power Users apps won't make it into the public release as they are highly optimized

18:08 <Ageless93> but the earlier 'normally optimized' app did make it to the public. It only does SSE

18:08 <Ageless93> as far as I know...

18:09 <PovAddict> with the server development towards coprocessor support, it should be possible for a project to keep official optimized versions, and send them according to what the user's CPU supports

18:09 <Ageless93> no, it's not a credit solution, I know that, but it hampers users into going after the credit again by stripping the app or making it highly optimized, without regards of the actual science.

18:09 <PovAddict> ...except doing that will make credits asplode

18:10 <Ageless93> the one user at Einstein had made his own optimized app from the normal Einstein app, by reverse engineering it.

18:10 <Ageless93> in doing so, he wrecked the ability of the app to do good science.

18:10 <Ageless93> a whole run had to be rerun...

18:10 <Ageless93> as a lot of people were already using this app

18:10 <Ageless93> all for speed and credits.

18:11 <PovAddict> well, nothing stops me from making my own app from scratch that outputs pure junk taking 1 second to run and using it on Einstein

18:11 <PovAddict> the project should be using a good validator to avoid that

18:12 <Ageless93> sure.

18:12 <Ageless93> but at least recognizing this person's capabilities they took him on board for the development of the next apps.

18:13 <Ageless93> something that crunch3r apparently still dreams about... ;)

18:14 <PovAddict> anyway, from a credit standpoint, optimized apps and cross-project parity are incompatible

18:14 <Ageless93> also with fixed credits all over the place?

18:15 <PovAddict> what if somebody designs a piece of *hardware* that crunches one SETI WU per minute? should he get banned and called a cheater?

18:15 <PovAddict> (of course, assume that piece of hardware has absolutely valid results)

18:15 <Ageless93> spread over 36 processors...

18:16 <PovAddict> if somebody finds a way to crunch a hundred times faster, should he get a hundred times more credits? I think he should

18:16 <Ageless93> but what if all projects take a stand and say, come May 1st we will give everyone 10 credits for a returned task.

18:16 *** KathrynM has quit IRC

18:16 <CoderForLife> re-hi

18:16 <PovAddict> well

18:16 <PovAddict> two problems there

18:17 * CoderForLife looks around

18:17 <Ageless93> does it then still matter how long I took to crunch that task?

18:17 <CoderForLife> I see PovAddict and Ageless93

18:17 <Ageless93> all that credit per hour is giving me the creeps

18:17 <PovAddict> no, it doesn't matter, as long as you forget about the "combined-across-projects total"

18:17 <Ageless93> and CPDN

18:18 * CoderForLife thinks - they're safely ignoring me

18:18 <PovAddict> CoderForLife: you're free to join the credit discussion, under your own risk

18:18 <Ageless93> lol... hi CFL

18:18 <CoderForLife> _o/

18:18 <Ageless93> it's better than gardening

18:18 <CoderForLife> sounds dangerous

18:18 <CoderForLife> but safer than my property outside

18:19 <CoderForLife> just finished marking off the landscape plants that I *don't* want the backhoe guy to drive over or rip out

18:19 <Ageless93> ok, so come May 1st all projects (except CPDN) say they will abolish the cross project credits and give every computer that returns a task 10 credit.

18:20 <Ageless93> sounds a bit like Seti classic

18:20 * CoderForLife nods

18:20 <PovAddict> Ageless93: then come May 1st all stats sites should stop adding up credits from different projects

18:20 <PovAddict> and... gotta do something with credits granted previously

18:20 <Ageless93> but it's got something... ;)

18:21 <Ageless93> Nick, no, that's just another table in the database, just as with Seti Classic credits.

18:21 <Ageless93> before May 1st credits... xxxxx

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18:21 <PovAddict> so, a reset?

18:21 <Ageless93> and new ones, which are added up to the previous ones, but really started from zero.

18:21 <Ageless93> just like your team hopping credits do

18:22 <Ageless93> I do not want to be around when all projects reset credits.

18:22 <PovAddict> quoting SETI forum, from somebody with a similar idea:

18:22 <PovAddict> "Count WUs again. Forget credits. Forget parity. People can say "I've done 10 CPDN WUs" and everyone will known that's a big accomplishment. Someone says "I've done 10 Milkyway WUs" and you get a "So what did you do the next hour?" You don't have to compare the two accomnplishments in a numerical format."

