IRC logs of #boinc for Thursday, 2009-02-26

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00:19 <MTughan> rofl... 2/26/2009 12:19:33 AM||[error] Proposed work request 30377361.167049 bigger than max 349059.490560

00:20 <MTughan> MW's doing too much work.

00:26 <MTughan> What the... I just looked in my client_state.xml file, to check STD and LTD for my two projects, and noticed something:

00:26 <MTughan> There's a <accelerators> tag that contains the name of my GPU.

00:27 <jasong> Hey, zombie67, is Atom a good investment as a cruncher?  I don't have to pay for electricity here, but heat is a concern.  I guess that's my biggest concern in terms of upgrades, high crunch to emitted heat ratio

00:28 <jasong> Anybody can answer that even though I said it to zombie :)

00:28 <MTughan> I think that's what he's experimenting with. For 1.6GHz, and 4 threads at once, it seems like it won't be that bad of a cruncher.

00:28 <MTughan> Considering the TDP of an Atom.

00:28 <jasong> So hyperthreading is back?

00:28 <MTughan> In both the Atom and the i7...

00:29 <jasong> wow, not sure how I feel about that

00:29 <MTughan> Core i7 is a quad-core, but Windows sees it as 8 CPUs, and will run 8 threads on it.

00:33 <jasong> Looks like the centos people like for people to use up their bandwidth, there's no obvious link to a torrent

00:33 <Soul_keeper> an underclocked c2d beats an atom in every way

00:34 <Soul_keeper> even power consumption

00:34 <jasong> What about an uderclocked c2q

00:34 <jasong> ?

00:34 <Soul_keeper> that'd be good too

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00:34 <jasong> I'd love to get extra power without turning my room into a sauna

00:35 <jasong> Is it possible to reduce the wattage and simultaneously get more crunching per watt?

00:35 * jasong is dumb when it comes to this

00:35 <Soul_keeper> they are pretty much proportional

00:36 <Soul_keeper> assuming the same process technology

00:36 <MTughan> No, not quite.

00:36 <jasong> lol, so it's better just to get the most crunching per watt under normal settings, huh?

00:36 <MTughan> Underclocking, it's linear.

00:36 <MTughan> Undervolting will increase efficiency.

00:36 <jasong> ah, asked the wrong question

00:36 <MTughan> Even if you have to underclock to undervolt.

00:36 <Soul_keeper> if you say so

00:37 <MTughan> Soul_keeper: Even Intel says that voltage has a squared relationship to power usage.

00:37 <jasong> Yeah, I've heard of people doing that to get extra battery time from Turions

00:37 <MTughan> If you increase the voltage by 10%, you increase the power usage by 21%.

00:37 <MTughan> 1.1 * 1.1 = 1.21

00:37 <Soul_keeper> i really don't care, all i know is if you want more power you're going to get more watts, and yes the leakage increase substantially with voltage/heat

00:37 <jasong> So it's a squared proportion?

00:38 <MTughan> Yes, if you want more power, you get more watts.

00:38 <MTughan> But jasong asked "more crunching per watt".

00:39 <jasong> I realize there are two different conversations going on here, in a sense, but I think MT has put me on the right track :)

00:39 <efc> Since the cpu power is only a part of the system, you'd have to find the sweet spot somehow

00:40 <jasong> Yes, that's definitely a concern, since everything involved uses power and gives off heat

00:41 <jasong> Does anyone know about intelligent window air conditioners that notice the temperature?

00:41 <Soul_keeper> when intel says such things they are mostly talking about the upper limits of a particular core/tech

00:41 <jasong> My dad doesn't approve of my hobby, so he's intentionally dense when I talk to him

00:42 <jasong> (he doesn't care about the electricity, he just thinks I'm an idiot for having this particular hobby

00:42 <efc> Intelligent?

00:42 <jasong> I mean an air conditioner that can turn on and off depending on the temperature in the room

00:43 <jasong> It would also be nice if it changed things according to the temperature of outside air

00:43 <zombie67> back

00:43 <jasong> My present air conditioner doesn't have any AI at all

00:44 <jasong> It's basically set and pay careful attention to, or else you'll have an uninhabitable room

00:44 <efc> Like a thermostat?

00:44 <efc> I thought they usually had those, even window units

00:45 <jasong> Well, I don't know anything at all about it, so the idea of researching it is rather daunting

00:47 <jasong> (I was involved in Find-a-Drug for months before I knew enough to feel confident to research it.  I majorly fear change, it's in my mental make-up)

00:47 <jasong> it being DCing

00:47 <jasong> (first it)

00:47 <efc> Need help finding a thermostat?

00:48 <jasong> Actually, I was hoping someone could give me some basic guidelines on how to figure out the right thing to get, since people are smarter than any search engine

00:49 <efc> A thermostat isn't really smart.. its just a temperature controlled siwtch

00:49 <efc> Unless yours is very old I'd expect it to have one

00:49 <efc> Usually on a window unit, they'll turn off the compressor but not the fan

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00:49 <efc> so its always going but not always actually cooling

00:51 <jasong> Okay, I'm going to sound like an idiot now, but the biggest problem is that the fan can't be told to turn off and on according to a setting, it has to be manually adjusted.  I hate that fact with a passion since the temperature outside can change rather quickly without me knowing

00:52 <jasong> If it's warmer than I want it to be outside, it's set and forget, but cold days are a PITA

00:52 <jasong> If it's warmer outside than I want it in my room, I mean

00:55 <jasong> If I may ask a silly question, how do rpms work?

