IRC logs of #boinc for Saturday, 2009-02-07

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00:40 <MTughan> "I used to drink beer with chocolate donuts during those late night server upgrades. Sounds horrible, tastes great." I'm not disputing the taste, but that's one of the odder things I've seen posted on a forum, BOINC or not.

00:45 <efc> Zzzz

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02:09 <efc> &math convert 170 watts to horsepower

02:09 <Romulus> efc: 0.227973755231

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02:47 <CoderForLife> &wx 45140

02:47 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Temperature: 43.1F / 6.2C | Humidity: 81% | Pressure: 30.10in / 1019.2hPa (Steady) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: West | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Tonight - Mostly clear. A slight chance of sprinkles late. Lows in the upper 30s. South winds increasing to 10 to 15 mph.; Saturday - Mostly cloudy with a 20 percent chance of rain. Breezy with highs in the mid 50s. Southwest (1 more message)

02:48 <MTughan> 'lo CFL

02:48 <CoderForLife> hello Michael

02:48 <CoderForLife> &more

02:48 <Romulus> CoderForLife: winds 20 to 25 mph.; Saturday Night - Mostly cloudy with a 50 percent chance of showers. Lows in the lower 40s. Southwest winds 15 to 20 mph.;

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03:08 <efc> moo cfl

03:08 <CoderForLife> moo efc

03:09 <CoderForLife> I'm looking for a news article

03:10 <CoderForLife> some place I saw that over $80B of the TARP money was lost due to bad timing of acquisition of bank shares by the gov't (or something like that)

03:10 <CoderForLife> nm  found it

03:11 <CoderForLife>

03:11 <Romulus> <> (at

03:11 <efc> Whoopsie! Awww shucks

03:11 <CoderForLife> only $78B

03:11 <efc> I'm sure someone will be held accountable.

03:12 <CoderForLife> the recipients will spend a long time counting

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03:14 <efc> isn't that creating jobs?

03:14 <Tidus> moo

03:14 <CoderForLife> Stimulus is defined by Pelosi as maintaining jobs

03:15 <CoderForLife> moo Tidus

03:15 <Tidus> so what's everybody up to?

03:15 <CoderForLife> 3:15am Tidus

03:15 <Tidus> not true.

03:15 <Tidus> maybe for you, but not me :P

03:15 <Tidus> 215 here

03:16 <CoderForLife> I wouldn't call it "up to"  - maybe "up again"

03:16 <Tidus> for me it's "still up" ... working night shift throws me off sometimes

03:16 <efc> my little motors and gears and such came in

03:18 <CoderForLife> I got up at 2:30

03:18 <MTughan> I've been up all night.

03:19 <CoderForLife> so, how are all your little motors and gears and such, efc?

03:20 <efc> cool, not sure what to do with em

03:20 <efc> 170 watts in a 1" diameter 2" long can

03:21 <Tidus> MTughan: finally fixed my media server's lockup problems

03:22 <CoderForLife> efc - I have an idea - maybe you oculd put them together and make something out of them

03:22 <yoyo[RKN]> moin

03:22 <Tidus> hiya yoyo[RKN]

03:22 <yoyo[RKN]> &wx sxf

03:22 <Tidus> MTughan: turns out it was the processor going bad

03:22 <Romulus> yoyo[RKN]: Temperature: 32.7°F / 0.4°C | Humidity: 98% | Pressure: 29.10in / 985.3hPa | Conditions: Fog | Wind Direction: ESE | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h | Updated: 9:19 AM CET; Chance of Snow. High:41 F.; Chance of Snow. Low:33 F.; Chance of Snow. High:37 F.; Chance of Snow. Low:28 F.; Chance of Snow. High:37 F.; Chance of Snow. Low:32 F.;

03:23 <MTughan> Tidus: Ouch, that sucks.

03:23 <Tidus> yeah... changed it out, haven't heard a peep from it since

03:23 <efc> the little planetary gearbox is neat

03:23 <Tidus> 02:23:37 up 6 days, 13:26,  3 users,  load average: 1.27, 1.17, 1.14

03:24 <Tidus> that's actually pretty good uptime based on the horror stories of how unstable debian sid/experimental is under load :)

03:27 <efc> night, maybe i'll feel better in the mourning

03:27 <CoderForLife> I mourn already

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03:46 <ELGono> morning

03:47 <CoderForLife> mm-hmm

03:47 <CoderForLife> morning ELGono

03:47 <ELGono> hey don, had already breakfast? hehe

03:48 <CoderForLife> yes - I had something at about 2:45am, before efc dropped off

03:48 <CoderForLife> I never mentioned it to him

03:48 <ELGono> yesterday you had a nice note on that and i just wanted to add, that it it reminds me to have breakfast often ;)

03:49 <ELGono> gna, double "it" ... need some coffee

03:49 <ELGono> &coffee

03:49 <Romulus> Here's your quad expresso!! BANG! Need an ambulance in 10 minutes?

