IRC logs of #boinc for Thursday, 2008-05-01

00:08 *** BadBarbarian has quit IRC

00:11 <nickuwo> grr my BitArray.and method isn't working...

00:11 <PovAddict> what lang?

00:12 <nickuwo> not tellin you, you'll *scof* at me :)

00:12 <PovAddict> if it's Java, there is already a

00:12 <Romulus> <> (at

00:12 <nickuwo> nah, C#

00:13 <PovAddict> C# is good

00:13 <PovAddict> .NET is not :)

00:13 <nickuwo> interesting distinction

00:13 <PovAddict> and since you have to use them together...

00:13 <PovAddict> C# ends up not being good :)

00:14 <PovAddict> but seriously, .NET doesn't have something like Java's BitSet?

00:14 <nickuwo> uh, it has BitArray

00:14 <nickuwo> think thats the same ish

00:14 <PovAddict> <nickuwo> grr my BitArray.and method isn't working... <- I thought you were writing your own BitArray class

00:14 <nickuwo> perhaps I gave the wrong impression, I didn't write this .and method

00:14 <nickuwo> ah yes

00:15 <nickuwo> I should be using C.... dammit

00:16 <PovAddict> C++ has a std::bitset and a std::vector<bool> specialization

00:16 <PovAddict> right now I'm trying to figure out how to make Java code to cryptographically sign files in a way compatible with BOINC

00:17 <nickuwo> I saw you were talking about md5 b4, that related?

00:21 <nickuwo> I'm assuming you timed out, or perhaps my question didn't make sense...

00:24 <PovAddict> no, nature called

00:24 <PovAddict> back

00:25 <nickuwo> damn, didn't think of that

00:33 <PovAddict> and yes it was related

00:33 <PovAddict> a digital signature is an encrypted hash

00:34 <PovAddict> sign(data, private_key) = encrypt(hash(data), private_key)

00:34 <PovAddict> BOINC uses MD5 as the hash, and RSA as the encryption

00:35 <PovAddict> thing is... it seems to use the hexadecimal (text) form of the hash, not the binary form, so I think I can't use, I have to do the hash+encrypt manually

00:36 <nickuwo> bummer, somebody has to have written a binary version of it

00:36 <PovAddict> the problem is, if I use the binary (raw) hash in my code, the signature will be completely different from what BOINC expects :)

00:37 <nickuwo> thought you said BOINC wants binary?

00:38 <PovAddict> BOINC calculates the md5 hash of the data

00:38 <PovAddict> and returns it in hexadecimal form (like da325da2f0bb26543744fc68fe087fd9)

00:38 <PovAddict> then encrypts that

00:39 <PovAddict> I guess Java would calculate the md5, and encrypt it, without converting it to hex (text), because that's the sane way of doing it

00:39 <nickuwo> hmm

00:40 <PovAddict> so I can't use Java's signing stuff, I have to first hash it and then encrypt it, myself

00:41 <nickuwo> that sounds like fun actually, I always wanted to write my own hash function

00:41 <PovAddict> well I won't write a hash function...

00:41 <Romulus> And I think I know its chemical structure, not its synthesis.

00:42 <PovAddict> it's just I'll have to do RSA_encrypt(convert_to_hex(md5_hash(data)), private_key) instead of RSAwithMD5_sign(data, private_key)

00:43 <nickuwo> I guess by write my own hash function I just meant implement an md5 hash

00:43 <nickuwo> oh, well htat doesn't seem to bad

01:17 * CoderForLife gives a middle-of-the-night wave

01:20 <Soul_keeper> middle finger ?

01:29 *** BadBarbarian has joined #boinc

01:34 <BadBarbarian> anybody awake

01:35 *** e-30 has joined #boinc

01:36 <e-30> hey

01:36 <BadBarbarian> i was wondering do you crunch abc

01:36 <e-30> naa i am all qmc right now i been that way for about a year now

01:37 <BadBarbarian> i had my work set at 4 days abc almost never goes down like seti i changed it to .5 days

01:37 <e-30> oh lol

01:39 <BadBarbarian> just got my 8800 nvidea today

01:39 *** Excelsi0r has joined #boinc

01:40 *** efc has joined #boinc

01:40 <e-30> cool how is it

01:40 <BadBarbarian> going to try my first crossfire an 8600 and an 8800

01:41 <BadBarbarian> 768 on the 8600 1 gig on the 8800

01:41 <BadBarbarian> should be nice

01:42 <BadBarbarian> going to rip it open in the morning

01:42 <BadBarbarian> lol good thing i have a 1000w ps lol.

01:44 <e-30> well i have a 800w ps

01:45 <efc> yikes

01:47 <BadBarbarian> running 2 pci e cards can realy draw some jusie

01:47 <BadBarbarian> power

01:48 <BadBarbarian> well night all got to get some rest Later

01:49 *** BadBarbarian has quit IRC

01:51 <efc> one acre of good sunlight = 1200 gallons of gas per hour ..

01:51 <Excelsi0r> hi

01:52 <Excelsi0r> <BadBarbarian> lol good thing i have a 1000w ps lol. <-- I admit... pretty useless

01:52 <efc> need more A/C to run it

01:52 <Excelsi0r> you don't want a nuclear power plant ? :D

01:53 <Excelsi0r> Seriously, 1KW is definitely too much

01:53 <efc> wouldn't be so bad if those cards were low power when not playing but they are still pretty high

01:53 <Excelsi0r> Just mesure your consumation

01:53 <Excelsi0r> (not sur I've typed that correctly)

01:54 <efc> Hehehe

01:54 <efc> theres a 235 W on my P3, not sure whats on this P4

01:56 <Excelsi0r> I bought a 480W for my A64+8600GT.... I'm sure I could have saved 100W...

01:56 <efc> rated 6 amps at 115 volts

01:57 <efc> (input)

01:57 <Excelsi0r> Ah yeah, you'r at 115V in USA

01:57 <efc> its a dell, i'm sure they didn't go too excessive on PSU

01:57 <Excelsi0r> here we works with 230V

01:58 <efc> its probably not a bad thing to run a little on the low side, for temperature

01:58 <Excelsi0r> Yup

01:58 <Excelsi0r> I totally agree

01:58 <Excelsi0r> But in Europe, we like to be overequipped :)

01:58 <efc> run running at 10% is probably not a very efficient range on the powersupply

01:59 <efc> &math convert 1 meter to chains

01:59 <Romulus> efc: 0.049709695379

01:59 <efc> &math convert 1 chain to meters

01:59 <Romulus> efc: 20.1168

02:00 <efc> &math convert 1 furlong to meters

02:00 <Romulus> efc: 201.168

02:02 <efc> i'm eyeing a quad core myself.. probably use less power than this P4 on the 45 nm ones

02:02 <Excelsi0r> wow... technology...

