00:00 <MTughan> Not including customs, which is already in the price.
00:00 <jackygrahamez_> Is Canada the happiest country in the World?
00:01 <jackygrahamez_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:World_happiness.png
00:01 <MTughan> I could believe that.
00:02 <jackygrahamez_> MTughan, you got a sister? :-)
00:02 <efc> 'course, the smart people have things structures as capital gain, gets you down to 10%
00:02 <MTughan> jackygrahamez_: Why?
00:02 <jackygrahamez_> just looking for a route to citizenship
00:02 <jackygrahamez_> joking
00:02 <MTughan> Yes. And she's two years younger than me.
00:03 <MTughan> You can always try PovAddict's sis. xD
00:03 <efc> I'm looking for a route to marriage, does she ship UPS or Fedex?
00:03 <Soul_keeper> "are you sleeping with my daughter?" "....no!" "why are you gay?!"
00:03 <Soul_keeper> well it's clear now that hollywood runs america
00:04 <MTughan> &cad CAD's up.
00:04 <MTughan> XKCD not yet, I'll keep an eye on it.
00:04 <efc> At one point in the past btw, the highest individual income tax in the US was 92%
00:05 <efc> WW2 I think
00:05 <MTughan> Dems have just about tipped the House.
00:06 <MTughan> That'd be a full Democratic sweep I think.
00:06 <MTughan> House tipped.
00:07 <efc> Shields up
00:08 <MTughan> US has now voted a total Democratic majority.
00:09 <Soul_keeper> i'm scared
00:09 <Tank_Master> MTughan - you cant crunch with ATI
00:09 <MTughan> AI will be releasing an app for ATI soon.
00:10 <Soul_keeper> ron paul was saying yesterday on cnn that we need no majority so that way they can bicker and grind to a halt and stop passing all these junk bills/policies
00:10 <RocketJumper21> absolutely
00:10 <MTughan> Tank_Master: http://www.intelligencerealm.com/aisystem/forum_thread.php?id=255
00:11 <MTughan> Soul_keeper: What do you think happens up here? We're WAY ahead of you.
00:11 <MTughan> We have 4 major political parties, and another one making its way up the ranks.
00:12 <Soul_keeper> good
00:12 <RocketJumper21> i'm a fan of Ron Paul / Chuck Baldwin
00:12 <RocketJumper21> the Constitution Party :))
00:13 <Soul_keeper> libertarian/constitutionalist
00:13 <Tank_Master> huh
00:13 <Tank_Master> so far only nvidia GPUs have been used
00:13 <MTughan> We have a Marijuana party... o_O
00:13 <jackygrahamez_> Now that we have a black president, do we have to worry about a deep impact scenario?
00:13 <Tank_Master> efc - I use fotit to for pdf
00:14 <Tank_Master> and I like that IR7pro blocks flash till I click on it
00:14 <Soul_keeper> they had a black president in that "24" show too ...
00:14 <Tank_Master> IE7pro*
00:15 <jackygrahamez_> Oh I should go to be
00:15 <jackygrahamez_> d
00:15 *** jackygrahamez_ has left #boinc
00:16 <Tank_Master> c-ya?
00:17 <RocketJumper21> musta seen his wife naked or something
00:18 <Tank_Master> lol
00:18 <Tank_Master> MTughan - do you know if BOINC 6.3 will detect ATI as a coprocessor like it does the geforce?
00:19 <MTughan> Dunno how they'll implement it.
00:19 <MTughan> At this point though, Nvidia and ATI cards require different programming.
00:20 <Tank_Master> yeah
00:20 <MTughan> However, my main motivator is that two HD4850's perform better than one GTX 280, and cost less.
00:20 <Tank_Master> ok
00:20 <Tank_Master> heh
00:20 <Tank_Master> LO
00:20 <Tank_Master> :P
00:20 <MTughan> AI may just build conditional ATI checking into their app and use it if available.
00:21 <MTughan> So it'll run on the CPU, but if it detects a compatible ATI GPU, can run on the GPU and CPU.
00:27 <MTughan> &xkcd XKCD is up.
00:27 <MTughan> Oh, and has relevance to the election!
00:28 <Tank_Master> heh
00:28 <Tank_Master> figures
00:28 <Tank_Master> :P
00:28 <MTughan> "<name> the <occupation>" xD
00:32 <MTughan> Oh, and Tank_Master: Forgot to directly address your question above, about whether BOINC 6.3 will detect an ATI card as a coprocessor.
00:32 <MTughan> At this point, no. Just Nvidia cards.
00:32 <Tank_Master> ok
00:32 <Tank_Master> thx
00:32 <Tank_Master> though they probably will at some point, right?
00:33 <MTughan> But my purchase is still far off. I can still change to a Nvidia.
00:33 <MTughan> More than likely. I can't see how they can afford not to.
00:33 <Tank_Master> or they can ad ATI
00:33 <Tank_Master> yeah, I dont see why they wouldnt
00:34 <MTughan> (from above) Even if I get a 9800GTX(+), I can add another one later. Two of those perform better than the two HD4850's, and the GTX is still plenty powerful.
00:34 <MTughan> Plus BOINC coprocessing.
00:35 <MTughan> Hey look, my email address has won the UK lottery... >_>
00:35 <granpa_paul> ATI has released they latest version of Cuda-like developer package
00:35 <Tank_Master> but they arent compatible, right, granpa_paul?
00:35 <MTughan> One second... Let me see if I can find that again.
00:36 <granpa_paul> oh no
00:36 <Romulus> Title: Apple - Mac OS X Leopard - Snow Leopard (at www.apple.com)
00:36 <MTughan> The OpenCL.
00:37 <Tank_Master> sounds like a cuda wrapper
00:37 <granpa_paul> they'll have to modify quite a few things, but porting shouldn't be neaarly as hard as the cuba based projects
00:37 <Tank_Master> but that is nice to see added to the OS
00:38 <MTughan> "AMD has decided to back OpenCL (and DirectX 11) instead of its now deprecated Close to Metal framework."
00:38 <MTughan> Nice...
