IRC logs of #boinc for Wednesday, 2008-10-08

00:09 <nickuwo> zombie67, if you don't mind me asking, how long are the new wu taking you?

00:10 <nickuwo> I mean with your fastest app?

00:13 <MTughan> Wow... Hit 14,000 credits, even.

00:15 <Soul_keeper> amazing

00:15 <Soul_keeper> that's about what the dow hit before it crashed :)

00:16 * efc sells Soul_keeper's body parts to recoup his losses

00:16 <MTughan> rofl... I'm up 6100 credits on the day according to BOINCStats, all from Ramsey. In BOINC combined, that means I'm up 690 positions. In Ramsey, that means I'm up 59. xD

00:17 <Soul_keeper> how much do they give you for a kidney ?

00:17 <Soul_keeper> they grow back right ?

00:17 <Soul_keeper> i heard it was like 900 bucks ...

00:18 <efc> I'm not going to promise a lot for your liver

00:20 <Soul_keeper> it could be damaged ...

00:20 <Soul_keeper> non-mint condition :)

00:21 <efc> Amy Winehouse might trade with you..

00:22 <Soul_keeper> lo

00:22 <Soul_keeper> lol

00:23 <efc>

00:23 <Romulus> <> (at

00:24 <zombie67> back

00:25 <zombie67> nickuwo, you still there?

00:25 <zombie67> you are asking how long your new apps are taking?

00:26 <zombie67> still crunching through 1.14 versions.  Haven't got to the 1.16 stuff yet.

00:40 <nickuwo> so you still have the 1.16 app?

00:40 <nickuwo> or 1.14?

00:42 <zombie67> I am still burning through a backlog of tasks with 1.14.

00:42 <zombie67> will probably take a day or so before I get to the 1.16 stuff

00:43 <zombie67> Oh.  If I reset te project, will I re-download the same tasks, but with the new app?

00:47 <nickuwo> hmm, not sure, I guess I was just wondering how fast crunch3r's app was going :)

00:47 <zombie67> oh!  That

00:47 <zombie67> well, I only had his PPC app.

00:47 <zombie67> I was trying it out

00:48 <zombie67> But I just set all my PPC machines to no new work today

00:48 <MTughan> Official PPC app is compiled by me. Not sure what he used, but I've tried to optimize is as much as possible without any code changes.

00:48 <zombie67> he told me that they won't validate going forward

00:48 <zombie67> MT, this was crunch3r's app, I have been using

00:48 <MTughan> It does use Altivec.

00:49 <zombie67> BUT, i do have cruch times

00:49 <MTughan> I know. But the 1.16 apps in the project are from me.

00:49 <zombie67> cool

00:49 <nickuwo> crunch times from the ppc app?

00:49 <MTughan> Not even sure how he got PPC apps... He must use something other than Intel's compiler, because there's no way that the Intel compiler can make PPC apps.

00:49 <zombie67> crunch3r's apps, do it < 300 sec for G4

00:50 <zombie67> he used GCC...does that sound right?

00:50 <MTughan> Yeah, that's better than me... I'm up around 480 seconds for Intel...

00:50 <nickuwo> hmm, ok... that's about par for 1.14 right?

00:50 <MTughan> GCC? Possible.

00:50 <nickuwo> ok 2/3 still not bad...

00:50 <nickuwo> he's got a fancy intel compiler i know

00:50 <zombie67> that is for a ***G4***

00:51 <MTughan> Although... Current app I'm using doesn't have -ftree-vectorize.

00:51 <MTughan> Let me see if I can switch apps.

00:51 <zombie67> amazing, eh?

00:51 <nickuwo> MT: linux or mac?

00:51 <MTughan> Mac.

00:51 <nickuwo> ahh

00:51 <zombie67> the odd thing is that a G5 is not significantly faster.

00:51 <nickuwo> hmm

00:52 <MTughan> I'll stick in 1.14 just to be consistent. I can always go to 1.16 aftewards.

00:52 <zombie67> nickuwo, we are both talking about PPC/OSX

00:52 <nickuwo> gotchya

00:52 <MTughan> Yeah, not PPC/Linux.

