IRC logs of #boinc for Monday, 2008-09-15

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01:04 <BadBarbarian_> evening all

01:05 <efc> Moo

01:05 <BadBarbarian_> hey bud wasup

01:05 <efc> Not much.. fairly calm night, nice bright full moon

01:05 <BadBarbarian_> finaly got my quad oced properly lol

01:06 <BadBarbarian_> need better memory to go faster than 3 gig on my q6600

01:06 <efc> what fsb?

01:07 <BadBarbarian_> 1033

01:07 <BadBarbarian_> wait let me check

01:10 <BadBarbarian_> 1333

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01:12 <BadBarbarian_> running 58c crunching under xp x64

01:17 <efc> sounds like a schremah

01:18 <Soul_keeper> my c2q tops over 60c often

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02:31 <efc> yikes, lehman brothers...

02:32 <efc> I live within sight of I-20. (Georgia). There were caravans of utility trucks headed over to Texas.

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03:15 * Tank_Master sends hordes of lemmings over efc

03:21 <efc> Ready, aim, fire at will

03:21 <efc> Its dove season, the guy next door has his automatic shotgun ready

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03:23 <Tank_Master> nice

03:24 <Tank_Master> should easly take care of those lemmings

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06:37 <CoderOnTheRoad> anybody home?

06:38 <CoderOnTheRoad> I have come into w@#% to get Internet access.  Power went out at 2:30 yesterday due to wind storm.

06:38 <CoderOnTheRoad> Local power company shows 588,000+ customers out

06:38 <CoderOnTheRoad> http://www.duke-energy.com/externaldata/midwestoutages/maps/CGEmap.htm

06:38 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/6kt3dr> (at www.duke-energy.com)

06:39 <CoderOnTheRoad> at w@#%, we are on generator backup, but many circuits are apparently not wired into the generator

06:41 <CoderOnTheRoad> I am working to get my generator online at home, but seem to be a bit short on 10W30 oil (it seems to take more than the manual calls for), and with the wall construction, I have no place to roll it outside

06:43 <CoderOnTheRoad> this is the most number of customers the utility has ever had out at one time - as many as 90% of all customers were out yetserday

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06:43 <CoderOnTheRoad> they are estimating as much as a week to get everyone back on

06:43 <hawmps> grrrr...

06:44 <CoderOnTheRoad> they are recalling crews they sent to Texas

06:44 <CoderOnTheRoad> hello hawmps

06:45 <CoderOnTheRoad> crews they sent to help with Ike damage in Texas are needed badly back home

06:46 <CoderOnTheRoad> I'll be mostly offline for the next few days, I  imagine

06:46 <hawmps> ip kills >> 59.106.15.112, 89.165.62.241, 121.247.193.82

06:46 <CoderOnTheRoad> even now, I am on laptoip battery power

06:47 <CoderOnTheRoad> using the wireless access at work

06:47 <CoderOnTheRoad> I have no idea when power will be restored

06:48 <CoderOnTheRoad> there is no gas stations working for miles around, so people are scrambling to find gas

06:48 <hawmps> power flickered here - 40mph wind gusts...

06:48 <CoderOnTheRoad> 588,000+ without power here

06:48 <hawmps> wow

06:48 <CoderOnTheRoad> you missed my link

06:48 <CoderOnTheRoad> http://www.duke-energy.com/externaldata/midwestoutages/maps/CGEmap.htm

06:48 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/6kt3dr> (at www.duke-energy.com)

06:49 <CoderOnTheRoad> we are very screwed

06:49 <CoderOnTheRoad> lights and PCs are out at w@#% HERE

06:51 <CoderOnTheRoad> the said from Louisville to Columbus that 1.5 milltion people were without power yesterdat

06:57 <CoderOnTheRoad> I'm going to drop off - it may be awhile before I can get back

06:57 <CoderOnTheRoad> cya

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07:56 <hawmps> http://news.skymania.com/2008/09/first-photo-of-planet-around-alien-star.html

07:56 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/6ztr98> (at news.skymania.com)

08:19 <PovAddict> off to w&@$

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09:42 <PovAdct_w> what a power outage CFL is having

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10:01 <hawmps> bigtime..

10:01 <hawmps> we have a few thoushand out up here too..

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10:03 <hawmps> correction... 80,000 out in NY

10:17 <Soul_keeper> hawmps, what happened in NY to cause this ?

10:30 <hawmps> big wind from ike..

10:32 <Soul_keeper> ok

10:32 <Soul_keeper> so just knocked down power lines ?

10:32 <Soul_keeper> tornadoes ?

10:32 <Soul_keeper> my friend in houston is operating on a generator ...

10:36 <Soul_keeper> ?Two years from now, spam will be solved,?   --bill gates 2006

10:37 <PovAdct_w> yeah right

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11:17 <BadBarbarian_> Mornin

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11:54 <hawmps> 'lo BB

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12:14 <PovAdct_w> http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh10/runfast800/fix7.jpg

12:14 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/5qoo4u> (at i252.photobucket.com)

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12:22 <Romulus> New news from boinc: BOINC news September 15, 2008

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12:56 <PovAdct_w> http://www.techfresh.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/iphone-shuffle.jpg :D

12:56 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/6a4hby> (at www.techfresh.net)

13:03 <hawmps> ip kill 65.98.27.153

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16:17 <xcamel> 'lo

16:29 <wdsmia_w> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/odd_bicyclist_vs_bear

16:29 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/4bebqv> (at news.yahoo.com)

16:31 <Soul_keeper> haha

16:37 <wdsmia_w> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080915/ap_on_fe_st/odd_not_a_cat

16:37 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/5q5pc8> (at news.yahoo.com)

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16:49 <wdsmia_w> bbl

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17:07 <PovAddict> boo

17:08 <bigt0242000> ahhhh :-o

17:09 <xcamel> oink

17:09 <bigt0242000> anybody tried the organizational grid manager yet?