00:38 <Tank_Master> :)
00:38 <Romulus> Title: OpenCL - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org)
00:38 <MTughan> I don't see any mention of Nvidia.
00:38 <Tank_Master> DX11 - that win7, right?
00:38 <MTughan> Maybe. Like DX10 was Vista.
00:38 <Tank_Master> ya
00:39 <Tank_Master> I think so
00:39 <MTughan> That's actually the first time I've heard of DX11.
00:39 <Tank_Master> with the major scheduled features including GPGPU
00:40 <MTughan> Doesn't it already? :P
00:40 <Tank_Master> Direct3D 11 will run on Windows Vista and its successor Windows 7
00:41 <RocketJumper21> TM u installed win7 already... does it say it has DX11 or is it still DX10?
00:41 <Tank_Master> 10
00:42 <RocketJumper21> guess they're still working on 11
00:42 <Tank_Master> this is only m3, 11 might be in the B1 or RC1 builds later on
00:42 <Tank_Master> yeah
00:42 <MTughan> Are you a registered dev, rip off M3, or is it available for public d/l?
00:43 <Tank_Master> torrent M3
00:43 <Tank_Master> :P
00:43 <MTughan> Fair enough.
00:43 <RocketJumper21> it's on my ftp site too.....
00:43 <Tank_Master> yeah
00:43 <RocketJumper21> shhh, hehe
00:43 <Tank_Master> :P
00:43 <MTughan> I have Vista Beta 2 and RC1 DVDs at home. xD
00:44 <Tank_Master> lol
00:44 <Tank_Master> I tossed mine a month ago
00:44 <MTughan> I haven't really been home since beginning of September. Although I don't really need them anymore.
00:45 <RocketJumper21> yea i still have my RC1 Vista DVDs of x86 and x64 but then when Vista came out i ran out and bought it... all 400 bucks for the ultimate edition...
00:45 <MTughan> Hmm... Do you think it's worth recycling the P4 I have now, getting a cheap case and PSU, and creating another cruncher?
00:45 <Tank_Master> yeah
00:45 <Tank_Master> would use less power
00:45 <MTughan> Believe it or not, I have a Vista Ultimate license too...
00:46 <Tank_Master> nice
00:46 <Tank_Master> believe it or not, I dont
00:46 <Tank_Master> ;)
00:46 <MTughan> Tank_Master: No, I'm replacing the P4 with the case I have now. Should I keep it and stick in in a cheap case and PSU?
00:46 <RocketJumper21> and u call yourself an it admin? hehe
00:47 <Tank_Master> yeah, I do, thats why I know were to get the stuff free and not bother with keys
00:47 <Tank_Master> ;)
00:47 <MTughan> My main OSes now are both Unix based.
00:47 <RocketJumper21> hehe, yep.... good call :))
00:47 <MTughan> I like the Linux solutions better. Free, powerful, and LEGAL.
00:48 <MTughan> What the... Why do I have two Trashes on my desktop?
00:48 <RocketJumper21> yea.... and ubuntu comes with some nice screensavers hehe
00:48 <MTughan> rofl... I have Trash in the Trash.
00:48 <Tank_Master> thats cus your linux is twice the trash it once was
00:49 <Tank_Master> :D
00:49 <MTughan> Tank_Master: Trash before = 0. 2* Trash before = 0
00:49 <MTughan> Easy enough math. :D
00:49 <MTughan> Or maybe I have negative trash... >:D
00:50 <RocketJumper21> what's the opposite of trash? Assets?
00:50 <RocketJumper21> Linux?
00:50 <Romulus> It has been said that Linux is case sensitve, Kathryn and kathryn are as different as bob and kathRyn, RocketJumper21
00:50 <RocketJumper21> hehe
00:50 <MTughan> Hehe... I can trash the trash in the Trash in the Trash. Wow, that makes my head spin...
00:51 <MTughan> Think I can trash Obama?
00:51 <Tank_Master> lol
00:51 <Tank_Master> sounds like a logic loop that some poor linux developer over looked
00:51 <RocketJumper21> Romulus: do you realize i already know that?
00:51 <Romulus> RocketJumper21: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
00:51 * Tank_Master pushes Romulus into a crevasse
00:52 <MTughan> &do
00:52 <Romulus> MTughan: (do <channel> <action>) -- Performs <action> in <channel>.
00:52 <MTughan> &do #boinc kills himself
00:52 <Romulus> MTughan: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
00:52 <MTughan> Dammit...
00:52 <Tank_Master> lol
00:52 <RocketJumper21> sounds like a broken record.... :)
00:53 <MTughan> &do #boinc kills himself
00:53 * Romulus kills himself
00:53 <MTughan> xD
00:54 <Tank_Master> :P
00:55 <MTughan> Oh yeah... Tank_Master: Will be a new player to the market in a year or so: Larrabee.
00:55 <Tank_Master> ?
00:56 <Tank_Master> oohhh
00:56 <Tank_Master> more than a year
00:56 <MTughan> Intel's GPU.
00:56 <RocketJumper21> Romulus: are you from the Romulan-Klingon Alliance in Star Trek?
00:56 <Romulus> RocketJumper21: Are you daft?
00:56 <Tank_Master> in a yea is the die shrink
00:56 <MTughan> "Intel plans to have engineering samples of Larrabee ready by the end of 2008, with a video card hitting shelves in late 2009 or 2010"
00:56 <Tank_Master> huh
00:56 <MTughan> RocketJumper21: Use &8ball.
00:56 <MTughan> &8ball are you from the Romulan-Klingon Alliance in Star Trek?
00:56 <Romulus> MTughan: The answer is a resounding no.
00:57 <Tank_Master> sounds like a precoursor to the CPU/GPU hybread
00:57 <Tank_Master> comming out after the 32mn dieshrink
00:57 <MTughan> Larrabee is a CPU/GPU hybrid.
00:57 <Tank_Master> but...
00:57 <Tank_Master> I didnt think that was comming out till 10/11
00:57 <Tank_Master> strange
00:57 <MTughan> Guess they've been moved up.
00:58 <Tank_Master> they must be coming along faster than planed origonally
00:58 <Tank_Master> I aint complaining
00:58 <Tank_Master> :D
00:58 <MTughan> lol
00:58 <Tank_Master> 2TFlOPs on one chip....