03:53 <CoderForLife> need more beverage - brb

03:53 <MTughan> Is is espresso?

03:58 <CoderForLife> Classico...  Coca-Cola

04:18 <ELGono> hehe only fresh grinded coffee-beans here

04:18 <ELGono> coca cola has too much phosphoric acid

04:19 <ELGono> still unbelieveable to me that thez can use it as acidifier

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04:29 <yoyo[RKN]> &coffee

04:29 <Romulus> Here's your quad expresso!! BANG! Need an ambulance in 10 minutes?

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05:06 <CoderForLife> bbl

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05:45 <Soul_keeper> bla

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06:14 <Soul_keeper> CoderForLife, you got much experience with databases ?

06:14 <Soul_keeper> i'm getting an odd error here,  random values returned for a key

06:14 <Soul_keeper> erroneous*

06:15 <Soul_keeper> could reading the same key too many times in quick succession possibly cause this ?

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06:41 <CoderForLife> on my way to the store

06:41 <CoderForLife> yeah Soul_keeper - I have a good bit of database experience

06:42 <CoderForLife> we can chat later

06:42 <Soul_keeper> ok

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07:34 <xcamel> 'lo

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07:42 <xcamel> &wx 12074

07:42 <Romulus> xcamel: Temperature: 10.8F / -11.8C | Humidity: 81% | Pressure: 30.39in / 1029.0hPa (Falling) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: SSW | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Today - Partly cloudy. The high in the upper 30s. Light and variable winds...becoming south 10 to 15 mph.; Tonight - Mostly cloudy and not as cool. Near steady temperature in the mid 30s. South winds around 10 mph.; Sunday - Mostly (1 more message)

07:42 <xcamel> &more

07:42 <Romulus> xcamel: cloudy in the morning...then becoming partly sunny. Blustery with the high around 40. Temperature falling into the mid 30s in the afternoon. West winds 10 to 15 mph...increasing to 15 to 25 mph in the afternoon. Gusts up to 45 mph.;

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08:59 <xcamel> nobody up, eh?

08:59 <ELGono> moo jay

08:59 <xcamel> 'lo Elg

08:59 <ELGono> just investigating a weird jabber problem

09:00 <xcamel> I really want to put a bullet in this linux box

09:00 <ELGono> still the one you were restoring from backup?

09:00 <xcamel> I had it all running so well...

09:00 <xcamel> then I rebooted last night, and now it can't see the major member of the lvm

09:01 <ELGono> damn, sounds ugly

09:01 <xcamel> old box, old bios, sata II ad-in card

09:01 <xcamel> external usb drive

09:02 <ELGono> hmm might confuse lvm

09:02 <ELGono> but shouldn't

09:02 <xcamel> main drive pack is scsi - 4 drives

09:03 <xcamel> if I do 'lvm pvscan -u' the drive it **should** see comes up as 'unknown device'...

09:03 <xcamel> which makes no sense

09:04 <ELGono> thats the sata disk?

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09:09 <xcamel_> cripes..

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09:15 <CoderForLife> greetings and re-hi

09:16 <CoderForLife> back from the store

09:16 <xcamel> 'lo

09:16 <Soul_keeper> ok

09:16 <Soul_keeper> i need to wait 6min to retest something,  coffee time till then :)

09:17 <CoderForLife> eating some 2nd breakfast at my desk here =)

09:17 <Soul_keeper> could have been a crawler executing old scripts on my server ...

09:17 <CoderForLife> re-hi Soul_keeper

09:17 <CoderForLife> morning Jay

09:17 <xcamel> ok.. I did a vgreduce to remove the missing member.. there was do data on it (yet) anyway

09:18 <xcamel> trying reboot

09:18 <Soul_keeper> whatever happened while i was sleeping essentially corrupted my db

09:18 <CoderForLife> still struggling with LVM I see

09:19 <ELGono> lo don & sk

09:19 <CoderForLife> re-hi J-man

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09:19 <CoderForLife> J-man my favorite German

09:20 <CoderForLife> kinda rhymes

09:20 <CoderForLife> or not =)

09:20 <CoderForLife> anyways - leaving at the top of the hour to take the wife to he haircut appointment

09:21 <xcamel> well I'll be damned..

