IRC logs of #boinc for Tuesday, 2009-02-10

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00:53 <efc> moo

00:56 <Tank_Master> hey

01:01 <efc> America... **** Yeah!

01:02 <Tank_Master> lol

01:11 <XioNYC> &roulette

01:11 <Romulus> XioNYC: *click*

01:12 * XioNYC feels better.

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01:46 <efc> &roulette

01:46 <Romulus> *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!

01:46 * Romulus reloads and spins the chambers.

03:12 <XioNYC> &wx LGA

03:12 <Romulus> XioNYC: Temperature: 38F / 3C | Humidity: 65% | Pressure: 30.36in / 1028hPa (Falling) | Conditions: Overcast | Wind Direction: ESE | Wind Speed: 6mph / 9km/h ; Tonight - Increasing clouds. Lows in the lower 30s. South winds around 5 mph.; Tuesday - Mostly cloudy with a chance of light rain or drizzle. Highs in the upper 40s. South winds 5 to 10 mph. Chance of rain 30 percent.; Tuesday Night - (1 more message)

03:12 <XioNYC> &more

03:12 <Romulus> XioNYC: Cloudy with a slight chance of light rain or drizzle. Patchy fog. Lows in the lower 40s. Southwest winds 5 to 10 mph. Chance of rain 20 percent.;

03:12 <XioNYC> &eightball Has winter already finished?

03:12 <Romulus> XioNYC: I doubt it very much.

03:12 <XioNYC> &eightball Will I get the 3 feet of snow I wanted this winter?

03:12 <Romulus> XioNYC: Yes!

03:13 * XioNYC does the happy-dance.

03:17 <efc> &wx 31088

03:18 <Romulus> efc: Temperature: 47F / 8C | Humidity: 99% | Pressure: 30.28in / 1025hPa (Falling) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: SSE | Wind Speed: 4mph / 6km/h ; Today - Mostly cloudy in the morning then becoming partly sunny. Highs in the mid 70s. South winds 10 to 15 mph.; Tonight - Mostly cloudy. Lows in the upper 40s. Southeast winds 5 to 10 mph.; Wednesday - Mostly cloudy with a 40 percent chance of (1 more message)

03:18 <efc> &more

03:18 <Romulus> efc: showers and thunderstorms in the afternoon. Windy. Highs in the mid 70s. South winds 20 to 30 mph.;

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04:07 <CoderForLife> ugh

04:26 <CoderForLife> brb  breakfast

04:55 * KathrynM sighs

04:56 * CoderForLife heaves a sigh as a sign of respect

04:56 <KathrynM> the good new is tuesday is over

04:56 <KathrynM> the bad new is there's still 3 days this week

04:56 <CoderForLife> excellent - endings are as important as beginnings

04:57 <CoderForLife> 5 days makes one weak

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06:06 <CoderForLife> well - about time to pack up and shove off

06:08 <CoderForLife> I'm off (you can say that again)

06:08 <CoderForLife> laterz

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06:38 <hawmps> 'lo

06:45 *** hawmps sets mode: -o hawmps

06:49 <wdsmia> mornin Jay

06:50 <wdsmia> &wx 50319

06:50 <Romulus> wdsmia: Temperature: 48.0F / 8.9C | Humidity: 62% | Pressure: 29.48in / 998.2hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: SW | Wind Speed: 10.0mph / 16.1km/h ; Today - Sunny...breezy. High in the upper 50s. Southwest wind 15 to 25 mph with gusts to around 35 mph decreasing to 10 to 15 mph with gusts to around 25 mph in the afternoon.; Tonight - Partly cloudy in the evening...then mostly (1 more message)

06:50 <wdsmia> &more

06:50 <Romulus> wdsmia: cloudy with a 20 percent chance of rain after midnight. Colder. Low in the mid 30s. Northwest wind 5 to 15 mph. Gusts up to 25 mph after midnight.; Wednesday - Cloudy with a 20 percent chance of light rain and light snow. Breezy...colder. High around 40. Northwest wind 15 to 25 mph with gusts to around 35 mph.; Flood Warning for Polk County in effect until 6:44 AM CST on February 12, 2009;

07:01 <hawmps> 'Lo Doug

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08:04 <hawmps> &wx 12020

08:04 <Romulus> hawmps: Temperature: 18.3F / -7.6C | Humidity: 68% | Pressure: 30.13in / 1020.2hPa (Falling) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: NE | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Today - Mostly cloudy. A slight chance of light rain late this morning...then a chance of light rain this afternoon. Highs in the lower 40s. Southeast winds 5 to 10 mph. Chance of rain 30 percent.; Tonight - Cloudy. A chance of light (1 more message)

08:04 <hawmps> &more

08:04 <Romulus> hawmps: rain in the evening. Patchy fog. Lows in the mid 30s. South winds around 5 mph. Chance of rain 30 percent.; Wednesday - Mostly cloudy. A chance of rain in the afternoon. Highs around 50. South winds 5 to 10 mph. Chance of rain 40 percent.;

08:04 <hawmps> luckily, the ice/ freezing rain missed us..

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10:19 <zombie67> MT?

10:19 <Romulus> Somebody said MT is right, zombie67

10:19 <Soul_keeper> good work

10:22 <hawmps> in school..

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10:54 <zombie67>

10:54 <Romulus> <> (at

11:05 <Soul_keeper> what's that about zombie67  ?

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11:10 <MTughan> zombie67: Just woke up.

11:17 <zombie67> heh.  NM, I figured it out.  Thanks anyway

11:41 * Soul_keeper slaps zombie67

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11:45 <MTughan> zombie67:

11:45 <Romulus> <> (at

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12:13 <Tank_Master> mmmm 8 core goodness

12:13 <Tank_Master> I wish I had an 8 way 8 care server

12:13 <Tank_Master> core*

12:14 <Tank_Master> with 8 geforce 295s

12:15 <MTughan> What massive chipset would you need for 128 PCIe lanes?

12:15 <MTughan> 16 * 8 = 128

12:16 <MTughan> Even X58 would only support up to 64 lanes.

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12:20 <MTughan> Although I suppose you could run each card with only an x8 slot.

12:20 <MTughan> Tank_Master: And how much does 8 GTX 295's cost anyway? :P

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12:23 <MTughan> lol... $500USD each on Newegg.