02:02 <e-30> yea

02:04 <efc> are the Core 2's much faster per clock than a P4? Like 2.4 ghz Core2 vs 2.8 ghz P4, core would be faster?

02:04 <e-30> yea i think so

02:05 <Excelsi0r> I guess it would be faster if you are using a software that uses multiple threads

02:05 <e-30> rember it blew the amd64 out of the watter too

02:06 <Excelsi0r> yeah, amd is not being better with time :-/

02:06 <e-30> true to that but it was on the same level as the p4

02:07 <efc> just trying to make my decision easier hehe

02:07 <Soul_keeper> efc, yes the c2d is much much faster per clock

02:07 <efc> awesome

02:07 <e-30> what quad are you  looking at

02:07 <efc> maybe the 2.5 ghz one

02:08 <e-30> well make sure you have a good heatsink to go with it

02:08 <e-30> they put out a lot of heatr

02:08 <efc> Even that much faster the max heat is rated about the same as a P4

02:08 <efc> ~95 W

02:09 <e-30> well i a useing watter on a q 6600  overclock to 3 ghz frome 2.4 ghz and i am running 50c

02:09 <e-30> they dont like to go over 60c

02:09 <efc> I probably wouldn't O/C even though that sounds very good

02:10 <Excelsi0r> The real problem is, if AMD don't manage to compete against Intel on top-of-range CPU, Intel will be free to fix his prices

02:10 <efc> Like the bad ol days

02:10 <e-30> yea true

02:10 <efc> of $2000 P2-300s

02:10 <e-30> lol

02:10 <e-30> i rember that

02:10 <Excelsi0r> yeah, I remembre

02:10 <efc> I got the P2-266 at around $600 hehe

02:11 <Soul_keeper> how much was the 233 going for back then ?  think i got one laying around ..

02:11 <e-30> lol

02:12 <efc> I forget.. on release is was $2000/$1000 for 300/266, don't think the 233 was much less

02:12 <Soul_keeper> i think if  nvidia buys via  and enters the cpu scene  we could see some interesting battles for the top

02:13 <e-30> yea

02:13 <efc> Maybe, but via wouldn't have much on the top CPU. They have pretty good low power CPUs though.

02:13 <Excelsi0r> maybe... if VIA is more viable than ATI

02:14 <e-30> maybe who know

02:14 <Soul_keeper> if i was to bet, i'd guess that nvidia already has powerfull cpu designs in secret

02:14 <Excelsi0r> future will tell

02:14 <e-30> oh hell yea

02:15 <Soul_keeper> they've made enough money over the past 5-10yrs to invest in such r&d

02:15 <efc> They have the problem that they don't have a top fab available. Thats one of Intel's big advantages over most other companies.

02:15 <Soul_keeper> indeed

02:15 <e-30> but they cant do both at the same time with out the help of someone else

02:16 <Soul_keeper> it's almost the only "advantage" in many ways

02:16 <e-30> \true

02:17 <efc> Of course the others always catch up in a year or so, but thats a long time in CPUs

02:17 <Soul_keeper> ibm could beat intel if they really wanted, but it's not lucrative enough for them i guess

02:18 <efc> those new fabs cost massive $$$ too, every generation

02:18 <e-30> well my quad core is doing about 3.5k a day now

02:19 <e-30> it pick out about 5 k one day on qmc

02:19 <efc> hehe, i get around 130 @ seti@home (10 hours a day)

02:19 <e-30> wow

02:20 <Soul_keeper> everything seemed rosie for amd a few years ago just after the 1GHz barrier broke,  had me convinced that  "strategic partnerships"  could actually put them on equal footing with intel

02:20 <Soul_keeper> amd + ibm + nvidia + via    seemed like an unstoppable "crew"

02:20 <e-30> well when they cam out with the amd 64 thy did for  a about a 1/2 of year

02:21 <e-30> amd and ati are allredy working togthere now

02:21 <Soul_keeper> socket A was their climax imo,  the athlon64 was more or less one great idea (integrated memory controller) with no follow thru

02:21 <e-30> and not doing any better

02:22 <e-30> true

02:22 <Soul_keeper> i bought me an  ati/amd video card recently tho

02:23 <e-30> how is it

02:23 <Soul_keeper> highly impressed

02:23 <Soul_keeper> linux support is far better than i had hoped

02:23 <e-30> for gaming the 8800 is still holding it own

02:23 <e-30> i cant got to the 9800 becus of the new pcie 2

02:24 <Soul_keeper> i picked up a radeon 3870

02:24 <e-30> i am not goting to get a new mouther board for that yet

02:24 <e-30> cool nice one

02:24 <Soul_keeper> i thought pcie 2.0 was backwards compatible

02:25 <e-30> the slot was but not the cards

02:25 <Soul_keeper> ahhh

02:25 <Excelsi0r> which means PCIE 1.0 cards can be set on PCIE 2.0 slots :)

02:25 <e-30> yea

02:26 <Excelsi0r> I don't think anything is forwards compatible :p

02:26 <e-30> abit does ok at that

02:26 <e-30> wow you have a fast card there

02:26 <Soul_keeper> :)

02:27 <e-30> how much did you pay

02:27 <e-30> for it

02:27 *** yoyo[RKN] has joined #boinc

02:27 <Soul_keeper> i forget now, but it wasn't bad,  only 50 bucks more than the  3850

02:28 <Tank_Master> yoyoyo

02:28 <Soul_keeper> it was like 200 bucks

02:28 <Tank_Master> its my bed time already?

02:29 <e-30> oh wow

02:29 <yoyo[RKN]> yeah Tank_Master

02:29 <Tank_Master> :P

02:29 <e-30> it will only keep with a 8800gt

02:29 <Soul_keeper> i bought right after amd did a 40 dollar price cut, because of the recent nvidia release

02:29 <e-30> get the high end 8800 gtx

02:30 <e-30> cool

02:30 <e-30> well that was a good idea

02:30 <Tank_Master> get the 9800x2

02:30 <Soul_keeper> i like ati/amd now because they are releasing docs to the oss community

02:30 <e-30> well if i had the spcie2.0 i would

02:31 <Soul_keeper> my AGP card was still plenty fast for what i do ...

