IRC logs of #boinc for Saturday, 2008-11-01

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00:30 <Tank_Master> so

00:30 <Tank_Master> did I miss Nickow again?

00:30 <MTughan> Chuck is in #rieselsieve.

00:31 <MTughan> And no, you didn't miss Nick.

00:32 <Tank_Master> oh well

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00:50 <simpson> how to report finished task ?

00:51 <Tank_Master> wait and it will do it eventually

00:52 <simpson> ok thank you Tank lol

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04:12 <CoderForLife> morning any and all

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04:17 <CoderForLife> &wx 45140

04:17 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Temperature: 44.6F / 7.0C | Humidity: 100% | Pressure: 30.28in / 1025.3hPa (Falling) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: SW | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Today - Mostly sunny. Highs around 70. Southwest winds around 5 mph.; Tonight - Partly cloudy. Lows in the mid 40s. Northwest winds around 5 mph...becoming northeast after midnight.; Sunday - Partly sunny. Highs in the upper (1 more message)

04:17 <CoderForLife> &more

04:17 <Romulus> CoderForLife: 60s. South winds 5 to 10 mph.;

04:17 <CoderForLife> going to be a nice weekend

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05:19 <KathrynM> &wx ulsan

05:19 <Romulus> KathrynM: Temperature: 60°F / 16°C | Humidity: 31% | Pressure: 29.99in / 1016hPa | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: SSW | Wind Speed: 6mph / 9km/h | Updated: 6:00 PM KST; Scattered Clouds. High:66 F. / 19 C.; Scattered Clouds. Low:50 F. / 10 C.; Scattered Clouds. High:71 F. / 22 C.; Overcast. Low:50 F. / 10 C.; Overcast. High:68 F. / 20 C.; Clear. Low:44 F. / 7 C.;

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05:50 <MTughan> Is the 64-bit version of Linux really crappy with the benchmarks, or is 64-bit harder on the benchmarks?

05:50 <MTughan> Both the floating point and integer ratings are cut in half from XP 32-bit to 64-bit Linux.

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06:08 <FreeLarry58> morn all

06:08 <FreeLarry58> new printer installing fine on all windows machines with exception of --- you guessed it -- vista machine

06:09 <FreeLarry58> lan based printer

06:11 <FreeLarry58> vista so bad that windows 7 isn't even a consideration currently

06:15 <FreeLarry58> can't even try to uninstall drivers as machine keeps crashing

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06:16 <FreeLarry58> DerMeister you got an elephant gun i can borrow for target practice on my vista machine

06:18 <MTughan> 'lo FL

06:18 <DerMeister> Sorry, no weapons around here :)

06:19 <FreeLarry58> 'llo MTughan

06:19 <FreeLarry58> dang will have to be satisfied by running it over the table saw a few times

06:19 * FreeLarry58 ooohhh wait theres the double bitted axe also

06:20 <MTughan> How about a sledgehammer?

06:20 <FreeLarry58> not enoung splatter when going thru the case - just smashes them

06:21 <FreeLarry58> vista needs a good send off -- two cases of tnt under machine wired to bsd

06:22 <FreeLarry58> doubt there would be a vista machine in operation after one day

06:29 <FreeLarry58> humm what would linux need to operate a lan based laser printer

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06:34 <FreeLarry58> humm first cant seem to get vista to stay running now cant seem to finish shutting down

06:35 <FreeLarry58> well to bed before i get too much more aggravated

06:35 <FreeLarry58> lt it crash while i sleep - have good night and great weekend all

06:57 <FreeLarry58> well two attempts to install the software and two failures for scan driver on printer

07:00 <FreeLarry58> at least the print function works

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08:13 <xcamel> 'lo

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08:30 <xcamel> lol: http://www.simplifiedmodernphysics.blogspot.com/

08:30 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/6f2ck6> (at www.simplifiedmodernphysics.blogspot.com)

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09:12 <CoderForLife> morning - back from the store

09:13 <CoderForLife> are seti downloads broken?

09:13 <xcamel> dunno..

09:14 <CoderForLife> at least 14 downloads in progress with no progress

09:22 <xcamel> hmmm..

09:22 <CoderForLife> Drudge: ZOGBY: MCCAIN MOVES INTO LEAD 48-47 IN ONE DAY POLLING

09:37 <CoderForLife> seem to have lost sound for YouTube videos - I'm going to apply these 'doze updates and reboot

09:39 <CoderForLife> whatis windows

09:39 <CoderForLife> er

09:39 <CoderForLife> &whatis windows

09:39 <Romulus> CoderForLife: "windows" could be http://boinc.berkeley.edu/dl/boinc_6.2.19_windows_intelx86.exe

09:51 <CoderForLife> ok - here goes the reboot

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09:59 <CoderForLife> re-hi

10:01 <CoderForLife> bbl

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11:25 <Tank_Master> ib

11:46 <xcamel> back again

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11:48 <Tank_Master> wb

11:51 <xcamel> picking away at the things that need to be done before saturday

12:01 <Tank_Master> before today?

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13:36 <MTughan> Holy crap... That's why BOINC's crunching so slowly! My 2.53GHz processor is running at 800MHz!

13:38 <Tank_Master> heh

13:38 <Tank_Master> might be a clue

13:39 <MTughan> Well, I was comparing the benchmarks from before and after. In XP, they were 2500fp and ~5000int. In Linux, they were 1500fp and ~2500int.

13:39 <MTughan> That's basically a halving of the benchmarks.

13:39 <Tank_Master> sounds about right

13:40 <MTughan> Now the other thing... I'm not sure if the figure I saw was CPU freq or FSB freq... Both are higher.

13:42 <Tank_Master> could the CPU be throtteling back?

13:42 <MTughan> And I was just comparing an ABC WU to another computer that crunched it, a Q6600. The quad crunched it over twice as fast. That's impossible, even with overclocking.

13:43 <MTughan> Yeah, that's what it is. I just don't know why ATM.

13:43 <Tank_Master> you using a 64bit SO?

13:43 <Tank_Master> OS*

13:43 <Tank_Master> cus perhaps the other guy was

13:44 <MTughan> Yes, Linux x86_64.

13:45 <Tank_Master> ahh, then yeah, the 6600 should be 2x faster

13:45 <Tank_Master> unless they are using faze cooling or something :P

13:45 <Tank_Master> ill brb, gotta restart

13:45 <MTughan> No, it should just crunch 2x the WUs. It shouldn't be 2x faster.

13:45 <MTughan> K.

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13:53 <MTughan> There, now running at full speed.

13:54 <MTughan> 2522fp, 7113int... Damn, that's nice.

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13:58 <Tank_Master> ib

14:03 <MTughan> Got it working.

14:04 <MTughan> Turns out it's a misconfigured speed scaling daemon. I'll see what I can do about it later, but for now I've turned it off.

14:04 <Tank_Master> sweet

14:04 <Tank_Master> good

14:05 <MTughan> Only thing is I've had two ABC WUs fail with computation errors... Not sure why.

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14:05 <MTughan> SIGSEGV.

14:08 <Tank_Master> ABC's app is rather stable

14:09 <MTughan> I've posted to ABC's forums.

14:12 <xcamel> back agin

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14:16 <Tank_Master> wb

14:17 <xcamel> took a short trip down a long ladder earlier...

14:17 <MTughan> Oops.

14:17 <Tank_Master> fun times, no?

14:18 <xcamel> I bounced, gently

14:18 <xcamel> still have all my parts..

14:18 <MTughan> That's good.