12:24 <MTughan> So $4000 for the GPUs, maybe another $3500 for the CPU... $500 for an X58 mobo, customized. $8000USD...

12:24 <MTughan> Damn nice computer though.

12:25 <zombie67> which computer?  The power costs would eclipse the cost of the HW in only a hanfful of months

12:26 <MTughan> lol, true.

12:26 <MTughan> That, and don't you need a display hooked up to each GPU for CUDA?

12:27 <MTughan> If so, that makes 16 displays...

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12:36 <zombie67> I have no display hooked up to mine.

12:37 <MTughan> And it's crunching CUDA?

12:37 <MTughan> Actually, that makes sense... I think Windows just needs to have a desktop on the card for CUDA to work.

12:39 <MTughan> My bad... X58 only has 40 PCIe lanes.

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12:52 <jasong> What was the conversion factor for Euros to dollars about 5 years ago?

12:54 <MTughan>

12:54 <Romulus> <> (at

12:54 <jasong> thanks

12:54 <MTughan> Wait, that's not what you want...

12:54 <MTughan> Sorry, looked like a conversion table at first glance.

12:55 <MTughan> <- that is a conversion table.

12:55 <Romulus> <> (at

12:55 <jasong> Yeah, I'm not quite sure how to google the rate that existed 5 years back

12:56 <MTughan> Hmm, seems you can get a CSV table of the data, from which the graph there is plotted...

12:56 <jasong> Looks like it's about the same as it is now

12:57 <jasong> a little more

12:57 * MTughan whistles

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12:57 <MTughan> That is a big table...

12:57 <MTughan> Almost 2600 rows.

12:59 <MTughan> Anyway, I'm gonna have lunch... bbl

13:04 <jasong> I tried to join World Community Grid, but they have a 15-character limit on their passwords.  Makes no sense, but I decided to struggle to change things so that I could join their little club.  After about 45 minutes, I said screw it and gave up

13:05 <jasong> 15-character limit, that's just stupid

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14:12 <MTughan>

14:12 <Romulus> <> (at

14:13 <DerMeister> nice :)

14:24 <Soul_keeper> in a  24:60:60 format time is it  00:00:00  for midnight or  24:00:00    ?

14:24 <MTughan> 00:00:00.

14:25 <Soul_keeper> thanks

14:29 <MTughan> Class time...

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14:29 <MTughan> BTW, got my highest ever total for one day on BOINC yesterday: 15K!

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14:29 <MTughan> wdsmia and xcamel: I don't want to hear any snickering... ;)

14:30 <MTughan> Bye.

14:41 <yoyo[RKN]> moin

14:41 <hawmps> aye

14:50 <FreeLarry58> howdy

14:50 <FreeLarry58> why do i get the feeling this is a fishing game

14:50 <Romulus> <> (at

14:51 <FreeLarry58> and yes it tries to bring in popups

14:53 <FreeLarry58> Soul_keeper the military time 2400 if signing over to a new day and 0000 for start of new logs

14:54 <FreeLarry58> and if using seconds add two more 00 at end

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15:22 <jackygrahamez> what's up?

15:22 <jackygrahamez> &wx 20011

15:22 <Romulus> jackygrahamez: Temperature: 60.0F / 15.6C | Humidity: 59% | Pressure: 30.12in / 1019.9hPa (Falling) | Conditions: Overcast | Wind Direction: WSW | Wind Speed: 3.0mph / 4.8km/h ; This Afternoon - Cloudy. Highs in the upper 50s. Southwest winds around 10 mph.; Tonight - Mostly cloudy. A slight chance of showers in the evening...then a chance of showers after midnight. Lows in the upper 40s. (1 more message)

15:22 <jackygrahamez> &wx 20001

15:22 <Romulus> jackygrahamez: Temperature: 60.0F / 15.6C | Humidity: 59% | Pressure: 30.12in / 1019.9hPa (Falling) | Conditions: Overcast | Wind Direction: WSW | Wind Speed: 3.0mph / 4.8km/h ; This Afternoon - Cloudy. Highs in the upper 50s. Southwest winds around 10 mph.; Tonight - Mostly cloudy. A slight chance of showers in the evening...then a chance of showers after midnight. Lows in the upper 40s. (1 more message)

15:23 <jackygrahamez> &more

15:23 <Romulus> jackygrahamez: Southwest winds 5 to 10 mph. Chance of rain 30 percent.; Wednesday - Mostly cloudy in the morning...then becoming partly sunny. A 20 percent chance of showers. Highs in the upper 60s. Southwest winds 10 to 15 mph.;

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15:52 <xcamel> re-hi

15:53 <xcamel> 60 aint too bad..

15:53 <xcamel> 36F here

15:54 <FreeLarry58> snowing here

15:56 <xcamel> we're getting our month late january thaw..

15:56 <xcamel> in a winter started a month early

15:56 <FreeLarry58> yeah indian spring

15:57 <jasong> Is it my imagination, or are these netsplits coming more often of late?

15:57 <FreeLarry58> not here

15:57 <jasong> oops, didn't scoll the screen first, sorry

15:58 <jasong> thought that had just happened

15:58 <FreeLarry58> lol happens to me also

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16:04 <xcamel> brain fart?

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16:06 * FreeLarry58 for myself that may be impossible - implies having a brain

16:07 <xcamel> oldzheimers?

16:07 <FreeLarry58> humm closer

16:07 <FreeLarry58> ;)

16:10 <MTughan> Soul_keeper: Got a reply from Willy on the forums. Apparently, the daily being later isn't because of the error from before, but because there's more and more hosts, people, and credits being added to BOINC every day.

16:13 <xcamel> got my acera sata card, now to see if it's gonna work...

16:14 <MTughan> Are you doing RAID?

16:16 <xcamel> jbod for the time being

16:17 <MTughan> Hmm, not great news for zombie... Apparently, VIA's Nano bests Intel's Atom at a number of benchmarks.

16:20 <xcamel> bbiab..

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16:20 <MTughan> Wow... The Nano is even faster than a Nehalem for some floating-point.

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16:25 <MTughan> "when it comes to graphics, netbook users have to accept performance compromises. ... In popular application areas such as image handling netbooks suffer from weak performance. Indeed, at times, the netbook chips performed so sluggishly that our testers felt as though they had slipped back to the IT Stone Age."