02:31 <Soul_keeper> but i "had" to upgrade :)

02:32 <Excelsi0r> Soul_keeper: ati did that because they are in front of the wall

02:32 <e-30> lol

02:32 <e-30> i am happy with the 8800gt right now

02:33 <Excelsi0r> but they didn't released the 3D part of their doc

02:33 <Tank_Master> ATI's drivers suck

02:33 <Excelsi0r> especially under linux

02:33 <Soul_keeper> i have no issues with the ati drivers

02:33 <Tank_Master> even under windows

02:33 <e-30> io am still whating got it to come in after my last one went on a wet ride

02:33 <Soul_keeper> just like people used to say creative's drivers sucked, never once had an issue with them either

02:33 <e-30> i dod

02:33 <e-30> do

02:34 <e-30> lol

02:34 <e-30> i had to make my own

02:34 <Soul_keeper> probably because i don't use windows ...

02:34 <e-30> true

02:34 <Excelsi0r> Hadn't any problem with ATI nor Creative under windows

02:35 <e-30> well i did

02:35 <Soul_keeper> i just wish we could run our boinc projects on our vid cards

02:35 <e-30> yea they were talking about that

02:36 <Excelsi0r> e-30: maybe no luck :)

02:36 <Soul_keeper> i get the feeling it will happen, but could take a few more generations of cards

02:36 <e-30> last year some time

02:36 <Excelsi0r> I guess it will be a long way, cause coding for CPU or GPU is very different

02:36 <e-30> yea i agree to that

02:36 <e-30> yea

02:37 <Excelsi0r> But some projects will do that, like folding and some ATI cards

02:37 <e-30> well they have on pro on a game system the ps3 allredy

02:38 <Tank_Master> BOINC 6.1.14 allows apps to use the vid cards if they are coded right

02:38 <Soul_keeper> nice

02:38 *** wolog has quit IRC

02:38 <Excelsi0r> yup, that is cool, but you have to run the PS3 exclusively either for boinc or for games, still a lack

02:38 <e-30> yea

02:38 *** wolog has joined #boinc

02:39 <Soul_keeper> i wonder if anyone has calculated the  RAC/$  ratio of a ps3 compared to a pc build

02:39 <Excelsi0r> I guess this thing must be starving for Watts :p

02:39 <e-30> i dont think so

02:39 <Soul_keeper> doesn't a budget pc still put out more credits than a ps3 ?

02:40 <e-30> yea

02:40 <Soul_keeper> i spend all my money on my pc and don't concern myself with consoles

02:40 <Excelsi0r> Well, I have to work, have a nice day/evening or whatever you want :)

02:41 <Soul_keeper> late

02:42 <e-30> same here

02:43 *** e-30 has quit IRC

02:44 <Soul_keeper> time for me to sleep

02:46 <Tank_Master> gn

02:54 *** yoyo[RKN] has quit IRC

03:00 *** DerMeister has joined #boinc

03:13 *** desti has quit IRC

03:13 *** desti has joined #boinc

04:45 * KathrynM is back (gone 08:20:58)

04:51 *** yoyo[RKN] has joined #boinc

04:55 *** efc has quit IRC

04:56 <CoderForLife> morning

04:56 *** [RKN]frost has joined #boinc

04:56 <CoderForLife> &wx 45140

04:56 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Temperature: 51.4F / 10.8C | Humidity: 71% | Pressure: 29.55in / 1000.6hPa (Steady) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: West | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Today - Mostly sunny. Highs in the upper 70s. South winds 10 to 15 mph with gusts up to 25 mph.; Tonight - Mostly cloudy. A slight chance of showers and thunderstorms after midnight. Lows in the upper 50s. South winds 10 to 15 mph. (1 more message)

04:57 <KathrynM> mornin

04:57 *** [RKN]frost has quit IRC

04:57 <CoderForLife> how r u?

04:57 <KathrynM> tgif

04:57 * CoderForLife looks at the calendar, startled

04:58 <CoderForLife> ah, for some

04:58 <KathrynM> less than 24 hours until my weekend

04:58 * CoderForLife wants several weekends lined up back to back

04:59 <CoderForLife> to back to back....

04:59 <KathrynM> me too

04:59 <CoderForLife> my latest Code ran through the night =)

05:00 <KathrynM> :)

05:00 <CoderForLife> right over/under/around/trhough previous problem areas

05:01 <KathrynM> nice

05:01 <CoderForLife> I'm a proud papa

05:03 <CoderForLife> I should go find some breakfast food

05:03 <KathrynM> enjoy

05:03 <CoderForLife> I'll brb with the stuff

05:04 * CoderForLife flops out of the chair and rolls downstairs

05:09 * KathrynM wanders over to the kitchen to check the status of my chicken

05:11 <CoderForLife> b

05:15 <CoderForLife> stuff is done

05:18 <CoderForLife>

05:18 <Romulus> <> (at

05:31 * CoderForLife looks at the latest California quake report

05:36 * CoderForLife goes to get ready for w@#%

05:38 *** Aruzp has joined #boinc

05:46 *** e-30 has joined #boinc

05:46 <e-30> moo

05:48 *** yoyo[RKN] has quit IRC

05:52 *** e-30 has quit IRC

06:14 <CoderForLife> off to w@#%

06:14 <CoderForLife> cya later

06:27 <hawmps> 'lo

06:28 <hawmps> IP kill >>,

06:32 <CoderForLife> thanks Jay

07:05 <hawmps> np

07:19 *** Blackhex has joined #boinc

07:20 <Blackhex> hello, please, I have kernel 2.6.25 and even with nice -19 boinc processes slows down higer priority processes (mplayer for instance). Can I do something about that?

07:25 <desti> buy faster pc

07:26 <Blackhex> desti: or stop boinc, I know, but with 2.6.24 kernel it was ok and a was usign CFQ scheduler too. I was hoping that there is some who know how to configrure scheduler other way than nice

07:27 <desti> have you used the same kernel config?