14:19 <xcamel> gotta love genetic engineering... (different topic)

14:19 <xcamel> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1082290/Pictured-Worlds-truly-blue-roses-display-Japan.html

14:19 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/6xfel5> (at www.dailymail.co.uk)

14:20 <Tank_Master> thats not blue

14:20 <Tank_Master> thats lavender

14:22 <xcamel> one gene from a petunia

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14:41 <efc> moo

14:41 <Tank_Master> yo

14:41 <Tank_Master> yoyoyo

14:55 * efc shoulda got a 16 port switch

14:56 * efc shoulda got that stack of 10 24 port hubs!

14:59 <Tank_Master> heh

15:00 <Tank_Master> to bad I got rid of 3 24 port hubs, eh?

15:03 <efc> Oh the pain!

15:04 <efc> Ethernet probably isn't the most economical way for mass low speed connectivity anyway

15:04 <efc> USB cheaper to build

15:05 <Tank_Master> I wouldnt think so, but I dunno how much a large USB hub costs

15:07 <efc> i mean on the device side

15:07 <Tank_Master> ahh

15:07 <efc> ethernet devices aren't completely brain dead

15:07 <efc> on the other hand USB drivers are harder to write

15:07 <efc> but the USB hardware is pretty close to brain dead

15:07 <Tank_Master> you can get a layer3 switch

15:07 <Tank_Master> but those are spendy

15:08 <efc> What do those do for you?

15:09 <efc> I'm sort of ignorant on networking outside of fairly small LAN

15:09 <Tank_Master> more intelegent routing

15:09 <Tank_Master> better packet filtering (of bad or misshaped packets)

15:09 <efc> I assume at some point you hit a limitation on the number of switches that can be chained together simply

15:09 <Tank_Master> no

15:10 <Tank_Master> its just a bandwith limitation

15:10 <Tank_Master> not a numbers limitation

15:11 <efc> There's a limit on number of hubs that can be chained due to propagation time, but not on switches? Cuz they do store & forward?

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15:11 <Tank_Master> theres 3 ways to route

15:12 <Tank_Master> storn forward is the lowest, but cateches the most bad packets

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15:12 <Tank_Master> cus it looks at the entier packet

15:12 <Tank_Master> but the quickets jsut looks at the header and send it along

15:12 <efc> Right, and that would also solve the propagation time problem

15:13 <Tank_Master> even before the entire packet has arrived

15:13 <Tank_Master> but it also sends along bad packets

15:14 <efc> ah "Cut through"

15:15 <Tank_Master> something like that

15:15 <Tank_Master> theres a 3rd, but I forget how it works

15:16 <efc> It seems like the the to send a packet cannot exceed the worst case propagation time through the collision domain, otherwise, you can't detect a collision before the packet is out the door

15:16 <Tank_Master> switches dont have collisions

15:16 <efc> Thats the reason for the limitation on chained hubs

15:17 <Tank_Master> yeah

15:17 <Tank_Master> hubs arent intelegent at all

15:19 <efc> so modern ethernet is basically collision-less..

15:19 <efc> Which kinda makes it not much like ethernet

15:21 <Tank_Master> hubs send the same info down every channel

15:22 <Tank_Master> thats why they hav colissions

15:22 <Tank_Master> switches know which channels to send the packets down and dont send it down all ports/channels

15:23 <efc> Yeah, so if everybody uses switches everywhere, then basically no collisions anymore? Assuming everybody can do full duplex without causing collisions

15:23 <Tank_Master> yeah

15:23 <PovAddict> I don't even know what you mean with "collisions"

15:23 <Tank_Master> even half duplex

15:23 <Tank_Master> PovAddict - happens when 2 comps talk at once

15:23 <Tank_Master> the eletrical signel gets canceled out

15:24 <Tank_Master> and none of the devices are able to read it

15:24 <DerMeister> The same problem exists for wireless lan.

15:24 <Tank_Master> yeah

15:24 <Tank_Master> true

15:24 <DerMeister> But it's more complicated there

15:24 <efc> Pov: Old school ethernet, each interface has a collision detector, if it detects a collision, it shuts up and waits a pseudorandom amount of time before sending again

15:25 * PovAddict installs SP3 on his other machine

15:25 <PovAddict> I noticed it was running BOINC 5.10.20

15:25 <DerMeister> Just google for CSMACD. There should be plenty of explanations for it around

15:25 <Tank_Master> or wiki

15:26 <efc> I was just wondering, if there's no more collisions since everybody is on switches, then the hardware can be a lot dumber

15:27 <Tank_Master> no, theres no collisions because the devices are smarter

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15:27 <Tank_Master> they know where to send the packets instead of blidly sending it out every port

15:27 <MTughan> The switches. I think he means all the other hardware doesn't have to be.

15:27 <MTughan> Like the end devices.

15:27 <Tank_Master> ahh, well they still do

15:27 <Tank_Master> cus of backwards compatibility

15:28 <Tank_Master> theres no way afaik to know if its pluged into a switch or a hub

15:30 <KathrynM> PovAddict, ping

15:30 <PovAddict> pong

15:30 <KathrynM> http://boinc.berkeley.edu/dev/forum_thread.php?id=3268

15:30 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/5pj3x9> (at boinc.berkeley.edu)

15:30 <KathrynM> can you answer that?

15:31 <Tank_Master> KathrynM!

15:31 <KathrynM> or at least translate :)

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15:31 <PovAddict> looks like the good old problem of missing the MSI of the currently-installed version

15:31 <KathrynM> fun

15:32 <Tank_Master> yeah

15:32 <Tank_Master> pov's right

15:33 <Tank_Master> the msi file is missing in the uninstall folder

15:33 <Tank_Master> so he cant uninstall the old version

15:33 <KathrynM> at 4 am, my eyes just glazed over trying to pull HS SPanish out of my brain

15:33 <PovAddict> so what's the solution? reinstall from the old version's exe frst?

15:34 <Tank_Master> I usualy hack the registry

15:34 <PovAddict> yeah right

15:34 <PovAddict> let's tell the noob to hack his registry

15:34 <MTughan> That darn registry...

15:34 <KathrynM> the msi clean up utility

15:34 <MTughan> rofl

15:34 <PovAddict> that will go sooo well

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15:34 <Tank_Master> delete it out of the uninstall folder, so windows doesnt think its been installed

15:34 <Tank_Master> abd BOINC will install ontop just fine

15:35 <Tank_Master> but I gotget now where its located in there

15:35 <KathrynM> http://boincfaq.mundayweb.com/index.php?language=1&view=119

15:35 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/5dko2t> (at boincfaq.mundayweb.com)

15:35 <Tank_Master> I havent needed to do it in so long

15:35 <PovAddict> if you make BOINC 6.x think 5.x has never been installed before, maybe it don't do migration... so I don't think that's a good idea

15:35 <MTughan> Tank_Master: You seriously need to learn touch typing or need a new keyboard. :P

15:35 <Tank_Master> heh

15:36 <Tank_Master> or to look at the screen when typing instead of the keyboard

15:36 <Tank_Master> they didnt teach us that in skool

15:36 <MTughan> That's touch typing.

15:36 <Tank_Master> ahh

15:36 <MTughan> They sort of taught me that in school, but I didn't learn it until I started programming.

15:36 <Tank_Master> never heard it referd that way

15:37 <PovAddict> can't be bothered to explain to him how to solve a problem *I* never had before

15:37 <PovAddict> I posted a link to the FAQ

15:38 <MTughan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch_typing

15:38 <Romulus> Title: Touch typing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org)

15:38 <KathrynM> thanks pov

15:39 <KathrynM> and back to bed for me

15:39 <efc> I failed at that but I have succeeded at Touch-Clicking

15:39 <efc> I hardly ever have to look at the mouse

15:39 <MTughan> lol

15:39 <PovAddict> BOINC FAQ should be a wiki...