00:56 <jasong> I clicked to download an x86_64 Linux installer dvd iso, and all I'm seeing are some very small rpm files

00:56 <MTughan> RPMs as in the measurement unit, or the package manager?

00:57 <jasong> I think maybe the website might just be set up badly

00:57 <MTughan> I'm not sure of their exact structure, but I believe they just contain the software, either compiled or the source to be compiled, along with a list of dependencies.

00:57 <MTughan> That's just a guess off of my experience with them though, I've never done any research into it.

01:00 <jasong> Yeah, the website sucks, that's what caused my confusion

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01:18 <MTughan> Uh oh... BOINC just tried to cram my whole MW cache of 48 WUs through the GPU at once... Seems to have stalled all of them.

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01:33 <jasong> Off-topic for BOINC, but I've been thinking about this whole economic stimulus thing.  What if, instead of simple money being given to the banks, they gave a restricted sort of voucher to American citizens(or Europeans for the European government)?  It would be the same as cash as long as (1) you spent it within a given amount of time, and (2) you spent it on stuff that you'd want during a thriving economy

01:34 <jasong> So it would basically be free money that you would HAVE to spend as mad money

01:34 <jasong> I mean, the whole idea of using taxes to boost the economy is stupid, but if they insist on doing, I'm sure we need it more than the bankers

01:35 <efc> The whole thing seems like a decent into insanity..

01:36 <MTughan> descent*

01:36 <efc> Thats quite banana of you, MTughan

01:36 <MTughan> Well a descent into insanity isn't decent. ;)

01:36 <efc> Galoshes galore, Starwberry Bangalore!

01:51 <jasong> There are over 1000 people in #linux :eek:

01:58 <jasong> I think I need to go to bed.  If I'm not up when CentOS finishes downloading I won't be tempted to install it in the wee(Good Lord, my first attempt came out Wii) hours of the morning

01:58 <efc> Au repetoire

01:59 <MTughan> I'm off to bed too. 2AM, and I've finally gotten BOINC running ABC and MW just how I'd like it.

01:59 <MTughan> I wish we could assign cores to projects...

02:00 <jasong> Yes, MT, but that makes sense, so it won't happen

02:00 <MTughan> lol

02:01 <jasong> Remember, the difference between truth and fiction is that fiction has to make sense

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03:05 <jasong> If something is going to be out by 2010, does that mean the latest it will be out is January 1st, 2011, or January 1st, 2010?

03:05 <jasong> Sorry for being dense, I just want to make sure I'm understanding what I'm reading

03:06 <desti_T2> 31. dec 2010

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03:09 <efc> Usually that kind of thing is a lie anyway

03:32 <ELGono> jasong: it depends on wich calendar you count

03:33 <ELGono> actually we're beyong 2010 .... catholic curch added a few years

03:54 <XioNYC> &wx LGA

03:54 <Romulus> XioNYC: Temperature: 35F / 2C | Humidity: 61% | Pressure: 30.35in / 1028hPa (Steady) | Conditions: Scattered Clouds | Wind Direction: SSW | Wind Speed: 7mph / 11km/h ; Tonight - Partly cloudy early...then becoming mostly cloudy. Lows in the lower 30s. South winds 5 to 10 mph.; Thursday - Mostly cloudy in the morning...then becoming partly sunny. Highs in the upper 40s. Southwest winds 5 to 10 (1 more message)

03:54 <XioNYC> &more

03:54 <Romulus> XioNYC: mph.; Thursday Night - Partly cloudy in the evening...then becoming mostly cloudy. Lows around 40. South winds 5 to 10 mph.;

03:57 <ELGono> &weather meiningen,germany

03:57 <Romulus> ELGono: Temperature: 32°F / 0°C | Humidity: 93% | Pressure: 30.04in / 1017hPa | Conditions: Light Snow | Wind Direction: WSW | Wind Speed: 17mph / 28km/h | Updated: 9:50 AM CET; Chance of Snow. High:39 F.; Chance of Rain. Low:33 F.; Chance of Snow. High:39 F.; Chance of Rain. Low:37 F.; Chance of Rain. High:44 F.; Chance of Rain. Low:33 F.;

03:58 <ELGono> snow rain snow rain.... when will this end

03:59 <XioNYC> When the temperature is above the dew point.

04:00 <efc> &wx 31088

04:00 <Romulus> efc: Temperature: 49F / 9C | Humidity: 89% | Pressure: 30.30in / 1026hPa (Steady) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: SE | Wind Speed: 5mph / 7km/h ; Rest of Tonight - Mostly cloudy. Lows in the mid 40s. Light and variable winds.; Thursday - Partly sunny. Highs in the upper 60s. South winds 5 to 15 mph.; Thursday Night - Mostly cloudy. Lows in the upper 40s. Light southeast winds.;

04:00 <ELGono> that sounds nice ed

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04:27 <CoderForLife> &wx 45140

04:27 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Temperature: 46.5F / 8.1C | Humidity: 82% | Pressure: 30.12in / 1019.9hPa (Falling) | Conditions: Overcast | Wind Direction: SSW | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Today - Cloudy with a 20 percent chance of showers...mainly late. Highs in the lower 60s. South winds 10 to 15 mph with gusts up to 30 mph.; Tonight - Occasional showers...a chance of thunderstorms after midnight. Breezy (1 more message)