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16:29 <ergZay> boincmanager even when i have the scientific stuff on standby uses around .5 to 1% of my cpu all the time

16:29 <ergZay> is there any way to reduce this besides quitting the manager entirely?

16:29 <MTughan> Nope.

16:30 <ergZay> whats it doing with that cpu time?

16:30 <ergZay> there is no gui to update

16:30 <ergZay> and besides checking conditions to see if it can start again

16:30 <MTughan> There's a fork of BOINC working to clean up the code and hopefully reduce CPU usage, but for BOINC itself right now, there's nothing to be done.

16:30 <ergZay> is the fork usable yet?

16:30 <MTughan> Well, BOINC is made up of really two parts: a core client, and a graphical manager.

16:31 <ergZay> yea i know

16:31 <MTughan> AFAIK, the core client is fairly good with CPU usage. But the graphical manager is probably the one that's taking lots of CPU, right?

16:31 <MTughan> "lots"

16:31 <ergZay> yea the core client sits at .1 to .2 percentage

16:31 <ergZay> while idle

16:32 <MTughan> I don't think the fork is stable yet, even somewhat stable. It's still classified as an alpha project.

16:33 <ergZay> since i last rebooted 2 days ago with on and off periods of time in there, boincmanager has 14 minutes of used cpu time and boinc itself has about 6 minutes of used cpu time

16:33 <MTughan> Windows?

16:33 <Romulus> Somebody said Windows is not nearly as SHA1 computational friendly as Linux, MTughan

16:33 <ergZay> os x

16:34 <MTughan> Oh, the manager's not even compiling on OS X yet... I'm in charge of that area.

16:34 <ergZay> ah k

16:34 <ergZay> if you compile it with x-windows does the x-windows version of the manager compile?

16:34 <MTughan> There's a strange bug where one method is called, but when debugging, we end up in another function.

16:35 <MTughan> I haven't tried using X with it, and my Mac's currently being replaced by Apple because of hardware failure, so I can't try it out anytime soon.

16:35 <ergZay> ah fun

16:35 <ergZay> what failed out of curiosity and what mac?

16:36 <Tank-Master> the mac phailed

16:36 <ergZay> i have the previous gen macbook pro 17 inch varient

16:36 <ergZay> bought it beginning of summer of 08

16:36 <MTughan> I had a 1st gen white MacBook. Had the motherboard fail three times in 2 years.

16:37 <ergZay> dang

16:37 <MTughan> Bought September '06.

16:37 <ergZay> thats intel for you i guess

16:37 <Tank-Master> no, its abble

16:37 <ergZay> may be part of why they switched to the nvida chipset

16:37 <MTughan> I dunno, my C2Q machine is doing quite well. :D

16:37 <ergZay> nvidia*

16:37 <Tank-Master> intel makes the most stable mobos on earth

16:37 <MTughan> Ah yes, the sh*t GMA950 graphics...

16:37 <ergZay> oh the other thing

16:38 <ergZay> with nvidia releasing those tools to allow computation on the gpu

16:38 <ergZay> boinc would be wonderful to use for that

16:38 <MTughan> It does, but there aren't any libraries for Mac to use that yet. Once there are, it will come to OS X.

16:38 <ergZay> has anyone suggested this or is there any work on it?

16:38 <MTughan>

16:38 <Romulus> Title: GPUGRID (at

16:38 <ergZay> ah

16:38 <ergZay> k

16:39 <ergZay> well i mean more having it in boinc

16:39 <ergZay> and not in a separate project

16:39 <ergZay> for general project use

16:39 <MTughan> BOINC reports the GPU, but projects need special applications to actually use it.

16:40 <MTughan> The only project I know of right now that has both CPU and GPU apps is SETI@home, but other projects are either working on it or looking into it.

16:40 <ergZay> is that how its staying? or can it even change fromt hat?

16:40 <MTughan> That special applications are needed?

16:40 <ergZay> can something like a backend for the gpu use to be made such that its treated like and seen by apps as around 30 slow cpus?

16:41 <ergZay> my knowledge is low in this

16:41 <MTughan> Probably, but that's quite inefficient.

16:41 <ergZay> so im just throwing a guess

16:41 <MTughan> I'm a little iffy on the hardware side, but you also have to think in terms of RAM. Ideally, you load the RAM in the graphics card immediately, then do the computation.

16:42 <MTughan> Not like with a CPU, where you can load some data into RAM, then read some more from a file once that's done with. The bandwidth between the CPU and GPU and the overhead involved is too great.

16:42 <MTughan> From what I understand anyway. Maybe it'll be easier once OpenCL becomes popular, starting with Snow Leopard.

16:43 <ergZay> yea im looking forward to that

16:43 <ergZay> im somewhat curious to how much faster everything in general will get

16:43 <ergZay> especially compared to say windows 7

16:43 * MTughan is running Win7 right now

16:44 <MTughan> Faster than Vista, all I can say right now. :P

16:44 <ergZay> well thats not hard

16:44 <MTughan> lol

16:44 <ergZay> windows xp is faster than vista

16:44 <MTughan> Yep.

16:44 <MTughan> Tiger and Leopard are as well, but at the expense of higher RAM usage.

16:45 <ergZay> yea they do tend to use a lot of ram

16:45 <ergZay> 2GB isnt enough to run safari and other apps concurently with world of warcraft

16:45 <Tank-Master> qin7 is faster than xp on the newer hardware

16:45 <ergZay> which is why i recently got another 2GB for $75

16:45 <Tank-Master> but it can run on older hardware than vista

16:45 <ergZay> everything runs great now

16:46 <MTughan> I never could play games on my Mac, but VMs took up all the RAM easily. The chipset in my MacBook only supported 2GB of RAM though.

16:46 <Tank-Master> thats spendy

16:46 <Tank-Master> I just paid $52 for 4gb

16:46 <MTughan> Yeah, I got 4GB of DDR2-1066 RAM for $100.

16:46 <ergZay> actually it would ahve been $35 for the 4GB

16:46 <Tank-Master> mine is ddr2 800

16:46 <ergZay> (had to toss my two existing 1GB)

16:46 <ergZay> but i forgot to send in the mail in rebate...