09:21 <CoderForLife> er her

09:21 <Soul_keeper>   blank lines were from randomly incerted (somehow) keys with blank values in my db.  trying to track down how that happened

09:21 <xcamel> that worked... sort of

09:21 <CoderForLife> heh

09:22 <CoderForLife> keys are blank, or null?

09:23 <Soul_keeper> what do you mean by null ?

09:23 <Soul_keeper> this is the mem2464 db entry: Sat Feb  7 05:49:49 2009 2026.77 62.99 343.24 1019.20 1963.78 10722.93 10722.92 0.01

09:23 <Soul_keeper> this is the mem2463 db entry:

09:23 <Soul_keeper> this is the mem2462 db entry:

09:23 <Soul_keeper> this is the mem2461 db entry: Sat Feb  7 05:46:49 2009 2026.77 66.50 368.95 991.96 1960.27 10722.93 10722.92 0.01

09:23 <Soul_keeper> like that

09:24 <CoderForLife> null implies that they have nothing in them, blank implies that they have one or more spaces in them

09:24 <Soul_keeper> print issued a \n  and preceding space ....

09:24 <CoderForLife> ugh

09:24 <Soul_keeper> guess they are null

09:25 <CoderForLife> sounds to me like they have a space and a newline = not null

09:25 <Soul_keeper> every 10 min i have a potential maximum of 60 db reads/writes occuring

09:25 <Soul_keeper> well  space (db value) newlone

09:26 <xcamel> it's baaaaakkkk

09:26 <xcamel> ...sort of

09:26 <CoderForLife> what I was going to suggest is that you define the key as "not null" so that the insert would fail if there was no value

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09:26 <xcamel_> peek-a-boo

09:26 <CoderForLife> as it is, it seems to have a value

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09:26 <CoderForLife> boo

09:27 <Soul_keeper> yeah, but that still wouldn't tell me why it became null randomly in the first place, i gotta track it down

09:27 <CoderForLife> sure

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09:28 <CoderForLife> wb Pie

09:28 <Soul_keeper> the problem didn't start untill i created a second daemon which reads/writes to the same db

09:28 <Soul_keeper> but they don't read/write the same keys, so i wouldn't have thought it could be a problem

09:29 <CoderForLife> what database?

09:29 <CoderForLife> does it support transactions?

09:29 <Soul_keeper> DB_File;  with perl

09:30 <Soul_keeper> basically berkeley db

09:30 <CoderForLife> hmm does it support transactions/multiuser?

09:31 <CoderForLife> since you mentioned perl, I would maybe chomp() your keys to get rid of the pesky newline

09:32 <xcamel_> oh hell.. this isn't good..

09:32 <xcamel_> one proscessor

09:33 * ELGono locks xcamels arms rack

09:33 <Soul_keeper> not sure CoderForLife

09:33 <Soul_keeper> doubt it,  it appears there is a later version out that supports new berkeley db versions ...

09:33 <xcamel_> bbiab

09:33 <Soul_keeper> i might have to try that

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09:36 <Soul_keeper> think i'll try deleting the db's and see what happens ...

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09:44 <CoderForLife> bbl

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10:03 <Soul_keeper>    ok trying from scratch, if it screws up again i might cry ...

10:03 <Romulus> Title: statsstatsstats (at

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10:55 <MTughan__> Soul_keeper: Yeah, with databases, there's a possibility of a race condition, where two processes attempt to write to the same file (or DB) at the same time. If the first saves the file after the second opens the file, but before the second closes it, the first's data is lost.

10:55 <Soul_keeper> that sounds about right

10:55 <MTughan__> Transactions lock the database until all the commands in the transaction are done, thereby removing the possibility of race conditions.

10:55 <Soul_keeper> i'm just gonna have to create two different databases

10:55 *** MTughan__ is now known as MTughan

10:56 <Soul_keeper>    can see what happened on the  1st, 3rd, and 4th image there

10:56 <Romulus> Title: statsstatsstats (at

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11:28 <Soul_keeper> ok it should all be fixed now then

11:29 <Soul_keeper> two separate daemons two separate db's

11:29 <Soul_keeper> not how i wanted to code it, but ohh well

11:40 <CoderForLife> back

11:41 <CoderForLife> yep, Soul_keeper - like MTughan said

11:41 <CoderForLife> that's where I was going

11:44 <Soul_keeper> there is still the slim possibility that the script that generates the images could access just as the daemons are and corrupt the db's

11:44 <Soul_keeper> this sucks

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11:51 <Soul_keeper> DB_File      doesn't support transactions, locking or any of the other new features available in DB 2.x or better.