17:10 <PovAddict> I read about it, still don't understand what on earth it *is* :)

17:10 <PovAddict> if I had an "organization" that needed a "grid", I'd set up a plain old BOINC project

17:10 <bigt0242000> same here

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17:11 <bigt0242000> from the diagrams it looks like an over complicated boincview with a little bam thrown in

17:12 <PovAddict> lol

17:12 <xcamel> some boincophiles could complicate a rock.

17:12 <bigt0242000> lol

17:13 <bigt0242000> wouldn't know of an open source boincview replacement would you?

17:13 <xcamel> boinc started as a simple mousetrap - now as complicated as the LHC

17:14 <xcamel> um... windows or *nix?

17:14 <bigt0242000> we're going to create a blackhole with the lhc

17:14 <bigt0242000> windows or both

17:15 <bigt0242000> there's few people in the boinc synergy forums looking for one

17:15 <yoyo[RKN]> moo

17:16 <xcamel> ksetispy is out there...

17:17 <yoyo[RKN]> is there some rss feed service in net, which creates one rss out of many?

17:17 <PovAddict> yoyo[RKN]: many probably

17:17 <Soul_keeper> ksetispy hasn't been updated in a few years if i'm not mistaken

17:17 * yoyo[RKN] needs a url

17:17 <PovAddict> and then you'd need an aggregator service to aggregate the RSS feeds from the aggregator services

17:17 <PovAddict> :P

17:17 <Soul_keeper> i havn't found a viable replacement

17:17 <bigt0242000> i saw one that was in pre-alpha that was mentioned in the seti forums but i haven't heard back from the developer yet

17:18 <PovAddict> yoyo[RKN]: I think stuff like Google Reader provides a RSS feed for all the RSSs you subscribed on it

17:18 <xcamel> most everyone uses damn-bam-bam

17:18 <PovAddict> and Yahoo has one like it

17:18 <bigt0242000> yeah ksetispy hasnt been updated since 2004

17:18 <yoyo[RKN]> hmm

17:18 <Rookie_69> My latest Pasquale WU is almost complete after a month and a half... give or take.

17:18 <xcamel> kboincspy is out there... (sorry)

17:19 <xcamel> duh on me.

17:19 <bigt0242000> yeah google reader was the frist thing that popped in to my head

17:19 <PovAddict> some people prefer real time control rather than attaching projects with a 1-hour latency (web account managers); it's better if your farm is inside your own house

17:20 <bigt0242000> my farm is in my own house

17:20 <PovAddict> in my opinion, BAM is more suited to attaching projects on geographically-dispersed machines

17:20 <bigt0242000> i still use bam

17:20 <PovAddict> many people attach computers they don't have frequent physical access to (grandma's PC)

17:26 <bigt0242000> here was the one mentioned in the seti forums. no dl avalible though http://sourceforge.net/projects/boincguardian/

17:26 <Romulus> Title: SourceForge.net: BoRG - Boinc Remote Guardian (at sourceforge.net)

17:26 <PovAddict> eww .net

17:28 <bigt0242000> what about .net

17:29 <PovAddict> heh boincguardian hasn't been updated in 3 years

17:29 <zombie67> anything that helps me attach/detach projects without having to type out the whole URL 20 times is a huge help.  wether the machines are local or not.

17:29 <bigt0242000> lol

17:30 <PovAddict> bigt0242000: http://boincguardian.blogspot.com/

17:30 <Romulus> Title: BoRG - BOinc Remote Guardian (at boincguardian.blogspot.com)

17:30 <yoyo[RKN]> just copy the accountfiles, zombie67 to attach a project

17:31 <bigt0242000> PovAddict: yeah i read that

17:31 <bigt0242000> copying the acct files is to much work lol

17:31 <PovAddict> zombie67: easily done from the command line

17:31 <PovAddict> with boinccmd

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18:15 <wdsmia> re-hi

18:23 * Tank_Master whips wdsmia with a mouse cord

18:31 * wdsmia moons Tank_Master thru the webcam

18:33 <xcamel> now that's disturbing...

18:34 <wdsmia> yea I better not ...it might give him ideas

18:39 <zombie67> I vnc into each machine, so copy/paste is not possible

18:39 <PovAddict> zombie67: ah you don't have remote RPC set up?

18:39 <zombie67> no

18:39 <PovAddict> well you should :)

18:39 <zombie67> and some are macs, some are windows, some are on a local net, some not

18:39 <PovAddict> "anything that helps me attach/detach projects without having to type out the whole URL 20 times" will probably need remote GUI RPCs

18:40 <zombie67> or just use BAM

18:40 <PovAddict> yeah or that

18:40 <zombie67> I was responding to the BAM comments earlier

18:41 <zombie67> the only problem, is that Willy doesn't add projects to BAM until much later in the life cycle, than what I need.

18:44 <Tank_Master> now this is quite unusual...

18:45 <Tank_Master> the light from the sun is yellow

18:45 <PovAddict> ...

18:45 <Tank_Master> not white

18:45 <Tank_Master> almost like looking through yellow sun galsses

18:46 <Tank_Master> I wonder if those arent clouds up there, but smoke...

18:50 <zombie67> nuclear fallout

18:50 <xcamel> aliens?

18:50 <Romulus> hmm... aliens are disturbing our CPUs, xcamel

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18:50 <zombie67> judgement day

18:50 <xcamel> 'lo Ed

18:51 <efc> Moo

18:51 <efc> zombie67: August 4, 1997. Major banks and investment firms begin to implode at a geometric rate.

