IRC logs of #boinc for Thursday, 2008-08-21

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05:01 <CoderForLife> big day at w@#% today - need to get going early

05:01 <CoderForLife> laterz

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06:25 <hawmps> spork >> 61.80.90.138

07:08 <hawmps> &wx 12020

07:08 <Romulus> hawmps: Temperature: 52.6F / 11.4C | Humidity: 95% | Pressure: 30.12in / 1019.9hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: NW | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Today - Patchy fog this morning. Mostly sunny. Highs around 80. Light and variable winds...becoming southeast around 5 mph this afternoon.; Tonight - Mostly clear. Patchy fog after midnight. Lows in the lower 50s. South winds around 5 mph in the (1 more message)

07:08 <hawmps> &more

07:08 <Romulus> hawmps: evening...becoming light and variable.; Friday - Patchy fog in the morning. Mostly sunny. Highs in the upper 80s. West winds around 5 mph...becoming south around 5 mph in the afternoon.;

07:08 <quail> Rockhopper Robot: Designing and Programming an Autonomous Robot with Linux and Open Source >>> ftp://mirror.internode.on.net/pub/linux.conf.au/2008/Thu/mel8-123.ogg

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07:52 <hamless> hi does anyone know if it is possible to share project hosting across multiple servers?

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08:02 <DerMeister> Well, running the scheduler and the database on two different hosts should be quite easy (in theory, I've never set up a boinc server)

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08:43 <hamless> will the clients be able to connect to either server?

08:46 <DerMeister> the scheduler is your only public server. No client is allowed to connect to the database directly.

08:47 <hamless> oh ok, but is it possible to have more than 1 public sheduler server?

08:49 <hamless> if there a lot of users, it could overwhelm 1 server, so it would be cool to run several parallel servers :)

08:49 <hamless> *are a lot

08:49 <quail> yes, but you have to be good with bind

08:49 <DerMeister> I think so but I don't know if any project already uses such setup

08:49 <DerMeister> as far as I know on most projects the database server is the first thing that gets overwhelmed...

08:50 <hamless> yeah i think the same thing would need to be done with the database server

08:50 <hamless> is there anyone using bind to do this?

08:50 <quail> hamless: it all can be done it all comes down to your routing setup

08:51 <KathrynM> hamless, http://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/wiki/MultiHost

08:51 <Romulus> Title: MultiHost - BOINC - Trac (at boinc.berkeley.edu)

08:51 <KathrynM> does that help at all?

08:51 <quail> hamless: bind is a dns / routing server

08:52 <quail> I know how to do this stuff but explaining I'll be here all night

08:53 <quail> and then there is so many varables

08:54 * quail says learn bind, rsync, ssh, and iptables first

08:54 <quail> and then I'll talk to you in 6 months time

08:55 <hamless> quail, interesting, yeah it would be cool to see a standardized config for boinc servers like this

08:55 <quail> hamless: good starting point learn about clusters

08:55 <hamless> KathrynM, thanks, thats very helpful, do many projects follow this?

08:56 <quail> and a cluster can be anywhere in the world

08:56 <hamless> quail, hmm i use ssh quite often, rsync sometimes, and i have heard of the other two :D

08:56 <KathrynM> hamless, I have no idea.  I'm just an end user who worked a bit on moving stuff over to the Trac wiki

08:57 <quail> hamless: welcome to the world of open source

08:58 <hamless> quail, any idea if someone has made boinc load sharing server setups for amazon ec2 or other vm?

08:58 <quail> hamless: nope sorry with boinc I am just a end user

09:00 <hamless> KathrynM, hehe cool anyway thanks, easier hosting for anyone to host a boinc project would be great :)

09:01 <quail> hamless: look into linode

09:01 <quail> hamless: or host it from home

09:03 <quail> hamless: what sort of boinc project are you looking at doing?

09:04 <hamless> quail, that is where some kind of shared hosting would help, like a project by 5 different people on their home computers, in case some go offline

09:05 <hamless> quail, none actually, what i would like to do is offer free project hosting

09:06 <quail> hamless: you won the xlotto or something?