18:23 <Ageless93> I tjink it'll be very busy on the beach over where xcamel is when they do that ;)

18:23 <PovAddict> people can still compete using their rank

18:23 <PovAddict> which has an additional advantage

18:23 <Ageless93> ok, what is the first thing BOINC was set up for?

18:24 <PovAddict> on which projects is it easier to get a high rank?

18:24 <Ageless93> what is the second?

18:24 <Ageless93> first was the science, I thought. Second was to give people an incentive to 'race' eachother.

18:25 <PovAddict> yep

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18:25 <Ageless93> you ask me, who doesn't care about credits, where most can be ill-gotten? :)

18:25 <Ageless93> ABC and MW

18:25 <Ageless93> or just run lots and lots of Primegrids

18:26 <Ageless93> they only run for 5 minutes or less

18:26 <Romulus> next you can change it, 1 sec

18:26 <PovAddict> primegrid credits seem ok to me; do you think they're high?

18:27 <Ageless93> is not what I said.

18:27 <Ageless93> only if you want to feel like you got something at the end of the day, run PG LLRs

18:27 <PovAddict> oh you mean if we count WUs?

18:27 <Ageless93> or credit

18:28 <Ageless93> I am not talking credit per hour

18:28 <Ageless93> I leave that to the geeks

18:28 <PovAddict> if a project with small WUs gives the same credit/wu than one with much longer WUs

18:28 <PovAddict> it still won't matter if people don't try to compare their credits across projects

18:29 <PovAddict> think arcade videogames... each has its own "currency" for the score and there is no point in comparing them

18:29 <Ageless93> ok, so what is a solution then? have a set multiplier and means of crunching the data?

18:29 <PovAddict> would it be worth the effort to try giving the same score per minute of playing?

18:30 <Ageless93> whether you get 10 credits for each banana rescued in Mario or 10,000 in Mario 5, does it matter?

18:31 <Ageless93> at the end of the day you still can't take them home and do something with them.

18:31 <Ageless93> ok...

18:31 <Ageless93> a thought coming.

18:31 <PovAddict> if that's the scoring, it would be retarded for somebody to say "I have more credits in Mario 5 than you do in Mario"

18:31 <Ageless93> something in that games thing and not being able to take them home. What happens when you, say, finish the game and restart it?

18:31 <Ageless93> your credits get reset.

18:32 <PovAddict> hmm yes

18:32 <Ageless93> so.. projects give credits per year, end of the year, reset and start again. That an idea?

18:32 <Ageless93> or will we all flock to xcamel's beach again?

18:32 <PovAddict> well, it's definitely an interesting idea to consider

18:33 <Ageless93> now to find a good end of the year date.

18:33 <Ageless93> do you still want to keep the hi-scores of  last year?

18:34 <PovAddict> it would make sense to do so

18:34 <Ageless93> I see a problem...

18:34 <PovAddict> interesting good point of your idea: somebody who crunched with a huge farm for a year, but now quit BOINC, won't be high for much longer

18:34 <Ageless93> those forums that require you to have a minimum RAC ;)

18:34 <PovAddict> heh well

18:35 <PovAddict> projects would need to adjust their forum RAC limit to match their arbitrary currency

18:35 <Ageless93> or have a nice quiet week per year.

18:35 <PovAddict> oh that

18:35 <PovAddict> well...

18:36 <PovAddict> considering RAC is decayed, I think it wouldn't be a problem to leave it

18:36 <PovAddict> ie. don't reset RAC

18:37 <Ageless93> or don't reset it completely to zero. Only new comers and those who left for a while, then returned, have it below the minimum needed.

18:38 <PovAddict> I really don't see any downside to leaving RAC alone; if somebody stops crunching minutes before his total credit is reset, his RAC will then decay over the week just as it would if the total credit is left alone

18:38 <PovAddict> total credit isn't used when calculating RAC

18:38 <Ageless93> Does that cover cross project parity? I think it will. It covers totals as well.

18:39 <Ageless93> and it then doesn't matter how much credit projects give out per minute or hour.

18:39 <PovAddict> what do you mean?

18:39 <PovAddict> with what we're discussing, are project credits independent?

18:40 <Ageless93> if your credits are reset at the end of the crunching year, does it really matter how much you catch?

18:40 <PovAddict> it does, along the year...