16:47 <ergZay> so there you go

16:47 <Tank-Master> lol

16:47 <Tank-Master> I had no mail-in

16:47 <ergZay> yea i could have gotten it for around 50

16:47 <ergZay> as you did

16:47 <MTughan> This machine here has 8GB now, never looked back. Great to be able to run a virtual machine with almost 4GB of RAM and still have plenty of room left over. :P

16:47 <ergZay> but mine would have cost 35

16:47 <ergZay> for 4gb

16:48 <ergZay> 667 mhz DDR2

16:48 <ergZay> im debating about buying vmware fusion

16:48 <ergZay> im about to run out on my trial

16:48 <ergZay> using it with ubuntu and like it a lot

16:48 <MTughan> Try VirtualBox. I think they have a Mac version IIRC.

16:49 <ergZay> vmware fusion integrates sooo nicely in so many ways

16:49 <ergZay> better than i ever expected

16:49 <MTughan> Intel Macs, yep.

16:49 <ergZay> well i mean

16:49 <ergZay> the connection and device forwarding

16:49 <ergZay> and the drag and drop

16:49 <ergZay> in and out of the machine

16:49 <MTughan> No, I meant VirtualBox has a version for Intel Macs. I wasn't commenting on VMware Fusion. :P

16:50 *** wdsmia_w has quit IRC

16:50 <ergZay> i havent tried virtualbox

16:50 <ergZay> so ill have tos ee

16:50 <ergZay> to see*

16:50 <MTughan>

16:50 <Romulus> Title: VirtualBox (at

16:52 <ergZay> its run by sun microsystems?

16:52 <ergZay> is java used for it at all?

16:52 <MTughan> I wounldn't be surprised if it was started by Sun, but there's a version available under GPL.

16:53 <Tank-Master> yes, java is still used somewhat

16:53 <ergZay> for?

16:53 <ergZay> i tend to like to avoid java

16:53 <ergZay> it eats things

16:54 <Tank-Master> same here

16:54 <Tank-Master> and it requiers to meny updates

16:54 <MTughan> Java's all right, but uses too much RAM overall for my tastes.

16:54 <MTughan> And I couldn't say if it's used anymore.

16:55 <Tank-Master> but some remote access programs and VMs offer it as an option

16:55 <CoderForLife> greetings BOINC fans

16:55 <Tank-Master> I havent installed it in years

16:55 <MTughan> Java isn't listed in the requirements for Linux though.

16:55 <MTughan> 'lo CFL

16:55 <CoderForLife> hey Michael

16:55 <Tank-Master> cfl!

16:55 <MTughan>

16:56 <Romulus> <> (at

16:56 <CoderForLife> Tank!

16:56 <Tank-Master> wazz up?

16:56 <CoderForLife> you're a dash!

16:56 <Tank-Master> its finally snowing again here

16:56 <MTughan> Heh, I missed that...

16:56 <Tank-Master> yeah, installed new nic drivers

16:57 <Tank-Master> and win7 didnt ask to reboot :P

16:57 <CoderForLife> wha?  say it ain't so

16:57 <Tank-Master> :)

16:57 <MTughan> ergZay: Java isn't listed as a build requirement for VirtualBox, so I would guess it was used, but not anymore.

16:57 <CoderForLife> 'snot possible Tank-Master

16:57 <Tank-Master> lol

16:58 <Tank-Master> is to

16:58 <CoderForLife> lol

16:58 <MTughan> Video card drivers (if the installers are written properly) don't require restarts either.

16:58 <Tank-Master> yep

17:00 <CoderForLife> "Microsoft has shut off the Windows 7 beta spigot, but will allow users who have started the download process to wrap it up by Thursday."

17:00 <Tank-Master> they have finaly?

17:01 <MTughan> It was extended until today, yep.

17:01 <Tank-Master> not like you cant get it elsewhere though :P

17:01 <CoderForLife> heh

17:01 <Tank-Master> nothing is gonna stopo me from slaping it onto my ftp and share it

17:02 *** DerMeister has quit IRC

17:02 <CoderForLife> the market Tanked today - pardon the expression

17:02 <ergZay> whats new <_<

17:03 <MTughan> CoderForLife: How much? I saw at lunch the Dow was down ~350.

17:03 <CoderForLife> 381.99

17:03 <CoderForLife> NASDAQ -66.83

17:04 <Tank-Master> gee, you men obama isnt this saint that is going to turn the world around?

17:05 <CoderForLife> I got cher turnaround right here...

17:05 <Tank-Master> :P

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17:05 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o xcamel

17:05 <Tank-Master> xcamel!

17:05 <CoderForLife> finally

17:05 <xcamel> re-hi

17:06 <MTughan> Interesting...

17:06 <Romulus> <> (at

17:07 <xcamel> I really need to send this mb to the boneyard...

17:08 <CoderForLife> din-din - bbiab

17:11 <xcamel> btw.. the "-50F" record in maine was made official - beats the 1933 record of -48F

17:11 <Tank-Master> -50 eh?

17:11 <Tank-Master> sounds like its time for icecream

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17:12 <Tank-Master> zombie67!

17:12 <zombie67> heh.  "There's a bug in 6.5.5 that causes debts to not be updated.  Wait for 6.5.6 and see if this problem goes away."

17:12 <zombie67> TM!

17:12 <MTughan> O_O

17:12 <Romulus> <> (at

17:13 <MTughan> In that picture of the Intel board, the fan is not cooling the CPU: it's cooling the northbridge.

17:13 <Tank-Master> :)

17:13 <zombie67> yep

17:14 <jasong> Hey, question: This metaphorical physics wall we're supposed to hit when the transistors reach a certain size, what year is that predicted to happen if nothing is done about it?

17:14 <MTughan> I think it was around the 25nm mark IIRC.

17:14 <Tank-Master> sometime after 2015

17:14 <MTughan> Intel's going 32nm this year.

17:14 <Tank-Master> no, intel has plans for a 14nm

17:14 <jasong> Is that with Moore's Law not being broken?(2015)

17:14 <Tank-Master> or 13, somwhere around there

17:15 <MTughan> Tank-Master: He said "if nothing is done about it"

17:15 <Tank-Master> dunno

17:16 <Tank-Master> but they do expect fiber optic interconnects and several thousand core CPUs

17:16 <MTughan> "Because exotic technologies not based on silicon are expected to become prominent during this node, and at the same time conventional silicon technology is still being pushed to the scaling limits, [16 nm] can be seen as a transition from CMOS to nanoelectronics."