09:07 <hamless> quail, lol no they would all have to share a couple cheap servers / vps

09:07 <ELGono> hamless: just get a real server permanently on the net ;)

09:08 <quail> hamless: linode does nice vps and it cheap

09:09 * quail is sysadmin of a linode vps for a friend

09:14 <hamless> ELGono, that works fine too but it would be nice to have way that the load could be spread across many servers, probably 10 home pcs would be faster than 1 real server (and cost alot less)

09:14 <hamless> quail, do you know what the data transfer is like for boinc projects?

09:15 <hamless> like would their 12/200gb plan be enough

09:15 <ELGono> hamless depends on the data amount of your project

09:16 <ELGono> like distrubted video encoding sucking down bandwidth

09:16 <ELGono> what kind of data you want to process?

09:16 <hamless> none actually, what i would like to do is offer free project hosting :)

09:17 <hamless> ELGono, any idea if the work units are sent directly by the server, or if they can be shared among peers?

09:19 <quail> hamless: cpdn is big sucker of data

09:19 <quail> seti prob the smallest sucker, but prob has lot more cliets tho

09:19 <quail> clients

09:20 <quail> so it hard to say

09:21 <quail> hence it prob why lot of these projects are government funded

09:21 <quail> and work out of unis

09:21 <hamless> it would be cool if multiple servers could be run for the same project, then any download could the server it gets the best speed from

09:22 <ELGono> well i think most of projects don't like to share hosting of backend to third party

09:23 <hamless> quail, yeah, but having more small projects would be a good way for people to learn about the topic

09:24 <hamless> ELGono, as long as the host is configured properly it should be okay, they can each use separate users & databases

09:24 <hamless> if there were a lot of projects hosted though the bandwidth and system resources would have to be throttled alot though

09:24 <quail> hamless: you'll end up needing a central db somewhere

09:25 <hamless> quail, i meant different databases, within 1 database server. but, i think there are some ways to run parallel servers that are synchronized

09:26 <quail> yes there is

09:26 <hamless> now someone just needs to set it up for me :D

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09:29 <ELGono> lol

09:29 <desti> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080820/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/fema_phones_hacked

09:29 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/6zuu8q> (at news.yahoo.com)

09:30 <ELGono> btw, quail, hawmps, wdsmia ... somebody of you got still a contact to AthlonRob ?

09:30 <quail> hamless: you pay me lots of money I will do it

09:30 <quail> ELGono: sorry not me :-(

09:32 <ELGono> you still remember the name of the "web-crawling" project boinc channel was working on?

09:32 <hamless> quail, better yet, you make detailed config guide, give it away freely, and ill give you lots of hugs!

09:35 <quail> ELGono: you lost me

09:35 <quail> hamless: sorry mate that take up to much of spare time I not have

09:38 <ELGono> i'm working on a nice project now, just got the "okay" for setting up a crawl server

09:38 <ELGono> crawling the net and storing complete webserver on disk like wikipedia

09:38 <ELGono> the disks are sent to afrika to establish some kind of "offline" internet for universities there

09:38 <hamless> quail, hehe ah well, maybe you could just get things started or make an outline?

09:39 <quail> hamless: I have never done it

09:40 <quail> and I have only been thorizing from what I know that can relate into doing what you want

09:40 <quail> putting it into practice that another story

09:41 <hamless> quail, actually there is some good info on the wiki http://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/wiki/MultiHost , do you think that would work well? not sure if i can follow it all but might give it a try

09:41 <Romulus> Title: MultiHost - BOINC - Trac (at boinc.berkeley.edu)

09:42 <quail> hamless: go break it and fix it, it the only way to learn

09:42 <hamless> guess this is the stumbling block - "The project admin account on all hosts must be able to access the project's MySQL database."

09:42 <hamless> just trying to figure out if it will do what i want :D

09:43 <quail> hamless: spend 6 months learn what I mentioned earlier

09:43 <quail> oh and learn bash :-P

09:44 <hamless> but i want one noooooow.... :P

09:44 <hamless> it seems like other people would want to do the same thing, kind of hoping that some project is already doing this :D

09:44 <quail> all else fails pay me the big dollars :-P

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09:45 <hamless> 1) rob bank 2) hire programmer 3) ??? 4) profit!

09:45 <quail> hamless: and if you going to cough up the big dollars I sure ELGono like a job too

09:46 <PovAdct_w> hamless: it's useless to try to aim for *so* much reliability by putting many servers; clients always keep a work queue so they still have stuff to do when/if server is down

09:46 <hamless> quail, great now i gotta knock off 2 local branches

09:47 <quail> hamless: that your problem

09:47 <quail> hamless: I want to be paid in sterling too

09:49 <quail> hamless: where are you?