00:58 <Tank_Master> get a handfull of them...
00:59 <RocketJumper21> that's insane
01:00 <MTughan> Looks like Larrabee will first be on a 45nm process, with 32 cores. Defectives will be sold as 24-core. In 2010, Larrabee will move to 32nm, and 48 cores.
01:00 <Tank_Master> delaying the 32mn shrink?
01:00 <Tank_Master> wow
01:00 <MTughan> And may have a TDP of 300W... O_O
01:00 <Tank_Master> they must really be ahead of schedual
01:00 <Tank_Master> lol
01:00 <Tank_Master> sounds like most GPUs today
01:00 <MTughan> That's higher than anything today.
01:01 <Tank_Master> cpu wise anyway
01:02 <MTughan> I'm trying to look up specs. I think the GTX 280 is around 250W.
01:02 <MTughan> 236W.
01:03 <Tank_Master> hot stuff
01:03 <MTughan> Hopefully Larrabee will be more efficient.
01:05 <Tank_Master> yeah
01:05 <MTughan> BTW: Comparison of Crossfire vs. single cards. http://images.hardwarecanucks.com/image/skymtl/GPU/CROSSFIRE/CROSSFIRE-64.JPG
01:05 <Tank_Master> cant wait to BOINC it
01:06 <Tank_Master> I cant wait for the 380 to come out (if the spects I saw were true)
01:07 <Tank_Master> 256 shaders, 2GB ram...
01:07 <Tank_Master> higher clocks
01:07 <MTughan> Now, the power usage is also higher. The whole system they were testing drew 376W under full load. Although the GTX 280 drew 361W, so that's not too bad.
01:09 <Tank_Master> still not to bad
01:09 <Tank_Master> could be much higher
01:09 <MTughan> Yeah. Considering the ATI cards averaged 25 fps higher than the 280 at 2560x1600. That's just massive.
01:10 <RocketJumper21> u mean 40 fps higher?
01:10 <MTughan> I'm looking at the 4850's, not the 4870's.
01:11 <MTughan> Two 4850's are less than a GTX280.
01:11 <RocketJumper21> i didn't realize the ATI's were doing so well nowadays
01:11 <Tank_Master> they werent
01:11 <MTughan> The 4800 series basically blew everyone out of the water in terms of performance and value.
01:11 <Tank_Master> till the 4850 and 4870 came out
01:12 <MTughan> Nvidia had to immediately drop the prices on the GTX series. I think the 260 dropped at least $100 and the 280 ~$150. Just to compete.
01:13 <Tank_Master> ... oh man ...
01:13 <Tank_Master> &cad
01:13 <MTughan> Man, AMD should just get out the CPU business and go into GPUs. :P
01:13 <Tank_Master> GPUs are going to be gone in a few years
01:13 <MTughan> Saw it already. I'm scared to know what Ethan's going to do...
01:13 <Tank_Master> both AMD and intel are woking on CPU/GPU hybrids
01:14 <MTughan> I'm pretty sure discrete cards will never go away. Nvidia won't let them.
01:14 <Tank_Master> intel has sated that things like DirectX and OGL will be obsolete in 5 years or so
01:14 <Tank_Master> nvidia will become a processor on a board
01:15 <Tank_Master> adding to the computational power of the comp
01:15 <MTughan> Like the 9400M?
01:15 <efc> Back to the passive backplane, batman
01:15 <Tank_Master> efc!
01:15 <Tank_Master> wb
01:15 <Tank_Master> 9400M?
01:15 <Tank_Master> not fimillar with that
01:16 <MTughan> New Macbooks. It's a northbridge, southbridge, and GPU in one.
01:16 <Tank_Master> ahh
01:16 <MTughan> Not unlike their nForce series, I guess.
01:16 <Tank_Master> sounds like what intel will have out in a year of so
01:16 <Tank_Master> but no
01:16 <Tank_Master> for the GPU in that instance is still a GPU
01:17 <Tank_Master> but capibil of any general processing
01:17 <MTughan> Hehe... Larrabee is being designed by a team whose last project was the P4.
01:17 <Tank_Master> :P
01:17 <efc> It runs on crude oil
01:17 <MTughan> From Saudi Arabia? :P
01:18 <efc> Maybe this new cpu will knock down the core2 prices a bit.. without really leaving them behind in speed for a while
01:18 <MTughan> You mean Nehalem?
01:18 <efc> Yeah
01:18 <RocketJumper21> i7 :)
01:19 <MTughan> RocketJumper21: You probably know this, but Core i7 is using a Nehalem based core. So for now, they're one and the same.
01:19 <Tank_Master> nehalem is the codename for the architecture
01:19 <RocketJumper21> thus... i7
01:19 <efc> I do like the idea of cheap dual socket MBs coming back, but there's little mention of that yet
01:19 <Tank_Master> i7 is the name fo rhte desktop varent
01:20 <efc> "cheap" in relative terms, I mea
01:20 <Tank_Master> yeah, that would be nice, efc
01:20 <MTughan> efc: The Gainestown probably won't be out until Q1 2009 or later.
01:20 <Tank_Master> cheep, like the dual P3 I had
01:21 <MTughan> Just the Bloomfield cores being released now.
01:21 <efc> somewhere i read that the inter processor interface was much simpler. but i guess the CPUs themselves have to support it?
01:21 <MTughan> You mean QPI?
01:22 <RocketJumper21> yea kinda like AMD's Direct Connect architecture
01:22 <efc> I guess so, looking
01:23 <MTughan> Direct Connect? You mean Hyper Transport?
01:23 <Tank_Master> which intel calls quickpath?
01:23 <RocketJumper21> i suppose
01:23 <Tank_Master> or soemthing like that
01:23 <MTughan> That's the view I got.
01:24 <RocketJumper21> yea i really was hoping that their DSDC Quad Phenom's were going to be revolutionary... but too bad so sad.... but now there's the i7 :))
01:25 <MTughan> Yeah, I think Phenom's going to get a push to 45nm soon, but it may be too little too alte.