07:27 <Blackhex> yes

07:27 <Blackhex> only updated with menuconfig

07:27 <Blackhex> maybe i try to change scheduler

07:28 <Blackhex> if there is no further configuration

07:30 <desti> could play with different kernel timings and check out the new tickless function

07:31 <Blackhex> I don't think that tickless changes something it affects only power consumption as I know, I suppose that my higger processes gets to low quantum than they wants

07:33 <desti> hmm...what graphics driver do you use?

07:34 <Blackhex> for mplayerM

07:34 <Blackhex> ?

07:35 <Blackhex> nvidia/gl and x11

07:46 *** Blackhex has left #boinc

08:19 *** yoyo[RKN] has joined #boinc

08:29 *** wdsmia_w has joined #Boinc

08:44 *** zombie67 has joined #boinc

08:44 <zombie67> pov?

08:44 <Romulus> Rumor has it pov is usually not got for very long, zombie67

08:51 *** yoyo[RKN] has quit IRC

09:36 *** BiteAbleKat has joined #boinc

09:36 *** BiteAbleKat is now known as tamar

09:36 *** tamar is now known as BiteAbleKat

10:06 * KathrynM is away: I may still exist in an alternate reality...

10:36 *** Vecnah has quit IRC

10:48 *** BiteAbleKat has quit IRC

11:11 *** nickuwo has quit IRC

11:14 *** nickuwo has joined #boinc

12:19 *** foebrian has left #boinc

12:24 *** siofwolves has joined #boinc

13:05 *** yoyo[RKN] has joined #boinc

13:05 *** Aeternus has joined #boinc

13:10 <PovAddict> zombie67

13:16 *** Vecnah has joined #boinc

13:20 *** Aeternus has quit IRC

13:40 *** jackygrahamez has joined #BOINC

13:40 <jackygrahamez> Hi Folks

13:52 <hawmps> 'lo

13:55 <yoyo[RKN]> hi jack

14:01 <jackygrahamez> hi <yoyo[RKN]>

14:10 <jackygrahamez> How is the weather over there Yoyo?

14:10 <PovAddict> "Web in infancy, says Berners-Lee"

14:10 <PovAddict> "(That's why it keeps spitting up all over us)"

14:11 <yoyo[RKN]> &weather berlin,  germany

14:11 <Romulus> yoyo[RKN]: Temperature: 59°F / 15°C | Humidity: 51% | Pressure: 29.95in / 1014hPa | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: WNW | Wind Speed: 6mph / 9km/h | Updated: 7:50 PM CEST; Chance of Rain. High:62 F. / 17 C.; Scattered Clouds. Low:42 F. / 6 C.; Partly Cloudy. High:64 F. / 18 C.; Chance of Rain. Low:42 F. / 6 C.; Scattered Clouds. High:66 F. / 19 C.; Scattered Clouds. Low:44 F. / 7 (1 more message)

14:12 <jackygrahamez> Sound like me &weather Washington, DC USA

14:12 <jackygrahamez> &weather Washington, DC

14:12 <Romulus> jackygrahamez: Temperature: 63.7F / 17.6C | Humidity: 61% | Pressure: 29.92in / 1013.1hPa (Falling) | Conditions: Overcast | Wind Direction: NE | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; This Afternoon - Showers. Highs in the upper 60s. South winds 10 to 15 mph. Chance of rain 80 percent.; Tonight - Mostly cloudy. Lows in the lower 50s. South winds 5 to 10 mph.; Friday - Partly sunny. Highs around 80. Southwest winds (1 more message)

14:13 <jackygrahamez> I'm playing soft ball tonight

14:14 <jackygrahamez> We played a scrimage two weeks ago, first time I played in 15 years and I got a Home Run ;-)

14:15 <jackygrahamez> Almost hit the Washington Monument (H)

14:22 *** yoyo[RKN] has quit IRC

14:24 <zombie67> hi pov

14:24 <zombie67> where is dcf kept?

14:25 <PovAddict> client_state.xml

14:26 <zombie67> got it open now

14:27 <PovAddict> <duration_correction_factor>

14:27 <PovAddict> eek

14:27 <zombie67> what is connected_frac?  Mine is showing -1???

14:27 <PovAddict> ABC@Home has a DCF of 13!

14:27 <PovAddict> zombie67: that feature has been disabled for quite a while

14:27 <PovAddict> it's the % of time your computer is online

14:27 <PovAddict> since they haven't figured out a good way to measure it yet...

14:28 <zombie67> wait, dcf is per project?

14:28 <PovAddict> it is

14:28 <PovAddict> I know it makes zero sense :)

14:28 <zombie67> well, crap.  it isn't the problem then

14:28 <PovAddict> it should be per app

14:28 <zombie67> I have a machine that will never pull more than enough work for 1 task per thread

14:28 <PovAddict> what's the debt?

14:29 <zombie67> this is for ALL projects

14:29 <PovAddict> :o

14:29 <PovAddict> what's your on_frac and active_frac?

14:29 <PovAddict> and cpu_efficiency

14:29 <zombie67> on_frac = 0.999906

14:30 <zombie67> active_frac = .999942

14:30 <PovAddict> that's higher than mine...

14:30 <PovAddict>     <on_frac>0.984536</on_frac>

14:30 <PovAddict>     <active_frac>0.999615</active_frac>

14:30 <PovAddict>     <cpu_efficiency>0.977603</cpu_efficiency>

14:30 <zombie67> it is a dedicated cruncher

14:30 <PovAddict> figured :)

14:30 <PovAddict> and what are your global prefs?

14:31 <zombie67> where to look?

14:31 <PovAddict> global_prefs.xml

14:31 <PovAddict> and see if you have a global_prefs_override.xml

14:32 <zombie67> work_buf_additional_days = 4

14:34 <zombie67> dcf for the project I am running (all the rest are NNW) is 0.459648

14:34 <PovAddict> debts?

14:34 <zombie67> st = 504

14:34 <zombie67> lt = 26960

14:35 <PovAddict> :/

14:35 <zombie67> it has been like this for months

14:35 <zombie67> even when I have none set to NNW

14:36 <zombie67> and only this one machine, which does not have any unique global or project settings

14:40 <zombie67> what is the default dcf?

14:40 <zombie67> ut!

14:40 <zombie67> LTD is -26960

14:41 <PovAddict> ahaa!

14:41 <zombie67> missed the -

14:41 <PovAddict> the "normal" DCF is 1.0

14:41 <zombie67> what does degative mean for LTD?