18:40 *** BadBarbarian has joined #boinc

18:40 <PovAddict> your idea and mine aren't mutually exclusive though

18:40 <Ageless93> ok, I am not saying one project issues out 10 while the other does 100, as we know where everyone but me will be

18:41 <Soul_keeper> the disparity can be as large as 2 to 1 in my experience

18:41 <Ageless93> I am not sure if the idea is really mine... the answer has been with Seti all this time.

18:42 <PovAddict> Soul_keeper: if there was no such thing as a "total" adding up different projects, would that disparity matter?

18:42 <BadBarbarian> Howdy

18:42 <Soul_keeper> guess not

18:43 <Ageless93> as when people complain that they want their Seti classic Wus converted to credits, the answer they usually get is the comparison to sports games, where the season ends and all points are stored while the next season they start from zero again

18:43 <PovAddict> when SETI classic ended, lots of people never moved to BOINC

18:43 <Soul_keeper> i'd like to just run all my projects at once .... but i have to suspend seti and einstein for months at a time in order to have WCG catch up to it's 33% share of my RAC

18:43 <PovAddict> but how many new people joined BOINC since then?

18:45 <Ageless93> well, I am sure I never saw you on Seti Classic, so that's one...

18:45 <PovAddict> definitely

18:45 <Ageless93> :)

18:45 <Ageless93> I leave the numbers for the stats sites

18:45 <PovAddict> when I found SETI@Home, I went to download it, and there was a big warning saying "this is the OLD client, don't download it; we moved to BOINC now, get it *here*"

18:46 <Soul_keeper> i ran seti classic from 98 till it ended

18:48 <Ageless93> I quickly jumped over to BOINC Beta and swore at the Astropulse work units that would take days on my poor P2.

18:48 * PovAddict is experimenting with SETI@Home stats exports

18:49 <PovAddict> stats sites currently need to download 334MB of compressed XML every day; I can lower that down to 25MB

18:50 <Ageless93> just 7zip it or use the new RAR

18:50 <Ageless93> but alas, BOINC doesn't do 7zip... or RAR :(

18:50 <PovAddict> this is something more complex

18:51 <PovAddict> a diff between yesterday's and today's stats

18:51 <PovAddict> taking host stats only:

18:51 <PovAddict> currently, stats sites need to download 277MB of compressed XML, and extract it (getting 1.86GB)

18:51 <PovAddict> every day

18:52 <Ageless93> and then there are some stats sites that say they update 4 times a day

18:52 <PovAddict> it can be done so they download a X MB compressed delta, extract it (getting 20.8MB), use it to patch the 2

18:52 <Ageless93> wonderful

18:52 <PovAddict> danb

18:52 <PovAddict> ...

18:53 <PovAddict> it can be done so they download a 18MB compressed delta, extract it (getting 20.8MB), and use it to patch the 1.8GB file from the previous day

18:53 <PovAddict> then updating more frequently than once a day becomes feasible

18:54 <Ageless93> lol... write the code, add it to Trac, see it disappear as not wanted

18:54 <PovAddict> in addition, the current XML format is quite inefficient

18:54 <PovAddict> there are things like this repeated thousands of times:

18:54 <PovAddict> "Professional Edition, Service Pack 2, (05.01.2600.00)"

18:55 <PovAddict> "AMD Duron(tm) processor [x86 Family 6 Model 7 Stepping 0]"

18:55 <PovAddict> I doubt gzip catches all of those redundancies

18:55 <PovAddict> over the million SETI hosts, there are like a thousand unique platform strings

18:56 <PovAddict> it would make sense to have all platforms at the beginning of the file, then for each host just say "platform #42 from the list"

18:56 <PovAddict> ie. a lookup table

18:57 <Ageless93> it would make sense...

18:58 <PovAddict> I'm doing the search again with latest stats export

18:58 * Ageless93 picks himself up from the floor after laughing so hard he ended up there

18:58 <PovAddict> 1869472 hosts

19:00 <PovAddict> 35 unique os_name strings!

19:00 <PovAddict> if you take duplicates out, it goes from 77MB of operating system names to 2KB :)

19:01 <PovAddict> http://pastebin.ca/987774 <- stats

19:01 <Ageless93> add 36. Unknown

19:02 <PovAddict> now CPU vendor names

19:02 <Ageless93> but really. when was the last time you saw anything in BOINC make sense? A friendship list anyone?