01:25 <MTughan> late*
01:26 <efc> I think I posted a link earlier.. you can get a quad socket Phenom board, with a quad socket daughterboard
01:26 <MTughan> The Tyan one?
01:26 <efc> or is that intel, i can't keep em straight
01:26 <efc> Yeah that one
01:26 <RocketJumper21> that would be sick
01:26 <MTughan> Board: http://www.tyan.com.tw/product_board_detail.aspx?pid=271
01:26 <MTughan> Daughter: http://www.tyan.com.tw/product_accessories_spec.aspx?pid=49
01:28 <efc> I'd have to hack 2k all the way up to the datacenter edition to run one of those :)
01:28 <MTughan> lol
01:28 <MTughan> 32 cores in all with 8 quad-cores.
01:28 <RocketJumper21> that would be 32 Cores
01:29 <efc> win2k datacenter edition did up to 64 cores.. maybe only on special hardware though
01:29 <RocketJumper21> i would pee my pants, lol
01:29 <Tank_Master> efc - why not use server 2003?
01:29 <efc> in your hot, hot pants
01:29 <efc> 2k was my jumping off point, don't like the newer versions
01:29 <MTughan> "These processors are expected to be available in late 2008 to early 2009..." About new Phenoms. Does that range sound familiar?
01:30 <Tank_Master> lol
01:30 <Tank_Master> yeah
01:30 <Tank_Master> but where are they?
01:30 <MTughan> Good question. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Phenom#Future_models
01:30 <MTughan> I'm giving Rommie a workout tonight...
01:31 <efc> I guess you can buy umpteen core systems from OEMs but still its nice to see boards like that
01:31 <efc> If you have a blade system, I assume the blades are completely separate process-wise? ie 20 blades != 20 cpu system
01:32 <MTughan> As I know... Never looked it up though.
01:32 <efc> Those things are really expensive..
01:32 <Tank_Master> a balde is a computer
01:32 <efc> The kind of money saving math only a business major can understand
01:33 <Tank_Master> each with its one independent hardware
01:33 <MTughan> It's compact.
01:33 <Tank_Master> vary compact
01:33 <Tank_Master> and usually noisy
01:34 <MTughan> Doesn't really matter in a server room.
01:34 <Tank_Master> true
01:34 <Tank_Master> which is why there is usually little effert put into quieting them
01:34 <efc> don't think even my giant Inwin case could hold that Tyan.. much less the daughterboard
01:35 <MTughan> Anyway... I don't have early class tomorrow, but staying up to 3+ AM every day is taking its toll. I'm off to bed while it's still 1:30AM.
01:35 <Tank_Master> gn MTughan
01:35 <Tank_Master> nice chattin
01:36 <RocketJumper21> where would you put the daughter board?
01:36 <Tank_Master> in bed with the fauther board
01:36 <RocketJumper21> yuck
01:36 <RocketJumper21> hehe
01:36 <efc> usually they are custom cases
01:36 <efc> weird stuff that turns up in 5 years on ebay for $5
01:37 <efc> cuz it doesn't fit anything else
01:37 <MTughan> Gah... F*** you CPU scaling. First my computer is sitting idle for two hours, then it sits crunching at a third of its capacity for another 2 hours...
01:37 <efc> in-win could do a 15x13", maybe
01:37 <RocketJumper21> lol
01:38 <RocketJumper21> turn off scaling then
01:38 <MTughan> Wish I knew.
01:38 <RocketJumper21> bios
01:38 <efc> CPU exfoliation, remove scales
01:38 <MTughan> And it's not totally useless. I still use this laptop on wireless for long periods of time.
01:38 <MTughan> Scaling the proc down from 2.53GHz to 800MHz is useful for extending batt life.
01:39 <RocketJumper21> well if you plan on crunching for a few days, turn it off, and when you wanna go mobile, turn it back on
01:40 <MTughan> I can actually set the speed manually, it's just I forgot to do it.
01:40 <RocketJumper21> in windows?
01:40 <MTughan> Linux.
01:40 <RocketJumper21> nice
01:40 <RocketJumper21> what distro?
01:40 <Romulus> Rumor has it what distro is this, RocketJumper21
01:40 <MTughan> Fedora 8.
01:41 <RocketJumper21> i love fedora
01:41 <MTughan> Customized Compiz and upgraded kernel.
01:41 <RocketJumper21> did you compile the kernel yourself?
01:42 <MTughan> Unfortunately, support for wireless is in the next kernel revision...
01:42 <MTughan> No, downloaded a testing kernel package and installed that.
01:42 <RocketJumper21> a dell laptop?
01:42 <Romulus> Title: Build System Info | Koji (at koji.fedoraproject.org)
01:42 <MTughan> Lenovo T400.
01:43 <RocketJumper21> nice choice, hehe
01:43 <MTughan> It's a nice machine. My first 64-bit processor too.
01:44 <RocketJumper21> what cpu?
01:44 <efc> oh yeah, that tyan set would max out at 128 gig
01:44 <RocketJumper21> C2D?
01:44 <MTughan> Core 2 Duo T9400. 1066MHz FSB, 2.53GHz core.
01:45 <MTughan> DDR3-1066 RAM, 2GB.
01:45 <RocketJumper21> 128 GB of RAM is almost enough to hold all my dreams at night, lol
01:45 <MTughan> lol
01:45 <MTughan> You mean a SSD?
01:46 <RocketJumper21> man i wish i had a couple SSD's, yea... i wanna wait until they get 1TB SSD's though
01:47 <MTughan> You'll be waiting a while.
01:47 <RocketJumper21> i hope not too long
01:47 <Tank_Master> lol
01:47 <Tank_Master> itll be a few years probably
01:47 <RocketJumper21> yikes
01:47 <Tank_Master> though going to 3.5" will help
01:48 <MTughan> Anyways, I do need to get off...
01:48 <Tank_Master> tc
01:48 <RocketJumper21> gn
01:49 <RocketJumper21> wow that T400 is cheap!!!!!!
01:55 <RocketJumper21> until you start adding upgrades, lol
01:57 <Tank_Master> :)
01:57 <Tank_Master> like a CPU, memory...