11:51 <xcamel> yupper.. looks like I lost, or am losing a cpu

11:51 <Soul_keeper> BerkeleyDB   does, but it seems cumbersome and bloated at first glance

11:55 <Soul_keeper> i can't understand why they even need locking, why can't they just make the DB's work easy

12:01 <xcamel> amazing how it can still run on one leg...

12:02 <xcamel> what to do...what to do...

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12:27 <ELGono> any progress jay?

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12:35 <MTughan> Soul_keeper: One suggestion for your graphs. Maybe put a label for each graph? So at the top, have "Memory" or "Network". Because the only way you can tell them apart now is knowing what they are. Maybe network is hard drive activity.

12:37 <Soul_keeper> yeah that's minor stuff

12:38 <Soul_keeper> still trying to decide how i wanna fix this "lack of locking" junk

12:38 <MTughan> Yeah, that's more important.

12:38 <MTughan> What you could do is also have a "locking file", where the file exists if the DB is locked, and is removed afterwards.

12:38 <MTughan> Or use Perl's flock function.

12:39 <Soul_keeper> that's a good idea

12:39 <Soul_keeper> think i'll do that

12:40 <MTughan> Easy enough to implement. Just make sure you introduce the checking to each function. :P

12:40 <MTughan> Probably a good idea to make a subroutine to lock the file, another to unlock it, and a third to check if it's locked.

12:40 <MTughan> Then just call the subroutines instead of copying code.

12:41 <MTughan> If you didn't think of that already, that is...

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13:51 <CoderForLife> off to watch last night's BSG - bbl

13:51 <ELGono> have phun

13:52 <ELGono> i'm just in the tv-b-gone circuit ;)

13:52 <ELGono> think i'll build some

13:53 <ELGono> of the ULTIMATE remote ;)

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14:33 <jackygrahamez> hi

14:34 <MTughan> 'lo jacky

14:51 <xcamel> re-hi

14:51 <CoderForLife> wb

14:51 <MTughan> Me:

14:51 <Romulus> <> (at

14:52 <jackygrahamez> I got a question. Does anyone trust the figures on Willey's stat page that says we have 1,607,673 participants in BOINC?

14:53 <FreeLarry58> humm not sure about today for willey - got a number of boxes that lost credit - those boxes don't exist anymore and havent crunched for months

14:53 <FreeLarry58> as well as some active boxes experiences the same

14:53 <jackygrahamez> Well I'm trying to write a little PR for BOINC and say how many people participate Worldwide

14:54 <jackygrahamez> I'm just worried that 1.5 million might be an overestimation

14:54 <FreeLarry58> his site has been one of the first trackers since boinc inseption

14:54 <MTughan> Probably not, but not all those people would be active anymore.

14:54 <jackygrahamez> maybe people are creating multiple accounts

14:55 <FreeLarry58> some do

14:55 <FreeLarry58> but not that many i think

14:55 <jackygrahamez> if they people are no longer active, that's ok with me

14:55 <jackygrahamez> I'll say people have participated

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15:03 <ELGono> LoL MTughan

15:03 <ELGono> i'm bored too

15:05 * MTughan settled on a game of spider solataire

15:05 <MTughan> solitaire*

15:05 <ELGono> and german TV just offers "the day after"

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15:17 <ELGono> rehi jay

15:18 <jackygrahamez> &wx 20011

15:18 <Romulus> jackygrahamez: Temperature: 60.4F / 15.8C | Humidity: 40% | Pressure: 30.15in / 1020.9hPa (Falling) | Conditions: Scattered Clouds | Wind Direction: South | Wind Speed: 7.0mph / 11.3km/h ; Tonight - Partly cloudy this evening...then becoming mostly cloudy. Lows in the lower 40s. Southwest winds 10 to 15 mph.; Sunday - Partly sunny in the morning...then clearing. A 20 percent chance of showers. (1 more message)

15:18 <jackygrahamez> &more

15:18 <Romulus> jackygrahamez: Highs in the upper 50s. West winds around 10 mph...becoming northwest in the afternoon.; Sunday Night - Mostly clear in the evening...then becoming partly cloudy. Lows in the upper 20s. Northwest winds 5 to 10 mph.;

15:18 <jackygrahamez> oh yeah congress, stimulate this

15:19 <MTughan>

15:19 <Romulus> Title: Comics - (at

15:20 <jackygrahamez> good one

15:21 <jackygrahamez> Durring innaugiral week some people had two balls ... but I only had one :-(

15:31 <Soul_keeper> ok i think i finally got it all work ....

15:34 <xcamel> looks like congress ns no balls now - just a bog old porkfest...