18:52 <efc> Did Ohio get hit hard? Friends Quake server in Cincinatti has been down a while now.

18:53 <xcamel> current events just sweep the criminals out of the market..

18:53 <xcamel> ohio out of power for up to 3 more days...

18:59 <efc> Unacceptable. My Quake server must be restored immediately. I blame the White House.

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19:10 <CoderForLife> the power is back on

19:11 <CoderForLife> &ping

19:11 <Romulus> pong

19:11 <CoderForLife> &wx 45140

19:11 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Temperature: 66.5°F / 19.2°C | Humidity: 75% | Pressure: 30.04in / 1017.2hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Overcast | Wind Direction: West | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Tonight - Mostly cloudy this evening...then becoming partly cloudy. Lows in the lower 50s. North winds 5 to 10 mph.; Tuesday - Partly sunny. Highs in the lower 70s. North winds 5 to 10 mph.; Tuesday Night - Mostly clear. Lows in the (1 more message)

19:15 <PovAddict> hey CoderForLife

19:15 <CoderForLife> hey =)

19:15 <CoderForLife> I'm back

19:16 <CoderForLife> 29 hour power outage

19:20 <xcamel> power back now?

19:20 <CoderForLife> yup

19:20 <xcamel> we got lucky here..

19:21 <xcamel> 80,000 out in NY this AM

19:21 <CoderForLife> ugh

19:22 <CoderForLife> bbiab

19:30 <xcamel> lol - no cable guy today... nice neighbor...

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19:52 <xcamel> tap...tap...tap...

19:55 * Tank_Master slaps xcamel around with a pink Macintosh

19:56 <xcamel> Macintosh are red, and they grow here.

19:57 <CoderForLife> trying to get the web cam back online

19:57 <CoderForLife> trying to pysch up to lug the little generator around the house and over the big rock and sand piles into the garage

19:58 <CoderForLife> so I'm away for a day, and the stock market disappears down a rat hole

19:59 <PovAddict> you're clearly important for the stock market

19:59 <CoderForLife> Hannity/Palin here tomorrow

19:59 <CoderForLife> yeah, and my football team lost because I wasn't watching

19:59 <CoderForLife> I take care of everything

20:00 <CoderForLife> too much to do - can't watch Terminator tonight

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20:01 <xcamel> anyway - if you're into history, hovis bakery (http://hovisbakeries.co.uk) has the most amazing 2 minute commercial out for their 120 birthday..

20:02 * CoderForLife tries to catch up on the last 29 hours

20:02 <xcamel> warning - it it HD and high bandwidth.

20:02 <xcamel> but it must be seen to be believed.

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20:08 <xcamel> sorry..

20:08 <xcamel> http://www.hovisbakery.co.uk/

20:08 <Romulus> Title: Hovis Bakery - As good today as it's always been (at www.hovisbakery.co.uk)

20:12 <wdsmia> that took some bucks err pounds to produce

20:13 <xcamel> it sure did..

20:13 <xcamel> simply amazing...

20:14 <xcamel> if they made commercials like that here, who would need 'regular TV' ??

20:17 <CoderForLife> speaking of pounds, even a small generator weigh a bunch

20:21 <CoderForLife> I'm one of the lucky ones - still 586,918 without power

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20:23 <xcamel> I thought you already had one...

20:24 <CoderForLife> I have a 15KW one, which necessiates that it get rolled out of the walk-out basement doors, onto the green concrete pad, and plugged into the house

20:24 <CoderForLife> no green concrete pad - large hole

20:25 <CoderForLife> had to borrow a 2200w one and make do

20:25 <efc> 15KW pretty big to roll

20:25 <CoderForLife> 6" drop off onto a dirt bank, and then a 20 foot drop

20:26 <CoderForLife> dirt bank is 3 feet wide

20:26 <xcamel> mine is 45KW

20:26 <CoderForLife> so I had no backup plan for use of the generator if the backyard was gone

20:26 * CoderForLife shrugs his shoulders

20:27 <xcamel> no rolling that one without the tractor...

20:27 <CoderForLife> I'd say not

20:27 <CoderForLife> not sure what mine weighs, but it's a whole big bunch

20:27 <xcamel> technically, 23.7KW single phase.

20:27 <CoderForLife> mine will peak to 22kW

20:27 <CoderForLife> can run the central air

20:28 <CoderForLife> if I can get it out the back door...

20:28 <CoderForLife> soon...

20:28 <efc> ours is enough to run the wood stove fan and a few other pleantries..

20:29 <xcamel> and pleasantries too...

20:29 <CoderForLife> compared to this, I have no probelms -->  http://www.duke-energy.com/externaldata/midwestoutages/maps/CGEmap.htm

20:29 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/6kt3dr> (at www.duke-energy.com)

20:29 <xcamel> we're down to about 6K now

20:29 <xcamel> remote areas..

20:30 <CoderForLife> web cam working now - just in time

20:31 <efc> worst we ever had, was about a week in the early 90s winter storm

20:31 <CoderForLife> if you look closely you can just make out the black bear in the shade of a cloudy moonless night

20:33 <xcamel> hope he doesn't sneeze -

20:33 <zombie67> MT?

20:33 <Romulus> It has been said that MT is right, zombie67

20:33 <CoderForLife> the wall has jumped up - too bad the web cam was sleeping today

20:34 <CoderForLife> big hole in the time lapse

20:35 <xcamel> seems to be a black hole... call cern....

20:38 <CoderForLife> they're looking for one, I hear

20:41 <efc> There was a great disturbance in the market cap, as if millions of shares cried out in terror and were suddenly worthless.