01:58 <RocketJumper21> yea. all the goodies
01:59 <RocketJumper21> Sale price:
01:59 <RocketJumper21> $3,190.00
01:59 <Tank_Master> :P
02:34 <efc> hmm, 57" 8ms LCD Monitor 1920 x 1080 $7,800, well Christmas is coming..
02:39 *** efc has left #boinc
02:49 <Tank_Master> crapy res for something that large
03:12 *** RocketJumper21 has left #boinc
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03:53 <CoderForLife> &wx 45140
03:53 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Temperature: 45.8°F / 7.7°C | Humidity: 76% | Pressure: 30.06in / 1017.8hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Fog | Wind Direction: ESE | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Today - Sunny. Highs in the mid 70s. South winds 5 to 10 mph.; Tonight - Clear. Lows in the mid 40s. Southeast winds around 5 mph.; Thursday - Mostly sunny. Mild with highs in the mid 70s. South winds 10 to 15 mph.;
04:17 *** [RKN]frost has joined #boinc
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05:46 * CoderForLife leaves for w@#%
05:46 <xcamel> as they say... "This is going to be a dark ride"
05:46 <CoderForLife> damn, just damn
05:47 <CoderForLife> I need to make A LOT more money to survive what's coming
05:47 <CoderForLife> laterz
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06:18 <PovAddict> ugh, if Obama won, this channel will be inhospitable for a while
06:18 <PovAddict> ...is that even a word?
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06:54 * KathrynM is downloading 108M of updates
07:01 <hawmps> big download
07:07 <KathrynM> updates for open office was the bulk of it
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07:17 <hawmps> 'lo
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07:33 <PovAddict> &weather buenos aires
07:33 <Romulus> PovAddict: Temperature: 80Â°F / 26Â°C | Humidity: 45% | Pressure: 29.75in / 1007hPa | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: NW | Wind Speed: 8mph / 13km/h | Updated: 10:00 AM ARST; Clear. High:87 ° F. / 31 ° C.; Chance of Rain. Low:71 ° F. / 22 ° C.; Clear. High:82 ° F. / 28 ° C.; Clear. Low:68 ° F. / 20 ° C.; Clear. High:82 ° F. / 28 ° C.; Scattered Clouds. Low:69 ° F. / 21 ° C.;
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08:27 <yang> I get error - reached daily quota of 2 results for one computer on WCG
08:27 <yang> I tried to reset everything and that error won't dissapear
08:30 <hawmps> because there are people who want to control the credit you can earn...
08:31 <yang> oh
08:31 <yang> I have like 5 computers that contribute, meaning I cannot upload from more than 2
08:32 <hawmps> exactly
08:33 <hawmps> oops.. no
08:33 <hawmps> each machine has a limit of 2
08:34 <PovAddict> it probably means you have been returning invalid results, so it lowered your limit
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08:35 <hawmps> one of many possible problems, really.
08:35 <yang> yes, i saw statistics it was like a dozens of invalid reports
08:35 <PovAddict> what WCG subproject(s)?
08:36 <yang> i dont know subproject, i have them all
08:36 <yang> but its -amd64
08:37 <PovAddict> is 'yang' your WCG username?
08:37 <yang> yes
08:38 <yang> wait
08:38 <yang> no
08:38 <yang> I have this for climateprediction
08:38 <yang> climateprediction gives me such errors
08:39 <yang> it seems like i cannot download a proper work for this computer anymore
08:39 <yang> the others are fine
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08:39 <yang> its for computer "lineamedia"
08:40 <PovAddict> computer names aren't publicly shown
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08:40 <PovAddict> can you give a link for that computer info?
08:40 <yang> yes
08:43 <PovAddict> it's failing to even start the processing app... you may want to ask in CPDN forum
08:44 <yang> ok
08:44 <PovAddict> "execl(/var/lib/boinc-client/projects/climateprediction.net/hadcm3trans_um_6.04_i686-pc-linux-gnu, 171460) failed!"
08:44 <yang> well i686 will fail on -amd64 off course
08:45 <yang> so...?
08:45 <PovAddict> "of course"? one of the important parts of the amd64 architecture is its compatibility with 32-bit...
08:46 <PovAddict> hmm... maybe you're lacking 32-bit libraries though... what Linux distro?
08:47 <yang> debian
08:48 <Romulus> Title: Debian -- Package Search Results -- ia32-libs (at packages.debian.org)
08:48 <PovAddict> apt-get install ia32-libs
08:50 <yang> thanks
08:50 <yang> will try
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10:40 <MTughan> Okay good, I do have 32-bit libraries installed on my machine...
10:40 <MTughan> Dunno how I would've checked that (Fedora), but I have a 32-bit executable that I know works.
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11:34 <hawmps> nice and warm out...
11:42 <Tank_Master> 43 and raining its nice n warm?
12:04 *** zombie67 has quit IRC
12:19 <hawmps> not here...
12:20 <hawmps> 63 and sunny
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15:04 <yoyo[RKN]> re
15:05 <MTughan> 'lo yoyo
15:11 <Tank_Master> yo yoyo
15:12 <MTughan> That really gets old fast.
15:12 <yoyo[RKN]> what happens with running wus if I set the application to deprecated?
15:13 <MTughan> I would think they would keep crunching, but I really don't know.
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15:51 <xcamel> 'lo
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16:17 <PovAddict> yoyo[RKN]: the client won't even notice
16:17 <PovAddict> 'deprecated' just stops the server from giving out work for that app
16:18 <yoyo[RKN]> ok
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16:22 <koshie> hi everybody !
16:22 <xcamel> 'lo
16:27 <xcamel> no politics today
16:29 <Soul_keeper> lol
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16:40 <MTughan> Tank_Master: Ovidiu responded on AI.
16:40 <Tank_Master> thx
16:40 <Tank_Master> bummer, oh well :P
16:40 <yoyo[RKN]> ?
16:40 <MTughan> You run Nvidia cards?
16:40 <Tank_Master> yeah
16:41 <xcamel> finally got around to installing rosetta stone on the modbook
16:41 <xcamel> en espanol
16:41 <Tank_Master> so I guess they wont be using BOINC for the GPU app?