00:52 <zombie67> so crunch3r was not using his fancy intel compilers stuff for that, I assume

00:52 <MTughan> Okay, I'll swap the apps in about 4 minutes.

00:53 <MTughan> Not Intel's compiler, but he may have some other fancy compiler.

00:53 <zombie67> doubt it

00:53 <zombie67> lemme look

00:54 <nickuwo> I think he optimized the source with the compiler, then compiled it on a couple platforms... could be wrong tho

00:54 <zombie67> intel & msft stuff

00:54 <MTughan> For the PPC apps?

00:54 <zombie67> no, that is the stuff he is using

00:54 <zombie67> for the windows apps

00:54 <MTughan> I was wondering for OS X PPC.

00:55 <zombie67> like I said, GCC, I think

00:55 <MTughan> All right... Could be a major speed increase with -ftree-vectorize. The apps you have are compiled with it nickuwo.

00:55 <MTughan> Just the ones I'm currently running does not...

00:55 <MTughan> 2 minutes.

00:55 <zombie67> he does more than just compiler flags, I think

00:56 <MTughan> Probably. I haven't played with the source any.

00:57 <zombie67> again, I could be just passing gas here....I have never done any of this stuff myself.  So this is all second hand

00:57 <MTughan> Understood.

00:58 <zombie67> oh!

00:58 <zombie67> so, there is a functoning PPC stock app again??

00:58 <MTughan> For 1.16, yes.

00:59 <nickuwo> ?

00:59 <nickuwo> thx to MTughan

00:59 <zombie67> nickuwo, when I asked you about it a few days ago, you told me you pulled it, and waiting for help.

01:00 <zombie67> cool.  I'll turn my PPC's back on, w/o the app_info.xml

01:00 <nickuwo> that was true, MT compiled the new one for me - which reminds me, I forgot to give you credit MT, brb

01:00 <MTughan> lol...

01:00 <zombie67> nice!  MT get's credit at another project!!

01:01 <MTughan> Anyway, new app in place, we'll see if I get any speedup...

01:01 <zombie67> mindemodeling, Ramsey, AI(?)...others?

01:01 <MTughan> TSP.

01:01 <zombie67> right!

01:01 <nickuwo> MT, what's your nick on Ramsey?

01:01 <MTughan> jedirock

01:01 <nickuwo> nice

01:01 <MTughan> They do. :P

01:01 <zombie67> strong with this one, the force is

01:02 <MTughan> Or at least with a compiler. xD

01:02 <MTughan> No, but seriously: any project you're looking for me, I'm always jedirock.

01:04 <MTughan> Also, about the credits: 13 hours at E@H gets me about 225 credits. 9 hours on my 2.5GHz Windows machine gets the same credit. And I find that E@H is pretty high.

01:06 <zombie67> it is if you have a modern cpu

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01:06 <nickuwo> ok, I set it to 75 credits per wu and they take me about 3.5 hours...

01:06 <MTughan> Well, so far it's cut about 7 seconds off the estimated time, halfway through the WU. :P

01:06 <nickuwo> maybe a little high still?

01:06 <zombie67> they actually test your cpu, and give you an optimized app if it can use it

01:06 <MTughan> For Ramsey WUs?

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01:06 <nickuwo> yea

01:06 <zombie67> problems d/l ramsey

01:06 <MTughan> If they're three times as long as you said, you're giving the same amount of credits...

01:07 <zombie67> n/m

01:07 <nickuwo> well, the old ones took me about 45 mins

01:07 <zombie67> re-updating fixed it

01:07 <MTughan> &math 3.5 / .75

01:07 <Romulus> MTughan: 4.66666666667

01:07 <MTughan> I think 75 credits is still a little high... Hold on.

01:08 <MTughan> &math (4 + 2/3) * 9

01:08 <Romulus> MTughan: 42

01:08 <MTughan> So 42 minutes about...

01:08 <MTughan> Using E@H's rate at 225/9h.

01:08 <MTughan> &math (225 / 9) * (42 / 60)

01:08 <Romulus> MTughan: 17.5

01:09 <MTughan> 17.5 credits per WU.