15:39 <PovAddict> mice need more buttons

15:39 <MTughan> I have 5 or 6 buttons on this mouse.

15:40 <efc> Did you see the Pirate keyboard?

15:40 <MTughan> No.

15:40 <PovAddict> technically I have 7 buttons on mine... at least that's how X sees it

15:40 <PovAddict> left click, right click, middle click (pressing mouse wheel); that's three

15:41 <MTughan> I also have forward and back buttons on the side of the mouse.

15:41 <PovAddict> as far as X is concerned, the scroll wheel is a pair of buttons (up and down); that's two more

15:41 <MTughan> Oh... That makes my mouse at least a 9 button mouse then.

15:41 <MTughan> Maybe I should look into that.

15:41 <PovAddict> then, my scroll wheel can also be tilted horizontally (which are physically buttons), usually used for horizontal scrolling but I configured it to change between desktops :)

15:42 <MTughan> Horiz scrolling here too. I also have res changers which I believe are passed to the system, but they're also handled on the mouse.

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15:47 <efc> http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c340/davemarkowitz/pirates/pirate_keyboard.jpg

15:47 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/yvrvx2> (at i30.photobucket.com)

15:48 <MTughan> Ah yeah... Forgot about that one. :P

15:52 <xcamel> hoo-haa

15:52 <Tank_Master> hi achmead

15:53 <Tank_Master> you still arent a terrifing terrorest

15:53 <Tank_Master> ;)

15:55 <MTughan> On the economy: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/

15:55 <Romulus> Title: UserFriendly Strip Comments (at ars.userfriendly.org)

15:58 <Tank_Master> &xkcd

15:58 <Romulus> http://www.xkcd.com/

16:02 <Tank_Master> &cad

16:02 <Romulus> http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php

16:04 <xcamel> turned out to be a pretty nice day..

16:08 <CoderForLife> re-hi

16:09 <CoderForLife> half of the weekend to-dos are done

16:09 <Tank_Master> congratz

16:11 <CoderForLife> thx

16:12 <CoderForLife> looking forward to some din-din

16:12 <Tank_Master> hehe

16:19 <CoderForLife> oh my  http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/31/joe.html?sid=101

16:19 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/5qzthu> (at www.columbusdispatch.com)

16:24 <Tank_Master> fun times these political traditions are

16:24 <PovAddict> or not

16:25 <Tank_Master> more not

16:25 <CoderForLife> more or

16:26 <Tank_Master> more or not

16:26 <PovAddict> not

16:26 <Tank_Master> or

16:29 <Tank_Master> I cant believe theres alreadt 39 updates to XP sp3

16:30 <Tank_Master> I dont think theres been that meny total for server 2008

16:32 <PovAddict> new printers seem to be optimized for high ink waste

16:33 <PovAddict> which means you have to buy ink more frequently, which is the real business of printer makers

16:33 <CoderForLife> hmm

16:34 <PovAddict> the printers are given away... the real money is on the ink

16:34 <CoderForLife> I try to file a DoNotCall complaint regarding a call to my cell phone, and they say my number is not registered -  I *know* I registered it

16:34 <PovAddict> (like with cellphones... they give them away as long as you pay a small fortune a month for the service)

16:36 <CoderForLife> must.. go.. eat.. something..

16:36 <CoderForLife> bbl

16:36 <PovAddict> this new printer also has a scanner

16:36 <Tank_Master> same with consol games

16:36 <Tank_Master> they sell the consols at a lost and make up for it with the games

16:36 <PovAddict> Tank_Master: yeah

16:37 <PovAddict> but the problem here is printers seem intentionally wasting ink..

16:37 <PovAddict> this new printer is one of those "3-in-1" that are really 2-in-1 (the "copy" feature is the "scan" feature followed by the "print" feature, DUH)

16:38 <PovAddict> its scanner sucks

16:38 <Tank_Master> lol

16:38 <PovAddict> scan is bad quality, and the user interface to do scans is *really* bad quality

16:38 <PovAddict> my old Canon scanner kicks its ass any day

16:40 <Tank_Master> not supprising

16:41 <PovAddict> its OOBE was crap as well

16:43 <Tank_Master> usually is

16:44 <PovAddict> took my dad a while to notice there was a *transparent* tape not letting the printer head move

16:44 <PovAddict> they could have used the same bright yellow tape that is on the ink cartridges...

16:47 <PovAddict> took me a while to figure out how to load paper!

16:48 <Tank_Master> lol

16:48 <PovAddict> the plastic thing that holds paper on the side was right in the middle, so I didn't notice what it really was

16:48 <PovAddict> of course then it was a pain to move it to the left edge too

16:49 <Tank_Master> corse

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16:58 <Rookie_69> Dishes, laundry, cooking... When I win the lottery, I think I'll buy a wife... or maybe just a maid.That sounds cheaper.

16:58 <Soul_keeper> :)

17:01 <Rookie_69> I had to wash a bunch of dishes just to make enough room in the sink to wash the pot I wanted to cook dinner in.

17:01 <Rookie_69> ... and if I want to wear socks tomorrow, laundry needs laundering.

17:02 <efc> Maids are more fun

17:02 <Rookie_69> Oh... and it feels like a mule kicked me in the chest...

17:03 <Rookie_69> Other than that, life's great.

17:03 <Rookie_69> Especially one in a french maid costume.

17:04 <Soul_keeper> my favorite mouse broke

17:05 <Soul_keeper> razer copperhead

17:05 <Rookie_69> My favorite me is broke too.

17:05 <Rookie_69> ... but my auto insurance is finally paid.

17:06 <PovAddict> <dsully> please describe web 2.0 to me in 2 sentences or less.

17:06 <PovAddict> <jwb> you make all the content. they keep all the revenue.

17:06 <Tank_Master> lol

17:06 <Soul_keeper> http://www.amazon.com/Razer-Lachesis-Laser-Gaming-Mous-Banshee/dp/B000WU35JQ   i gotta save up for that now

17:06 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/6m2s7s> (at www.amazon.com)

17:09 <Rookie_69> The comps at work still use male mice... they have balls under them. What a pain.

17:10 <Soul_keeper> yeah i don't need 9 buttons, heck all i really need is a fully functional wheel and the 2 standard buttons, but ohh well

17:10 <Tank_Master> they have mroe than one ball?

17:11 <PovAddict> stereo

17:11 <Rookie_69> Monogonadic...

17:12 <MTughan> Soul_keeper: Why do you need a Razer mouse?

17:12 <Soul_keeper> i just want the latest and greatest

17:12 <Rookie_69> Cool blue instead of hot red.

17:13 <Soul_keeper> i've got a G7 logitech but i don't too much like the cordless

17:13 <Soul_keeper> i broke the G7 too

17:13 <Tank_Master> howd you break it?

17:13 <Soul_keeper> but i fixed it, had to solder a new button sensor on the pcb

17:13 <Rookie_69> I usually prefer the latest and greatest $9 one.

17:13 <MTughan> The G5 is similar and corded if you were looking for something like that, but the Razer's are higher end, yeah.

17:13 <Soul_keeper> i wear them out

17:13 <Soul_keeper> i click too much i guess

17:14 <Soul_keeper> i got used to the razer copperhead, was a nice mouse

17:14 <MTughan> I used a Logitech MX700 for 4 years, only problems I ever had with it was that the power connections seem to be slightly maligned.

17:14 <Soul_keeper> didn't like it when i first got it because of the weird shape, but after awhile all other mice seem weird

17:15 <Soul_keeper> http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/mice_pointers/mice/devices/3053&cl=us,en    that mouse just looks stupid

17:15 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/24pouh> (at www.logitech.com)

17:16 <Rookie_69> Most of those weird shaped ones are built for right-handed people though.