20:44 <xcamel> great day to buy... everything is on sale!

20:45 <xcamel> Did I mention that Raines walked away from Fan/Fred with nearly $100 million in bonuses - all entirely based on fabricated numbers and cooked books?

20:45 <efc> I had been thinking Lehman's was a bargain.. something that big couldn't go under. Glad I'm too lazy to invest.

20:46 <CoderForLife> I hear there were no discounts in the severance package sector

20:46 <efc> xcamel: For similar compensation, I can drive your business into the ground

20:46 <xcamel> Gorilick, and Johnson too...

20:46 <CoderForLife> No! Me! Pick me!

20:47 <xcamel> Fan/Fred top political donations... #1 Chris Dodd, #2 Obamallamadingdong...

20:47 <CoderForLife> hmm Duke Energy stock was not affected as much as it should have been

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20:48 <xcamel> Duke is fairly solid..

20:48 <efc> Dad does their preferred some

20:49 <CoderForLife> the legal fees alone will be a drag on earning

20:49 <CoderForLife> s*

20:50 <CoderForLife> 150 Duke crews and trucks were in Tennessee this morning, heading north

20:50 <xcamel> I doubt they can be sued for it..

20:51 <CoderForLife> no, but people can try

20:51 <efc> oh yeah.. parent's place is along I20. there have been caravans of trucks for days

20:51 <PovAddict> people in US sue for so many nonsense things...

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20:51 <xcamel> good thing you live on the wrong end of the planet...

20:51 <CoderForLife> careful PovAddict =)

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20:52 <CoderForLife> someone has the DSL blues

20:52 * PovAddict looks at hawmps

20:52 <xcamel> here we go again with the stupid cable router..

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20:52 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o xcamel

20:52 <efc> Upgrade to 56k (or in my case 22k)

20:52 <CoderForLife> he winds

20:53 <CoderForLife> and the pitch...

20:53 <PovAddict> efc: you're a luddite :)

20:53 *** xcamel sets mode: -o xcamel

20:53 * efc isn't ghosting in and out like channel 68 on rabbit ears

20:53 <CoderForLife> The TV people...

20:53 <PovAddict> I'm not either :)

20:54 <PovAddict> btw... getting ontopic for a second...

20:55 <PovAddict> from what I've seen in the BOINC workshop slides, most of the new features (particularly server side) are just an attempt to get funding

20:55 <CoderForLife> ah, true consultant style

20:56 <Didactylos> Figures.

20:56 <xcamel> yeah... go figure.

20:56 <CoderForLife> get hired, then spend the balance of your contract getting the next contract

20:56 <xcamel> boinc has turned into a fiasco.

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20:57 <PovAddict> "Despite 17 years of volunteer computing it appears that no success science stories come from it."

20:57 <xcamel> ...someone (POV) needs to put an opensource boinc alternative out there...

20:57 <Didactylos_> There are already incredibly precise earthquake detectors.

20:58 <PovAddict> the main "improvement" I'm against of is the "let any idiot scientist get a BOINC project running in an hour" features

20:58 <Didactylos_> PovAddict: they're selling it wrong.

20:58 <Didactylos_> Distributed computing is a tool, like  hammer or supercomputer.

20:59 <Didactylos_> There are success stories, if you ignore SETI.

20:59 <PovAddict> has anyone seen any significant success story coming from supercomputers?

21:00 <PovAddict> I think we just take for granted that supercomputers are useful for science

21:00 <Didactylos_> And the same with DC.

21:00 <PovAddict> NSF apparently doesn't :)

21:01 <Didactylos_> WCG's first cancer project has paved the way for better cancer diagnosis and treatment. They have NIH funding for the next stage (a pilot prgram).

21:01 <xcamel> bad climate models....

21:02 <PovAddict> Didactylos: but did WCG write an academic paper about it and notify DA about it?

21:02 <Didactylos_> WCG don't write papers, and nobody cares what DA knows.

21:02 <PovAddict> exactly...

21:02 <xcamel> well said

21:03 <Didactylos_> Last time I checked, the scientists had a whole pile of papers, pending, mostly IEEE proceedings.

21:04 <xcamel> reams and reams of white paper - with nothing on it.

21:04 <zombie67> F@H has had some sucess, right?

21:05 <Didactylos_> And AutoDock, used by several projects, may not be very exciting from a technical viewpoint, but they are getting real results.

21:05 <zombie67> don't forget about SIMAP

21:05 <zombie67> They built/are building a library

21:05 <PovAddict> dinner ->

21:06 <Didactylos_> F@H have their results spun by Sony, so I'm left with no idea what they have really achieved.

21:06 <zombie67> of genetic info that is available for many (any?) to use.

21:06 <infinisoft> Any, they have a public web-based interface to it.

21:06 <Didactylos_> Yes. And WCG's Genome Comparison has done the same, with a better algorithm.

21:08 <Didactylos_> Their public database should be ready within a few months.

21:08 <Didactylos_> But their validation will come when other scientists use the resources, and start citing them.

21:09 <zombie67> right.  DC makes data

21:09 <zombie67> it is what happens with that data that is important

21:11 <Didactylos_> DA still treats the projects as his customers - he only does lipservice to the idea that the end users may have something to say.

21:12 <xcamel> as Captain Obvious flies in...

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21:21 * CoderForLife is now known as GratefulForAShower

21:22 <CoderForLife> off 4 2 nite

21:22 <CoderForLife> glad to be able to get back here to #boinc

21:22 <CoderForLife> gn all

21:24 <xcamel> later, Don.