17:16 <Tank-Master> with gigs of cache layered uncer the corese instead of next to them

17:16 <MTughan>

17:17 <Romulus> Title: 16 nanometer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at

17:17 <jasong> during this node(?) wtf is a node?

17:18 <MTughan> I think that just means a process step, like 65nm, 45nm, 32nm, and so on.

17:18 <jasong> ah, ok

17:19 <jasong> It seemed as if Borg terminology might have entered the language when I first read it

17:20 <zombie67> I just realized DA got the version mixed up.  We are on 6.6.5, next will be 6.6.6

17:20 <MTughan> The devil's BOINC! :P

17:21 <MTughan> Expect a major bug in this one. xD

17:21 <zombie67> can't possibly be worse than ever other 6.6.* version to date

17:21 <wdsmia> &wx 50319

17:21 <Romulus> wdsmia: Temperature: 62.7F / 17.1C | Humidity: 37% | Pressure: 29.61in / 1002.6hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Partly Cloudy | Wind Direction: SW | Wind Speed: 2.0mph / 3.2km/h ; Tonight - Partly cloudy in the evening...then mostly cloudy with a 30 percent chance of rain showers after midnight. Colder. Low in the mid 30s. Southeast wind around 5 mph shifting to the north 10 to 15 mph with gusts to (1 more message)

17:21 <wdsmia> &more

17:21 <Romulus> wdsmia: around 25 mph after midnight.; Wednesday - Mostly cloudy. A 20 percent chance of rain in the morning. Colder. High around 40. Northwest wind 10 to 20 mph with gusts to around 30 mph.; Wednesday Night - Partly cloudy. Low in the mid 20s. West wind 10 to 20 mph. Gusts up to 30 mph in the evening.; Flood Warning for Polk County in effect until 1:30 AM CST on February 15, 2009;

17:24 <jasong> lol, what if BOINC is the beast of Revelation?

17:24 <jasong> The implementation of CUDA marks the beginning of the end ;)

17:24 <Tank-Master> :P

17:24 <Tank-Master> its the end of BOIN as we know it

17:25 <Tank-Master> BOINC*

17:25 <jasong> It's been BINC for a while now, as far as I'm concerned

17:26 <Tank-Master> heh, poor sap

17:26 <MTughan>

17:26 <Romulus> Title: 32nm Intel Westmere to hit production in late 2009 - The Tech Report (at

17:26 <Tank-Master> someone though that windows still requiered a floppy to install RAID drivers druning the windows install

17:26 <jasong> I wish I could open a wormhole and travel to a world where David Anderson doesn't think and act like he's God of BOINC

17:27 <Tank-Master> lol

17:28 <jasong> If we're going to have a God of computers, I think we should put Linus Torvalds into that position until an elected party of geeks can discuss and vote on the issue

17:28 * jasong ducks

17:30 <MTughan> Just don't put Steve Ballmer there... He'd throw chairs at all of us. xD

17:30 <Tank-Master> :P

17:31 <Tank-Master> or steve jobs

17:31 <Tank-Master> cus then everything would be over priced, and only his way

17:31 <jasong> To be honest, capitalism is cool, but it seems to be pretty crappy when it comes to Operating Systems

17:31 <yoyo[RKN]> oh oh, its late

17:31 <yoyo[RKN]> &wx sxf

17:31 <MTughan>

17:31 <Romulus> yoyo[RKN]: Temperature: 37°F / 3°C | Humidity: 100% | Pressure: 29.18in / 988hPa | Conditions: Rain | Wind Direction: WSW | Wind Speed: 10mph / 17km/h | Updated: 11:20 PM CET; Chance of Rain. High:39 F.; Chance of Snow. Low:32 F.; Chance of Snow. High:33 F.; Chance of Snow. Low:28 F.; Chance of Snow. High:30 F.; Chance of Snow. Low:28 F.;

17:31 <Romulus> <> (at

17:31 <Tank-Master> yoyo!

17:31 <MTughan> Tank-Master:

17:32 <yoyo[RKN]> Tank-Master is active now, so I can go and sleep

17:32 <Tank-Master> yep

17:33 <CoderForLife> tornado in Oklahoma City

17:33 <Tank-Master> again?

17:34 *** yoyo[RKN] has quit IRC

17:34 <CoderForLife> today at least

17:34 <xcamel> what time?

17:34 <Romulus> hmm... what time is the super bowl thing on, xcamel

17:34 <CoderForLife> 1:51pm CST

17:34 <jasong> lol

17:35 <CoderForLife> multiple funnels

17:35 <jasong> That'd be even funnier if I didn't already know it's a bot

17:35 <CoderForLife> NW of city

17:36 <CoderForLife>

17:36 <Romulus> Title: Video (at

17:36 <CoderForLife> that appears to be live TV radar

17:36 <xcamel> seems to be bad in Edmond

17:37 <CoderForLife> they've zoomed way out

17:37 <CoderForLife> yup

17:37 <CoderForLife> looked like an active vortex signature

17:37 <xcamel> KOCO is pretty jammed up

17:38 *** Nickuwo has joined #boinc

17:38 <CoderForLife> double vortex south of Piedmont

17:38 <CoderForLife> NW of OKC proper

17:39 <MTughan> 'lo Nickuwo

17:39 <Nickuwo> anybody hey MT

17:39 <Nickuwo> whoop

17:39 <MTughan> You know now to make a subtle entrance, that's for sure... :P

17:39 <Nickuwo> -anybody

17:39 <Nickuwo> hehe

17:39 <xcamel> ah.. needed firefox

17:39 <CoderForLife> of course =)

17:40 <CoderForLife> that's some heavy rain

17:40 <xcamel> mitch park?

17:40 <CoderForLife> Piedmont and NE of there

17:40 <Tank-Master> Nickuwo!

17:41 <Nickuwo> Hey Tank!

17:41 <CoderForLife> un-good

17:43 <Tank-Master> hows it goin?

17:43 <CoderForLife> we're expecting up to 55mph gusts tomorrow - the trees all have very wet feet now - may lose some, and some power outages as well

17:43 <CoderForLife> oh the joy of living

17:43 <Tank-Master> snow we had today is just about gone again

17:44 * wdsmia sips a cold beer on the back porch at 63F :)

17:44 <CoderForLife> raining here

17:44 * Tank-Master goes get his cold beer from outside

17:44 <MTughan> &math convert 63 F to C

17:44 <Romulus> MTughan: 17.2222222222

17:44 <xcamel> wow - that got ugly fast..