17:16 <MTughan> Yeah, I wouldn't go for the G9.

17:17 <Soul_keeper> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826153017    i'm going to get this when i get the chance

17:17 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/5hr6xd> (at www.newegg.com)

17:17 <Soul_keeper> blue lights match my case and keyboard :)

17:18 <MTughan> I have a set of Razer Piranha's here. Best set of headphones I've owned.

17:19 <Tank_Master> I use sennheiser HD555 headphones

17:20 <Rookie_69> ... I have a razor in the bathroom that I don't use often enough, but that's about it.

17:21 *** Eythan has quit IRC

17:21 <Soul_keeper> :)

17:22 <Tank_Master> heh

17:22 <Soul_keeper> they have "how it's made: razors" on the science channel right now  lol

17:22 <Tank_Master> LOL

17:23 <Soul_keeper> the glider pads wore off the bottom of my G7

17:23 <Soul_keeper> just plastic now

17:24 <Soul_keeper> ttyl

17:24 <Rookie_69> That'll teach you to use a sandpaper mousepad.

17:24 <Tank_Master> c-ya saenger

17:25 <Tank_Master> c-ya Soul_keeper

17:25 <Tank_Master> lol

17:25 <Tank_Master> sorry saenger

17:27 <xcamel> Sennheiser, then bose

17:28 <Tank_Master> bose?

17:28 <Romulus> Somebody said bose is typically underpowered and over priced, Tank_Master

17:28 <Tank_Master> that would be me, Romulus

17:28 <Tank_Master> bose - boy our shyts expensive

17:28 <Tank_Master> :P

17:30 <PovAddict> http://millionnumbers.com/ what the...

17:30 <Romulus> Title: MillionNumbers.com - We're Giving Away One Million Numbers! (at millionnumbers.com)

17:31 <Tank_Master> LOL

17:32 <Tank_Master> sad, real sad

17:32 <PovAddict> the sad thing is the people *selling* them

17:32 <Tank_Master> no

17:32 <PovAddict> see the links in the first sentence

17:32 <PovAddict> "You've probably seen other's trying to sell you numbers at premium rates."

17:33 <Tank_Master> its that people are *buing( them

17:33 <Tank_Master> *

17:33 <PovAddict> heh someone's "owner's statement" for number 141664

17:33 <PovAddict> "4^0, 4^1, 4^2, 4^3"

17:34 <Rookie_69> I hope they're not trying to sell my #69...

17:34 <Tank_Master> #69 is the most popular number sold

17:34 <PovAddict> &echo [math calc 4**0] [math calc 4**1] [math calc 4**2] [math calc 4**3]

17:34 <Romulus> 1 4 16 64

17:34 <Tank_Master> supprised its not 666

17:34 <PovAddict> 666 is owned by "Diablo"

17:35 <PovAddict> URL www.whitehouse.gov

17:35 <PovAddict> o_O

17:35 <Tank_Master> lol

17:40 <saenger> whitehouse.org would be better methinks ;)

17:41 <Tank_Master> hi saenger

17:41 <saenger> just "purchased" the postal code of my home village

17:41 <Tank_Master> lol

17:41 <PovAddict> LOL saenger

17:41 <saenger> http://millionnumbers.com/number/31079/

17:41 <Romulus> Title: #31079, owned by Wrisbergholzen - MillionNumbers.com (at millionnumbers.com)

17:49 <CoderForLife> back post-dinner

17:50 <Rookie_69> Hi, Don.

17:51 <CoderForLife> hello Glenn

17:51 * Rookie_69 wonders when he put the dead pig in the oven.

17:51 <Tank_Master> after you kill it

17:52 * Rookie_69 wonders how long his dead pig has been in the oven...

17:52 <Tank_Master> heh

17:53 <Tank_Master> thats the real q, eh?

17:53 * Rookie_69 is getting a bit peckish.

17:54 <Rookie_69> As long as the spuds aren't too crunchy, I'm ok with whatever comes out.

17:55 <Rookie_69> ... I have to be.

18:00 <Rookie_69> I'm ready for bed... I wish my stuff was.

18:07 <CoderForLife> we're going to have a fire tonight in the chiminea, and sit out on the deck - we haven't done that this year yet

18:08 <Rookie_69> Am I invited?.. It's only a twenty hour drive or so...

18:09 <Rookie_69> Oh yeah... There's a border crossing involved.

18:11 <Rookie_69> Six months of paperwork before I even dare come close to the border these days.

18:14 <xcamel> still considered AWOL from the military?

18:16 <Rookie_69> That was my brother... I'm just a Dangerous Criminal.

18:16 <Rookie_69> Hi, Jay.

18:16 <Rookie_69> I was AWOP... Absent Without Pay.

18:18 <Rookie_69> I quit after too many months of my money going... away.

18:22 <Rookie_69> After 14 years, that's still a sore spot.

18:22 * Rookie_69 broods.

18:23 <Rookie_69> Hmm... In two years, I'll have been out as long as I was in...

18:24 <CoderForLife> sure Rookie_69, I'll throw an extra twig on for you

18:25 * CoderForLife looks outside

18:25 <CoderForLife> I have plenty of spare twigs here

18:28 <CoderForLife> I'm going to mosey downstairs, and arrange the deck chairs on the Coder Titanic

18:28 <CoderForLife> gn folks

18:29 <Tank_Master> gn cfl

18:29 <Rookie_69> NN.

18:29 *** yoyo[RKN] has quit IRC

18:32 <Rookie_69> Going to go check laundry again...

18:33 <Tank_Master> hf

18:45 <Rookie_69> Laundry is done therefore pig is done... is that good logic?

18:48 <efc> ran my 3.7 miles

18:48 <Rookie_69> Seems to be so.

18:49 * efc wouldn't mind a whole-pig BBQ tonight

18:49 * Rookie_69 notes that it must be 3.7 miles from police station to Eddie's house.

18:50 * efc cruises the neighborhood slowly in the nondescript white van

18:52 <Rookie_69> Apparently, that's six clicks.

18:52 <xcamel> whole pig?

18:52 <Rookie_69> Just a leg or whatever.

18:52 <efc> There'd be some left for the freezer

18:53 * Tank_Master passes the testicals to Rookie_69

18:53 <efc> Can't get enough of those salty b... nevermind

18:53 <Tank_Master> lol

18:53 * Rookie_69 passes them back.

18:54 <Tank_Master> you took them, no returns

18:55 * Rookie_69 remembers his roommate ordering Prairie Oysters at a restaurant in Alberta many moons ago...

18:59 <Rookie_69> ... it was a Chinese restaurant...

19:01 *** DerMeister has quit IRC

19:05 *** [RKN]frost has quit IRC

19:05 <Rookie_69> Dinner is done... Laundry is done... Dishes are partly done... (dishes will dry overnight ((especially the dirty ones))). I'm done.

19:06 <Rookie_69> NN.

19:06 <Tank_Master> gn

19:06 *** Rookie_69 has quit IRC

19:06 * xcamel yawns

19:07 <Tank_Master> hey

19:29 <xcamel> Zogby Shocker: McCain Leads Obama In Latest Poll

19:29 <xcamel> http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/Zogby_latest_McCain_leads/2008/11/01/146659.html

19:29 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/6h557l> (at www.newsmax.com)

19:34 *** infinisoft has joined #boinc

19:39 <Tank_Master> zogby?

19:40 <Tank_Master> who the heck is zogby?