04:27 <CoderForLife> &more

04:27 <Romulus> CoderForLife: with lows in the upper 40s. South winds 15 to 25 mph. Chance of rain 100 percent.; Friday - Mostly cloudy. Showers likely in the morning. Colder. Near steady temperatures in the upper 40s. West winds 15 to 20 mph...becoming northwest 10 to 15 mph in the afternoon. Chance of rain 70 percent.;

04:42 <ELGono> root@g094:/# uptime

04:42 <ELGono> 10:42am  up 326 days,  2:18,  1 user,

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04:45 <CoderForLife> brb  breakfast

04:52 <CoderForLife> b

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05:10 <ELGono> wow

05:10 <Romulus> <> (at

05:10 <ELGono> this is a pretty cool design ;:)

05:11 * CoderForLife clicks

05:11 <CoderForLife> meh

05:12 <ELGono> think it's only for blind-typers

05:13 <CoderForLife> oh

05:13 <ELGono> don't think you can see first 3 rows of keyboard when typing like shown on the pic

05:13 <ELGono> but it does look fancy

05:26 <CoderForLife> time to get ready for w@#% - bbiab

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05:42 *** ChanServ sets mode: +ooo xcamel hawmps CoderForLife

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05:45 *** xcamel sets mode: -o CoderForLife

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06:11 <CoderForLife> b

06:11 <CoderForLife> off to w@#%

06:11 <CoderForLife> laterz

06:38 <hawmps> 'mornin

06:59 <ELGono> moo jay

07:11 <hawmps> 'lo ElG

07:25 <ELGono> wondering about german news

07:25 <ELGono> real interesting themes missing

07:26 <ELGono> looks like german media switched on "softener washing programm"

07:27 <hawmps> got mt 6.6.11 - and it seems to be working fine..

07:27 <ELGono> coool

07:27 <hawmps> and it's trying to get work all by itself..

07:27 <ELGono> just this morning i thougt, i really need a working linux box in my flat again

07:27 <hawmps> indeed

07:27 <ELGono> just have some servers

07:27 <hawmps> more heat..

07:28 <ELGono> :)

07:28 <ELGono> i already have a 2kWh (24/7) avarage

07:29 <ELGono> wich must be wrong... began to check myself with an electricity meter

07:29 <ELGono> last week

07:29 <ELGono> 80 / month ...

07:29 <ELGono> for a 3 room flat

07:29 <ELGono> just electricity... thats way to mucho

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09:19 <PovAdct_w> a Sun engineer discovered shouting at hard disks makes them slower

09:21 <wdsmia_w> how about swearing at them?

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09:22 <PovAdct_w> if you're loud...

09:23 <PovAdct_w> vibration causes a latency peak on the disk

09:23 <PovAdct_w> the video also shows something else

09:23 <PovAdct_w> being in a data center for so long, lacking sleep, makes you go so mad you start shouting at disks and doing stupid experiments like that :P

09:24 <wdsmia_w> been there done it

09:24 <PovAdct_w>

09:24 <Romulus> Title: YouTube - Shouting in the Datacenter (at

09:24 <PovAdct_w> "

09:24 <PovAdct_w> Poor disks they were just scared.

09:24 <PovAdct_w> "

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09:43 <Tank_Master> lol

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09:52 <hawmps> they will explode at around 24,000 rpm.

10:40 <PovAdct_w> I badly need a zipfs for Windows

10:41 <PovAdct_w> to mount zip files without having to fully extract it first

10:41 <PovAdct_w> I'd write one based on WinFUSE... but WinFUSE is .NET, and I don't know .NET

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11:30 <ELGono> for all linux dudes ...

11:30 <Romulus> <> (at

11:30 <MTughan> Yeah, I saw that...

11:32 <ELGono> i don't understand, why they don't split it in two versions like a lite and full

11:33 <MTughan> What would lite be?

11:33 <ELGono> maybe some performance optimized less feature supporting version

11:34 <ELGono> even on windows it's feels slow

11:34 <ELGono> but maybe i just have too many tasks open

11:35 <ELGono> err tabs

11:35 <MTughan> They're also using 3.0.6. FF 3.1 has a lot of performance optimizations, so I would've been more interested in them comparing 3.1b2 on either platform.

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11:59 <PovAdct_w> FF linux really does suck in performance

12:01 <jackygrahamez> Hi PovAdct_w

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12:49 <Soul_keeper> HA !!!

12:49 <Soul_keeper> lsnet in C is fully functional now

12:50 <Soul_keeper> counting comments  3400 lines of code :)

12:51 <Soul_keeper> PovAdct_w, FF is great, dunno what you did wrong ...

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14:29 <yoyo[RKN]> moin

14:29 <yoyo[RKN]> &wx sxf

14:29 <Romulus> yoyo[RKN]: Temperature: 41°F / 5°C | Humidity: 87% | Pressure: 29.77in / 1008hPa | Conditions: Rain | Wind Direction: WSW | Wind Speed: 17mph / 28km/h | Updated: 8:20 PM CET; Chance of Rain. High:44 F.; Chance of Rain. Low:37 F.; Chance of Rain. High:42 F.; Chance of Rain. Low:33 F.; Chance of Rain. High:48 F.; Chance of Rain. Low:39 F.;

14:30 <yoyo[RKN]> is the mothership@home project sleeping?