19:04 *** infinisoft has joined #boinc

19:05 <PovAddict> 1336 unique p_vendors

19:12 <Ageless93> half of which can easily be grouped together as just Penitum 4 or whatever. Who really needs all the stepping and models?

19:12 <Ageless93> it's not as if we ever look at what front side bus someone's CPU runs at and if need be, we can ask and look it up

19:12 <PovAddict> actually

19:12 <PovAddict> top 4:

19:12 <PovAddict> 1161438     <p_vendor>GenuineIntel</p_vendor>

19:12 <PovAddict> 533143     <p_vendor>AuthenticAMD</p_vendor>

19:12 <PovAddict>   65266     <p_vendor>Power Macintosh</p_vendor>

19:12 <PovAddict>   11236     <p_vendor>i386</p_vendor>

19:13 <PovAddict> of the rest, most contain things like CPU frequency... I think some old BOINC version was mixing up that data into the p_vendor when it actually shouldn't

19:13 * KathrynM_ is back (gone 01:14:22)

19:13 *** KathrynM_ is now known as KathrynM

19:19 *** MacG_ has quit IRC

19:19 *** MacG has joined #boinc

19:20 <Ageless93> finished sleeping?

19:20 <Ageless93> again?

19:21 <CoderForLife> she keeps coming back

19:21 <CoderForLife> why, I don't know

19:22 <CoderForLife> could it be that somehow we pass as a more mature audience?

19:22 <Ageless93> I think it's the guinea pig walking over her keyboard that woke the PC up

19:22 * KathrynM is a glutton for punishment

19:22 <CoderForLife> or do we just "bring her down" for the day ahead

19:22 <CoderForLife> watch out - that's a trained attack GP

19:23 <Ageless93> want a wake up thread? there's two at Seti that'll have you laughing or crying, depending on your mood

19:23 <CoderForLife> didn't you notice the spiked collar?

19:23 <KathrynM> lol

19:23 <Ageless93> my GP will eat hers raw

19:23 <KathrynM> It's like this.  This place is like an allergy shot.

19:23 <CoderForLife> and those front incisors are not to be taken lightly

19:23 <KathrynM> It desensitizes me against all the randomness in Korea.

19:24 <KathrynM> tell me about it.  I think she bit all the way through my thumb the other day

19:24 * CoderForLife smiles for the camera and holds up the peace symbol

19:24 <PovAddict> eeek

19:24 <Ageless93> better the thumb than the eletrical wire

19:24 <KathrynM> hehe...  ask my brother about fuzzy creatures eating electical wires

19:24 <KathrynM> that's why he has a mac book now

19:24 <Ageless93> I noticed earlier today that the electrical wire to my VCR was bare

19:24 <CoderForLife> electickle wires?

19:25 <Ageless93> so until I manage to hide those wires completely, both animals are restricted to their cages

19:25 <CoderForLife> I bet they tickle

19:25 * CoderForLife has found a path on this PC at work that blew up his scanner

19:26 <CoderForLife> it's 254 characters long, and I appended "*.ASPX" on it, and roasted by buffer overflow check

19:26 <Ageless93> called a USB port?

19:26 <CoderForLife> nope

19:26 <CoderForLife> er, you asking me?

19:27 <CoderForLife> by=my

19:27 <Ageless93> yes

19:27 <Ageless93> who else was typing?

19:27 <CoderForLife> path lengths are supposed to be 260 characters max

19:27 <CoderForLife> you were - about wires

19:27 <Ageless93> I only have one person here on ignore and he's not around anyway ;)

19:27 <PovAddict> depends on the filesystem

19:27 <CoderForLife> Windoze

19:28 <CoderForLife> of korse

19:28 *** efc has joined #boinc

19:28 <PovAddict> Ageless93: btw, my example about hardware doing SETI WUs super-fast wasn't so theoretical

19:29 <efc> Moo

19:29 <Ageless93> http://boinc.berkeley.edu/dev/forum_thread.php?id=2613 one for CFL.

19:29 <Romulus> Title: How Do I Optimize BOINC Cruching For A Dedicated ComputerHow Do I Optimize BOINC Cruching For A Dedicated Computer (at boinc.berkeley.edu)

19:29 <CoderForLife> hello efc

19:30 <CoderForLife> what's in that one for me, Ageless93?