19:46 <xcamel> john zogby "respected pollster"

19:46 <xcamel> the IBD/TIPP poll tends to be more accurate

19:51 <xcamel> that has them dead even

19:51 *** saenger has quit IRC

19:53 <Tank_Master> huh

19:56 *** Tank_Master_ has joined #boinc

19:57 *** Tank_Master has quit IRC

19:58 *** Tank_Master_ is now known as Tank_Master

20:04 <MTughan> Wow... Can a host have a CPID split?

20:06 <Tank_Master> probably

20:07 <MTughan> http://boincstats.com/stats/boinc_host_graph.php?pr=bo&id=3426336

20:07 <MTughan> http://boincstats.com/stats/boinc_host_graph.php?pr=bo&id=4616461

20:07 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/5a6psj> (at boincstats.com)

20:07 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/6jlb3y> (at boincstats.com)

20:07 <MTughan> I think it just happened with yoyo.

20:09 *** PovAddict has quit IRC

20:40 *** quail has joined #boinc

20:41 *** quail_li1ux has quit IRC

20:46 <xcamel> 'lo Q

20:48 *** BadBarbarian has joined #boinc

21:29 *** BadBarbarian has quit IRC

21:41 *** siofwolves has quit IRC

22:02 *** zombie67 has joined #boinc

22:27 *** desti_T2 has joined #boinc

22:28 *** desti has quit IRC

22:31 * Soul_keeper remembers what money looks like

22:31 <MTughan> http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20081101

22:31 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/5fbe2e> (at ars.userfriendly.org)

22:33 *** PovAddict has joined #boinc

22:34 <Soul_keeper> ha

22:34 <PovAddict> MTughan: http://boincstats.com/charts/chart_uk_bo_compare_credits_teams_40;86911.gif

22:34 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/6kybqt> (at boincstats.com)

22:34 <Tank_Master> wb PA

22:35 <MTughan> Thanks. See, we're catching you.

22:36 <PovAddict> >.<

22:36 <PovAddict> not by too much though

22:36 <MTughan> It's going to be about a month or so.

22:37 <PovAddict> I mean not too much difference in speed

22:37 <PovAddict> wouldn't take too many extra computers to avoid you :)

22:38 <PovAddict> our cr/day:  223,469

22:38 <PovAddict> your cr/day:  273,248

22:38 <PovAddict> it's not like we need twice our current power

22:38 <MTughan> That's just over the last day. cr/month is more accurate.

22:38 <wdsmia> 1420 members compared to 308 you should be catching us

22:39 <MTughan> Means we make about a million more credits every ten days.

22:40 <PovAddict> Pirates@Home once experimented with making teams compete based on the *average* RAC of their users

22:40 <PovAddict> members, that is

22:40 <MTughan> This isn't related to TFFE/UF.org, but I'm just about matching your credit rate now: http://boincstats.com/charts/chart_uk_bo_compare_credits_users_76151;991407.gif

22:40 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/69rdm8> (at boincstats.com)

22:40 <zombie67> ouch!  http://boincstats.com/charts/chart_uk_szdg_project_active_users.gif

22:40 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/6fkxc8> (at boincstats.com)

22:40 <PovAddict> the idea was flawed

22:40 <MTughan> And I'll be moving my credit OS over to 64-bit in a couple days. :D

22:41 <Tank_Master> 64bit will help

22:41 <MTughan> zombie67: Why such the big drop? You know?

22:41 <PovAddict> if you look at the average of their members, team founders would kick off the members with slower/less computers to get a higher average!

22:41 <zombie67> their task run time jumped from a couple of hours to several days long

22:41 <MTughan> Tank_Master: Exactly. With two 32-bit OSes ATM, I'm just about matching him. With a 64-bit replacing one of the 32-bits, it means more credits in theory.

22:41 <PovAddict> zombie67: I thought they had just stopped giving work (which would surely make the "users with credit granted" fall down)

22:41 <zombie67> and they didn't up their est. run time.

22:42 <zombie67> nope

22:42 <zombie67> still plenty of work

22:42 <MTughan> Ouch... Bad move, or just didn't see it coming?

22:42 <zombie67> but their server is so old, it won't issue work to win64, or osx64

22:42 <Tank_Master> who wont?

22:42 <PovAddict> http://boincstats.com/charts/chart_uk_bo_compare_credits_teams_40;712;86911.gif

22:42 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/5wj55r> (at boincstats.com)

22:42 <zombie67> poor and unresponsive admins

22:42 <PovAddict> we're both doomed :)

22:43 <MTughan> PovAddict: Yeah, well it happens.

22:43 * PovAddict adds zombie67's team

22:44 <PovAddict> http://boincstats.com/charts/chart_uk_bo_compare_credits_teams_40;712;86911;15755.gif

22:44 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/6234c2> (at boincstats.com)

22:44 <PovAddict> we're tiny ants

22:44 <zombie67> hah!

22:44 <zombie67> can you compare your teams to just me?

22:44 <PovAddict> no, can't compare teams and members

22:45 <zombie67> ;)

22:45 <PovAddict> however you have less than 94 million :)

22:45 <PovAddict> eh, but still too much for comfort >.<

22:45 <MTughan> And I've been thinking about getting a PS3...

22:45 <PovAddict> 23 million? insane

22:45 <PovAddict> MTughan: you just want to beat me baaadly

22:46 <MTughan> No, I was more credits. They average 4000RAC.

22:46 <MTughan> want*

22:46 <PovAddict> if only RF was still up... I could easily cheat >:)

22:46 <MTughan> And endure DA's wrath?

22:47 <zombie67> MT, better credit with a CUDA GPU

22:47 <zombie67> I get 12k/day

22:47 <zombie67> cheaper too

22:47 <MTughan> And I don't have a CUDA GPU or a machine to take one.

22:48 <zombie67> what is the cost of 3x PS3s?

22:48 <MTughan> I can match that with 3 PS3's, which cost $1200. Less than a computer.

22:48 <zombie67> you could buy a quad cruncher and GPU for less

22:48 <zombie67> and get the 12k/day for GPU + 3-4 CPUs

22:48 <MTughan> What GPU? Anything worthwhile on CUDA?

22:48 <zombie67> GTX

22:48 <zombie67> 260 or 280

22:49 <zombie67> TM?

22:49 <Romulus> Rumor has it TM is selling a bunch, zombie67

22:49 <MTughan> GTX260 is still ~$400 if I'm not mistaken.

22:49 <zombie67> no

22:49 <zombie67> I bought a OC'd 280 for....lemme look

22:50 <MTughan> $480 for a GTX280.

22:50 <zombie67> $440 for an OC 280

22:50 <MTughan> $300 for a GTX260.

22:50 <PovAddict> if I cared about credits... I have a GPU I could add

22:51 <MTughan> Also... Are you factoring PSU, case, CPU, RAM, and anything else into the cost equation?

22:51 <zombie67> huh, up in price since then.  Now 460:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143144&nm_mc=TEMC-RMA-Approvel&cm_mmc=TEMC-RMA-Approvel-_-Content-_-text-_-N82E16814143144

22:51 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/5fyrjq> (at www.newegg.com)

22:51 <MTughan> I had priced out a machine before. Let me pull up the specs...

22:51 <zombie67> and the 260, does just about as good at GPUGRID

22:51 <PovAddict> but we care about sane code... and the GPU scheduler isn't, so synecdoche doesn't support CUDA

22:51 <zombie67> tank_master

22:52 <Tank_Master> ?

22:52 <zombie67> what is the cost of a quad cruncher?

22:52 <Tank_Master> compleat system?

22:52 <zombie67> less the GPU

22:52 <Soul_keeper> should be able to do it under 500 i'd assume

22:52 <Tank_Master> barebones?