14:34 <hawmps> btw -- 6.6.11 is stable, and it looks like the workfetch is fixed, but you might have to reset your projects to clear the LTD

14:36 <Soul_keeper>

14:36 <Romulus> Title: Lsnet Stats 0.3.0 (at

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15:44 <jackygrahamez> why does office 07 suck so much?

15:45 <jackygrahamez> oh hey yoyo

15:45 <jackygrahamez> we got some stuff in the pipeline

15:46 <jackygrahamez> some kind of drupal php hybrid

15:46 <jackygrahamez>

15:46 <Romulus> <> (at

15:46 <jackygrahamez> oh dear me it is really not looking too good right now

15:48 <yoyo[RKN]> I like the user of the day ;)

15:49 <jackygrahamez> now try it

15:49 <jackygrahamez> that user of the day has a very big banner :-)

15:49 <yoyo[RKN]> lol

15:50 <PovAddict> bleh

15:51 <yoyo[RKN]> now the styl looks good

15:53 <CoderForLife> home again

15:53 <CoderForLife> Zzzzzz

15:54 <PovAddict> hey CoderForLife

15:54 <CoderForLife> hello PovAddict =)

15:54 <CoderForLife> wrestling with vendors is very tiring

15:56 <jackygrahamez> now see the logos I just added

15:57 <PovAddict> "I find it a bit confusing how commonplace Adobe Reader has become. For some reason everybody seems to be using it for reading PDF files. Even though there are plenty of free alternatives. And the alternatives are much smaller and faster. And start up in under a minute."

15:57 <PovAddict> "From my point of view, Adobe Reader has become the new IE. For security reasons, avoid it if you can."

15:58 <yoyo[RKN]> is it a UFO in middle on the top?

15:58 <jackygrahamez> Its the national library of medicine commonly reffered to by the NIH as the "Mothership"

15:58 <xcamel> 'lo

15:59 <jackygrahamez> now if I could just insert that transparent gif another way...let me see

16:03 <Soul_keeper> hey people !

16:06 <jackygrahamez> progress. I got the transparent gif over the background

16:06 <jackygrahamez> now if I could keep said person's banner within the margins that would be nice

16:07 <yoyo[RKN]> ;)

16:07 * CoderForLife goes to find something to eat

16:08 * PovAddict is eating cheesecake

16:12 <KathrynM>

16:12 <Romulus> <> (at

16:12 <KathrynM> you've gotta be kiddingme

16:12 <KathrynM> I'm gonna scream at the next person who reports an alpha problem on the boards

16:13 <MTughan> Just don't scream at a JBOD array. It increases the latency. ;)

16:15 * CoderForLife returns

16:16 * KathrynM waves at CoderForLife

16:16 * CoderForLife waves with a roast beef sandwich

16:17 <KathrynM> send one over here

16:17 <Soul_keeper> CoderForLife,    C is vastly superior :)

16:17 <Romulus> Title: Lsnet Stats 0.3.0 (at

16:17 * KathrynM wonders if the kitten is still laying in KathrynM's spot in bed

16:17 <CoderForLife> it might be cheaper, rather than shipping costs, if I can you the money to buy locally

16:18 <MTughan> Soul_keeper: Maybe, if the images loaded.

16:18 <MTughan> Top image goes to

16:18 <KathrynM> oh good, it's not jsut me

16:18 <Romulus> <> (at

16:18 <KathrynM> yeah, CoderForLife, but getting said sandwich here is neigh impossible

16:18 <Soul_keeper> opps sorry

16:18 <jackygrahamez> any suggestions on my uotd cell?

16:18 <CoderForLife> Soul_keeper's images don't load for me either

16:18 <MTughan> Going to works, so you have a link problem.

16:18 <MTughan> CoderForLife: Yeah, wrong image URL.

16:19 * KathrynM dives back into bed

16:19 <KathrynM> tgif

16:19 <MTughan> lol

16:19 * CoderForLife is dog tired

16:19 <jackygrahamez> well I'm out of here. Got to hit the tredmill

16:19 <Soul_keeper> try now

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16:21 <Soul_keeper> blastid

16:21 <CoderForLife> market went kathunk again today

16:22 <MTughan> Soul_keeper: Good.

16:22 <Soul_keeper> i seem to have discovered some kind of issue with it on my 64-bit system

16:22 <MTughan> Although I seem to get lots of JPEG artifacts.

16:23 <Soul_keeper> hmmm

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16:23 <Soul_keeper> might have to do with your browser not like the tables

16:24 <Soul_keeper> <td width="100%" height="" align="center" valign="center">

16:24 <Soul_keeper> i'll edit it and do a, "see what happens" with you if you got the time ...

16:25 <Soul_keeper> but i gotta make a phone call right now

16:25 <PovAddict> ew tables

16:27 <MTughan> Soul_keeper: I think you've got to modify test2.png again... I'm not just off the charts, I'm off the image now.

16:29 <Soul_keeper> that's an old image

16:30 <MTughan> boincrace/test2.png? I know test.png was retired, but it looked like test2 was still being updated.

16:30 <Soul_keeper> ohhh that

16:31 <Soul_keeper> i'll fix that later

16:41 <Soul_keeper> hmmm so compiling lsnetd with -m32 fixes it on 64 bit ...