15:34 <Soul_keeper> the joys of lock files ...

15:34 <jackygrahamez> you know I'm a liberal and even I'm sickened

15:35 <xcamel> mighty sad, eh?

15:35 <xcamel> so 3 RINO's makes it "bipartisan" - bwahahahah

15:35 <Soul_keeper> liberal is one of those terms that can mean anything ....

15:35 <jackygrahamez> true

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15:36 <jackygrahamez> In my case its anything but neo-con

15:36 <Soul_keeper> problem is all the "liberals" banded together to support the other "liberals"  yet most don't even know what's going on

15:36 <Soul_keeper> :)

15:37 <jackygrahamez> I think Nancy Pelousi and Harry Ried should be voted off the island

15:37 <KathrynM> MTughan, that's more tactful than what I was going to do.  I was going to take a screenshot and circle the stupid sig, put a big arrow and a note "Here are the flying butterflies!"

15:38 <MTughan> I figured just a screenshot would do.

15:38 <KathrynM> lol

15:38 <MTughan> Think we found the dancing bunnies? :)

15:39 <Soul_keeper> MTughan,    you gonna catch me now ?

15:39 <MTughan> Once ABC tasks start validating, at least match you.

15:40 <Soul_keeper> i'm gonna hold off on switching to 64-bit on this main box untill that wcg clean energy gets ports to 64-bit

15:41 <MTughan> That's the thing right now. It seems that the majority of computers on ABC are slower, or have higher turnaround times. So no matter how fast I turn in WUs, they take a couple days to validate.

15:41 <Soul_keeper> ahh

15:41 <MTughan> Seen a couple C2Q's on ABC running XP x86 too... What a waste.

15:41 <Soul_keeper> wcg seems to give credit right away same day

15:42 <MTughan> Not that I'm endorsing Vista or Win7, but 64-bit does tasks about twice as fast.

15:42 <Soul_keeper> nice

15:42 <Soul_keeper> i got thunder and hail going on outside

15:42 <MTughan> Overcast here.

15:43 <Soul_keeper> my porch collapsed in the backyard

15:43 <MTughan> Ouch...

15:43 <Soul_keeper> i call it a porch, it's one of those things that the plants/vines grow over

15:45 <Soul_keeper> whatever they call those

15:49 <MTughan>

15:49 <Romulus> <> (at

15:50 <CoderForLife> trellis?

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15:56 <MTughan> 'lo efc

15:56 <efc> moo

15:57 <xcamel> 'lo Ed

15:57 <ELGono> mo efc

15:58 <xcamel> I really need a small core2 quad to replace this box...

15:59 <efc> I see its time for the weekly s@h failure

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16:26 <efc> bleh, what did I do to my hip, woke up hurting and hasn't stopped

16:27 <xcamel> it's called "winter"

16:27 <efc> feels like its got a bubble in it that I can't pop out

16:28 <efc> (all of my joints pop, but the hips are rare)

16:28 <xcamel> ditto..

16:28 <efc> My left hip was the holdout until a few years ago when it went getting out of the car

16:29 <efc> My arms will actually basically pull out of the socket. Not painful, but weird.

16:30 <xcamel> mine will not dislocate, but will hurt like hell when they feel like it..

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16:31 <efc> I'm wishing I could pull the leg out right now and try to reseat it

16:31 <CoderForLife> lo all

16:36 <CoderForLife> heh, or not

16:37 * CoderForLife gets ignored at w@#% a lot too, but they ususally run the train off the track when that happens

16:39 * efc totally ignores CFL while steering train off tracks

16:40 <CoderForLife> *bump*

16:44 <xcamel> **bang**

16:44 * efc click-click

16:45 <xcamel> anyone remember how to find the clibc version in a ibstdc++ library?

16:45 <xcamel> er glibc even

16:45 <xcamel> guess not

16:46 <CoderForLife> er

16:46 <CoderForLife> google says /lib/

16:47 <CoderForLife> trying myself

16:47 <CoderForLife> mine says 2.5

16:48 <CoderForLife> on my CentOS box

16:48 <CoderForLife> version 2.8 on my F9 dev box

16:49 <CoderForLife> does that help xcamel?

16:50 <xcamel> found it..

16:50 <xcamel> thanks

16:50 <CoderForLife> k

16:51 * CoderForLife -> din-din

16:51 <xcamel> soon

16:57 <Soul_keeper> whole day waisted here, the exact same null data db issue came back ...