19:30 <Ageless93> Nick, no I know that. As long as the task can be crunched in sequence on multiple CPUs. perhaps.

19:30 <Ageless93> he's using Windows ME

19:30 <Ageless93> there's a challenge

19:31 <PovAddict> Ageless93: efc is working on SETI-on-FPGAs

19:31 <efc> very slowly :)

19:31 <CoderForLife> no, there's a spacetime coordinate devoid of intelligent life

19:31 <Ageless93> I read about that, the FPGAs

19:32 <Ageless93> and was wondering what it stood for. Flip Processor Graphics Adapter.

19:33 <Ageless93> Fast Processing Graphics Adapter?

19:33 <PovAddict> field-programmable gate array

19:33 <efc> old, naive diagram: http://home.earthlink.net/~cottongim/Seti@HomeFlowchartHardware2.jpg

19:33 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/6jzaud> (at home.earthlink.net)

19:34 <Ageless93> ah yes, so it is parallel crunching... (what I meant when I mistakenly typed in sequence twice. At least I am consistent)

19:35 <efc> low level parallism I guess you'd call it

19:35 <efc> Generally the problem with the boxes in those diagrams is they tend to outrun their memory interfaces

19:36 <Ageless93> meaning?

19:37 <efc> The FPGAs can compute faster than you can pump data in and out

19:37 <efc> So, you try to get around that, but it can be a problem. They don't have a lot of on-chip RAM.

19:38 <MTughan> Dude, that's a big bunny...

19:38 <MTughan> http://peach.blender.org/wp-content/uploads/big_big_buck_bunny.jpg

19:38 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/6oa5d6> (at peach.blender.org)

19:38 <MTughan> 3544x5216 pixels.

19:39 <Ageless93> so Eddie, they aren't PCs then, but dedicated hardware?

19:40 <efc> Yes, its basically a whole-lot-o-logic gates that you can configure.

19:41 <efc> They use them in the SERENDIP receiver to help process the data for workunits, for example (it needs some preprocessing before it goes on the tapes, I think)

19:41 <PovAddict> it's thousands of very low-level hardware bits that you can plug together programmatically

19:41 <PovAddict> I wonder if you can build an x86 with them :P

19:41 <Ageless93> can't that thing be used for nitpicker

19:42 <efc> Yeah, you could fit a couple 8086s on a cheap one most likely

19:42 <efc> The high end ones come with a PowerPC core (or more) built in

19:42 <PovAddict> ohh interesting

19:42 <PovAddict> so you could do things like XML parsing in there (which are a PITA to do in hardware)

19:42 <efc> That would be awfully nice.. since not everything has to be super-parellel-fast. But those cost in the $1000s range.

19:43 <efc> Yes, things like that, or the if-then parts of the code, which is really most of the code in S@H

19:47 *** xcamel_mx has joined #boinc

19:47 <efc> What I've done so far.. it compiles (VHDL) but I think it would be a monstrosity if synthesized

19:47 <MTughan> 'lo Jay

19:47 <efc> moo X

19:48 <CoderForLife> hello mexico

19:49 <Ageless93> ok, off to play some Painkiller before going to bed later on. laterz all

19:49 * xcamel_mx peeks in

19:49 <xcamel_mx> 96F today

19:49 *** Ageless93 is now known as Ageless_93[zzzz]

19:49 * Ageless_93[zzzz] is now away - Reason : Painkiller - The Asylum

19:50 <xcamel_mx> some nice time at playa tecolote

19:51 <wdsmia> *lo Jay

19:51 <xcamel_mx> &wx MMLP

19:51 <Romulus> xcamel_mx: Temperature: 95°F / 35°C | Humidity: 25% | Pressure: 29.80in / 1009hPa | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: North | Wind Speed: 12mph / 18km/h | Updated: 4:48 PM MDT; Clear. High:86 F. / 30 C.; Clear. Low:59 F. / 15 C.; Clear. High:95 F. / 35 C.; Clear. Low:59 F. / 15 C.; Clear. High:91 F. / 33 C.; Clear. Low:59 F. / 15 C.;