21:24 <CoderForLife> later Jay =)

21:25 <zombie67> DA treates SOME projects....

21:29 <xcamel> like broken toys?

21:34 <ergZay> for use with some firewall systems on linux

21:34 <ergZay> what is the service name for boinc remote control

21:34 <ergZay> and is it tcp or udp

21:37 <Didactylos> TCP port 31416.

21:37 <Didactylos> Most unimaginatively named.

21:39 <ergZay> something ive noticed

21:40 <ergZay> when you try and connect to a computer with the boinc manager

21:40 <ergZay> and it has a firewall and gets blocked

21:40 <ergZay> the UI seems to lag quite a bit till you reconnect to something else

21:40 <ergZay> the UI of boincmanager that is

21:41 <ergZay> doesnt seem to use any more cpu usage though

21:41 <PovAddict> the UI always hangs if the client doesn't respond

21:41 <ergZay> it doesnt hang but just gets laggy

21:41 <ergZay> atleast on mac os x

21:41 <PovAddict> it's waiting for the connection to work *instead* of redrawing the window, watching for keyboard/mouse, etc

21:41 <ergZay> does it go into a do loop and spam the connection to keep trying to connect?

21:42 <PovAddict> well, most firewalls don't just block connections and reply with "connection refused"

21:42 <ergZay> unless its a stealth firewall

21:42 <xcamel> good firewalls appear to be "nothing there"

21:42 <PovAddict> exactly... if it's stealth, the app will eventually time out

21:43 <ergZay> so which causes the laggy UI?

21:43 <ergZay> or both

21:43 <PovAddict> *anything* the manager does with the connection to the client will make it stop paying attention to keyboard/mouse

21:43 <PovAddict> until said network operation finishes

21:44 <ergZay> wouldnt this be called a bug?

21:45 <PovAddict> yep

21:46 <PovAddict> apparently will be "fixed" in 6.4... eventually...

21:46 <PovAddict> but the code to do that is... not pretty

21:46 * PovAddict looks at Didactylos

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21:46 <ergZay> rewrite of the gui to make it multitasking?

21:47 <ergZay> vs single tasking

21:47 <xcamel> more multithreaded...

21:47 <ergZay> thats what i was thinking of saying

21:47 <ergZay> but wasnt sure

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21:48 <ergZay> oh one other thing

21:48 <ergZay> why when you connect to a project using the project selector in the gui, why does it reorder all the projects differently each time?

21:48 <ergZay> it'd be nice to not have to refind where it is now every time i add a project

21:48 <ergZay> alphabetical would be good for example

21:49 <PovAddict> ergZay: that's a feature... apparently

21:49 <ergZay> eh?

21:49 <PovAddict> so that people don't always click on the first ones

21:49 <PovAddict> ...or something

21:49 <ergZay> bugs are unwanted features

21:49 <PovAddict> :)

21:49 <ergZay> who makes these desicions?

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21:50 <ergZay> seeing as this is science and all is there some oversight comittee or something lol?

21:50 <xcamel> now that's funny...

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21:52 <xcamel> here we go again...

21:52 <ergZay> btw what does boinc do if it hits its space limit

21:52 <ergZay> or memory limit

21:52 <ergZay> or swap limit

21:53 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o xcamel

21:53 *** xcamel sets mode: +b hawmps_!*@*

21:53 *** hawmps_ was kicked by xcamel (User terminated!)

21:53 <ergZay> ?

21:53 <ergZay> who was that

21:53 <Romulus> or what drives many of the ATA crowd

21:53 *** xcamel sets mode: -o xcamel

21:53 <xcamel> my other machine...

21:53 <ergZay> ?

21:54 <xcamel> fear not...

21:54 <ergZay> anyway to my question

21:54 <xcamel> I'll fix it tomorrow..

21:55 <ergZay> so does it just limit itself? or delete old files then?

21:55 <ergZay> for the space limit

21:55 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o xcamel

21:55 <ergZay> or error out

21:55 *** xcamel sets mode: -b hawmps_!*@*

21:55 *** xcamel sets mode: -o xcamel

21:56 <xcamel> laterz...

21:58 <PovAddict> ergZay: if a workunit needs more memory than your settings allow, it's not even downloaded

21:58 <PovAddict> same for disk

21:58 <PovAddict> if a workunit starts using more memory than it said it would use, I think it's killed and marked as an error

21:59 <PovAddict> if you change your settings after you got work, or if you set separate settings for "memory when computer in use / not in use", workunits may sometimes get into "waiting for memory" status

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22:09 <infinisoft> Awww, Primegrid isn't playing nice with CPU throttling and suspending

22:09 <infinisoft> And the AMD CPU I'm dealing with is doing its own thermal throttling I think :(

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22:30 <ergZay> if a cpu starts to do thermal throttling will you see the cpu% drop in 'top'?

22:30 <PovAddict> ergZay: I don't think so

22:30 <PovAddict> the CPU will just compute slower

22:30 <ergZay> or will the clock speed itself go down so it will still be the same %?

22:30 <ergZay> k

22:31 <ergZay> as i think ive noticed my system doing that as well

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22:31 <ergZay> because of that i dled a fan control program to scale up the rate at which my fan speed increases to keep it at a lower temp

22:38 <ergZay> one other question

22:38 <infinisoft> the clock multiplier goes down so overall performance goes down but % CPU stays maxxed

22:38 <ergZay> on the stats websites i see a whole lot more projects listed than are on the official berkely website

22:38 <ergZay> berkeley*

22:39 <PovAddict> ergZay: there are probably a few more that not even the stats websites have listed :)

22:39 <infinisoft> Yeah.  Berkeley only shows certain ones, mostly 'production'

22:39 <ergZay> production?