16:42 <MTughan> You dropped the Rosetta Stone on your ModBook?
16:42 <xcamel> and it bounced.
16:42 <MTughan> Dang...
16:42 <xcamel> but it does seem to run nicely on OSX
16:43 <MTughan> I haven't tried running Rosetta. I can always look into it.
16:43 <xcamel> dow down nearly 500 - 0bummers fault
16:43 <PovAddict> MTughan: "Rosetta Stone is the world's #1 language-learning software."
16:44 <MTughan> Oh... Does it teach Egyptian?
16:44 <PovAddict> ...
16:44 <xcamel> indeed it does..
16:44 <xcamel> modern or ancient?
16:44 <MTughan> Okay, then it's fine. The Rosetta stone was used to translate Egyptian to Greek, which is how we know what they say today.
16:45 <MTughan> Or rather, the actual stone.
16:45 <xcamel> it does greek too..
16:45 * xcamel pushes the DUH button
16:45 <xcamel> <*DUH*>
16:46 <xcamel> need to check out the USB headphone/mic that came with it
16:46 <xcamel> dunno if that's going to work or not..
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16:53 <xcamel> wow - they're really good...
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16:57 * CoderForLife stumbles in
16:58 <MTughan> 'lo CFL
16:58 <MTughan> Watch the step.
16:58 <CoderForLife> yeah - fell over the political polls
16:58 <CoderForLife> people just leave them laying the next day
17:00 <MTughan> What kind of server name is that? Not that it's valid...
17:00 <CoderForLife> yeah - I got one spam like that at w@#% today
17:00 <yoyo[RKN]> lol
17:02 <CoderForLife> had trouble distinguishing the sides of the road driving home - all the fresh blue paint everywhere
17:02 <CoderForLife> Saab commercial freezes in that TM link
17:03 <MTughan> Not loading? Works for me.
17:03 <xcamel> it's a butt-ugly color when it's not overhead
17:03 <CoderForLife> and in Hamilton County, no less
17:04 <CoderForLife> what's the world coming to, comrades?
17:04 <xcamel> real conservatism won where it was applied.
17:04 <CoderForLife> Ok - I've reached my PovAddict-limit
17:05 <xcamel> otherwise, its a politics free channel day.
17:05 <PovAddict> &weather buenos aires
17:05 <Romulus> PovAddict: Temperature: 81Â°F / 27Â°C | Humidity: 42% | Pressure: 29.62in / 1003hPa | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: NW | Wind Speed: 9mph / 15km/h | Updated: 7:00 PM ARST; Clear. High:87 ° F. / 31 ° C.; Chance of Rain. Low:71 ° F. / 22 ° C.; Clear. High:82 ° F. / 28 ° C.; Clear. Low:68 ° F. / 20 ° C.; Clear. High:82 ° F. / 28 ° C.; Scattered Clouds. Low:69 ° F. / 21 ° C.;
17:06 <MTughan> Pov had posted a link about EstDomains being removed from ICANN. Well, the termination's been stopped temporarily.
17:06 <PovAddict> it cooled down...
17:06 <PovAddict> MTughan: there was a blog post on f-secure about that :)
17:06 <MTughan> I thought that was what I was looking at... Oh well.
17:06 <PovAddict> following the post saying it was being terminated
17:07 <MTughan> Oh, I copied the link to ICANN's site. Stupid me.
17:07 <PovAddict> heh
17:07 <PovAddict> it happens
17:07 <PovAddict> s/^/sh/
17:07 <CoderForLife> I have an on-topic question. I upgraded boincmgr in 'doze, and pre-filled-in passwords are appearing in the Select Computer dialog where I had none before. Where are those config'd? Did the upgrade add them?
17:07 <MTughan> I was trying to copy the PDF link there to read the announcement.
17:08 <CoderForLife> Ooo - I completed an LHC WU =)
17:08 <PovAddict> CoderForLife: when you type 'localhost', it fills in the password from gui_rpc_auth.cfg (same file the client uses to know what password to accept), since the manager has access to it
17:08 <CoderForLife> it's when I'm accessing another machine
17:09 <PovAddict> might be a new feature...
17:09 <CoderForLife> pain is more like it
17:09 <PovAddict> anyway, the manager uses "~/.BOINC Manager" on Linux, and the registry on Windows (don't remember key name)
17:10 <CoderForLife> so I got to serach the registry??
17:10 <xcamel> pov - was the 'fixed' build ever posted...??
17:11 <xcamel> manager/*nix
17:11 <PovAddict> xcamel: I don't think there was ever a "worked-around" build
17:11 <xcamel> thanks
17:11 <PovAddict> recently charlie made some major changes to how it works
17:11 <PovAddict> which maybe can be called fixed
17:13 * CoderForLife wonders why upgrades weren't better named "new aggravations"
17:16 <xcamel> they don't get the 'tighter code is better code' bit?
17:16 <CoderForLife> I found the IP address ar HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Space Sciences Laboratory, U.C. Berkeley\BOINC Manager\ComputerMRU
17:16 <PovAddict> me and Didactylos knew all along that the new code Charlie added to the manager was going to have problems
17:17 <xcamel> lol:
17:17 <Romulus> Title: Tsunami signs being swept away - Redwood Times (at www.redwoodtimes.com)
17:17 <CoderForLife> &seen Didactylos
17:17 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Didactylos was last seen in #boinc 7 weeks, 0 days, 22 hours, 52 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: <Didactylos> Bye!
17:18 <CoderForLife> no password seems to be in the registry
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17:29 <KathrynM> xcamel, I built from trunk early this morning (yay for insomnia) and the problem is *still* there.
17:30 <PovAddict> wtf
17:30 <KathrynM> huh?
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17:31 <MTughan> Not your fault. It means Charlie's latest "fix" wasn't.
17:33 * CoderForLife goes away
17:34 <CoderForLife> gn folks
17:34 <Romulus> Title: YouTube - Nerd kid plays the organ (at uk.youtube.com)
17:34 <MTughan> Night.
17:34 <KathrynM> sleep well
17:34 <xcamel> that answers that then.