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18:18 <xcamel> &wx 12074

18:19 <Romulus> xcamel: Temperature: 36.3F / 2.4C | Humidity: 67% | Pressure: 30.03in / 1016.8hPa (Falling) | Conditions: Overcast | Wind Direction: SSE | Wind Speed: 1.0mph / 1.6km/h ; Tonight - Mostly cloudy with a 20 percent chance of rain showers. Near steady temperature in the mid 30s. Southwest winds 10 to 15 mph.; Sunday - Mostly cloudy in the morning...then becoming partly sunny. Blustery with highs in (1 more message)

18:19 <xcamel> &more

18:19 <Romulus> xcamel: the lower 40s. Temperature falling into the upper 30s in the afternoon. West winds 20 to 25 mph with gusts up to 40 mph.; Sunday Night - Partly cloudy in the evening...then clearing. Brisk and much cooler with lows around 17. Northwest winds 15 to 25 mph with gusts up to 35 mph...diminishing to 10 to 15 mph with gusts up to 25 mph after midnight.;

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18:43 * Rookie_69 woke up just in time for his nap.

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18:56 <xcamel> ther... solved the last great fubar.

19:05 <Rookie_69> ... until the next one pops up?

19:05 <xcamel> hopefully none of the aussie boys got caught in those wildfires...

19:05 <xcamel> I have a restored and working (both cpus now) box

19:06 <xcamel> being stubborn and persistant helps

19:07 <Rookie_69> It's not fixed until it's successfully crunched a few WU's...

19:09 <Rookie_69> I spent a couple hours outside scraping boilerplate ice from the driveway. I'm going to regret it tomorrow.

19:13 <Rookie_69>

19:13 <Romulus> <> (at

19:14 <Rookie_69> As Eddie Murphy said, Now that's a fire.

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19:22 <xcamel> quite a sat shot..

19:23 <MTughan> Soul_keeper: What's up with your stats script?

19:23 <Soul_keeper> my brain stopped working ...

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19:25 <xcamel>

19:25 <MTughan> xcamel: Timed out.

19:26 <xcamel> working now

19:27 <MTughan> Have an IP for me to try?

19:27 <Soul_keeper>     think i got it now

19:27 <MTughan> DNS is returning

19:27 <Romulus> Title: statsstatsstats (at

19:28 <MTughan> Soul_keeper: Yep, it's up.

19:28 <xcamel> crap.. gotta fix that...

19:29 <Soul_keeper> if i go trying to fix anything else i'll mess something up, so i'm gonna let it go for some hours and see what happens

19:32 <MTughan> xcamel:

19:32 <Romulus> <> (at

19:36 <xcamel> that'll probably take a while to disseminate

19:37 <xcamel> that was fast..

19:39 <MTughan> Well, that site gets them without any caching. We'll see how long it takes to get down to me.

19:39 <MTughan> In the meantime:

19:39 <Romulus> Title: YouTube - NFL Fantasy Files: The Best Players (at

19:41 <Rookie_69> It's amazing how it takes less time to lose interest in doing the dishes than it does to get hot water up from the basement.

19:43 <Rookie_69> I think there's some law stating that all plumbing must be installed along the windward wall.

19:49 <xcamel> only in Canada

19:49 <Rookie_69> It must have to do with keeping poor plumbers employed.

19:50 <MTughan> At least they're employed...

19:50 * MTughan needs to get laundry

19:51 <CoderForLife> looks like I will be able to fix my fallen closet wire shelves with stuff I have on hand - w00t

19:51 <CoderForLife> a project for tomorrow

19:52 <CoderForLife> signing off from here - gn

19:52 <Rookie_69> ... a hammer, some nails, and a few planks?

19:52 <Rookie_69> NN.

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20:04 * Rookie_69 doesn't need to get laundry... He usually has enough lying around.

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20:09 <Soul_keeper> check it out now MTughan :)

20:10 <zombie67> problem:  when building crunchers, you use the CD/DVD player exactly once when installing the OS.  That's a waste

20:10 <MTughan> zombie67: Solution. USB/Firewire 5.25" external enclosure.

20:10 <zombie67> can the same functionality be gained using an external player, connected via usb?

20:10 <MTughan> Soul_keeper: lol, "Athlon Relic".

20:10 <Soul_keeper> heh

20:11 <zombie67> MT:  exactly my thought.

20:11 <MTughan> zombie67: As long as the MB will recognize USB bootable devies.

20:11 <MTughan> devices*

20:11 <zombie67> how can I tell?

20:11 <MTughan> Most new motherboards do.

20:11 <zombie67> will all new mobos boot from USB device?

20:11 <zombie67> cool

20:11 <MTughan> You'd have to look in the manual to be sure I think.