01:09 <zombie67> MT, like I said, einstein will give you opt apps if you have a better CPU

01:09 <MTughan> So we say that it takes longer to do the same WU, that just drops the credits/WU even lower.

01:10 <MTughan> Converting to Ramsey, that is.

01:10 <nickuwo> 17.5*3.5 = 61.25, so a bit high still

01:10 <zombie67> rather than comparing to other projects, compare to Ramsey, with previous app

01:10 <MTughan> No, not 17.5 credits per WU, not per hour...

01:10 <MTughan> Damn, that was bad... 17.5 credits/WU, not credits/hr.

01:11 <nickuwo> uhhh...

01:11 <zombie67> agreed

01:11 <zombie67> jibberish

01:12 <nickuwo> r u saying the new 3.5 hour wus should be worth 17.5 credits or r u still talking about E@H?

01:12 <MTughan> SETI grants even less per hour from what I've found.

01:12 <zombie67> even with the opt app?

01:12 <MTughan> The 3.5h WUs should be worth 17.5 credits to match E@H.

01:13 <zombie67> stop comparing to seti

01:13 <MTughan> Hmm, good point... I'm using the stock app.

01:13 <zombie67> compare to the 25 credit WU

01:13 <zombie67> is it more or less?

01:13 <zombie67> per hour, I mean

01:13 <MTughan> With 75 credits per WU at about 4.5 times the length of the previous versions?

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01:13 <nickuwo> I think ur math is off there MT

01:14 <MTughan> &math 25 / (9 / 60)

01:14 <Romulus> MTughan: 166.666666667

01:14 <MTughan> That's how many credits/hr my laptop was getting with previous WUs.

01:14 <MTughan> &math 75 / (42 / 60)

01:14 <Romulus> MTughan: 107.142857143

01:14 <MTughan> With estimates, that's what it'll be getting with the new WUs.

01:14 <zombie67> no way

01:15 <MTughan> 75 credits per WU, using the ratio from Nick's comp, yes.

01:15 <zombie67> my 3ghz Xp machine was taking 1600 seconds

01:15 <nickuwo> 225/9 = 25 credits per hour at E@H so my app should give out 25*3.5 = 87.5

01:15 <zombie67> this is a bit over 50/hr

01:15 <MTughan> Okay, maybe I'm off...

01:15 <MTughan> But I know those last two calculations are right.

01:15 <zombie67> yeah, do over on the math

01:15 <nickuwo> hehe :)

01:16 <MTughan> nickuwo: Remember, the 9 hours is with a stock app on a 2.5GHz C2D.

01:16 <zombie67> my 8-way 2.66ghz (correct this time) machines were doing the 25 credit tasks in 1600 seconds

01:16 <MTughan> &math 1600 / 60

01:16 <Romulus> MTughan: 26.6666666667

01:17 <MTughan> You're kidding...

01:17 <nickuwo> i c

01:17 <MTughan> I've been doing them in 8.5 minutes.

01:17 <nickuwo> yea but those wus were a fluke

01:17 <MTughan> 2.0GHz Core Duo Macbook.

01:18 <MTughan> No, he's saying that his 2.66GHz 8-core Mac Pro did the 25 credit WUs from before in 26-27 minutes average.

01:18 <zombie67> MT, those are the NEW apps, with the old 25 credit

01:18 <MTughan> I'm saying my 2.0GHz Macbook did the same tasks in about 8.5 minutes.

01:18 <zombie67> remember he was giving us a few days???

01:18 <MTughan> Oh, right... Okay, so it increases the time without increasing the credit.

01:18 <MTughan> My machine is estimated to do those WUs in 42 minutes, so that's about right.

01:19 <zombie67> I am talking about the credits we were all running under before nick optimized anything

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01:19 <zombie67> \so compare THAT to the new app, with the longer run time

01:19 <nickuwo> let's base it on the O-riginal WUs, which took me 45 mins on AMD quad 2.8 - 25 credits...

01:19 <zombie67> is THAT more or less?

01:19 <nickuwo> right

01:19 <zombie67> okay, on the same page now

01:20 <zombie67> now do the math again

01:20 <zombie67> brb

01:20 <MTughan> Okay sorry, was looking at stuff... What are we wanting to calculate.