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17:53 <wdsmia> re-hi
18:01 <xcamel> 'lo Doug
18:07 <wdsmia> *lo Jay
18:11 <xcamel> good day for a low grade migraine
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18:21 <xcamel> 'lo zombie
18:21 <zombie67> here we go...
18:21 <zombie67> hi x
18:22 * xcamel thinks it's my turn to go get coffee
18:22 <zombie67> Willy is going to pull FreeHal out of the stats....
18:22 * xcamel groans
18:43 <xcamel> FreeWilly is going to pull Hal out of the stats....??
18:51 <zombie67> yep
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19:15 <MTughan> zombie67: Why is HAL being pulled out?
19:16 <PovAddict> probably bad CPCP
19:16 <MTughan> CPCP?
19:25 <RocketJumper21> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3Wpn7xyzUqg&feature=related
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19:37 <efc> moo
19:42 <xcamel> 'lo Ed
19:43 <zombie67> MT: See my post near the bottom of this thread: http://www.setiusa.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=149320#p149320
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19:49 <MTughan> zombie67: Sorry for the delay, but I can't read that without an account.
19:53 <zombie67> thought it was in an open forum
19:54 <zombie67> i'll email it
19:55 <zombie67> sent
19:55 <Tank_Master> I can read it fine
19:56 <Tank_Master> :P
19:56 <MTughan> You're a member of SETI.USA.
19:56 <Tank_Master> oh yeah
19:56 <zombie67> that thread is not in the private section
19:56 <MTughan> "The board requires you to be registered and logged in to view this forum."
19:58 <zombie67> we probably have two levels: registered/logged in vs. known members
19:58 <MTughan> Dunno. Anyway, I can understand him wanting to do the same to Ramsey, but Pov and I analyzed the code and figured out we'd maybe get about 100 different results max because of the RNG.
20:01 <Tank_Master> I liked ramsey
20:01 <Tank_Master> the 15k RAC was nice
20:01 <MTughan> Because of the credits?
20:01 <MTughan> lol
20:01 <Tank_Master> and nickow seems like a good guy
20:01 <Tank_Master> the credits and the admin
20:01 * Tank_Master could give a rats @$$ about hte science
20:01 <MTughan> Yeah, but he figured he could use a better algorithm than bruteforce. It could've been a quick fix for the RNG, but a different algorithm is harder.
20:02 <Tank_Master> true
20:02 <zombie67> Ramsey aside, I don't think the freehal folks are intentionally inflating creditsw
20:03 <zombie67> probably just don't really understand how to use BOINC
20:03 <MTughan> Maybe.
20:04 <zombie67> other wise, why award half the tasks with less than 1 credit?
20:04 <zombie67> and award the other half with 100
20:04 <zombie67> ?
20:04 <MTughan> Average out?
20:05 <zombie67> why go to all that trouble, instead of just awarding 50 per?
20:05 <MTughan> I have no idea. I haven't seen FreeHALs results.
20:05 <zombie67> something is clearly messed up...not intentionally
20:05 <zombie67> The link was in the email
20:06 <zombie67> oh
20:06 <zombie67> just a sec
20:06 <MTughan> Thanks,.
20:07 <MTughan> That is odd.
20:07 <zombie67> see how I came to the conclusion?
20:07 <MTughan> They're running Perl...
20:08 <zombie67> and they have a LOT of other problems with the wrapper
20:08 <MTughan> I've never heard of Perl for a client application, so that could have something to do with it.
20:09 <zombie67> 1) upon *starting*, it immediately shows 35:45:04 of elapsed time
20:09 <zombie67> 2) the clock does not continue to climb
20:09 <zombie67> 3) % complete is 100%.
20:10 <zombie67> and it also sometimes run as if it is a non-CPU task
20:14 <zombie67> so instead of fixing it, Willy's response is to just remove it
20:14 <zombie67> Funny how he doesn't remove projects that significantly under-award
20:16 <MTughan> Because those don't allow people to move ahead unfairly.
20:16 <zombie67> not the point
20:17 <zombie67> the argument is: project need to award the same to make cross-project stats meaningful, and so that one project does not pull from another.
20:17 <zombie67> those arguments apply equally to bothe over and under awarding projects
20:17 <zombie67> yet no one ever says boo about the latter
20:18 <MTughan> Under awarding projects might also be those that are testing and not ready for primetime.
20:18 <MTughan> And people don't complain until they feel someone is cheating. Over awarding projects are those, under awarding are just dragging people back.
20:18 <MTughan> Agreed, it may not be fair. But it's capitalist.
20:19 <zombie67> those points address neither of the argument points
20:20 <xcamel> hey kids... if life were fair on this planet, we would be snack food for intelligent reptiles.
20:20 <zombie67> For DA or Willy to single out one side, just proves that they aren't being honest about WHY they are doing it.
20:20 <xcamel> exactly - never have been, never will be
20:22 <zombie67> my point: quit with the BS "justification". Be honest with us and yourself.
20:23 <zombie67> my personal opinion: Can't ever get to cross-project parity. So stop trying.
20:23 <zombie67> Use the Formula BOINC methodology, comparing ranks
20:23 <xcamel> DA designed it all to be very socialist, almost to the point of taking away points from strong performers and giving it to the schlubs..
20:31 <efc> Spread the credits, man
20:31 <wdsmia> Remember when DA stated (in the early days) people will just crunch a generic client they wont care about credit or having preferences to control there machines
20:32 <xcamel> very well...
20:33 <xcamel> polyanna processing
20:33 <wdsmia> yep
20:33 <xcamel> until some of us really kicked ass on astropulse
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20:46 <wdsmia> Then came the long/short term debit debacle imho that was where boinc dev turned into blot ware
20:46 <zombie67> MT?
20:46 <Romulus> I guess MT is right, zombie67
20:46 <MTughan> Yep.
20:46 <MTughan> And STFU Rommit.
20:46 <MTughan> Rommie*
20:46 <PovAddict> grommit?
20:47 <zombie67> I want to ask ABC to provide a 64 bit app for OSX
20:47 <zombie67> which version of BOINC client started support for 64 bit osx?