14:41 <zombie67> negative

14:42 <PovAddict> that it won't get work unless it's its only alternative :)

14:42 <PovAddict> the sum of LTD from all projects is always 0

14:42 <zombie67> but there isn't

14:42 <Romulus> at least a month. And my BOINC stuff winds up not blanking for whatever reason, and just my bad handwriting

14:42 <zombie67> so why is it not getting 4 days

14:43 <PovAddict> in normal conditions, BOINC will not get *any* work from a project with LTD < 0

14:43 <PovAddict> but if you have NNW on the rest, it has no other alternative than to get some work from it

14:43 <PovAddict> and once you get work and crunch it, it will get even lower (more negative)

14:43 <PovAddict> make it a large positive

14:44 <zombie67> if I fiddle, it won't add up to 0

14:44 <zombie67> will BOINC fix it?

14:45 <PovAddict> yes

14:45 <PovAddict> that's what BOINC does by itself all the time

14:45 <PovAddict> when you crunch for a project, the LTD gets lowered

14:45 <PovAddict> and shortly after, all LTDs get adjusted to keep the sum on 0

14:45 <PovAddict> and that's it

14:46 <PovAddict> the only time when BOINC *increases* a debt is during that adjustment

14:46 <zombie67> brb

14:50 <zombie67> back

14:50 <Romulus> DerMeister: use the mysql data base hte WU was cancled by boinc

14:51 <zombie67> well, that didn't make any difference

14:52 <PovAddict> what's the LTD now?

14:53 <zombie67> 23862.xxxxxx

14:53 <PovAddict> does the client ask for any work?

14:53 <zombie67> nope

14:53 <PovAddict> and what's in your queue?

14:54 <zombie67> about 16 simap and 2 lattice

14:54 <PovAddict> you force update and it says "getting 0 seconds"?

14:54 <zombie67> this is an 8-way machine

14:54 <zombie67> yes

14:55 <PovAddict> complain @ mailing lists... probably the scheduling algorithm is too stupid to cope with high CPU counts :/

14:55 <zombie67> ugh

14:55 <zombie67> no thanks

14:55 <PovAddict> lol

14:55 <zombie67> its like the pain of asking for tech support

14:55 <zombie67> "is it plugged in?"

14:55 <zombie67> reboot

14:56 <zombie67> cycle the power on the cable modem

14:56 <zombie67> aargh!

14:56 <zombie67> this is 5.10.45 fwiw

14:56 <PovAddict> bah

14:57 <PovAddict> you think that's bad?

14:57 <PovAddict> I'm reading boinc code

14:58 <PovAddict> that's pain...

14:59 <zombie67> AAAAARGH!

14:59 <zombie67> there were local preferences set!

14:59 <PovAddict> override?

14:59 <zombie67> I did NOT put them there!

14:59 <zombie67> yeah

14:59 <zombie67> flood gates opened!

15:00 <PovAddict> <PovAddict> and what are your global prefs?

15:00 <PovAddict> <zombie67> where to look?

15:00 <PovAddict> <PovAddict> global_prefs.xml

15:00 <PovAddict> <PovAddict> and see if you have a global_prefs_override.xml

15:00 <zombie67> sorry.  I missed your second line there

15:01 <zombie67> I got distracted trying to open the file

15:01 <zombie67> when I came back, we were already on to other things

15:02 <zombie67> so the question is, where did that come from?

15:02 <PovAddict> touching local prefs

15:02 <PovAddict> go to Advanced

15:02 <PovAddict> Preferences

15:03 <PovAddict> click OK without even touching anything

15:03 <PovAddict> congrats, your client stopped listening to the web-set prefs

15:03 <PovAddict> next change you do online won't be followed

15:03 <zombie67> so random mouse input can bugger it up?  great

15:03 <PovAddict> it has been suggested to change the button to "Save"

15:04 <Romulus> so peacful without him

15:04 <PovAddict> to make it a bit more clear that OK does more than just getting the dialog box out of the way

15:04 <zombie67> I probably pulled that widow up in error, when trying to select Attach To Project

15:04 <zombie67> thought I dismissed it

15:05 <zombie67> when in reality, I created a local pref file without even knowing

15:05 * PovAddict doesn't understand the point of upload signatures

15:05 <zombie67> brb

15:11 <zombie67> back

15:11 <zombie67> thanks again for the help and patience.

15:13 <Didactylos> PovAddict: how else can the server be sure the result file is from the same host the work unit was sent to?

15:13 <PovAddict> that's what I just figured out

15:13 <PovAddict> I thought the actual file got signed

15:14 <PovAddict> I just now noticed there is a bit of XML sent by the server along with a signature, and the client sends both *unmodified* back to the server...

15:15 <PovAddict> and in other news, the version of MySQL I have on this machine has a serious leak somewhere

15:15 <PovAddict> lots of programs refused to start, or showed incomplete UIs, turned out to be a handle shortage

15:15 <PovAddict> mysqld-nt.exe using 57,000 handles

15:16 <PovAddict> (next on list eclipse.exe with 1600 handles)

15:16 <PovAddict> and i don't think I even had anything doing queries

15:19 <PovAddict> I'm now down to 15700 handles in use *system-wide*!

15:19 <PovAddict> and mysql was using 57k on its own!

15:20 <Didactylos> PovAddict: there is a specification for XML digital signature envelopes. I wonder if BOINC complies? Or takes any notice of the spec at all?

15:24 *** exco has joined #boinc

15:41 *** zombie67 has left #boinc

15:44 *** exco has left #boinc

15:57 *** yoyo[RKN] has joined #boinc

16:11 *** Ageless93 has joined #boinc

16:22 * xcamel_away is back.

16:22 *** xcamel_away is now known as xcamel

16:25 *** siofwolves has quit IRC

16:38 <yoyo[RKN]> jackygrahamez: ?

16:38 <Romulus> hmm... jackygrahamez: are you talking of the BIOS, yoyo[RKN]

16:43 *** Aruzp has quit IRC

16:44 *** BadBarbarian has joined #boinc

16:44 <jackygrahamez> yes?

16:44 <Romulus> hmm... yes is enable, jackygrahamez

16:45 <Ageless93> irritating bot. ;)

16:45 <BadBarbarian> yep romy's all of that

16:46 <jackygrahamez> Sorry what's going on Yoyo?

16:46 <Didactylos> You haven't put it on ignore?

16:46 <Didactylos> Almost the first thing I did here.