01:21 <nickuwo> 3.5*60/45 = 4.6 * 25 = 115

01:21 <nickuwo> that's same credit per unit time as original wus

01:21 <nickuwo> seems a bit high? or no?

01:21 <MTughan> 115 credits per WU for the new app?

01:22 <nickuwo> yea, 3.5 hours on amd quad 2.8

01:22 <MTughan> Wait, how fast is your machine?

01:22 <nickuwo> ^

01:22 <MTughan> 45 minutes, there's no way the old WUs should've taken that long, compared to what we've gotten...

01:23 <nickuwo> hmm, maybe it was more like 30, but no less

01:23 <zombie67> MT....PAY ATTENTION

01:23 <MTughan> Hey, was looking at grades for a midterm exam in engineering.

01:23 <nickuwo> :p

01:24 <zombie67> we are talking about the original run time...not the BONUS time for the last few days

01:24 <nickuwo> were talking O-riginal wus here, i.e. 3 weeks ago :)

01:24 <MTughan> Which is a little odd, because we're being taught 2D and 3D drawings and programs... And I'm in software engineering.

01:24 <nickuwo> that is odd

01:24 <nickuwo> you sure your in the right class?

01:24 <MTughan> Req'd by the program, yes.

01:24 <nickuwo> hmm

01:25 <MTughan> Anyway, back to the problem at hand...

01:25 <MTughan> So we say 45 minutes to 3.5 hours...

01:25 <zombie67> here's the point:  folks were mostly happy with the credits/hr from ~3 weeks ago

01:25 <MTughan> &math (3.5 * 60 / 45) * 25

01:25 <Romulus> MTughan: 116.666666667

01:27 <MTughan> Rommie?

01:27 <zombie67> so if you have the SAME ratio now, with the opt app, and the longer run time

01:27 <zombie67> then you should be golden

01:27 <nickuwo> alright so maybe 125ish is in order

01:27 <Romulus> Somebody said Rommie is the center of attention, MTughan

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01:28 <MTughan> Now, is it a problem that the Mac apps are optimized?

01:28 <nickuwo> thx guys, that got a little rough at times, but we made it :)

01:29 <MTughan> BTW, -ftree-vectorize trims ~10 seconds off. :P

01:29 <zombie67> all apps are optimized now, right?

01:29 <nickuwo> linux used -ftree as well, so should be similiar

01:29 <nickuwo> ya

01:29 <zombie67> just to differeing degrees

01:29 <nickuwo> right

01:29 <MTughan> But then you've got to take the default optimizations into account at some point.

01:29 <zombie67> rule #1:  all 64 bit apps should use SSE2

01:30 <nickuwo> done

01:30 <MTughan> -msse -msse2 -mfpmath=sse

01:30 <zombie67> Rule #2:  All osx/intel apps should use SSE3

01:30 <nickuwo> well.... actually not sure about linux

01:30 <MTughan> -mss2 -msse3 -mfpmath=sse

01:30 <MTughan> Basically the same... :P

01:30 <MTughan> And -mtune=prescott.

01:31 <nickuwo> i used -o3 and -ftree but no explict sse...

01:31 <zombie67> here we go!

01:31 <MTughan> For x86/Linux?

01:32 <MTughan> Or x86_64/Linux?

01:32 <nickuwo> 64

01:32 <zombie67> MT:  is there a rule #3 for PPC?  Something that should always be done?

01:32 <MTughan> Okay... Yeah, you don't want to use SSE on x86/Linux.

01:32 <MTughan> Altivec and no dynamic PIC for PPC.

01:33 <MTughan> I can provide nickuwo with the proper command line options for GCC on Mac to do all that.

01:33 <zombie67> sweeeeeet

01:34 <nickuwo> ok

01:34 <MTughan> The thing about SSEx is that it mostly works with floating-point, so it won't have as much as an effect on integer based apps such as Ramsey's.

01:35 <zombie67> MT, nick said it sped up his app by ...I don't recall....15%?

01:36 <MTughan> I would expect speedup, but not on as much a scale as an app that was heavy on fp.

01:36 <zombie67> nickuwo?