16:41 <Soul_keeper> some kinda library issue i guess

16:42 <PovAddict> compiling with -m32 makes it not be 64 bit anymore

16:42 <CoderForLife> default size of data types

16:43 <CoderForLife> I'm not feeling so good - going to go lay down

16:43 <Soul_keeper> could be, i used sizeof on most things, might have let one or two pesky arrays laying around tho

16:43 <CoderForLife> laterz

16:43 <PovAddict> wouldn't surprise me if Soul_keeper's code does something that doesn't work if sizeof(void*) != 4

16:44 <Soul_keeper> :)

16:44 <Soul_keeper> how so ?

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16:58 <Soul_keeper> don't worry i'm good at figuring things out on my own

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17:38 <xcamel> sometimes I really hate paypal..

17:39 <PovAddict>

17:43 <Soul_keeper> yeah nobody ever gives me fre money ...

17:57 <Soul_keeper> so wtf

17:57 <Soul_keeper> is the idea to have no ints in any program ?

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18:04 <PovAddict> huh

18:07 <xcamel> anyway... 6.6.11 working pretty much across the board now

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18:24 <ComradeHaz> Hi all, is BOINC manager not connecting to client under KDE 4 a known issue?

18:24 <ComradeHaz> and is there afix?

18:25 <MTughan> What happens if you try to connect to the core client manually?

18:25 <ComradeHaz> how do I do it manually?

18:26 <MTughan> Have you set a custom password in gui_rpc_auth.cfg?

18:26 <ComradeHaz> nope

18:26 <MTughan> All right... In the BOINC data directory, there's a file called gui_rpc_auth.cfg.

18:26 <MTughan> In that file should be a random string of characters, either alphanumeric or hexadecimal, I don't remember.

18:27 <ComradeHaz> There's nothing

18:27 <MTughan> There's nothing in the file?

18:27 <ComradeHaz> No

18:27 <MTughan> You have permissions to read it?

18:27 <ComradeHaz> tom@Hades:~$ sudo cat /etc/boinc-client/gui_rpc_auth.cfg

18:27 <ComradeHaz>

18:27 <ComradeHaz> tom@Hades:~$

18:28 <MTughan> All right... In the manager, go to Advanced->Select Computer, and enter in localhost for the host name. Try leaving the password blank.

18:28 <ComradeHaz> oh I see what you're doing

18:28 <MTughan> Yeah.

18:28 <ComradeHaz> think I tried this

18:28 <Soul_keeper> i think i've tracked down the problem to my localtime()

18:29 <MTughan> And it didn't work?

18:29 <ComradeHaz> It didn't  - but it did just now :D

18:29 <ComradeHaz> (I just got another version)

18:29 <ComradeHaz> so there is obviously an improvement

18:30 <MTughan> What are the permissions on /etc/boinc-client/gui_rpc_auth.cfg?

18:30 <ComradeHaz> what's the likely reason for this behaviour?

18:30 <MTughan> The manager looks for the password file and tries to read it in on startup, using that for the password to localhost.

18:31 <MTughan> Problem is that I don't know if it's getting the right file.

18:31 <ComradeHaz> tom@Hades:~$ ls -l /etc/boinc-client/gui_rpc_auth.cfg

18:31 <ComradeHaz> -rw-r----- 1 root boinc 1 2008-08-12 11:08 /etc/boinc-client/gui_rpc_auth.cfg

18:31 <Soul_keeper> hmmm then again ...

18:31 <MTughan> And you're probably not a member of boinc... Meaning that even if the manager were to find the right file, it couldn't read it upon startup.

18:32 <MTughan> Why the heck is it owned by root?

18:32 <ComradeHaz> the manager runs as me then, does it?

18:32 <MTughan> Yeah.

18:32 <ComradeHaz> uh

18:32 <ComradeHaz> this is debian

18:32 <ComradeHaz> I think that'd be normal

18:32 <MTughan> PovAddict: Any idea why gui_rpc_auth is owned by root?

18:33 <MTughan> If anything, it should be owned by boinc.

18:33 <PovAddict> because he ran the client as root the first time

18:33 <PovAddict> BAD

18:33 <ComradeHaz> o.O

18:33 <ComradeHaz> seems unlikely

18:33 <MTughan> Ah yeah, because the client creats gui_rpc_auth on first run...

18:33 <ComradeHaz> but ok

18:34 <ComradeHaz> would the client be started by root after install?

18:34 <PovAddict> what distro?

18:34 <Romulus> It has been said that what distro is this, PovAddict

18:34 <ComradeHaz> given I use a package manager

18:34 <ComradeHaz> Debian

18:34 <ComradeHaz> would make a certain amount of sense

18:34 <PovAddict> /etc/init.d/boinc-client stop, delete gui_rpc_auth, then /etc/init.d/boinc-client start

18:34 <ComradeHaz> are you suggesting I chown the file to me?

18:35 <ComradeHaz> oh

18:35 <ComradeHaz> ok

18:35 <ComradeHaz> hmm

18:35 <ComradeHaz> needed root to stop it :DS

18:35 <PovAddict> you'll need root to stop the root-owned file too :)

18:36 <ComradeHaz> booo

18:36 <ComradeHaz> tom@Hades:~$ /etc/init.d/boinc-client start

18:36 <ComradeHaz> * Starting BOINC core client: boinc/etc/ line 273: runlevel: command not found

18:36 <MTughan> If root is needed to start the service, and gui_rpc_auth is still owned by root afterwards, means that the startup script probably doesn't use su properly.