16:46 <Ageless93> there's an idea.

16:46 <yoyo[RKN]> do you have continous wus for your project?

16:47 <BadBarbarian> but than you can't use his good fetures lol

16:47 <BadBarbarian> like

16:47 <jackygrahamez> We have a workunit generator that is accesible through a form or a perl script that people can use to submit

16:47 <BadBarbarian> &wx 86023

16:47 <Romulus> BadBarbarian: Temperature: 50F / 10.0C | Humidity: 10% | Pressure: in / hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: West | Wind Speed: 6mph / 9.7km/h ; Today - Much cooler. Mostly sunny. Highs around 43 on the North Rim to around 67 along the Colorado River. Light winds becoming northwest around 15 mph in the late morning and afternoon.; Tonight - Mostly clear. Lows around 12 on the North Rim to (1 more message)

16:47 <BadBarbarian> &more

16:47 <Romulus> BadBarbarian: around 20 along the Colorado River. Northwest winds around 15 mph early in the evening becoming light.; Friday - Mostly sunny. Highs around 48 on the North Rim to around 72 along the Colorado River. Light winds.;

16:47 <Ageless93> no, but if I want to know the weather, I'll look outside or go to

16:48 <jackygrahamez> Currently we are testing Autodck4 using rigid protein docking

16:49 <jackygrahamez> I'm working on some conceptual stuff outside the project using molecular dynamics simulations, not ready to run any of that on the project

16:49 <yoyo[RKN]> ok

16:52 <PovAddict> Didactylos: BOINC taking notice of a spec? LOL

16:58 *** wdsmia_w has quit IRC

17:02 <Ageless93> PovAddict: care to translate?

17:02 <Romulus> <> (at

17:02 <DerMeister> 403 Forbidden (Insufficient permissions to access changeset 15114) <= what is this all about?!?

17:02 <MTughan> The post?

17:03 <MTughan> DerMeister: What are you trying to do?

17:03 <PovAddict>

17:03 <PovAddict> there's a similar one, hold on

17:04 <PovAddict> try to access these:

17:04 <Ageless93> ho oops:

17:04 <Romulus> <> (at

17:04 <PovAddict>

17:04 <PovAddict>

17:04 <PovAddict>

17:04 *** nickuwo has quit IRC

17:06 <DerMeister> I can access 15103 and 15105 - 15104 gives me a "forbidden", too.

17:06 <PovAddict> yup

17:07 <PovAddict> using 'svn log' makes it seem like the changeset doesn't exist

17:07 <PovAddict> strange to have a hole in SVN revisions...

17:08 *** yoyo[RKN] has quit IRC

17:11 <PovAddict> what's the normal daily quota on SETI?

17:11 <PovAddict> ie. maximum

17:12 *** jackygrahamez has quit IRC

17:12 <Ageless93> 100

17:12 <PovAddict> I noticed the computer on skylab's new account has  most results errored

17:13 <PovAddict> I wanted to check if his previous computer had the same problem, but tasks were purged long ago

17:13 <PovAddict> his quota on his old computer is 93/day

17:13 <PovAddict> <- new one

17:13 <Romulus> <> (at

17:14 <PovAddict> which might explain why he has only 28 credits

17:15 <Ageless93> doesn't the function incorrect exit code 1 mean something or the other is awry with his graphics? Or is that on another project?

17:16 <PovAddict> I think it's just "task exited with code 1, which has some app-specific meaning, and the client stupidly looked up the number on Windows API error codes and turned out to be 'function incorrect'"

17:21 *** Vecnah has quit IRC

17:28 <PovAddict> Ageless93: in case you didn't notice, I replied that post

17:29 <Ageless93> I noticed.

17:29 *** d00m1001 has quit IRC

17:29 *** d00m1001 has joined #boinc

17:37 <KathrynM>

17:37 <Romulus> <> (at

17:37 <KathrynM> Is it just me, or does anyone else think this guy has serious hardware issues?

17:38 <PovAddict> either hardware, or problems with the kernel

17:38 <PovAddict> (including drivers; those run in kernel mode)

17:38 <KathrynM> You wanna post back, he doesn't seem to belive me.

17:43 <Ageless93> like so?

17:43 <Romulus> <> (at

17:44 <KathrynM> exactly like that

17:44 *** Aeternus has joined #boinc

17:45 <Ageless93> lol, I knew there was a thread somewhere I still needed to answer in

17:46 * PovAddict has 11 Firefox tabs open

17:46 <PovAddict> all of them related to crypto signatures in BOINC... finally figuring out some stuff

17:48 <Ageless93> ok, off to eat something. Later all.

17:48 <KathrynM> latez

17:48 <KathrynM> I know I'm going to regret it, but I'm jumping into the unification thread.

17:49 <PovAddict> dagorath got a bit into LHC-mode in that thread

17:49 <KathrynM> yeah

17:50 <KathrynM> Overall, he's been really helpful lately.

17:50 <KathrynM> Especially with the fedora package stuff.

17:52 <wdsmia> re-hi

17:52 <xcamel>

17:52 <Romulus> Title: APOD: 2008 May 1 - The Giants of Omega Centauri (at

17:53 <xcamel> nice..

17:53 <xcamel> 'lo Doug

17:53 <wdsmia> *lo Jay

17:55 *** Starfury^ has joined #boinc

18:06 <PovAddict> Didactylos: all I can find about the XML security standard is why it shouldn't be used

18:06 <PovAddict> with sentences like: "In addition to the processing problem, XML security gives you the flexibilty to shoot yourself in the foot in a dozen different ways without even knowing it."

18:10 *** Starfury^ has quit IRC

18:10 <Didactylos> Fun. I last looked at it when it was an early draft spec.

18:10 <Didactylos> I.e. a long time ago.

18:11 <PovAddict>

18:11 <Romulus> <> (at

18:11 <PovAddict> there's also the problem we already have with the BOINC method... canonicalization

18:11 <PovAddict> when signing, what whitespace to take?

18:12 <PovAddict> does it start at <signed_xml> or at the beginning of the following line?

18:13 <Didactylos> xmldsig has very specific rules about that.

18:13 <PovAddict> I don't see BOINC doing XML canonicalization if it can't even parse XML right

18:15 <Didactylos> That makes interesting reading.

18:16 <Didactylos> Doesn't make it true, of course.