01:36 <Romulus> I guess nickuwo is haveing problems setting up a BOINC server, can anyone help me, zombie67

01:36 <nickuwo> yea?

01:37 <zombie67> [22:35]  <zombie67> MT, nick said it sped up his app by ...I don't recall....15%?

01:37 <zombie67> speaking about SSE2

01:37 <nickuwo> sse on linux?

01:37 <zombie67> don't recall the OS

01:38 <zombie67> you did a before/after comparison a few days ago for me here

01:38 <nickuwo> interesting... ill find the gcc command next time i compile... it is primarily integer math tho

01:38 <zombie67> but, what was the improvement?

01:39 <zombie67> you did it at my request, but I don't recall the improvement amount

01:39 <nickuwo> hmm... if i recall correctly it was win 64, and it was negligible

01:39 <zombie67> no

01:39 <nickuwo> but it's worth a try

01:40 <zombie67> it was at least 10-15%

01:40 <nickuwo> no?

01:40 <Romulus> hmm... no is I supposed to, nickuwo

01:41 <nickuwo> must be thinking of something else... I'll definitely do it then

01:41 <nickuwo> i should  have figured gcc did sse2

01:41 <MTughan> It does, but not by default.

01:42 <MTughan> Add "-msse2 -mfpmath=sse" to GCC command lines. Those shouldn't be Mac specific.

01:42 <zombie67> Oct 05 21:13:14 <zombie67>nickuwo:  so, is the 64 bit w/ SSE2 faster?

01:42 <zombie67> Oct 05 21:13:35 <nickuwo>oh yea, I forgot to check :)

01:42 <zombie67> Oct 05 21:14:17 <nickuwo>I think so - about 8 mins as opposed to 10ish

01:42 <zombie67> Oct 05 21:14:34 <nickuwo>1/5 not bad

01:43 <MTughan> 20%.

01:43 <zombie67> gotta love the log!

01:45 <nickuwo> oh yea! nice

01:45 <zombie67> to explain a 20% increase with SSE2, when mostly interger?

01:46 <efc> maybe it got the FP ops out of the way (can run them in parallel probably)

01:46 <nickuwo> ooo - when I optimized i took most of the floating point operations out...

01:47 <zombie67> so you optomized after the conversation I posted>

01:47 <zombie67> ?

01:47 <nickuwo> yea, so sse may not do as much... still worth a try

01:47 <zombie67> yeah, worth a similar comparison trial run

01:48 <nickuwo> definitely

01:50 <nickuwo> welp, c u guys 2morrow, thx for the help!

01:51 <MTughan> Same here, almost 2AM.

01:51 <zombie67> gn both of ya!

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02:39 <efc> holy moly...

02:39 <efc> "On 30 September 2008, the total U.S. federal debt passed the $10 trillion mark, for the first time[2], with about $32,895 per capita (that is, per U.S. resident). Of this amount, debt held by the public was roughly $5.3 trillion.[3] Adding unfunded Medicaid, Social Security, Medicare, and similar obligations, this figure rises to a total of $59.1 trillion, or $516,348 per household."

02:40 <efc> the last figure being the whopper

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03:37 <Tank_Master> just get rid of medicare and medicade

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03:53 <efc> yeah, after you finish paying into it..

03:54 <Tank_Master> exactly

03:58 <Tank_Master> im off to bed

03:58 <Tank_Master> gn ye all

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04:55 <CoderForLife> &ping

04:55 <Romulus> pong

04:56 <CoderForLife> &wx 45140

04:56 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Temperature: 60.2F / 15.7C | Humidity: 89% | Pressure: 29.89in / 1012.1hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Light Rain | Wind Direction: SE | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Today - Occasional showers. Highs in the upper 60s. Southwest winds 10 to 15 mph. Chance of rain 100 percent.; Tonight - Mostly cloudy with scattered showers in the evening... then partly cloudy after midnight. Lows in the (1 more message)

04:56 <CoderForLife> &more

04:56 <Romulus> CoderForLife: mid 50s. West winds 5 to 10 mph...becoming northwest after midnight. Chance of rain 40 percent.; Thursday - Mostly sunny. Highs in the mid 70s. Northwest winds around 5 mph.;