19:51 <xcamel_mx> 'lo Doug

19:51 <wdsmia> &wx 50319

19:51 <Romulus> wdsmia: Temperature: 72.2F / 22.3C | Humidity: 41% | Pressure: 29.74in / 1007.0hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Overcast | Wind Direction: WNW | Wind Speed: 4.0mph / 6.4km/h ; Tonight - Partly cloudy in the evening...then mostly cloudy with a 50 percent chance of showers and thunderstorms after midnight. Low in the mid 40s. Northwest wind 10 to 15 mph shifting to the north after midnight.; Thursday - Showers and (1 more message)

19:52 <wdsmia> &more

19:52 <Romulus> wdsmia: thunderstorms. Much cooler. High around 50. Northeast wind 10 to 15 mph with gusts to around 25 mph. Chance of precipitation 90 percent.; Thursday Night - Showers and isolated thunderstorms. Low in the lower 40s. Northeast wind 15 to 20 mph. Chance of precipitation 90 percent.;

19:52 <xcamel_mx> finally getting relaxed

19:52 <xcamel_mx> 72f ???

19:53 <wdsmia> nice day had the convertable out

19:53 <xcamel_mx> looks like spring inally hit like a brick

19:53 <PovAddict> &wx buenos aires

19:53 <xcamel_mx> hey.. who yanked the "F" ??

19:53 <MTughan> rofl... http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20011103

19:53 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/5hujl4> (at ars.userfriendly.org)

19:53 <xcamel_mx> 'lo Mike

19:53 <MTughan> &wx Buenos Aires

19:54 <Romulus> MTughan: Temperature: 58.4°F / 14.7°C | Humidity: 55% | Pressure: 29.88in / 1011.7hPa | Conditions: Smoke | Wind Direction: North | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h | Updated: 8:54 PM ART; Clear. High:69 F. / 21 C.; Clear. Low:55 F. / 13 C.; Clear. High:75 F. / 24 C.; Clear. Low:53 F. / 12 C.; Clear. High:77 F. / 25 C.; Clear. Low:62 F. / 17 C.;

19:54 <MTughan> And can you pull Pov off Rommie's ignore list?

19:54 <CoderForLife> glad you're having a good time, Jay

19:54 <PovAddict> 14C? I feel colder than that :\

19:55 *** xcamel_mx is now known as xcamel

19:55 <MTughan> Uh... PovAddict: Do I want to know what "Conditions: Smoke" means?

19:55 <PovAddict> ...

19:55 <PovAddict> I don't want to know either

19:55 <BadBarbarian> Evening all

19:55 <MTughan> 'lo BB

19:56 <MTughan> Did someone schedule a reunion?

19:56 <CoderForLife> heya Bad

19:56 <BadBarbarian> just got back from peru

19:56 <CoderForLife> you must have flown over xcamel

19:57 <BadBarbarian> no phx to panama city to lima

19:57 <CoderForLife> pert near...

19:58 <BadBarbarian> lol

19:58 <CoderForLife> La Paz shouldn't have been too far off the path

19:59 <xcamel> try it now Nic

19:59 <xcamel> 'lo BB

19:59 <xcamel> ignore is off now

20:00 <CoderForLife> time to head for the couch and talk to the wife about an oven replacement

20:00 <CoderForLife> tc all - good seeing you xcamel , BadBarbarian and all

20:00 <xcamel> phx to panama city woild have been close to flying over us..

20:00 <MTughan> Seeya CoderForLife.

20:00 <wdsmia> cya Don

20:01 <CoderForLife> yup = to my point

20:01 <xcamel> HI don..

20:01 <CoderForLife> bye-bye

20:01 <CoderForLife> bye Jay =)

20:02 <xcamel> there was a cruise ship here -- never seen that before..

20:03 <xcamel> Carnival no less..

20:04 <xcamel> everybody gone poof?

20:04 <PovAddict> MTughan: heard of Julian Beever?

20:04 <wdsmia> they come... they go

20:05 <MTughan> Yes, I have.

20:05 <PovAddict> he's in Argentina for a few days

20:05 <PovAddict> so far I couldn't find a news article in English about it

20:05 <MTughan> Hmm... Got a guy in #rieselsieve who claims a PS3 is slower than a quad-core.

20:06 <xcamel> quite the wierd fog bank came in while we were at the beach...

20:06 <PovAddict> it depends on what you do

20:06 <PovAddict> you need specific code for the RSX cores to get higher performance on Cell

20:06 <MTughan> I'm thinking when using the SPEs.

20:06 <MTughan> Yes, I know that.