09:49 <hamless> PovAdct_w, besides reliability it could be good for shared hosting, like a very popular project could be hosted by 5 people in various places

09:49 <PovAdct_w> hamless: how do you keep the databases in sync?

09:50 <hamless> quail, nowhere that accepts that form of currency, but i will get some just for you :D

09:50 <quail> hamless: and you need reliable hosts

09:50 <PovAdct_w> and the feeder daemon keeps a few rows of the database in memory, good luck keeping *that* in sync too

09:50 <ELGono> my speech .... get a real 24/7 server

09:51 <quail> my speech .... get a life

09:51 <PovAdct_w> the only thing that can be *geographically* distributed is downloads and uploads really...

09:51 <hamless> PovAdct_w, that sounds like it is the problem, maybe the boinc server could use a different backend like hadoop or something

09:51 <PovAdct_w> hamless: if you use hadoop, it's not boinc anymore, it's hadoop

09:52 <hamless> PovAdct_w, it seems like the daemons can be run in parallel, as long as the sql databases were synced

09:53 <hamless> ELGono, if you a lot of traffic, hosting on 1 server does not scale well

09:53 <hamless> PovAdct_w, well i meant for the servers, while clients would still connect the same way

09:54 <PovAdct_w> SETI@Home has hundreds of thousands of users, has multiple machines running the daemons but all against the same database

09:54 <PovAdct_w> actually I think it has two databases replicated

09:54 <PovAdct_w> anyway, they still have single points of failure, because that is not the point; they just want the extra server performance

09:54 <ELGono> well i believe a 8cpu host with gigabit uplink performes better than 10 clients on dsl

09:55 <ELGono> talkin about "real servers"

09:55 <hamless> yeah thats cool too, its just expensive in terms of network connections and hardware

09:56 <quail> ELGono: what you on about, he needs to talk to sgi

09:56 <PovAdct_w> hamless: I first hosted a project from a virtual machine on my home computer

09:56 <PovAdct_w> tiny upload speed

09:56 <PovAdct_w> then moved to a friend's dedicated server, quite far from a powerful server

09:57 <PovAdct_w> only reason was the internet speed, I was already doing fine with CPU/RAM in the VM...

09:58 <ELGono> thats what i meant

09:58 <ELGono> distributing work as no matter of cpu power, it's mostly a problem of bandwidth

09:59 <PovAdct_w> and the main bottleneck was the database

09:59 <hamless> yup its definitely possible to host with very little reasources, thats why im interested in the absolute minimum, so that the most simultaneous projects could be hosted

09:59 * quail suggest insead of robbing a couple banks take over a server at NASA

10:00 <hamless> wonder if anyone has tried combining boinc with p2p file distribution, to help with server b/w costs

10:00 <quail> NASA got some shweet sgi servers

10:00 <PovAdct_w> it has been tried, there is some old untested unmaintained code that adds BitTorrent to the client downloads

10:00 <quail> hamless: what drugs are you on?

10:01 <PovAdct_w> but downloads are very easy to distribute anyway

10:01 <hamless> *excuse me astronauts, these machines are under maintenance*

10:01 <PovAdct_w> I know of at least one project (BURP) with a dozen download mirrors *contributed by users*

10:02 <PovAdct_w> Einstein has a dozen mirrors hosted on universities

10:02 <hamless> download mirrors of what, the install files, or the actual work units?

10:02 <PovAdct_w> the workunits and the science applications

10:03 <PovAdct_w> Einstein has like 13MB input files (but you can run multiple workunits before needing to download another file)

10:03 <hamless> thats cool, wonder how they did that

10:03 <PovAdct_w> any plain old webserver can be a "download server"...

10:06 <hamless> ok so what does the actual boinc server have to process then, the uploaded work unit results?

10:06 <PovAdct_w> that depends a lot on what the project is doing with the results

10:08 <hamless> hmm interesting

10:10 <PovAdct_w> SETI@Home needs some extra thousand dollars to build the servers (and write the software) to analyze the massive amount of uploaded data

10:11 <PovAdct_w> I mean, they have a database with millions of signals (as analyzed by people's computers based on the raw radio data), but they have to check, for example, if there are lots of signals coming from the same point in the universe

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11:22 <zombie67> Thu Aug 21 08:20:31 2008|SZTAKI Desktop Grid|Message from server: platform 'x86_64-apple-darwin' not found

11:22 <zombie67> since when is the default BOINC client asking for 64 bit appple?