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06:34 <hawmps> 'lo

06:36 <CoderForLife> morning

06:36 <CoderForLife> rain this AM

06:36 <CoderForLife> been a LONG time since we had this much

06:37 <CoderForLife> would be nice if I wasn't so worried about the loose dirt on the bare hillsides

06:38 <CoderForLife> anyways - off to the offsite meeting facility for the annual strategic planning meeting

06:38 <CoderForLife> laterz

06:40 <KathrynM> good luck on the meething

06:40 <KathrynM> *meeting

06:41 <CoderForLife> thx KathrynM - I have my 1 hour presentation ready, even if I'm not =)

06:41 <CoderForLife> bye!

06:47 <hawmps> good luck, Don

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12:41 <PovAdct_w> NanoHive officially dead

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12:48 <desti> rip

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16:33 <xcamel> 'lo

16:33 <infinisoft> Hello

16:41 <wdsmia_w> For CoderForLife

16:41 <Romulus> Title: House Slides Down Hill In Oregon - Des Moines News Story - KCCI Des Moines (at

16:45 <xcamel> lol - but not funny

16:45 <Tank_Master> said there was significant damage to the houses involved...

16:45 <Tank_Master> ya think?

16:46 <xcamel> reporters: smart like fencepost.

16:46 <PovAddict> oh that's just in case there are blind users listening to the news, they have to state the obvious

16:46 <PovAddict> ...

16:46 <PovAddict> or something

16:48 <Tank_Master> LOL

16:48 <Tank_Master> "I grabbed (my son) and the computer and ran out"

16:48 <Tank_Master> good to see he got the comp

16:48 <PovAddict> not necessarily in that order huh

16:48 <PovAddict> but hey I'd do the same

16:49 <PovAddict> if not he computer, at least the hard disk

16:49 <PovAddict> the*

16:51 <Tank_Master> yeah

16:51 <Tank_Master> need to save the p0rn

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16:53 <xcamel> or it contained a copy of his homeowners/title insurance...

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17:09 <xcamel> &wx 12074

17:09 <Romulus> xcamel: Temperature: 58.7F / 14.8C | Humidity: 60% | Pressure: 30.04in / 1017.2hPa (Falling) | Conditions: Scattered Clouds | Wind Direction: SSE | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Tonight - Showers likely this evening...then showers after midnight. Lows in the lower 50s. South winds 10 to 15 mph. Chance of rain 80 percent.; Thursday - Mostly cloudy in the morning...then clearing. Highs in the lower (1 more message)

17:09 <xcamel> &more

17:09 <Romulus> xcamel: 70s. Southwest winds 10 to 15 mph.; Thursday Night - Mostly clear. Lows in the mid 40s. Southwest winds 10 to 15 mph...diminishing to around 5 mph after midnight.;

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17:17 <wdsmia> re-hi

17:19 * CoderForLife reads the link from wdsmia

17:19 <CoderForLife> aaaiiiiieeeee!!!!

17:20 <CoderForLife> what a horror story

17:20 <CoderForLife> the stuff of nightmares

17:20 <wdsmia> yep thought of you

17:21 <CoderForLife> yeah, me too

17:32 <CoderForLife>

17:32 <Romulus> <> (at

17:34 <xcamel> 'lo Don

17:34 <CoderForLife> hello Jay

17:35 <xcamel> did you get a chance to hear hannity?

17:35 <CoderForLife> only part during the drive home from the off-site

17:35 <CoderForLife> going to try to watch the interview tonight

17:35 <CoderForLife> wattup?

17:36 <xcamel> Corsi called him - He has the goods on Obama/Odinga

17:36 <xcamel> hard copy, phone records etc.

17:36 <CoderForLife> I missed that

17:36 <CoderForLife> that's who he campaigned for in Kenya?

17:36 <xcamel> Seems Barry O helped plan a 'race war' with his cousin in Kenya.