18:16 <Romulus> and installed the new 6.x

18:16 <Didactylos> xmldsig is for when you already have XML data, and you want to sign the XML, not just a single datum within the XML.

18:17 <Didactylos> One quote (at the end) really stood out: "I just can't do it without

18:17 <Didactylos> incorporating a complete XML processing interface into cryptlib"

18:17 <Didactylos> Duh!

18:23 <Didactylos> In short, I think I'll ignore the rhetoric. There may be some valid points in there, but it boils down to "I don't want to touch XML to do security!"

18:23 <Didactylos> A viewpoint that makes no sense to people already working with XML.

18:24 <Didactylos> PovAddict: was that all you could find?

18:24 <PovAddict> reading the standard

18:24 *** Vecnah has joined #boinc

18:25 <PovAddict> does it *force* you to put the signed information first, and the signature at the end?

18:26 *** DerMeister has quit IRC

18:28 <Didactylos> I haven't read the standard in over 6 years.

18:31 <Didactylos> But if you're looking at what I think you are -

18:31 <Didactylos> the SignedInfo element just describes the data. The actual data is pointed to by the Reference tag.

18:32 <PovAddict> <Reference> is inside <SignedInfo>

18:33 <Didactylos> Yes, but it's not the actual data.

18:34 <PovAddict> where's the actual data?

18:34 <Didactylos> The actual data can be an external file, or an element anywhere in the document - almost anything.

18:34 <Didactylos> Look at section 2.3

18:36 <xcamel> yuck - blackflies out already

18:37 <xcamel> sizeof{pin} == teethlike{shark}

18:39 <PovAddict> Didactylos: the spec seems like overkill for the needs here...

18:40 <Didactylos> Maybe a little.

18:40 <Didactylos> But if you take out the optional stuff, it's a lot simpler.

18:43 <wdsmia> &wx 50319

18:43 <Romulus> wdsmia: Temperature: 75.3F / 24.1C | Humidity: 63% | Pressure: 29.32in / 992.8hPa (Falling) | Conditions: Overcast | Wind Direction: ESE | Wind Speed: 6.0mph / 9.7km/h ; Tonight - Mostly cloudy. A chance of showers and thunderstorms in the evening...then showers and thunderstorms likely after midnight. Low in the upper 50s. South wind 10 to 20 mph with gusts to around 30 mph. Chance of precipitation 70 (2 more messages)

18:43 <wdsmia> &more

18:43 <Romulus> wdsmia: percent.; Friday - Showers and thunderstorms in the morning...then showers and thunderstorms likely in the afternoon. High in the mid 60s. Southeast wind near 10 mph increasing to southwest 10 to 20 mph in the afternoon. Chance of precipitation 80 percent.; Friday Night - Cloudy with a 50 percent chance of showers. Colder. Low in the lower 40s. West wind 10 to 20 mph.; Tornado Watch for Polk County in (1 more message)

18:43 <wdsmia> &more

18:43 <Romulus> wdsmia: effect until 1:00 AM CDT on May 02, 2008;

18:45 <xcamel> could be worse..

18:46 <wdsmia> yea just hate seeing Tornado in the forcast

18:48 <wdsmia> &8ball will we see any  Tornado's this year

18:48 <Romulus> wdsmia: Maybe...

18:48 *** Ageless93 is now known as Ageless93[Away]

18:48 * Ageless93[Away] is now away - Reason : Auto-Away after 60 minutes

18:48 <wdsmia> good answer

18:50 <PovAddict> ugh

18:50 <PovAddict> I can't extract openssl source

18:51 <PovAddict> it has symlinks, which msys doesn't support

18:51 <PovAddict> so it tries to just copy the file

18:51 <PovAddict> which doesn't work either, in the way the relative path is set...

18:52 <wdsmia> sux2bu

18:52 <CoderForLife> welcome to Coder's paradise

18:52 <wdsmia> *lo Don

18:52 <CoderForLife> hey Doug

18:52 <CoderForLife> hey Nic

18:53 <CoderForLife> hello Jay in there somewhere

18:53 <xcamel> 'lo Don

18:55 <CoderForLife> Home Despot is closing some stores I see

18:56 <CoderForLife> blame inter-store cannibalization

18:57 <CoderForLife> I sit between 2 stores, each 5 miles from here

18:57 <CoderForLife> bbiaf

18:57 <xcamel> the ACJ article is a bit more in-depth

18:59 <xcamel> bbiab

19:04 *** Ageless93[Away] is now known as Ageless93

19:04 * Ageless93 is no longer away : Gone for 1 hour 16 minutes 19 seconds

19:10 <PovAddict> shell scripts in msys are way too slow....

19:22 *** efc has joined #boinc

19:26 <Ageless93> the mod changes are happening on Seti.

19:26 <Ageless93> finally.

19:26 <Romulus> DNS propagages fast sometimes

19:27 <Ageless93> that'll put an end to hiding of my posts from 2004 and 2005.

19:33 *** Vecnah has quit IRC

19:36 <CoderForLife> hmm  weather is looking suspicious

19:36 <CoderForLife> &wx 45140

19:36 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Temperature: 73.1F / 22.8C | Humidity: 45% | Pressure: 29.72in / 1006.3hPa (Falling) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: West | Wind Speed: 9.2mph / 14.8km/h ; Tonight - Mostly cloudy. A slight chance of showers and thunderstorms late. Lows around 60. South winds 10 to 20 mph. Chance of rain 20 percent.; Friday - Mostly cloudy with a chance of showers and thunderstorms. Highs in the mid 70s. (1 more message)

19:37 <CoderForLife> &more

19:37 <Romulus> CoderForLife: South winds 10 to 20 mph with gusts up to 35 mph. Chance of rain 40 percent.; Friday Night - Mostly cloudy. A chance of showers and thunderstorms in the evening...then showers and thunderstorms likely after midnight. Lows in the upper 50s. South winds 15 to 20 mph. Gusts up to 35 mph in the evening. Chance of rain 70 percent.;

19:37 <CoderForLife> doesn't look too dire

19:37 <efc> moo

19:42 *** Ageless93 has quit IRC

19:46 <CoderForLife> moo

19:46 <CoderForLife> looks and feels like rain but none in the area

19:56 *** cactaur has joined #boinc

19:57 *** Aeternus has quit IRC

20:16 <KathrynM> T-8 Hours and counting until the weekend.  Which also happens to be a 3 day weekend.  God Bless the children.  Monday is Children's Day.