18:36 <ComradeHaz> /etc/ line 278: exit: Starting: numeric argument required

18:36 <ComradeHaz> Quite.

18:37 *** up365 has quit IRC

18:37 <Soul_keeper> yes     printf("asctime: %s\n", asctime(local));              fails

18:37 <ComradeHaz> brb - the missus is calling...

18:38 <MTughan> Why is it called runlevel... Used to determine current and previous runlevels.

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18:39 <MTughan> I think something wrong's happended to the Debian package. I see no reason why it would call runlevel.

18:40 <MTughan> Fedora's startup script doesn't use it in any case.

18:43 <PovAddict> ComradeHaz: wow that's a broken script

18:43 <PovAddict> expected better from debian

18:45 <ComradeHaz> hmm

18:45 <ComradeHaz> it's odd

18:45 <ComradeHaz> that's the 3rd version that's not worked

18:45 <ComradeHaz> and it's only been since I went to kde4

18:46 <ComradeHaz> I started off with whatever was in the unstable repos. That brok when I went to kde4 so I pulled in the experimental packages

18:46 <ComradeHaz> they got upgraded tonight which is why I thought I'd have another play.

18:47 <ComradeHaz> seems unlikely they'd mess up 3 times in a row (although kde4.2 is also still in experimental for the moment)

18:47 <ComradeHaz> so why does it work ok as root/

18:48 <ComradeHaz> tom@Hades:~$ sudo /etc/init.d/boinc-client start

18:48 <ComradeHaz> * Starting BOINC core client: boinc                                                                                                                                          [ OK ]

18:48 <ComradeHaz> * Setting up scheduling for BOINC core client and children:                                                                                                                  [ OK ]

18:48 <ComradeHaz>

18:48 <MTughan> How long is the startup script? Can you post it on pastebin?

18:49 <PovAddict> ComradeHaz: then maybe you have boinc package from experimental?

18:50 <ComradeHaz> PovAddict: Can you clarify what you're asking?

18:50 <PovAddict> you enabled experimental to get kde 4.2

18:50 <PovAddict> maybe you got boinc package from experimental too, which has an...experimental version of boinc :)

18:51 <ComradeHaz> read again what I said about trying 3 versions...

18:51 <PovAddict> what do you mean it works ok for root?

18:51 <PovAddict> /etc/init.d scripts always need root

18:51 <PovAddict> none of the scripts in there will work from a normal account

18:51 <ComradeHaz> oh right, ok

18:52 <ComradeHaz>

18:53 <PovAddict> that seems ok

18:53 <PovAddict> anyway

18:53 <ComradeHaz> so how would I have run it as me

18:53 <PovAddict> it runs as 'boinc', and that's correct

18:54 <PovAddict> for the manager to work, your user account needs to be part of the boinc *group*

18:55 <ComradeHaz> w

18:55 <ComradeHaz> argh

18:55 <ComradeHaz> how do I see what groups I'm part of again?

18:55 <ComradeHaz> being dumb :D

18:55 <PovAddict> id

18:55 <ComradeHaz> ahhh

18:55 <ComradeHaz> no sign of boi

18:56 <ComradeHaz> nc

18:58 <PovAddict> edit /etc/group (as root), in the line starting with boinc:, add your username at the end

18:58 <PovAddict> will look like

18:58 <PovAddict> boinc:x:120:tom

18:58 <PovAddict> (the number may differ on your computer)

18:59 <ComradeHaz> should I not use usrmod?

18:59 <ComradeHaz> *usermod

18:59 <PovAddict> yeah or that

19:00 <ComradeHaz> ok

19:00 <ComradeHaz> so done that

19:01 <ComradeHaz> but I need to restart something I guess

19:01 <PovAddict> re-login

19:01 <ComradeHaz> bah

19:01 <ComradeHaz> ok

19:03 <ComradeHaz> not helped :D

19:03 <ComradeHaz> id now shows me part of group

19:03 <ComradeHaz> boinc-client running fine

19:03 <ComradeHaz> manager still not connecting as one'd expect

19:04 <PovAddict> bah, did you delete gui_rpc_auth.cfg?

19:04 <PovAddict> I forgot a detail...

19:04 <PovAddict> hmm nevermind actually

19:04 <ComradeHaz> heh

19:04 <ComradeHaz> it's worse now

19:04 <PovAddict> see the contents of the gui_rpc_auth.cfg file

19:04 <PovAddict> you should be able to see it

19:04 <ComradeHaz> can;t even connect by pointing at virtual host again

19:04 <ComradeHaz> uh

19:04 <ComradeHaz> localhost

19:05 <PovAddict> that's because I shouldn't have told you to delete it -_-'

19:05 <PovAddict> now BOINC generated a non-empty password on it

19:06 <ComradeHaz> uh

19:06 <ComradeHaz> indeed it didn't

19:06 <PovAddict> what are the permissions of gui_rpc_auth.cfg now?

19:06 <ComradeHaz> indeed, it didn;t recreate the file at all :D

19:06 <PovAddict> it didn't create the file? o.O

19:06 <PovAddict> argh >.<

19:06 <ComradeHaz> in /etc/boinc-client/ right?

19:07 <Soul_keeper> my 64-bit issue was just a matter of header location ..