22:52 <PovAddict> if I cared about credits... I'd "infect" more work machines

22:53 <Tank_Master> or with vid card?

22:53 <zombie67> without the vid

22:53 <Tank_Master> for qpugrid

22:53 <Tank_Master> ok

22:53 <zombie67> yes

22:53 <MTughan> 750W PSU, C2Q Q660, 4GB of PC2-8500 RAM, GeForce 9800GTX, and case. $1500 before tax.

22:53 <zombie67> MT, WAY too high!

22:53 <PovAddict> I finally installed lm-sensors

22:53 <PovAddict> 40°C

22:53 <PovAddict> to think my Pentium IV was slower, yet 70°C :D

22:54 <zombie67> TM, the PSU needs to be big enough to power a GTX

22:54 <PovAddict> 750W not enough!?

22:54 <PovAddict> who will pay the power bills

22:54 <Soul_keeper> 100 psu, 200 cpu, 100 mb, 100 memory, 50 case ....

22:54 <MTughan> Take out the optical drives and downgrade the MB somewhat... $1350.

22:54 <Tank_Master> I got my intel mobo for $70 case for $50 ram is $137 for 4GB HD $50 dvd burner $25, PS $100

22:54 <MTughan> $100PSU? What the heck are you buying?

22:54 <Soul_keeper> antec

22:55 <Tank_Master> some good shyt

22:55 <MTughan> This is $160. PCP&C Silencer 750.

22:55 <zombie67> so, add ~450 for GPU, and you are <$1000

22:55 <PovAddict> the PSU costing half the CPU doesn't make sense to my logical mind

22:55 <Tank_Master> thermaltake 500w

22:55 <PovAddict> but prices are never logical so...

22:55 <zombie67> compared to 3x PS3 for $1200

22:55 <Tank_Master> yes, zombie

22:55 <zombie67> plus you get 3-4 CPU cores for regular crunching

22:56 <PovAddict> and games :P

22:56 <Tank_Master> im gonna wait for the nehalems though

22:56 <zombie67> Plus the power for 3x PS3 is freaking horrible

22:56 <Soul_keeper> could always get a cheapo psu by thermaltake or whatever for like 50 or so

22:56 <MTughan> I'm not going to have enough money to buy even a $800 computer until next summer though.

22:56 <Tank_Master> bummer

22:56 *** freakazoid0223 has quit IRC

22:56 <zombie67> PS3's are huge power eaters

22:56 <efc> You can invest in the S@H hardware project.. I accept personal checks, mastercard, visa..

22:57 <Tank_Master> lol

22:57 <Tank_Master> personal bank acount numbers and pins

22:57 <MTughan> I can make enough for $400 worth of PS3 over the Christmas break... But maybe I can cannibalize my old computer for parts...

22:57 <efc> Donations of 24 port hubs..

22:57 <MTughan> That'd give me a case, optical drives... 550W PSU be enough?

22:57 <zombie67> if you already have an old PC

22:57 <zombie67> then the cost goes down by at least the case

22:57 <MTughan> I'd need Molex to PCIe adapters.

22:58 <zombie67> and dvd

22:58 <Tank_Master> 550w is enough with a mid range vid card

22:58 <zombie67> just replace the mobo, PSU, and maybe memory

22:58 <Tank_Master> you can get a 22x SATA dvd burner for just under $25

22:59 <PovAddict> GPUs need to work on lowering power usage

22:59 <Tank_Master> defently

22:59 <MTughan> So just replacing the mobo, CPU, GPU, RAM, and CPU cooler (I'll have to for Nehalem), that leaves me at $1000. Wow...

22:59 <Tank_Master> thats the only thing that isnt

22:59 <MTughan> How much for the vid card?

22:59 <Soul_keeper> they don't care about power usage

22:59 <PovAddict> GPUs may have good computing power : price ratio

22:59 <Soul_keeper> beating the competition is their primary concern

22:59 <PovAddict> but is it good computing power per watt compared to CPUs?

22:59 <Tank_Master> if your cpu cooler is sueing a bracket n screws, you can just replace the bracket to make it nehalem compliant

23:00 <Tank_Master> would save from a compleatly new heatsink

23:00 <MTughan> Tank_Master: How much for a GPU and CPU?

23:00 <Tank_Master> who much what?

23:00 <Tank_Master> power or cost?

23:00 <MTughan> I've specced out a Q6600 for CPU and a 9800GTX for GPU. $250 for the CPU and $300 for the vid card are what I have. Are those accurate?

23:01 <Tank_Master> 2.66 nehalem is ~$285

23:01 <Soul_keeper> i'm very happy with my Q9450

23:01 <Tank_Master> would get you a lot more performance

23:01 <Tank_Master> yeah, I like my 9450 to

23:02 <MTughan> I think the vid card prices came down... I see $260 for that card now.

23:02 <Tank_Master> not supprising witht he 2xx series out now

23:02 <MTughan> Do you know how the performance of a 9800GTX is?

23:02 * PovAddict feels small

23:03 <Tank_Master> great for the price from what I hear

23:03 <PovAddict> AMD Dual 4200+, GeForce 8600 GT

23:03 <MTughan> For $260... All right, I can do that.

23:03 <PovAddict> <- small

23:03 <efc> So many numbers.. I liked it when the higher the number the better it was

23:04 <PovAddict> efc: "better" is subjective

23:04 <MTughan> I can probably scale down the MB too... I'm paying $300 for that.

23:05 <Tank_Master> lol

23:05 <MTughan> I should also see how much I can actually make over the Christmas break... It's possible I can get up to $1000.

23:05 <Tank_Master> I got a chepo for one of my crunchers

23:05 <Tank_Master> intel with all onboard

23:05 <zombie67> pov, link to your team boincstats?

23:05 <MTughan> Problem is I also want this machine to last for a couple years for a daily desktop machine.

23:05 <PovAddict> zombie67: http://boincstats.com/stats/boinc_team_graph.php?pr=bo&id=40

23:05 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/5ke63d> (at boincstats.com)

23:06 <MTughan> No OS cost though, as I'd just do Linux x86_64.

23:06 <efc> Up till now CPUs rarely worse out, but with the smaller processes it seems to start being a concerned

23:06 <Tank_Master> Id just go with server 2008 :P

23:06 <Tank_Master> free d/l

23:06 <MTughan> Cracked?

23:06 <PovAddict> for you

23:06 <zombie67> your team rac is 161k, mine is 70k

23:07 <Tank_Master> nope

23:07 <PovAddict> ha

23:07 <PovAddict> MTughan's team has higher RAC tho

23:07 <Tank_Master> they dont do anything to stop a trial version from ebing used

23:07 <MTughan> Meh. I like Linux. F*ck Windows.

23:07 <zombie67> that rac is stil dropping from Ramsey.  My real daily is ~50k

23:07 <Tank_Master> lol MT

23:08 <Tank_Master> each to their own, eh?

23:08 <MTughan> Anyway, that aside... I don't actually have any HDs priced out. I have a 160GB and a 120GB in the old machine I can probably reuse though.

23:08 <zombie67> MT:  problem is, linux is not on all projects, and most of the upt apps are for windows

23:08 <Tank_Master> there area few linux only projects though

23:08 <MTughan> This goes beyond BOINC. This goes to my views on the Microsoft monopoly.

23:08 <Tank_Master> ah!

23:08 <zombie67> so install OSX

23:08 <Tank_Master> as appose to the linux monopoly

23:08 <MTughan> I'll probably do a dual-boot, OS X and Linux.

23:09 <MTughan> Tank_Master: That's because there is no Linux monopoly, nor will there ever be.

23:09 <zombie67> we have a teammate that has installed osx on his laptop

23:09 <Tank_Master> rocket?