11:23 <zombie67> 6.2.18

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17:23 <wdsmia> &wx 50319

17:23 <Romulus> wdsmia: Temperature: 70.5F / 21.4C | Humidity: 92% | Pressure: 29.87in / 1011.4hPa (Falling) | Conditions: Light Rain | Wind Direction: South | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Tonight - Mostly cloudy. Patchy drizzle in the evening. Patchy fog in the evening...then areas of fog after midnight. Low in the mid 60s. South wind 5 to 10 mph.; Friday - Partly sunny. Warmer. High in the upper 80s. South wind 10 to 20 (1 more message)

17:24 <wdsmia> &more

17:24 <Romulus> wdsmia: mph.; Friday Night - Partly cloudy. A chance of thunderstorms in the evening...then thunderstorms likely after midnight. Low in the mid 60s. South wind 5 to 15 mph. Chance of thunderstorms 60 percent.;

17:54 <CoderForLife> home again

17:55 <PovIpod> meh

17:55 <CoderForLife> _o/ PovIpod

17:59 <CoderForLife> &dict meh

17:59 <Romulus> CoderForLife: No definition for "meh" could be found.

17:59 <PovIpod> sister freed computer bbl

18:00 <CoderForLife> it was held hostage?

18:01 <PovIpod> she was using it

18:01 <CoderForLife> against it's will...

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18:01 <PovIpod> against mine

18:01 <PovIpod> oh there I connected

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18:03 <CoderForLife> http://weblog.infoworld.com/tech-bottom-line/archives/2008/08/michael_dell_is.html?source=NLC-DAILY&cgd=2008-08-21

18:03 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/6h795a> (at weblog.infoworld.com)

18:36 <CoderForLife> bbl

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18:54 <xcamel> re-hi

18:54 <MTughan> 'lo Jay

18:54 <xcamel> Hi Mike

19:00 <xcamel> http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080821/bs_afp/usitinternetenergychipcompanyintel_080821212944

19:00 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/5flp7d> (at news.yahoo.com)

19:00 <xcamel> Intel cuts electric cords with wireless power system

19:01 <PovAddict> reminds me of that RFC about "Electricity over IP"

19:02 <xcamel> and an old scifi short story called "The Lost Art"

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19:33 <xcamel> hmmm...

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20:33 <xcamel> mighty quiet...

20:49 <CoderForLife> back

20:49 <CoderForLife> re-hi

20:50 <CoderForLife> after much CD-ROM drive frustration, doing in-place F8 to F9 upgrade

20:53 <quail> &wx ypad

20:53 <Romulus> quail: Temperature: 50°F / 10°C | Humidity: 71% | Pressure: 30.48in / 1032hPa | Conditions: Partly Cloudy | Wind Direction: SSW | Wind Speed: 10mph / 17km/h | Updated: 10:00 AM CST; Chance of Rain. High:53 F. / 12 C.; Chance of Rain. Low:41 F. / 5 C.; Chance of Rain. High:51 F. / 11 C.; Chance of Rain. Low:41 F. / 5 C.; Partly Cloudy. High:59 F. / 15 C.; Scattered Clouds. Low:41 F. / 5 (1 more message)

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21:09 <xcamel> 'lo BB

21:10 <xcamel> oh.. re-hi Don

21:10 <efc> moo xcamel

21:10 <CoderForLife> hey xcamel efc

21:11 <efc> &math convert 0.2 miles to meters

21:11 <Romulus> efc: 321.8688

21:11 <CoderForLife> about to head off to bed - just looking in

21:11 * CoderForLife looks at efc

21:12 <CoderForLife> yup - just what I thought

21:12 <efc> was trying sprints for that far

21:12 <CoderForLife> that concept makes me tired

21:12 <efc> was able to get a 5:40 pace for that far

21:12 <CoderForLife> off to bed

21:12 <CoderForLife> gn

21:14 <efc> night cfl

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21:29 <xcamel> gzoo is far to addictive...

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22:47 <Soul_keeper> bla

22:47 * quail hates shopping

22:48 <Soul_keeper> buy me food

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