19:07 <PovAddict> what a mess

19:07 <ComradeHaz> :D

19:07 <PovAddict> is the file in /etc/boinc-client/?

19:07 <ComradeHaz> My life all over

19:07 <ComradeHaz> nope

19:07 <PovAddict> is the file in /var/lib/boinc-client/?

19:07 <ComradeHaz> tom@Hades:~$ less /etc/boinc-client/

19:07 <ComradeHaz> cc_config.xml              global_prefs_override.xml  remote_hosts.cfg

19:07 <PovAddict> ls -l /var/lib/boinc-client/*.cfg

19:08 <ComradeHaz> tom@Hades:~$ ls -l /var/lib/boinc-client/*.cfg

19:08 <ComradeHaz> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 34 2009-02-26 23:26 /var/lib/boinc-client/gui_rpc_auth.cfg -> /etc/boinc-client/gui_rpc_auth.cfg

19:08 <ComradeHaz> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 34 2009-02-26 23:26 /var/lib/boinc-client/remote_hosts.cfg -> /etc/boinc-client/remote_hosts.cfg

19:08 <PovAddict> all my mistake... that file being owned by root was completely normal, I shouldn't have told you to delete it

19:08 <ComradeHaz> ok

19:08 <ComradeHaz> well it was blank...

19:08 <ComradeHaz> but gimme a sec

19:08 <ComradeHaz> I'll restore it :)

19:09 <PovAddict> sudo touch /etc/boinc-client/gui_rpc_auth.cfg; sudo chown root:boinc /etc/boinc-client/gui_rpc_auth.cfg;

19:09 <PovAddict> and sudo /etc/init.d/boinc-client restart

19:09 <ComradeHaz> oh, OK

19:11 <ComradeHaz> ok

19:11 <ComradeHaz> the file's back

19:11 <PovAddict> see if the manager connects by itself now

19:11 <MTughan> touch recreated it.

19:11 <ComradeHaz> owned by root

19:11 <PovAddict> group boinc?

19:11 <ComradeHaz> indeed

19:11 <ComradeHaz> but no

19:11 <ComradeHaz> client does not connect

19:11 <PovAddict> see if the manager connects by itself now; if it doesn't, at least it should work again giving the host manually now

19:12 <ComradeHaz> it does work manually....

19:12 <ComradeHaz> ok, so does that bring us to any conclusions as to whaere the problem lies?

19:12 <ComradeHaz> *where

19:13 <PovAddict> it's working like on any other computer now... :/

19:13 <PovAddict> now that I understand how things are

19:13 <ComradeHaz> it is? Should the manager notconnect autmagically to localhost?

19:13 <PovAddict> the only way to make it work is changing the manager code to read /etc/boinc-client/gui_rpc_auth.cfg

19:14 <PovAddict> instead of only gui_rpc_auth.cfg in the current directory

19:14 <ComradeHaz> symlink?

19:14 <PovAddict> symlink on your home directory would work

19:15 <ComradeHaz> ok, so where does it want to see the file?

19:15 <ComradeHaz> just in home?!

19:15 <PovAddict> in the *current* directory

19:15 <ComradeHaz> what does 'current' mean?

19:15 <PovAddict> put the symlink in home, but boincmgr would only connect if you run it from your home directory, not from anywhere else

19:15 <PovAddict> tom@Hades:~$

19:15 <ComradeHaz> oh

19:15 <PovAddict> ~ is the current directory there

19:15 <ComradeHaz> well I run it using Alt+F2

19:16 <PovAddict> I don't know what Alt-F2 uses as cwd, but it's probably home

19:16 <ComradeHaz> bugger knows where that runs it 'from'

19:16 <ComradeHaz> aye

19:17 <ComradeHaz> lolz

19:17 <ComradeHaz> if I run it from the 'kmenu' it runs just fine :/

19:17 <ComradeHaz> [insert bashful face here]

19:17 <ComradeHaz> wtf's with that?! :D

19:17 <ComradeHaz> that's a bit dodgy

19:17 <PovAddict> huh, did you make the link?

19:18 <ComradeHaz> nope

19:18 <PovAddict> maybe the kmenu entry uses /var/lib/boinc-client as cwd

19:18 <ComradeHaz> 'mind fu**!'

19:19 <ComradeHaz> ok

19:19 <ComradeHaz> so finally my central heating's not stuck on 100% :D

19:19 <ComradeHaz> now's the weather's warming up it's not so good :)

19:20 <ComradeHaz> Thanks for your help chaps

19:20 <ComradeHaz> if you want me to look into any of this in more details feel free to highlight me occasioanlly :)

19:21 <ComradeHaz> for now, though, I'm gonna hope the lady's not gone to sleep yet!

19:21 <ComradeHaz> night!

19:21 <PovAddict> :O

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19:42 <xcamel_> weird hit

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20:14 <xcamel> Support wind power - send another blowhard to washington.

20:28 <PovAddict> +1

20:31 <Soul_keeper>   here you go MTughan let's see you max that height out

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20:32 <PovAddict> still scraping boincstats?

20:33 <wdsmia> put me on it and it will max lol

20:34 <MTughan> Soul_keeper: If I keep up the GPU app, I should max it out in about 10 days. xD

20:34 <Soul_keeper> lol ok

20:35 <Soul_keeper> nvidia or ati ?

20:35 <MTughan> ATI.

20:35 <Soul_keeper> nice

20:35 <Soul_keeper> which project ?