20:11 <Soul_keeper> check the bios next time you reboot

20:12 <MTughan> I've booted my 2004 MB off USB drives before.

20:12 <zombie67> am thinking about building an atom crunchers

20:12 <Soul_keeper> look for  "device boot order"  or something similar   and "usb storage device"

20:12 <zombie67> problem, won't know until I buy the mobo

20:12 <Soul_keeper> i installed slack to this system from a usb drive

20:13 <zombie67> so I need to know in advance

20:13 <Soul_keeper> did the same on my Eeepc which don't have a cdrom drive

20:13 <MTughan> zombie67: You usually can get manuals off the web, and they'll usually say.

20:13 <MTughan> What manufacuturer?

20:13 <zombie67> probably intel

20:13 <MTughan> manufacturer*

20:13 <zombie67> or maybe jetway

20:13 <zombie67>

20:13 <Romulus> <> (at

20:13 <MTughan> Hmm, never heard of Jetway...

20:14 <Soul_keeper> they are a cheapo brand

20:14 <Soul_keeper> like foxconn

20:16 <Soul_keeper> ohhh atom

20:16 <Soul_keeper> no doubt that'll boot from usb

20:16 <MTughan> I'd be almost certain the Intel board would.

20:17 <zombie67> manual is here:

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20:17 <Romulus> <> (at

20:17 <MTughan> Yeah, I found it already.

20:19 <zombie67> the other question I need to answer is what is the minimum PSU size

20:19 <MTughan> Found the manual for the Jetway board too, just loading now...

20:20 <MTughan> With an Atom? Provided you don't put a monster GPU in there, I would think a 150W or less would do. Soul_keeper?

20:20 <Soul_keeper> heck probably 100w

20:21 <zombie67> the barebone boxes has 100W PSUs.

20:21 <Soul_keeper> 8watt for the cpu, like 20 or whatever for chipset ....  barely anything

20:21 <zombie67> I want to make SURE that 100w will be enough for a dedicated cruncher

20:22 <Soul_keeper> well if you do like i would and install a 9800 GTX+   for cuda projects :)   that would add an extra 80+ watts

20:22 <zombie67> heh.  that won't fit

20:22 <Soul_keeper> geeze no pcie slot either ...

20:23 <Soul_keeper> best you could get in there would be an 8400 or something that's not worth it

20:23 <zombie67> this will not be a gpu cruncher

20:23 <MTughan> Well, considering the latest BIOS update for the Jetway is "To solve WinPE USB not boot", it'll boot USB.

20:23 <zombie67> good catch!

20:25 <zombie67> the intel manual does not talk about min PSU requirements.

20:25 <MTughan> Because there's not much about them.

20:26 <MTughan> The Atom 330 has a TDP of 8W, not much at all.

20:26 <MTughan>

20:26 <Romulus> <> (at

20:27 <zombie67> So...$154 for BB system, + a 2gb DIMM, + a HD

20:27 <zombie67> so what, a 4 thread 64 bit cruncher for only $200!

20:28 <MTughan> At 1.6GHz.

20:28 <MTughan> 4 thread? It's a dual core.

20:28 <MTughan> Oh, they have HT... Nice!

20:28 <zombie67> yeah, but with a seti opt app, or on abc, or on MW with opt can get 2000/day

20:29 <zombie67> that's better than a Pentium D

20:29 <zombie67> almost as good as a c2d

20:29 <zombie67> for a lot less $ up front, and WAY less $ for power over time.

20:29 <MTughan> My C2Q smacks the snot out of it though. :P

20:30 <MTughan> At a higher cost in power though, true.

20:31 <zombie67> and what was your build cost?

20:31 <MTughan> About $500.

20:31 <MTughan> Not including MB, CPU, or RAM. Those were gifts.

20:32 <zombie67> hah!  so call it $1000.

20:32 <zombie67> you could build *5* of these boxes for that

20:32 <MTughan> I also bought a $330 GPU.

20:32 <zombie67> AND still use less power

20:32 <MTughan> So if I had gone to a lower integrated graphics chipset, it would've lowered the cost by about $400, and lowered the PSU cost.

20:34 <MTughan> So the C2Q cruncher alone could probably go for about $400, not including case or HDDs.

20:34 <MTughan> Both of which can be had for quite cheap.

20:34 <MTughan> BTW, that's $400 CDN.

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20:35 <MTughan> And it'll churn out about 8000-10000 credits/day, depending on the project.

20:36 <MTughan> Just make sure you have some decent cooling...

20:36 <zombie67> thanks for the help

20:37 <MTughan> Anyway, the Atom cruncher sounds intriguing... Not necessarily something I'd go for, but interesting nonetheless.