22:39 <infinisoft> Relatively fewer bugs than other projects, and have been around longer.

22:40 <PovAddict> ergZay: the list on berkeley's site only has non-beta projects where BOINC devs have actually communicated with the project admin, somewhat-confirmed they're legitimate, etc

22:41 <ergZay> ive also been wondering why projects that support windows and linux x86 dont go to the bother of compiling one more binary for Mac OS X x86

22:41 <ergZay> as all it should require is a recompile

22:41 <PovAddict> ergZay: not really... might be harder than that

22:42 <ergZay> how so?

22:42 <PovAddict> maybe they already went through a big effort to port their Windows app to Linux

22:42 <ergZay> ive only had a few computer programming classes and nothing closer to per-system compiling than c++

22:42 <PovAddict> I know LHC@Home can't support OS X because there is no Fortran compiler for Mac good enough for their app (or supporting the non-standard Fortran extensions their app uses)

22:43 <ergZay> yea thats probably the biggest non-mac one im interested in

22:43 <Tank_Master> infosoft is incorrect about the change is speed

22:44 <PovAddict> some projects don't support Mac because none of the developers owns a Mac :)

22:44 <Tank_Master> thermal thotteling downt decrease the speed of the CPU

22:44 <Tank_Master> it adds wate or idle cycles

22:44 <ergZay> do all cpus do that now?

22:44 <Tank_Master> thats how the P4s did it

22:44 <ergZay> i have an intel core 2 duo 2.5ghz

22:45 <ergZay> i mean do all thermal throttle

22:45 <Tank_Master> as far as I know

22:45 <ergZay> PovAddict: lol someone should order and ship them a mac mini

22:45 <PovAddict> ergZay: send me one?

22:45 <ergZay> lol

22:46 <infinisoft> Tank_Master: Thats not what CPU-z says :P

22:47 <ergZay> PovAddict: the other question i had, why are so many of the official listed projects unknown in which systems they support

22:47 <PovAddict> iftop - really useful network tool

22:47 <ergZay> if i remember right those have been like that for a LOOONG time

22:47 <PovAddict> ergZay: in what list?

22:47 <ergZay> http://boinc.berkeley.edu/projects.php

22:47 <Romulus> Title: Choosing BOINC projects (at boinc.berkeley.edu)

22:47 <ergZay> and half of those unknown ones list what platforms they support on their websites pretty much

22:48 <PovAddict> because that page automatically gets the list of platforms from the projects

22:48 <PovAddict> and some are broken :)

22:48 <ergZay> ah

22:48 <PovAddict> http://nqueens.ing.udec.cl/apps.php?xml=1 <- works as expected

22:48 <PovAddict> http://dist.ist.tugraz.at/cape5/apps.php?xml=1 <- returns a webpage instead of XML

22:48 <Romulus> Title: Applications (at dist.ist.tugraz.at)

22:48 <Tank_Master> xml IS a type of webpage

22:49 <ergZay> safari lists out the raw text inside the tags if you load an xml in safari

22:49 <ergZay> its always done that dont know why they dont fix it

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22:51 <Tank_Master> not much support for safari

22:52 <ergZay> everyone says use firefox but firefox has always had horribly unoptimized UI calls mac

22:52 <ergZay> eats cpu like a mad man

22:52 <PovAddict> use Camino

22:52 <ergZay> havent tried that one before

22:52 <Tank_Master> yeah

22:53 <PovAddict> Firefox's HTML engine, native UI for Mac

22:53 <Tank_Master> IE uses far less CPU then FF

22:53 <Tank_Master> but isnt avalbible for other OSs

22:53 <ergZay> Tank_Master: windows IE or mac IE?

22:53 <Tank_Master> win

22:53 <ergZay> ah

22:53 <PovAddict> Mac IE is a dead product

22:53 <Tank_Master> yeah

22:53 <ergZay> wasnt sure

22:53 <ergZay> as i ignore it

22:54 <Tank_Master> dont get why when MS makes so much saftware for the apple OS as it is

22:54 <PovAddict> Tank_Master: to make Mac users pay them :)

22:54 <ergZay> windows media player for mac sucks horrid

22:54 <wdsmia> tells ergZay to suck Obama's.... and to please watch his or her language… Thanks, your friendly channel op.

22:54 <ergZay> lol?

22:54 <Romulus> hmm... lol is it the size of those pills i've been taking for this cold, ergZay

22:54 <PovAddict> ergZay: o_O there is a WMP for Mac?!

22:55 <ergZay> PovAddict: yes, but the dont update it often

22:55 <Tank_Master> ms office for mac is rather good though

22:55 <ergZay> Tank_Master: thats what open office is for

22:55 <ergZay> i dont pay money to m$

22:55 <Tank_Master> from what I hear

22:55 <PovAddict> I know there is a Quicktime plugin to play WMP proprietary formats

22:55 <ergZay> PovAddict: yea flip4mac

22:55 <Tank_Master> openoffice always seems like an unfinished product to me

22:55 <ergZay> but there is also a windows media player

22:55 <PovAddict> dats da wun

22:55 <ergZay> thats existed for much longer

22:56 <PovAddict> Tank_Master: every single piece of software I have used in my life felt like an unfinished product

22:56 <ergZay> m$ has basicaly had flip4mac replace their windows media player though

22:56 <ergZay> as i dont think they ahve updated it since filp4mac came out

22:56 <ergZay> but ffmpeg support is getting much much better

22:56 <Tank_Master> PovAddict - you have been using BOINC for way to long

22:56 <ergZay> so i suggest if you get a plugin to play stuff in quicktime

22:56 <ergZay> get perian

22:56 <ergZay> its a ffmpeg wrapper for quicktime

22:57 <ergZay> very nice

22:57 <Tank_Master> quicktime for windows sucks

22:57 <wdsmia> tells Tank_Master to suck Obama's.... and to please watch his or her language… Thanks, your friendly channel op.