20:16 <PovAddict> uh huh

20:16 <PovAddict> lucky you

20:16 *** infinisoft has joined #boinc

20:17 <PovAddict> 26 hours left here

20:17 *** cactaur has quit IRC

20:18 <PovAddict> 26:42:35

20:20 <CoderForLife> Children's Day?

20:20 <CoderForLife> Do they like take over?  Prepare all the meals?  Drive all the taxis?  Get legislation passed?

20:21 <KathrynM> I wish

20:21 <KathrynM> I could use a sl......  errr assistant for a day

20:21 <CoderForLife> So - you dote on them more than usual??

20:21 <KathrynM> The parents do

20:21 <KathrynM> I don't because I don't have to see them.

20:21 <MTughan> Yeah, we have the day off school too.

20:21 <PovAddict> you mean children legislation would be more sane than adults'? :)

20:22 <KathrynM> probably

20:22 <CoderForLife> no - U.S. experience indicates that the children currently in Washington are only interested in themselves and their own toys and sandboxes

20:22 <KathrynM> Gotta go write time wast.........  err lesson plans :)

20:22 <KathrynM> laterz

20:23 <CoderForLife> cya KathrynM

20:23 <PovAddict> we're having our share of fun too...

20:23 <CoderForLife> C is for Cookie

20:23 <CoderForLife> and Coding

20:23 <xcamel> ossec 1.5 released >>

20:23 <Romulus> Title: Downloads (at

20:23 <PovAddict> govt wants to make a high-speed train

20:24 <CoderForLife> to fetch Brazilian oil?

20:24 <PovAddict> we don't have a single train working right, we have 1/10th of the trains we had decades ago; but instead of fixing that, we'll get in DEBT to make a high-speed train

20:24 <CoderForLife> thx for the link xcamel

20:24 <CoderForLife> stop - don't do it like we do it here

20:26 <CoderForLife> debt is not a good thing

20:27 * CoderForLife looks out the window down over the hill

20:27 <PovAddict> and a high speed train joining provinces is not a useful thing if we don't have a working train joining cities

20:28 <PovAddict> you know how Linux uses keyboard/mouse/network/etc activity to constantly add entropy to its random number generator?

20:28 <PovAddict> our train system could help add more randomness

20:28 <CoderForLife> so you walk many kilometers to get to the HS train, it whisks you to another place where you walk a long ways to your destination

20:28 <PovAddict> you could have a train arrive a minute after the other, or wait an hour

20:29 <Romulus> I want to get ready for w@#%

20:29 * PovAddict slaps Romulus

20:29 <CoderForLife> Ok Rommie - cya later

20:29 <CoderForLife> that's "w@#% (tm)" Rommie, BTW

20:29 <PovAddict> a typical train:

20:29 <Romulus> <> (at

20:30 <CoderForLife> ack!  looks like Tokyo

20:30 <PovAddict> people waiting for train to arrive (on a particularly bad day):

20:30 <Romulus> <> (at

20:31 <xcamel> D.C. madam now "dirtnap" madam

20:31 <CoderForLife> at least I don't see anyone right in someone else's face

20:32 <PovAddict> heh - a seat

20:32 <PovAddict>

20:32 <Romulus> <> (at

20:32 <CoderForLife> that all looks like great (not) fun (not)

20:32 <CoderForLife> Look! it still has foam!

20:33 <PovAddict> courtesy of the "I traveled like sh*t" blog

20:34 <PovAddict> subway:

20:34 <Romulus> <> (at

20:34 <PovAddict> note non-working fans

20:34 <PovAddict> note we have wi-fi but soon will have no walls

20:34 * PovAddict dinner ->

20:34 <CoderForLife> gives new meaning to "wi"

20:36 <CoderForLife> I'm going to start shuting down here - cya folks

20:37 <xcamel> to quote in old spanish... "Oy..."

20:49 <xcamel> &weather 12074

20:49 <Romulus> xcamel: Temperature: 51.4F / 10.8C | Humidity: 36% | Pressure: 30.09in / 1018.8hPa (Steady) | Conditions: Overcast | Wind Direction: SSE | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Tonight - Partly cloudy with a slight chance of showers this evening...then mostly cloudy with showers likely after midnight. Lows in the mid 40s. Southeast winds around 5 mph. Chance of rain 70 percent.; Friday - Mostly cloudy. Showers (1 more message)

20:49 <xcamel> &more

20:49 <Romulus> xcamel: likely in the morning...then scattered showers in the afternoon. Highs in the mid 50s. Southeast winds around 5 mph. Chance of rain 70 percent.; Friday Night - Mostly cloudy with a 30 percent chance of showers. Lows in the mid 40s. Southeast winds around 5 mph.; Flood Warning for Saratoga County in effect until 8:43 PM EDT on May 01, 2008;

21:31 <MTughan> Hey, I finally hit 250K...

21:35 <xcamel> cool..

21:36 <xcamel> 7,639,687

21:38 <MTughan> Show off. :P

21:38 <PovAddict> 295k

21:39 <xcamel> I think Doug hit 8 million

21:40 <PovAddict> he did

21:41 <PovAddict> 9,310,018.91

21:41 <PovAddict> zombie67 is at 14 million :)

21:47 <wdsmia> :)

21:50 *** infinisoft has quit IRC

21:57 <xcamel> nytol..

21:57 * xcamel is away: Gone away for now.

21:57 *** xcamel is now known as xcamel_away

22:08 <MTughan> For those sick of the US primaries:

22:08 <Romulus> <> (at

22:30 *** BiteAbleKat has joined #boinc

22:30 *** BiteAbleKat is now known as tamar

22:30 *** tamar is now known as BiteAbleKat

22:36 <BadBarbarian> "lo BAK

22:43 *** BadBarbarian_ has joined #boinc

22:53 *** BadBarbarian_ has quit IRC

22:59 *** BadBarbarian has quit IRC

23:13 *** NudgeyNR has quit IRC

23:35 *** PovAddic1 has joined #boinc

23:35 *** PovAddict has quit IRC

23:35 *** PovAddic1 is now known as PovAddict

23:42 *** PovIpod has joined #boinc

23:54 <BiteAbleKat> ~in the year 4545~you aint gonna need your teeth wont need your eyes~you wont find a thing to chew~nobodys gonna look at you~

Generated by 2.4 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!