17:37 <CoderForLife> omg

17:37 <xcamel> even while he was campaigning in NH

17:37 <xcamel> BO's chief-of-staff was the go-between

17:38 <CoderForLife> people are so hypnotized - I wonder if they'll wake up

17:38 <xcamel> summary:;page=101

17:38 <Romulus> <> (at

17:39 * PovAddict can't wait for the electoin

17:39 <PovAddict> election*

17:39 <CoderForLife> Corsi better be careful, but of course he's not dealing with the Clintons

17:40 <xcamel> He's camped out in london atm.

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17:49 <CoderForLife> this is explosive

17:53 <CoderForLife> this is different - someone in Egypt trying my FTP server

17:53 <CoderForLife> plink

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18:10 * kathryn_ yawns

18:11 *** kathryn_ is now known as KathrynM

18:13 <CoderForLife> morning

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18:14 * CoderForLife orders checks after moving some money to another bank

18:15 <KathrynM> a secret offshore account?

18:15 <xcamel> back again..

18:15 <CoderForLife> no, just another small account I kept to be able to get money from the ATM at w@#%

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18:16 <CoderForLife> but I want to  be sure I have access to some money, in case my usual bank closes, notwithstanding FDIC

18:16 <CoderForLife> insurance is one thing, access to cash is another

18:16 <KathrynM> very true

18:17 <CoderForLife> during the S&L crisis, people were blocked from their accounts

18:17 <CoderForLife> I don't want all my assets in one basket

18:18 <CoderForLife> I have a debit card for the second bank; just ordering a small number of checks in case I need to access it in that way

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18:21 <xcamel> always a good idea..

18:21 <KathrynM> morning x

18:21 <CoderForLife> yeah, better safe than sorry

18:22 <CoderForLife> I remember the distress when Home City went under

18:22 <xcamel> 'lo K

18:23 <xcamel> and more than a few others..

18:24 <CoderForLife> yeah - an attorney I had a few years back was a Home City branch manager

18:26 <nickuwo> mmm... fox news

18:26 * nickuwo pukes a little in his mouth

18:28 <xcamel> you kiss your GF with that mouth?

18:29 <CoderForLife> that's pretty graphic/gross nickuwo

18:29 <nickuwo> only after I puke in it :)

18:35 * CoderForLife grimaces

18:35 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o xcamel

18:36 * xcamel winds up...

18:36 <xcamel> ShaWiiiiing!

18:36 *** nickuwo was kicked by xcamel (User terminated!)

18:36 *** xcamel sets mode: -o xcamel

18:36 <xcamel> hehehe...

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18:36 <xcamel> :-)

18:36 <CoderForLife> wb nickuwo

18:37 <nickuwo> hey guys

18:37 <nickuwo> that is some serious debt

18:37 <CoderForLife> yeah

18:37 <CoderForLife> it's a large task to bankroll the world

18:38 <nickuwo> and an interesting story about obamas cousin... not entirely sure what the problem is...

18:38 <MTughan> The one in Africa?

18:38 <CoderForLife> Obama is a Marxist

18:39 <nickuwo> is that guy involved in a rebellion or somthing?

18:39 <xcamel> bigtime - after he lost...

18:39 <CoderForLife> right

18:39 <xcamel> 1600 people dead..

18:39 <MTughan> Don't ask, but that just reminded me I need to do my laundry...

18:39 <nickuwo> well, actually, Marxism makes a lot of sense...

18:39 <CoderForLife> umm

18:40 * xcamel winds up again....

18:40 <CoderForLife> I can see this one comng

18:40 <nickuwo> you've never read communist manifesto?

18:40 <CoderForLife> yes, I have

18:40 <MTughan> Communism has some good points. I studied Marx for philosophy last year.

18:40 <xcamel> I didn't have to after lennin let 10 million people starve to death in western russia

18:41 <MTughan> However, I don't think any of the "communist" nations really followed Marx's definition of communism.

18:41 <nickuwo> MT's got a point

18:41 <xcamel> communism has no good points, and fails no matter how many times it's tried.

18:41 <nickuwo> hmm...

18:41 <nickuwo> ok

18:42 <MTughan> They were supposed to form into a totally classless society after reform by the working class. All communist nations had reform, but the people who took over kept the power for themselves.