17:45 <Tank-Master> :)

17:45 <CoderForLife> that's one tough storm

17:46 <CoderForLife> it's amazing how they pulse up and down

17:46 * CoderForLife thinks - like it's alive...

17:46 <xcamel> they "breathe"

17:47 <CoderForLife> I believe it

17:48 <xcamel> one long and complicated elasticity equation

17:48 <CoderForLife> you may have already seen this - doomsday delayed,2933,490546,00.html

17:48 <Romulus> <> (at

17:48 <Tank-Master> just one?

17:49 <CoderForLife> hmm - added safety features...

17:49 <CoderForLife> the microscopic black holes won't drift to the center of the earth?

17:50 <Tank-Master> no

17:50 <Tank-Master> just to the sun

17:50 <CoderForLife> that's safer

17:50 <Tank-Master> yeah

17:50 <Tank-Master> much

17:51 <Tank-Master> itll take us 8 min before we know anything is wrong

17:51 <CoderForLife> and so cheap at $10B

17:51 <Nickuwo> sry Tank - it's goin good, I'm distracted by Ramsey :)

17:51 <Tank-Master> hehe

17:51 <MTughan> That's a good thing to be distracted by. ;)

17:51 <Tank-Master> when am I gonna get my one milion credits? :P

17:51 <Tank-Master> oh, speeking of ramsy

17:51 <MTughan> speaking*

17:52 <Tank-Master> it wasnt till last week I finally got around to detaching from it! :S

17:52 <Nickuwo> hehe

17:53 * CoderForLife closes

17:53 <xcamel> looked pretty wild...

17:54 <MTughan> "Motivate++" lol

17:54 <MTughan>

17:54 <CoderForLife> indeed

17:54 <Romulus> <> (at

17:54 <Nickuwo> hehe

17:56 *** diii has left #boinc

17:56 <Tank-Master>

17:56 <Romulus> <> (at

17:57 <MTughan> Yep, saw it already. Just like their current Dominator series.

17:57 <Tank-Master> though I wish it covered all 6 slots

17:57 <MTughan> I doubt they could fit two fans though if it was that wide.

17:58 <Tank-Master> biger fans

17:58 <Tank-Master> shure they could

17:58 <Tank-Master> might stik over the edge, but thats fine

18:01 <xcamel>

18:01 <Romulus> Title: YouTube - The CERN black hole (at

18:02 *** zombie_67 has joined #boinc

18:02 <xcamel> Hmmm... >> Nude Sushi Restaurant Proposed Downtown (Baltimore)

18:03 <Nickuwo> awesome

18:03 <Tank-Master> what a crappy animation

18:03 <xcamel> so make a better one...

18:04 <xcamel> I thought there would be a little sign at the end...

18:04 <xcamel> "Thanks for all the fish..."

18:04 <CoderForLife> I'd need a black hole to make a more realistic one

18:04 <CoderForLife> I'd have problems with the camera angle

18:05 <xcamel> woah doggy... >> Winklevoss twins made $65 million on Facebook “copycat” settlement

18:05 <xcamel> ConnectU vs FaceBook

18:05 <CoderForLife> I need a bailout

18:05 <Tank-Master> o0

18:05 <xcamel> the wank-spanker twins won...

18:06 <MTughan> CoderForLife: You've said that numerous times now.

18:06 <Tank-Master> lol

18:06 <xcamel> I'll be damned.

18:06 * MTughan looked through some of the BOINC logs yesterday looking for an efc quote saying he has to get some of this bailout

18:06 <MTughan> I'm wondering if it was CFL now... xD

18:07 <Tank-Master> probably

18:07 <CoderForLife> I think if I keep putting up my hand someone who can do something about it might see it

18:07 <Tank-Master> lol

18:08 <CoderForLife> before I was born, they where handing out noses, and I thought they said roses, and I said I wanted a big red one

18:08 <CoderForLife> were*

18:08 <Tank-Master> LOL

18:09 *** zombie67 has quit IRC

18:09 <CoderForLife> then there was the time with the passes...

18:09 <CoderForLife> or so I thought

18:11 <CoderForLife> OK - nuf phun here - to the Couch to write some Code

18:11 <Tank-Master> hf

18:11 <CoderForLife> bb from there

18:16 <xcamel> and it came to pass...that in such lands there was a great miracle..

18:19 <Soul_keeper>

18:30 *** CoderOnTheCouch has joined #boinc

18:31 <CoderOnTheCouch> cease your weaping, I have returned

18:31 <CoderOnTheCouch> oh, it's just wdsmia with a runny nose

18:32 * CoderOnTheCouch readies his trout shield

18:33 * Tank-Master slaps CoderForLife with a pigfish

18:35 <Soul_keeper> CoderForLife,    up to 1500 lines of code now ...

18:35 * CoderOnTheCouch smiles with satisfaction - picking on the other nick has no effect

18:35 <CoderOnTheCouch> looking Soul_keeper

18:35 * MTughan slaps CoderOnTheCouch with Tank-Master's pigfish

18:36 <MTughan> WTH is a pigfish anyways?

18:36 <CoderOnTheCouch> you're a graph Coding machine, Soul_keeper

18:36 <Soul_keeper> :)

18:36 <Tank-Master> its a dep sea fish

18:37 <Tank-Master> wiki it

18:37 <MTughan> Huh, there is an actual fish called a red pigfish... Imagine that.

18:37 <Tank-Master> :P

18:37 <MTughan> I thought it was like your lampfishes.

18:37 <MTughan> :P

18:37 * CoderOnTheCouch puts the pigfish on a wiki, and turns it slowly over an open fire

18:37 * Tank-Master tries to slap MTughan with a butterfish, but it melted in his hands

18:38 <CoderOnTheCouch> I smell bacon

18:38 <Tank-Master> :D

18:38 <xcamel> beggin strips?

18:38 <MTughan> Does it taste like chicken?

18:38 <Tank-Master> what doenst?

18:38 <Tank-Master> its all the matrix knows

18:39 <MTughan> Salmon.

18:39 <xcamel> which is better... core 2 quad, or core 2 extreme @ 4ghz?

18:39 <Tank-Master> theres a different?

18:39 <MTughan> For value? Core 2 Quad. Performance? Probably the C2E.

18:39 <Tank-Master> probably whichever has the higher fsb

18:39 <MTughan> Depends what C2Q.