23:09 <Tank_Master> sweeet

23:09 <Tank_Master> +48k from ramsey

23:10 <PovAddict> my highest RAC would come from social engineering

23:10 <Tank_Master> lol

23:10 <PovAddict> convincing a cybercafe owner

23:10 <efc> I owe myself a new computer too, this thing is around 4 years old now, with a 6 year old video card

23:10 <MTughan> All right... So Nehalems are coming out in mid-November, we should have our first examples of the X58 and MBs then too. I can price out at that point.

23:10 <PovAddict> I've seen one in my neighborhood with 40 machines

23:11 <Tank_Master> MT- ill be gettin on as soon as I can :P

23:11 <Tank_Master> one*

23:11 <MTughan> I won't be ASAP, but I'll probably be about a month and a half afterwards.

23:12 <zombie67> the more cores you have, the slower ufluids run

23:12 <PovAddict> zombie67: cache filling?

23:12 <zombie67> when running all ufluids

23:12 <Tank_Master> sounds... logincal...

23:12 <zombie67> some sort of cache thrashing, I think

23:12 <Tank_Master> logical*

23:12 <Tank_Master> one bad thing about the nehalem...

23:12 <MTughan> Okay... If I have my math right, I can make about $900 working over Christmas break.

23:13 <Tank_Master> less cache per thread than the current quads

23:13 <MTughan> Because of HyperThreading?

23:13 <Tank_Master> $900 should give you a decent amount

23:13 <Tank_Master> yeah, and it only has 8MB total

23:13 <Tank_Master> not 12 like the 9xxx series

23:13 <MTughan> Yeah... Even my dual at 2.5GHz has 6MB L2.

23:14 <Tank_Master> but moving info to n from RAM will be much wuicker

23:14 <MTughan> DDR3 though.

23:14 <Tank_Master> quicker*

23:14 <zombie67> Tm, what's the code name for the Xeon version?

23:14 <MTughan> That'll push up the cost somewhat.

23:14 <MTughan> zombie67: Gainestown.

23:14 <Tank_Master> yeah

23:14 <Tank_Master> that

23:14 <zombie67> ah, right

23:14 <Tank_Master> :P

23:14 <efc> Thats such a crazy amount of cache.. I had computers with less RAM than that

23:14 <PovAddict> should get sleep

23:14 <Tank_Master> LOL

23:14 <Tank_Master> yeah

23:15 <PovAddict> wdsmia has a machine with 12MB cache IIRC

23:15 <Tank_Master> efc - you should see some of IBM's CPUs today

23:15 <MTughan> efc: How much RAC do you think they'd get? xD

23:15 <Tank_Master> some with like 256MB cache

23:15 <efc> without the math coproc, its not a pretty picture

23:15 <zombie67> That's L3 right?

23:16 <MTughan> I was thinking... If I waited until next summer, the Gainestown processors would be out, along with new video cards, and I could make an 8-core server.

23:16 <Tank_Master> yeah

23:16 <zombie67> MT:  you read my mind

23:16 <Tank_Master> MT

23:16 <zombie67> POV:  do you have daylight saving where you are?

23:16 <MTughan> zombie67: Yeah, but you're thinking Mac Pro?

23:16 <PovAddict> zombie67: yes, unfortunately

23:16 <Tank_Master> by next summer you can make a quad octi core server

23:16 <zombie67> MT, no, not mac.  Crunching boxes

23:16 <MTughan> Switch back at 2AM.

23:17 <zombie67> POV:  when do you fall back?

23:17 <Tank_Master> 2AM

23:17 <PovAddict> I don't remember

23:17 <zombie67> so no need to go to bed yet, you get an extra hour!

23:17 <PovAddict> I don't even remember if it was Feb or March when DST ends

23:17 <Tank_Master> heh

23:17 <MTughan> Tank_Master: You mean the MP editions?

23:17 <Tank_Master> yes, MT

23:17 <zombie67> TM:  are they making a Xeon 7 series for this core?

23:17 <Tank_Master> they will have an 8core CPU

23:17 <MTughan> Damn, you know how long I'd have to work for that?

23:18 <MTughan> And imagine the memory!

23:18 <Tank_Master> lol

23:18 <Tank_Master> years

23:18 <zombie67> I want to reduce all my machines into just one.

23:18 <MTughan> Plus: "H2 2009 - ?"

23:18 <MTughan> For release date on the MPs.

23:18 <zombie67> it's not the cost of the HW that kills you, it's the power consumption!

23:18 <PovAddict> look for good perforamnce per watt

23:18 <PovAddict> or

23:18 <PovAddict> look into generating your own electricity

23:19 <Tank_Master> make your own nuclear reactor

23:19 <zombie67> Tigerton?

23:19 <MTughan> Tank_Master: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Nehalem_(microarchitecture)#Variants The Beckton processors. Look at the release date.

23:19 <Romulus> Title: Intel Nehalem (microarchitecture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org)

23:19 <zombie67> Dunnington?

23:20 <PovAddict> is BOINC ported to AS/400?

23:20 <PovAddict> I could add a machine at work... :D :P

23:21 <MTughan> zombie67: Dunnington is the 6-core Xeon.

23:22 <MTughan> $2700 for that... 2.67GHz.

23:24 <zombie67> like i said, cheaper over the long haul

23:28 <MTughan> Tank_Master: The other thing about the MP procs... FB-DIMM RAM.

23:28 <MTughan> FB is more expensive and harder to come by, from what I've found.

23:28 <Tank_Master> I dunno if the nehalem xones will keep that or not

23:29 <zombie67> look at the table here:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Nehalem_(microarchitecture)

23:29 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/575tkr> (at en.wikipedia.org)

23:29 <zombie67> so I want Beckton ?

23:29 <zombie67> 8 core, 16 threads

23:29 <Tank_Master> yeah, I guess

23:29 <MTughan> Gainestown is dual proc. Beckton can handle more.

23:29 <zombie67> 256 KB L2/core

23:29 <zombie67> 24 MB shared L3

23:30 <Tank_Master> man, nice cache

23:30 <MTughan> Just note they may not come out until next July or so.

23:30 <zombie67> "Quad channel FB-DIMM2"????????

23:30 <PovAddict> !

23:30 <zombie67> WTF?

23:30 <zombie67> I thought FB DIMM was dead at intel

23:30 <Tank_Master> all zeons are quad channel

23:30 <MTughan> That's what I was saying, they use FB at this point.

23:30 <zombie67> TM:  The point is the "2" at the end

23:31 <Tank_Master> ahh

23:31 <Tank_Master> yeah

23:31 <Tank_Master> probably higher speed

23:31 <zombie67> MT:  Yes, FB dimm for the current batch.  FB dimm is supposed to be dead for all future stuff

23:32 <zombie67> LGA1567...is that a new socket?

23:32 <Tank_Master> yews

23:32 <Tank_Master> yes*

23:32 <MTughan> Yes. All Nehalems use new sockets.

23:32 <MTughan> Xeon currently uses 771, Core 2 uses 775.

23:33 <zombie67> same goes for the netburst xeons?

23:33 <Tank_Master> netburst is dead

23:33 <zombie67> I mean ".", not "?"

23:33 <MTughan> I'm not sure what the NetBurst Xeons use.

23:33 <Tank_Master> thats P4

23:33 <zombie67> I am talking about the sockets

23:34 <zombie67> same for NB, core and core2

23:35 <zombie67> okay, so here is the question, if I passed on MP, what is the dual-chip I should be looking at

23:35 <zombie67> ?

23:35 <MTughan> Gainestown.