20:37 <zombie67> i'll keep you posted with how good a cruncher it turns out to be

20:37 <MTughan> All right, sounds good.

20:52 <zombie67> hmmm, and perhaps a SSD!

20:52 <zombie67> lower power consumption, right?

20:52 <xcamel> laterz..

20:52 <zombie67> gn x

20:52 <MTughan> zombie67: Yeah, but much more upfront cost.

20:53 <zombie67> 16gb for $75, vs ~35 for a HD

20:53 <zombie67> how much room do I need for XP or vista?

20:53 <MTughan> Vista requires 40GB.

20:53 <zombie67> oh

20:53 <MTughan> Don't remember how much for XP.

20:53 <Soul_keeper> lol

20:54 <MTughan> Well, it's odd. Vista requires 40GB to install, but takes about 15GB after installation.

20:54 <Soul_keeper> you gotta be kidding ...   yet it don't surprise me

20:54 <zombie67> oh, 64gb is $135

20:54 <MTughan> Linux x64 doesn't require much space.

20:55 <MTughan> Especially if you don't do KDE or GNOME, but something like XFCE. I believe that's smaller.

20:55 <Soul_keeper> yup

20:55 <MTughan> bbiab

21:03 <MTughan> b

21:10 <zombie67> I am going to buy these:

21:10 <zombie67>

21:10 <Romulus> <> (at

21:10 <zombie67>

21:10 <Romulus> <> (at

21:10 <zombie67>

21:10 <Romulus> <> (at

21:11 <zombie67> $215

21:18 <zombie67> opinions?

21:18 <Romulus> opinions are like buttocks: everyone has them, zombie67

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21:20 <MTughan> zombie67: Looks fine to me.

21:23 <zombie67> I am going to buy an external DVD burner, and use that for all future build installs. Also, I could go with smaller/slower memory and HD, but wouldn't save very much.

21:27 <MTughan> I have an external one that was made out of a spare DVD burner and a 5.25" enclosure. Like one you can get for 3.5" hard drives, but with a hole in the side for CD drives.

21:27 <zombie67> nice

21:27 <zombie67> the one I am going to buy will run on USB power, if you have access to two ports

21:28 <MTughan> All right. Mine has a standard computer power plug to power it, and can be daisy-chained off Firewire too.

21:28 <zombie67> $70

21:28 <Romulus> <> (at

21:28 <zombie67> a one-time buy, to never buy one ever again

21:28 <MTughan> You can probably build one for cheaper, but that's not too bad.

21:29 * Rookie_69 can barely afford to build a Wish Sandwich.

21:30 <zombie67> I prefer to spend the ~$20 to have it "just work"

21:36 <efc> Why don't doesn't the postman gets STDs?

21:37 <efc> Because he's only a carrier.

21:40 * Rookie_69 realizes that Eddie is as screwed up as the rest of us.

21:42 <efc> Them's Fightin Words

21:42 <Rookie_69> I said Us, not Them...

21:43 * efc is too enraged to listen to reason now

21:43 <Rookie_69> I guess that's no consolation.

21:43 <efc> &clubtodeath Rookie_69

21:43 <Romulus> efc: Are you daft?

21:43 <Rookie_69> Maybe...

21:44 * Rookie_69 only knows how to duck fish.

21:46 <Rookie_69> Duck eat fish, but duck taste better when they eat grain.

21:47 <Rookie_69> Duck that eat fish taste like fish for some odd reason.

21:49 * Rookie_69 wonders if mom has any duck in the freezer.

21:49 <MTughan> xcamel: DNS changes have propogated to my DNS.

21:51 <Rookie_69> Mom keeps ducks and chickens and geese as pets all summer and then slaughters them... Tasty.

21:52 * Rookie_69 drools on his way to bed.

21:52 <Rookie_69> NN.

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22:10 <MTughan> Oops...

22:10 <Romulus> <> (at

22:10 <MTughan> Downadup strikes again.

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22:30 <efc> Another excuse for a better video card... Poser/Daz

23:08 <efc> I'm not insane. In fact I'm the only Sane one.

23:27 <jasong> Sanity is highly over-rated.

23:27 <jasong> ;)

23:35 <efc> My cherry sledgehammer agrees

23:35 <zombie67> and completely unnecessary

23:56 <jasong> Anybody watching SNL?

23:56 <jasong> I'm on a boat

23:57 <jasong> Makes me want to join to the rap industry

23:57 <jasong> ;)

23:58 <efc> Hehe saw that

23:58 <efc> I can't say it made a lot of sense

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