22:57 <PovAddict> ffmpeg rocks

22:57 <ergZay> Tank_Master: so ive heard

22:57 <ergZay> Tank_Master: im speaking in terms of os x

22:57 <Tank_Master> quicktime alternate is better

22:57 <Tank_Master> yeah

22:57 <ergZay> ive heard that contains viruses

22:57 <ergZay> or was that realplayer alternative

22:57 <Tank_Master> not if you get it from repitable sites

22:58 <PovAddict> the worst one was QT 4

22:58 <PovAddict> http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/qtime.htm

22:58 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/5mchfa> (at homepage.mac.com)

22:58 <Tank_Master> I havent had viruses from either

22:58 <Didactylos> The *official* realplayer contains malware.

22:58 <Tank_Master> one would hope that GT for mac is at least as good as wmp for win

22:58 <Didactylos> Or have they been forced to remove it?

22:58 <Tank_Master> lol

22:59 <Tank_Master> its sad when official software contains malwayre

22:59 <PovAddict> Tank_Master: well, it's even more tied to the OS :)

22:59 <Tank_Master> or bundeled crapware

22:59 <PovAddict> I think Quicktime is as tied to OS X as IE is to Windows

22:59 <Tank_Master> ie isnt tied to windows anymmore

22:59 <PovAddict> lies

22:59 <Tank_Master> they seperated it out in IE7

23:00 <ergZay> quicktime isnt that tied

23:01 <ergZay> for browser playing videos and audios file type settings can be reassigned

23:01 <ergZay> and it depends on what you call quicktime

23:01 <PovAddict> and you can change your default browser in Windows

23:01 <ergZay> quicktime is now more of a wrapper for video playing in corevideo

23:01 <zombie67> you can change your default video player in OSX

23:02 <ergZay> and default browser

23:02 <PovAddict> zombie67: yep, same as you can change your default browser in Windows

23:02 <zombie67> yes

23:02 <Didactylos> I think it's a storm in a teacup - always did.

23:02 <PovAddict> that doesn't change the fact that the IE HTML rendering engine is very tied to Windows (no way to totally remove IE and leave a fully working OS)

23:03 <Didactylos> These days, a decent shell needs the ability to render HTML.

23:03 <PovAddict> and the Quicktime audio/video libraries are tied to OS X

23:03 <zombie67> it was a storm that killed Netscape, which no longer matters now that they khave been killed

23:03 <ergZay> netscape had a much bigger better vision for what the internet was to be

23:03 <ergZay> some of which google has begun to bring back

23:04 <Didactylos> Netscape? Doubt that.

23:04 <ergZay> netscape wasnt just a browser, it was a platform which was why microsoft wanted to kill it

23:04 <Didactylos> Tim BL, on the other hand, had a vast vision, very early on.

23:05 <ergZay> im still wondering who m$ bribed in the government to stop them from being broken up in that anti-trust lawsuit

23:05 <ergZay> that they had over netscape

23:05 <Didactylos> Netscape wasn't very good, with hindsight.

23:05 <PovAddict> Netscape wasn't good, technically

23:05 <Didactylos> They started the non-standard HTML features, giveng MS a bad example to follow.

23:05 <Didactylos> Which they did.

23:05 <ergZay> there wasnt standard html features....

23:05 <ergZay> really

23:06 <ergZay> i mean what was before them?

23:06 <ergZay> mosaic?

23:06 <PovAddict> but, as I've read, "it was thanks to them that people started to see URLs in TV and shopping bags"

23:06 <zombie67> netscape beat the snot out of IE.  but like all MS products, by the time they got to version 6 or so...

23:07 <ergZay> netscape was amazing

23:07 <zombie67> mosaic was the only other competition

23:07 <ergZay> they were out to turn the interenet into a complete platform

23:07 <zombie67> Oh, and the java boys had one too

23:07 <ergZay> independent of OS

23:07 <ergZay> that was their goal

23:07 <PovAddict> I was way too young in Netscape days :)

23:07 <PovAddict> I do remember it...

23:07 <Didactylos> MS gets a bad rap. But the truth is, when I've designed a site properly, I have never had any trouble getting it to render identically in all browsers.

23:07 <ergZay> PovAddict: i was too but ive gotten much description of the events from my father

23:07 <ergZay> who was in the heat of it, he got netscape early

23:08 <zombie67> and I think the Apple guys had ....Rover?  Fetch?  some canine-named thing

23:08 <zombie67> the PULSING "N:

23:08 <zombie67> "N"

23:08 <Didactylos> ergZay: I think you have rose-tinted spectacles.

23:09 <ergZay> Didactylos: i think you have 4 colored stain glass tinted spectacles

23:10 <Didactylos> Can you show me some of Netscape's vision, then?

23:10 <PovAddict> cyberdog?

23:10 <PovAddict> zombie67

23:10 <ergZay> Didactylos: how?

23:10 <zombie67> lynxoh, and there was lynx too

23:10 <PovAddict> was? there *is* lynx :)

23:10 <zombie67> CYBERDOG!!

23:10 <Didactylos> ergZay: if it existed, surely there is some trace of it?

23:11 <zombie67> I was a 0.x tester for Netscape

23:11 <zombie67> Then they wanted users to pay for it...

23:11 <PovAddict> lynx/links/links2 are eternal

23:12 <ergZay> so you are looking for what? a write out of the mind of some of the original developers who developed netscape minds'?