18:39 <Tank-Master> yeah

18:40 <Tank-Master> it depends man

18:40 <xcamel> Q9550 vs QX9770

18:40 <MTughan> But a C2E will never beat a C2Q for value, not at the prices Intel charges.

18:40 <xcamel> just for raw boinc output..

18:41 <MTughan> The C2E comes OC'd to 4GHz?

18:41 <xcamel> or maybe a xenon quad...

18:41 <jasong> Depends on how you define value, are we assuming it'll be used for DCing stuff?

18:41 <Tank-Master> you hca get the qx6700 EE for $350

18:41 <Tank-Master> canU

18:41 <xcamel> maybe an i7

18:42 <MTughan> C2E compared to Ci7? I'd probably go to the i7.

18:42 <Tank-Master> i7

18:42 <Tank-Master> defently

18:43 <xcamel> looking at this little animal...

18:43 <xcamel>

18:43 <Romulus> <> (at

18:43 <MTughan> "A Core i7 940 system running at stock speeds has obtained a 3DMark Vantage benchmark CPU score of 17,966.[18] A Core i7 920 system scored 16,294 running at stock speeds. An Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9770 scored 13,182 also running at stock speeds."

18:44 <MTughan> You put a C2E in there, that's going to be one expensive comp...

18:45 <Tank-Master> huh, I have 9 unread messages after several weeks of not lookins

18:45 <MTughan> I get about $3600, just upgrading the proc and the OS to 64-bit.

18:45 <Tank-Master> inbox (1101)

18:46 <Tank-Master> or not, thats not 9

18:46 <Tank-Master> 13 unread

18:46 <Tank-Master> right

18:46 <Tank-Master> ?

18:48 <xcamel> my twins (pete and repete) are C2Q running F7 and really crank out the bits as it were..

18:48 <xcamel> the little shuttle boxes are very quiet too

18:48 <MTughan> Heh, I named my computers after a LEGO series...

18:48 <Tank-Master> lol

18:49 <MTughan> Gives me lots of names to play with at least... :P

18:49 <xcamel> boincstats frakked again?

18:49 <MTughan> Hmm?

18:49 <xcamel> not connecting

18:50 <MTughan> I got a connection, but doesn't seem like I'm getting a response...

18:50 <MTughan> Nope, it went through.

18:52 <xcamel>

18:52 <Romulus> <> (at

18:52 <xcamel> yeah.. it took a minute

18:53 <Tank-Master> wow, that is slow

18:54 <MTughan> Yeah, been slow lately... Apparently, the daily's getting delayed each day because it takes longer and longer to process all the stats, and he only had enough HDD space for 8 day's backups.

18:54 <MTughan> has*

18:55 <MTughan> xcamel: Which ones are pete and unpete?

18:55 <MTughan> repete*

18:55 <xcamel> I need to sit down and tweak repeat to catch up with pete

18:55 <MTughan> 2 and 7?

18:56 <xcamel> yes

18:56 <MTughan> Or 11?

18:56 <xcamel> repete blew a drive

18:56 <MTughan> Ah... Ouch.

18:56 <xcamel> seagate replaced it no questions...

18:57 <xcamel> which was nice..

18:57 <MTughan> Yeah.

18:57 <xcamel> I need to merge  7 & 11 - that's the problem...

18:57 <MTughan> Oops... I better go to dinner before it's too later. bbl

18:57 <MTughan> late*

18:57 <jasong> Yeah, that's annoying.  When your main system loses data, you feel validated for backing stuff up, but when the BACKUP system busts a drive, that's just annoying.

18:58 <xcamel> ya think?

18:58 <jasong> It's the same difference, but humanity was not made for logical thought

18:59 <jasong> That's why women are higher lifeforms, we're made to survive, not consider things rationally

18:59 <jasong> errr, they're made to...

19:00 <jasong> I've always felt like women exist so the race will survive, men exist so the existence won't be Godawful boring

19:04 *** zombie_67 has quit IRC

19:07 <xcamel> If women ran the planet, we would have been nuked long ago...

19:08 <jasong> If women ran the planet, irc wouldn't exist and commerce would be a shadow of what it is now

19:09 <jasong> My mother thinks that me and my friend aren't being good friends if we don't look at each other and flap our gums every second

19:10 <jasong> Apparenlty, they think male bonding rituals are just something that we make up to piss them off or confuse them

19:10 * jasong apologizes to Kathy if she happens to see this

19:11 <jasong> For the love of God, don't use her handle for a few screens

19:13 <Tank-Master> :)

19:14 <jasong> It's like I tell people, women are best problem you'll ever stress out over.

19:14 <jasong> +the

19:16 <KathrynM> I love you all too

19:18 <jasong> :)

19:35 *** siofwolves has quit IRC

19:40 * CoderOnTheCouch looks back in

19:40 <CoderOnTheCouch> ah  caught

19:40 <Tank-Master> :)

19:55 <CoderOnTheCouch> &wx 45140

19:55 <Romulus> CoderOnTheCouch: Temperature: 52.8F / 11.6C | Humidity: 94% | Pressure: 29.93in / 1013.4hPa (Steady) | Conditions: Light Rain | Wind Direction: South | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Tonight - Cloudy. Showers likely this evening...then showers after midnight. Lows in the lower 50s. South winds 10 to 15 mph. Chance of rain 90 percent.; Wednesday - Showers and scattered thunderstorms in the (2 more messages)

19:55 <CoderOnTheCouch> &more

19:55 <Romulus> CoderOnTheCouch: morning... then showers and thunderstorms in the afternoon. Some thunderstorms may be severe in the afternoon. Locally heavy rainfall possible in the afternoon. Windy with highs in the lower 60s. South winds 20 to 30 mph. Gusts up to 40 mph...increasing to 60 mph in the afternoon. Chance of rain 100 percent.; Wednesday Night - Mostly cloudy. Showers and thunderstorms likely in the (1 more message)

19:55 <CoderOnTheCouch> &more

19:55 <Romulus> CoderOnTheCouch: evening...then a chance of showers after midnight. Some thunderstorms may be severe. Windy and much colder with lows in the mid 30s. West winds 20 to 30 mph. Gusts up to 60 mph... decreasing to 50 mph after midnight. Chance of rain 70 percent.; High Wind Warning, High Wind Watch for Hamilton County in effect until 7:00 AM EST on February 12, 2009;