18:42 <CoderForLife> OK, this is not helping me advance my capitalist career - I need to focus on some prep for w@#% tomorrow

18:42 <MTughan> lol

18:43 <MTughan> Oh, got my lappy back too... :D

18:43 <xcamel> Our old buddy Che G. was responsible for 16,000 deaths in cuba and central america...

18:43 <CoderForLife> I'll drop off and get some user stories written and estimated for the meeting tomorrow afternoon

18:43 * CoderForLife salutes

18:43 <xcamel> have phun..

18:43 <CoderForLife> thx

18:43 <CoderForLife> gn

18:45 <nickuwo> I'm not sure the relative virtues/vices of governments should be quantified by the number of deaths the leader is responsible for (look at the U.S.)

18:45 * nickuwo gets ready

18:46 * nickuwo ducks...

18:46 <MTughan> ... the hell? How'd Adobe AIR get installed on my comp? I just installed Adobe Reader, Flash player and Shockwave player.

18:46 <nickuwo> it's a package deal baby

18:46 <MTughan> Well, f*ck Adobe then. I don't want the package deal.

18:47 <xcamel> you had a chance before the install to unclick the parts you didn't want..

18:47 <MTughan> AIR wasn't on any of those. I always look through.

18:48 <xcamel> uh-huh

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19:45 <xcamel> dum-de-dum

19:45 <Tank_Master> air gets installed with flash

19:46 <Tank_Master> and your right, you didnt get a chance not to install it

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19:52 <efc> moo

19:52 <Tank_Master> hey

19:57 <xcamel> bbl..

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20:47 <efc> &weather 31088

20:47 <Romulus> efc: Temperature: 70F / 21C | Humidity: 100% | Pressure: 29.93in / 1013hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Overcast | Wind Direction: West | Wind Speed: 5mph / 7km/h ; Tonight - Occasional showers and scattered thunderstorms in the evening...then a chance of showers with isolated thunderstorms after midnight. Some thunderstorms may be severe in the evening. Lows in the mid 60s. Southeast winds 5 to 10 mph (2 more messages)

20:47 <efc> &more

20:47 <Romulus> efc: shifting to the southwest after midnight. Chance of rain 80 percent.; Thursday - Mostly cloudy with a chance of showers and isolated thunderstorms in the morning...then partly sunny with a slight chance of showers and thunderstorms in the afternoon. Highs in the lower 80s. East winds 5 to 10 mph. Chance of rain 40 percent.; Thursday Night - Mostly cloudy. Lows in the lower 60s. Light and (1 more message)

20:47 <efc> tornado warning

20:47 <efc> &more

20:47 <Romulus> efc: variable winds.; Tornado Watch for Houston County in effect until 1:00 AM EDT on October 09, 2008;

20:47 <efc> oh

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21:20 <Tank_Master> &wx 97123

21:20 <Romulus> Tank_Master: Temperature: 54.1F / 12.3C | Humidity: 54% | Pressure: 30.03in / 1016.8hPa (Falling) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: WNW | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Tonight - Partly cloudy. Lows 35 to 45. Northwest wind 5 to 15 mph in the evening becoming light.; Thursday - Rain likely in the morning...then showers likely in the afternoon. Highs 50 to 55. Southwest wind 5 to 10 mph.; (1 more message)

21:20 <Tank_Master> &more

21:20 <Romulus> Tank_Master: Thursday Night - Mostly cloudy with a chance of showers. Lows 35 to 40. West wind 10 mph becoming light after midnight.; Special Weather Statement for Washington County in effect until 4:00 AM PDT on October 09, 2008;

21:20 <wdsmia> &wx 50319

21:20 <Romulus> wdsmia: Temperature: 56.0F / 13.3C | Humidity: 84% | Pressure: 29.91in / 1012.8hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: SW | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Tonight - Mostly clear. Low in the lower 40s. Southwest wind around 10 mph shifting to the northwest after midnight.; Thursday - Sunny. High in the upper 60s. Northeast wind 5 to 10 mph.; Thursday Night - Mostly clear. Low in the (1 more message)

21:20 <wdsmia> &more

21:20 <Romulus> wdsmia: upper 40s. Southeast wind 5 to 10 mph.;

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