20:07 <xcamel> well.. off with me then...

20:07 *** xcamel has quit IRC

20:07 <PovAddict> wait I mixed up terms

20:07 <PovAddict> yeah the SPEs

20:07 <PovAddict> (the RSX is the graphics processor on the PS3, not the Cell cores)

20:16 * KathrynM is away: I may still exist in an alternate reality...

21:18 *** keeeg has quit IRC

21:26 <PovAddict> quiet...

21:37 <PovAddict> &ln http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=46181&nowrap=true#740196

21:37 <Romulus> PovAddict: http://ln-s.net/1oSt

21:37 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/5kg8sj> (at setiathome.berkeley.edu)

21:48 *** cactaur has joined #boinc

22:12 *** BadBarbarian has quit IRC

23:06 * KathrynM is back (gone 02:50:06)

23:07 <PovAddict> SETI is on fire

23:07 <KathrynM> oh?

23:07 <Romulus> It has been said that oh is it like SocialBorg, KathrynM

23:07 <KathrynM> Romulus, I'm too damn tired to deal with your randomless

23:07 <PovAddict> if I tell you the thread title, you'll imagine the rest

23:07 <Romulus> No idea, KathrynM.

23:07 <PovAddict> "How do we express new ideas for forum moderation?"

23:07 <KathrynM> oh that one

23:07 <KathrynM> I read part of it this morning

23:07 <PovAddict> Qui-Gon is being such an ass

23:08 <KathrynM> yup

23:08 <PovAddict> quoting a PM I got a few weeks ago:

23:08 <PovAddict> "Unfortunately the Mods that have been appointed/chosen are virtually all, loners, recluses, or have obvious psychological problems. I suppose anyone interested in doing that job would be like that."

23:09 <KathrynM> you couldn't pay me enough to mod there

23:12 *** keeeg_wrk has quit IRC

23:15 <wdsmia> they dont pay me enought to be a mod here lol

23:15 <KathrynM> lol

23:16 *** Vecnah has joined #boinc

23:23 * wdsmia sends AthalonRob a e-mail asking for a 100% raise

23:23 <wdsmia> &calc 0 * 2

23:23 <Romulus> wdsmia: Error: The command "calc" is available in the Google and Math plugins.  Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "calc".

23:27 * CoderForLife falls out of bed and into #boinc

23:27 <CoderForLife> this must be some kind of nightmare

23:28 <KathrynM> uh

23:28 <KathrynM> isn't it the middle of the night?

23:28 <Romulus> http://www.boinc-wiki.info/Broadband_Noise that sooo needs a minimum RAC ;)

23:28 <CoderForLife> sleepircing

23:28 <CoderForLife> &dict middle

23:28 <Romulus> CoderForLife: wn, gcide, and moby-thes responded: gcide: Middle \Mid"dle\, n. [AS. middel. See {Middle}, a.] The point or part equally distant from the extremities or exterior limits, as of a line, a surface, or a solid; an intervening point or part in space, time, or order of series; the midst; central portion; specif., the waist. --Chaucer. "The middle of the land." --Judg. ix. 37. [1913 Webster] In (13 more messages)

23:28 <KathrynM> not like i'm not guilty of being on irc in the middle of the night

23:28 <CoderForLife> it's extreme alright

23:29 <CoderForLife> or wait - *not* extreme

23:29 <CoderForLife> no it's not the middle of the night

23:29 <CoderForLife> 11:27pm

23:30 *** NudgeyNR has quit IRC

23:31 <CoderForLife> I told my Code to do the wrong thing and I've restarted a test

23:31 <CoderForLife> back to Z-land

23:31 <KathrynM> nighty night

23:31 <wdsmia> &nn Don

23:31 <Romulus> Live long and crunch!

23:31 *** Vecnah has quit IRC

23:32 * CoderForLife waves a yellow IBM 360 assembler progamming reference card

23:33 *** Vecnah has joined #boinc

23:34 * wdsmia waves back with a orange rsx-11m referance card

23:46 <KathrynM> back to w&^%

23:46 * KathrynM waves a copy of "C is for Cookie'

23:46 * KathrynM is away: I may still exist in an alternate reality...

23:46 <PovAddict> lol

23:47 <Romulus> ir was handy though..

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23:48 *** BiteAbleKat is now known as tamar

23:48 *** tamar is now known as BiteAbleKat

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