23:12 <ergZay> or an article stating it?

23:13 <ergZay> or a to-be-added feature list for netscape

23:13 <ergZay> i dont have any of those offhand but if you give me your email address ill get back to you

23:14 <zombie67> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_web_browsers

23:14 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/eed8b> (at en.wikipedia.org)

23:14 <Didactylos> http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/podcast/dwi/cm-int082206.txt

23:14 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/y6ewzy> (at www-128.ibm.com)

23:14 <ergZay> zombie67: i think it was a misconception that a feature rich internet browser would be free

23:14 <zombie67> exactly

23:14 <Didactylos> The original vision for the web was bigger than it turned out.

23:14 <zombie67> they were considered an app that people would pay for

23:14 <ergZay> internet explorer was free because M$ could afford to take an initial loss to gain complete market control

23:14 <Didactylos> If Netscape had similar ideas, they were late to the party.

23:14 <zombie67> then msft made IE free

23:14 <zombie67> and part of the OS

23:15 <ergZay> thats how anti-trust companies have always always killed smaller companies

23:15 <Didactylos> Not only late, but they failed to deliver.

23:15 <ergZay> sell the same or worse product for free to take an intial loss

23:15 <ergZay> thats old hat

23:15 <Didactylos> Sad, really.

23:16 <ergZay> Didactylos: no one had delivered at that point, people had had great visions for the inernet for heck, centuries

23:16 <PovAddict> centuries? :P

23:16 <ergZay> yes

23:16 <Didactylos> Odd that I should never have heard of them.

23:16 <ergZay> there were a couple people that were called oddballs at time that visioned things like the internet

23:17 <ergZay> heck no one seems to have heard of these

23:17 <ergZay> i keep thinking i should write up a paper and refind all my sources again

23:17 <ergZay> which ive long lost track of

23:18 <ergZay> well anyway nice talking to you guys but my bowels are calling me off to somwhere else atm <_< so i must go

23:18 <zombie67> HotJava!  That was the java browser

23:19 <Tank_Master> java is crap now

23:19 <zombie67> MSFT was late to the internet party.  Win95 was a PITA to get on line

23:20 <Didactylos> Java applets are a dead end.

23:20 <Didactylos> But Java has really taken off on big iron.

23:20 <Didactylos> As a language, it has pros and cons.

23:21 <Didactylos> I love to bitch about it, but it's better than many of the alternatives.

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23:22 <Tank_Master> I have seen some good stuff done with ajax

23:23 <Didactylos> It's useful, no doubt.

23:23 <PovAddict> the word is 'overrated' :)

23:23 <Didactylos> Pity that it has to be JavaScript (which has NOTHING to do with Java, remember)

23:24 <PovAddict> I'd hate to see the day where our desktops are fullscreen web browsers

23:25 <zombie67> +1

23:25 <PovAddict> http://demo.eyeos.org/?lang=en measure how much time this thing takes to "boot", and compare it with your computer's :)

23:25 <Romulus> Title: eyeOS Demo (at demo.eyeos.org)

23:25 <PovAddict> hmm seems to be faster than last time I tried it

23:26 * Didactylos is still waiting for the singularity.

23:26 <PovAddict> but I can't open anything, heh

23:26 <PovAddict> or move the damned windows

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23:26 <Didactylos> I think we have reached the limit of what monkeys and typewriters can do.

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23:27 <Didactylos> Most software is junk. Some decent quality, but vast oceans of junk.

23:28 <Didactylos> And for every good developer, there are 12 bad ones adding to the junkpile and ruining the work done by the 1 in 12 good coder.

23:28 <efc> I recommend despair

23:28 <zombie67> you could BOINC to create more gibberish than all the monkeys in the worls

23:28 <zombie67> world

23:28 <Didactylos> And even the good developers have their off days.

23:28 <PovAddict> brain-off? :)

23:29 <Didactylos> Software needs to evolve into something entirely new. A paradigm shift.

23:29 <PovAddict> buzzword alert...

23:29 * efc hands PovAddict a loaded sledgehammer

23:30 <Didactylos> It's an old word.

23:30 <Didactylos> And I mean it literally.

23:30 <Didactylos> This isn't going to be a small change, or a 5GL language, or anything like that.

23:31 <Didactylos> If I had money to invest, I'd put it in neural interfacing.

23:31 <PovAddict> hmm

23:34 <Didactylos> And I don't know what AI researchers think they're doing - but it seems their AI languages have completely got in the way of them doing anything about actual AI.

23:35 <Didactylos> I think the whole field is dead in the water.

23:36 <Tank_Master> nural links would be cool

23:37 * efc censors his entire next line of thought

23:37 <Didactylos> Heh.

23:38 <ergZay> PovAddict: that eyeos is that just a wrapper for your system stuff?

23:38 <ergZay> as it is using os x scroll bars in displaying webpages

23:38 <Didactylos> Neural links aren't just sci-fi.

23:38 <PovAddict> ergZay: scrollbars are shown native by your browser

23:38 <PovAddict> anywhere any website uses a scrollbar

23:38 <Didactylos> But making it more than a glorified HID will require some serious AI.

23:40 <nickuwo> my linux app is taking 3x longer than the exact same windows code...

23:40 <nickuwo> no optimizations?

23:40 <Didactylos> I hope it happens. Other wild pipe-dreams I have had have come to pass.

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23:41 <efc> I don't know how good you want it to get...

23:42 <ergZay> PovAddict: so if i run a java app inside the java eyeos

23:42 <ergZay> wheres it running?

23:42 <nickuwo> 1x?

23:43 <nickuwo> it's running in a VM, but that shouldn't make a 3x diff

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