23:36 <zombie67> that is a 4C/8TH chip

23:36 <Tank_Master> yeah

23:36 <Tank_Master> dual socket

23:36 <MTughan> Yep. Only way to get the 8-cores is the MP.

23:36 <Tank_Master> yes

23:36 <Tank_Master> till 2010

23:36 <Tank_Master> or 11

23:36 <MTughan> And the 32nm shrinks.

23:36 <Tank_Master> whenever the next gen comes out

23:37 <MTughan> Oh, you mean Sandy Bridge?

23:37 <Tank_Master> looks like 32nm will only get us 6core

23:37 <zombie67> but I thought someone said there is a 6 core?

23:37 <Tank_Master> only for 32nm

23:37 <MTughan> Westmere will be a native 6-core. That's the 32nm shrink, coming earliest Q4 2009.

23:37 <Tank_Master> and right now theres a multisocet thats 6core

23:38 <Tank_Master> its 3 dual core core2 xeons

23:38 <Tank_Master> in one package

23:38 <zombie67> what about dunnington?

23:38 <MTughan> That's the Dunnington core.

23:39 <zombie67> okay, but how does that compare to Nehalem?

23:39 <MTughan> It's the Core 2 architecture.

23:39 <Tank_Master> nehalem is a compleately new archtecture

23:40 <Tank_Master> has the memory controler on the die, so no northbridge

23:40 <Tank_Master> like AMD's setup

23:40 <MTughan> No FSB. Replaced by QuickPath.

23:41 <Tank_Master> QuakePath

23:41 <Tank_Master> :P

23:41 <zombie67> so the question is, how does 2x 6 core C2 (12 cores/12 threads), compare to 2x 4 core N (8 cores 16 threads)??

23:41 <Tank_Master> it doesnt

23:41 <Tank_Master> nehalem would cream it

23:41 <MTughan> Performance wise, we don't know yet.

23:42 <Tank_Master> the nehalems have far more memory throughput and lower access times

23:42 <MTughan> Tank_Master: Not in all areas. Overall, Nehalem would win, but there are areas that a Core 2 does outcome.

23:42 <Tank_Master> I havent seen that, in what areas?

23:42 <PovAddict> if this was a blog instead of IRC, *someone* would have commented "you're all geeks!" already

23:42 <Tank_Master> not like we know for sure yet :P

23:42 <MTughan> Hold on, I remember reading it somewhere...

23:42 <MTughan> lol

23:42 <Tank_Master> heh pov

23:42 <Tank_Master> probably

23:43 <PovAddict> I join Didactylos:

23:43 <PovAddict> to me, hardware is what makes noise next to me while I tinker with software

23:43 <MTughan> "Many early articles suggest that i7's design is not ideal for gaming performance. In a test done on leaked hardware, a Core i7 940 compared to a QX9770 shows the Core i7 is slower than Yorkfield clock for clock in 2 games while being faster in the other two. Difference in all cases are small."

23:43 <PovAddict> how does one leak hardware?

23:43 <Tank_Master> that was on early hardware that wasnt optimized yet

23:44 <zombie67> POV, the chips already exist out there under NDA

23:44 <MTughan> How long does it take to optimize?

23:44 <PovAddict> zombie67: yes but it's not like someone can violate the NDA and put them on the internet

23:44 <PovAddict> like it's done with software

23:44 <MTughan> I have a reference... One sec.

23:44 <Tank_Master> more recent benchmarks show that 2 geforce 280 in SLI are the bottelnecks in games at higher reses

23:44 <zombie67> of course they can

23:44 <PovAddict> quarter to 2am already

23:44 <PovAddict> ffs

23:45 <zombie67> it's only illegal if you get caught

23:45 <MTughan> http://uneit.com/2008/09/24/intel-core-i7-940-in-real-test/

23:45 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/5lb2vn> (at uneit.com)

23:45 <PovAddict> zombie67: put the CHIPS on the Internet? :P

23:45 <PovAddict> for people to download?

23:45 * Tank_Master eats his chips

23:45 * PovAddict goes to sleep

23:45 <zombie67> you can put test results on line

23:45 <Tank_Master> gn pov

23:45 <zombie67> gn

23:45 <PovAddict> zombie67: then I wouldn't call it leaked hardware

23:46 <PovAddict> I'd call it leaked test results :)

23:46 <MTughan> The i7 is better at the threading though, probably also due to HT.

23:47 <PovAddict> search BOINCStats for people running SETI@Home with not-officially-released CPUs... I've seen a few

23:47 <PovAddict> (also OS betas, but that's more common... seen one running Snow Leopard!)

23:48 <zombie67> holy sh***T!

23:48 <zombie67> what a great game!

23:48 <MTughan> Holy crap... Tank_Master: http://uneit.com/2008/09/24/a-little-test-of-intel-core-i7s-overclockability/

23:48 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/6xhhun> (at uneit.com)

23:49 <MTughan> First CPU-Z screenshot. It's been OC'd to 4GHZ!

23:49 <Tank_Master> hehe

23:49 <MTughan> They don't say what kind of cooling is used, but still...

23:49 <Tank_Master> firend of mine makes the mobos for intel

23:49 <Tank_Master> he;s gotten some up to 4.5 air

23:49 <Tank_Master> :P

23:49 <MTughan> That's the lowest model, 2.6GHz IIRC.

23:50 <MTughan> 2.66GHz.

23:50 <MTughan> At least, 2.66GHz stock... xD

23:51 <Tank_Master> yeah, sweet, huh?

23:52 <MTughan> So maybe a bit more now, but it pays off later.

23:53 <MTughan> So now... That gets me thinking. If I have to pay a bit more for a Nehalem, should I spend a bit less on the vid card and upgrade to two cards later on? Even if a MB isn't SLI certified, it should still be able to handle two GPUs.

23:53 <Tank_Master> I wish I have the $$ for a phase cooling system

23:53 <Tank_Master> yeah, it will run 2 GPUs

23:53 <MTughan> If I don't have enough for the card I want first time 'round.

23:53 <Tank_Master> but all nehalems can support SLI now

23:54 <MTughan> No, Nvidia requires another chip for SLI.

23:54 <MTughan> GT260 IIRC.

23:54 <Tank_Master> the x58 now support is

23:54 <Tank_Master> it*

23:54 <Tank_Master> intel got the licence from nvidia

23:54 <PovAddict> note BOINC doesnt support multiple different GPUs atm

23:54 <Tank_Master> it doesnt?

23:54 <Tank_Master> why not?

23:54 <MTughan> "X58 board manufacturers will be able to build SLI-compatible Intel chipset boards by submitting their designs to Nvidia for validation. However, users wishing to run more than two Nvidia video cards in PCIe x16 will still need to purchase motherboards equipped with one or more Nvidia nForce chipsets."

23:55 <Tank_Master> huh

23:55 <Tank_Master> never read that before

23:55 <Tank_Master> that sucks

23:55 <Tank_Master> :P

23:56 <PovAddict> if you have a foo and a bar, it will think you have two foos (same speed and all) which may make a mess with the schedulet

23:56 <MTughan> http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3395

23:56 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/6mljvb> (at www.anandtech.com)

23:56 <MTughan> PovAddict: Well, who said they were different cards?

23:57 <MTughan> Ah... Tank_Master: X58's alone can run two SLI cards, but for more, they need an nForce 200 chipset for more PCIe lanes.

23:58 <Tank_Master> ahh, ok

23:58 <PovAddict> nobody :P im just saying

23:58 <Tank_Master> makes sence now

23:58 <MTughan> Because X58 only has 36 PCIe lanes. Two x16s will take 32 of those.

23:58 <MTughan> But boards still need to be certified by Nvidia for SLI support.

23:59 <Tank_Master> ugg

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