20:47 <MTughan> Well, just crashed an Apple app...
20:47 <xcamel> no idea..
20:48 <MTughan> Uh, I'm not sure.
20:48 <zombie67> POV?
20:48 <Romulus> Rumor has it POV is usually not got for very long, zombie67
20:48 <PovAddict> meh
20:48 <zombie67> come on! someone her should know
20:48 <zombie67> ;)
20:48 <PovAddict> I own no mac
20:48 <zombie67> but you know the changes!
20:48 <zombie67> to BOINC that is
20:49 <PovAddict> my brain is currently running throttled
20:49 <zombie67> heh
20:49 <PovAddict> to conserve the low battery power my body has left, and to avoid overheating (we reached 38Â°C this afternoon)
20:49 <zombie67> is that something that trac would know?
20:50 <PovAddict> coulda shoulda woulda
20:50 <PovAddict> maybe
20:51 <PovAddict> CPCP = Cross-Project Credit Parity
20:51 <PovAddict> Acronym Pulled Out Of My [____]
20:52 <PovAddict> bah
20:52 <zombie67> POV, CPCP makes me thing of the USSR
20:52 <PovAddict> I have a setiusa forum account but I don't remember even username
20:52 <PovAddict> zombie67: until it gets officially "removed", we have to live with it - and follow it
20:53 <PovAddict> basically as long as stats sites add up credits from different projects as if they had the same "exchange rate", projects have to try to keep them with the same exchange rate...
20:53 <zombie67> until what gets removed?
20:54 <zombie67> POV, fair enough, but that applies to the UNDER-awarding projects too
20:54 <zombie67> yet....silence
20:54 <PovAddict> definitely!
20:54 <PovAddict> but then... under- or over-awarding compared to what?
20:54 <zombie67> according to DA, SETI
20:55 <PovAddict> Eric Korpela is making SETI drift with his new credit adjustment features...
20:55 <zombie67> When I said reminds me of USSR, I was talking about the acronym ....CCCP
20:55 <zombie67> POV: exactly! SETI is not a fixed benchmark!
20:55 <zombie67> So how can it possibly be for any other project to use?
20:55 <PovAddict> Crappy Computation Credit Parity?
20:56 <zombie67> especially since they added AP, which does not have an optimized app
20:56 <Romulus> Title: Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org)
21:02 <xcamel> If someone made a boinc client that was open source, did good science, and was purely capitalistic, in a short time no one would remember DA or EK' names...
21:03 <PovAddict> an initial idea for "credits done our way" is simple...
21:03 <xcamel> no tinkering, no smoothing, no adjusting. raw credit for raw work.
21:04 <xcamel> clean out all the shit code and go for pure speed
21:04 <wdsmia> asks xcamel to please watch his or her language… Thanks, your friendly channel op.
21:04 <PovAddict> a project wanting to "participate" in... well, having less problems :P would just have to grant credits any way it wants, and either not export XMLs or export in a different format...
21:04 <zombie67> Formula BOINC!
21:04 <xcamel> bingo
21:05 <PovAddict> stats sites, you want the data? don't add it with credits from other projects
21:06 <xcamel> It's only taken 4 years for people to start agreeing with me, and see that boinc is going exactly the route I said it would..
21:07 <PovAddict> o well I'll have to go
21:08 <xcamel> that is to a point of credit abstraction that nobody can stomach
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21:13 * efc lost track of what the Right Thing To Do was
21:17 <xcamel> yeah, that too..
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21:21 <xcamel> that was fast..
21:21 <PovAddict> I had to do a clean reboot for once, to fix my hardware clock
21:22 <xcamel> time change?
21:22 <PovAddict> I hadn't done a clean reboot since DST started
21:22 <PovAddict> and Linux only saves system clock to hardware clock on shutdown
21:23 <PovAddict> every time I had a "non-clean" shutdown (like I had an hour ago, power glitch), my system clock got loaded from the off-by-an-hour hardware clock...
21:23 <PovAddict> heh from boincstats shoutbox:
21:23 <PovAddict> "SETI has server "issues" (nothing new there) and no estimate given when they will be back on line."
21:24 <efc> How is S@H doing money wise? Keeping the lights on?
21:26 <PovAddict> as always, asking for donations :P
21:27 <efc> Yeah, but they aren't meeting their goals, so I assume something has to give
21:27 <MTughan> They want to set up a non-profit organization for donations.
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21:33 <efc> I think they got the non-profit part down pretty well
21:34 <xcamel> "giant sucking sound" comes to mind...
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21:36 <zombie67> sounds like a pretty good reason to keep interest high for seti crunchers....don't look at that attractive project over there!
21:38 <xcamel> a mass defection might make a point...
21:38 <MTughan> lol
21:40 <zombie67> I'm just saying that DA has a conflict of interest when it comes to credits, and what standard to use
21:41 <MTughan> brb, restarting Colloquy...
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21:43 <MTughan> There, that should help.
21:45 <MTughan> Hmm... Think 31 tabs open in FF might be contributing to high RAM usage? :P
21:46 <MTughan> Just like that, I'm down to 21... Man, I had some old tabs open.
21:52 <xcamel> could be trouble...
21:53 <xcamel> just 2 more days..
21:54 <MTughan> To what?
21:54 <xcamel> mexico
21:55 <MTughan> Mexico? A country has a day?
21:55 <xcamel> 2 week vacation...
21:55 <MTughan> Ah. Sounds nice.
21:55 * xcamel seriously needs it...
21:56 <MTughan> lol
21:56 <xcamel> more than seriously
21:56 * MTughan hasn't seen so few tabs in FF for a couple weeks...
21:56 <xcamel> laterz...
21:56 <MTughan> Bye.
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23:10 <nickuwo> hey everybody
23:11 <MTughan> 'lo nick
23:21 <zombie67> hi nick!
23:31 <zombie67> i am sure now, they changed freehal to non-cpu
23:31 <MTughan> Even though it is?
23:33 <zombie67> yeah, but not much
23:33 <zombie67> I think
23:33 <zombie67> for example, I have two VP tasks running, and they take 49 and 50%
23:34 <zombie67> so FH is taking only1%
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