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20:00 <FreeLarry58> &wx 98366

20:00 <Romulus> FreeLarry58: Temperature: 32F / 0C | Humidity: 87% | Pressure: 29.82in / 1010hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Overcast | Wind Direction: North | Wind Speed: 0mph / 0km/h ; Tonight - Snow...decreasing late this evening. Snow accumulations 1 to 3 inches. Lows in the upper 20s to mid 30s. Southeast wind 10 to 15 mph decreasing to 10 mph or less after midnight.; Wednesday - Partly sunny. A chance of light (1 more message)

20:00 <FreeLarry58> &more

20:00 <Romulus> FreeLarry58: snow in the morning. Highs in the lower 40s. Light wind.; Wednesday Night - Mostly cloudy. Lows in the upper 20s to mid 30s. North wind near 10 mph in the evening becoming light.; Winter Weather Advisory for Kitsap County in effect until 10:00 PM PST on February 10, 2009;

20:00 <FreeLarry58> ugg so the 4 inches in yard will still be there tomorrow

20:02 <FreeLarry58> uh oh i see one machine dling some windows updates

20:03 * FreeLarry58 looking forward to two days of vista crashing again - not

20:08 <xcamel> sometimes I'm a dumbass

20:08 <CoderOnTheCouch> nah

20:08 <xcamel> the controller was pci-x

20:08 <xcamel>

20:08 <CoderOnTheCouch> you're merely misinformed

20:08 <Romulus> <> (at

20:08 <xcamel>

20:08 <Romulus> <> (at

20:09 <CoderOnTheCouch> bbiab

20:09 <xcamel> need straight PCI

20:09 <MTughan> xcamel: Oops, nice.

20:09 <MTughan> Yes, PCI-Express, PCI-X, and PCI are all different ports...

20:09 *** efc has joined #boinc

20:09 <MTughan> 'lo efc

20:09 <efc> moo

20:09 <MTughan> <xcamel> sometimes I'm a dumbass

20:09 <MTughan> <xcamel> the controller was pci-x

20:10 <MTughan> <xcamel> need straight PCI

20:10 <xcamel> oh - big race this weekend - a bunch of guys dressed in pink driving little clown cars in a circle...

20:10 <MTughan> Nascar?

20:10 <xcamel> it's the Gaytona 500

20:10 <xcamel> :-/

20:11 <efc> They dare not try stuff like that around here

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20:28 <xcamel> yeah.. it's a lousy joke..

20:29 <CoderOnTheCouch>

20:29 <Romulus> Title: YouTube - Jeff Dunham and Bubba J (at

20:45 * jasong is thrilled by the fact that,"I don't do Windows." has a double-meaning in his case.(maybe a little too thrilled)

20:47 <jasong> I need something meaningful in my life, somewhere between Runescape and a full-time job on the meaningfullness scale

20:48 <jasong> is there any type of troll that fits between those two datapoints?

20:49 <jasong> I've considered posting Youtube comments, but that's like halfway between Runescape and absolutely worthless

20:49 *** Eythan has quit IRC

20:50 <jasong> Also, while I thoroughly enjoy Linux, I can't convince people that I'm better than them, my logic is beyond them

20:53 <jasong> If I knew R.D. Silverman would still be on Mersenne Forum in 5 years, I could start improving my math knowledge now so that I could totally destroy him in January 2014, but there's no way of predicting what will happen

20:56 <jasong> I've come to the conclusion that my best bet is to study and emulate the lives of Obama and Al Gore, but I haven't been able to find anyone willing to perform a lobotomy so I can think like them

20:57 * CoderOnTheCouch pulls the plug on Tuesday

20:57 <CoderOnTheCouch> gn

20:57 *** CoderOnTheCouch has quit IRC

20:57 <xcamel> jas - that would take a complete brain-ectomy

21:01 <xcamel> &wx 12074

21:01 <Romulus> xcamel: Temperature: 36.4F / 2.4C | Humidity: 79% | Pressure: 30.11in / 1019.5hPa (Falling) | Conditions: Overcast | Wind Direction: SE | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Tonight - Mostly cloudy. Patchy dense fog. Lows in the mid 30s. South winds 5 to 10 mph.; Wednesday - Mostly cloudy. A chance of rain in the afternoon. Highs around 50. Southeast winds around 5 mph. Chance of rain 30 percent.; (1 more message)

21:01 <xcamel> &more

21:01 <Romulus> xcamel: Wednesday Night - Rain in the evening...then showers after midnight. Lows around 40. Southeast winds around 5 mph. Chance of rain 90 percent.;

21:01 <xcamel> rain or no  - that will be nice..

21:01 <MTughan> &wx YOW

21:01 <Romulus> MTughan: Temperature: 23°F / -5°C | Humidity: 74% | Pressure: 29.92in / 1013hPa | Conditions: Overcast | Wind Direction: East | Wind Speed: 5mph / 7km/h | Updated: 8:00 PM EST; Tonight - Cloudy. 60 percent chance of freezing drizzle early this evening. Wind east 20 km/h (12 mph) becoming light this evening. Temperature rising to 6C(43F) by morning.; Wednesday - Cloudy. Periods of rain beginning (1 more message)

21:02 <MTughan> &more

21:02 <Romulus> MTughan: late in the day. High 9C(48F). Wednesday night periods of rain. Low 4C(39F).; Thursday - Rain showers or flurries. High 4C(39F).;

21:02 <MTughan> Talk about warming up...

21:02 <MTughan> &wx K1S 5B7

21:02 <Romulus> MTughan: Temperature: 23°F / -5°C | Humidity: 93% | Pressure: 29.93in / 1014hPa | Conditions: Overcast | Wind Direction: East | Wind Speed: 5mph / 7km/h | Updated: 8:00 PM EST; Tonight - Cloudy. 60 percent chance of freezing drizzle early this evening. Wind east 20 km/h (12 mph) becoming light this evening. Temperature rising to 6C(43F) by morning.; Wednesday - Cloudy. Periods of rain beginning (1 more message)

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21:52 <xcamel>

21:52 <Romulus> <> (at

21:56 <FreeLarry58> humm roomba for golf course - why not home lawns

21:56 <xcamel> nytol..

21:56 <FreeLarry58> &nn xcamel

21:56 <Romulus> Live long and crunch!

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