20:35 <Romulus> Rumor has it which project is RS, Soul_keeper

20:35 <MTughan> MW.

20:35 <Soul_keeper> good work

20:35 <PovAddict> forget which project

20:35 <Romulus> I hear ya.

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20:53 <eidolon> hi folk s- i just installed the boinc client service on one of my debian linux hosts.  i've been used to running boinc_lcient from the command line - how do i configure the service (running out of init.d) to have my personal key for projects?

20:54 <MTughan> Personal key? You want the client to store your data so you don't have to enter it when you attach to a project?

20:55 <eidolon> well... sort of.  i want to run the boinc client as a service / client on my hosts - and run / stop when the machine boots.

20:55 <eidolon> it's running now

20:55 <eidolon> on another machine i have

20:55 <eidolon> but i have no clue how i configured it (it was like 2 years ago)

20:55 <PovAddict> what OS?

20:55 <PovAddict> writing an init.d script from scratch is not trivial

20:55 <eidolon> debian etch

20:55 <eidolon> it's already initted

20:55 <PovAddict> then what's the problem?

20:55 <eidolon> dbs@ketch:/etc/init.d$ ls -ldt boi*

20:55 <eidolon> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 2741 2009-02-08 05:15 boinc-client

20:55 <MTughan> There's an init.d script available? You just need it to activate on startup?

20:56 <PovAddict> it should be already starting on boot then

20:56 <eidolon> right.  but how do i set up what projects it works with, and what username to submit credit under?

20:56 <MTughan> The client stores that data.

20:56 <PovAddict> is it the first time you install it?

20:56 <PovAddict> oh let me guess

20:56 <eidolon> PovAddict: yep

20:56 <eidolon> aptitude install boinc_client

20:57 <eidolon> owait - it might be using /var/lib/boinc_client

20:57 <PovAddict> you have been running the client manually, god knows from what directory, and giving switches to the client itself to attach projects?

20:58 <eidolon> PovAddict: honestly, i don't remember setting it up.  so lets assume i'm starting from scratch?

20:58 <PovAddict> ah k

20:58 <PovAddict> do you have GUI?

20:59 <eidolon> the machine it's running on is headless.  but i can probably attach remotely

20:59 <eidolon> oh that would make sense wouldn't it

20:59 * eidolon has NO BRAIN tonoight.

20:59 <PovAddict> see if BOINC is already running: ps aux | grep boinc

20:59 <eidolon> it is

20:59 * eidolon just checked

21:00 <eidolon> sec, i'll install the boinc client on my local machine, then i'll connect remotely.

21:00 <PovAddict> no need

21:00 <eidolon> no?

21:00 <Romulus> I guess no is I supposed to, eidolon

21:00 * eidolon sits on the bot.

21:00 <PovAddict> boinc_cmd --get_project_status

21:00 <MTughan> forget no

21:00 <Romulus> Okay.

21:00 <eidolon> no projects.

21:00 <PovAddict> eidolon: stay sitting there

21:00 * eidolon is sitting. *nod*

21:00 <PovAddict> that's *good*, means boinc_cmd can connect :)

21:00 <eidolon> :)

21:01 <eidolon> i'm sshed into that box.

21:01 <eidolon> next?  :)

21:01 <PovAddict> yeah but sometimes there's auth problems connecting to the client even on local machine

21:01 <PovAddict> anyway

21:01 <eidolon> k

21:01 <PovAddict> boinc_cmd --lookup_account http://type.project.url/here/ yourpassword

21:01 <eidolon> oi.

21:01 <PovAddict> assuming you already have an account on the project

21:01 <eidolon> yeah

21:02 <eidolon> okay, hang ona sec.  i have to find out what projects i'm doing and which accounts i'll use

21:02 <eidolon> i know i have a folding and a seti login

21:02 <PovAddict> it will print your account key (which is *secret*)

21:02 <PovAddict> then

21:02 <PovAddict> boinc_cmd --project_attach http://project-url/ accountkeyhere

21:02 <PovAddict> huh, folding isn't BOINC-based

21:02 <eidolon> ORLY?

21:02 <eidolon> i wonder hwat i'm running on that laptop

21:03 <eidolon> might not be folding

21:03 <eidolon> it's a windows box that has twisty graphic images when in screensave mode.  not the rolling seti@home image

21:03 <eidolon> rosetta

21:03 <eidolon> my bad, sorry.

21:04 <eidolon> found my acocunt key for rosetta.  wasn't there something about a cross project key i should be using?

21:04 <eidolon> (i have a boincstats team i'm a part of, i want to makesure credit here goes into the team)

21:04 <MTughan> Cross project ID? Not used here ATM.

21:05 <MTughan> AKA, CPID.

21:05 <eidolon> oka, so if i just use my rosetta account key, i should be golden, yeth?

21:06 <MTughan> I believe so, provided you haven't changed your password on Rosetta.

21:06 <PovAddict> account keys are permanent

21:07 <eidolon> 2009-02-26 21:07:30 [] Scheduler list download succeeded

21:07 <Romulus> Title: Rosetta@home (at

21:07 <eidolon> that looks promising.

21:09 <jasong1> How do you get CentOS to send the output of a command to a text file?  usually, I just type <command> >> <textfile name>.txt , but that gets me bupkus

21:09 <eidolon> awesome - get_project_status on both  macines is showing my login name and my team name.

21:09 <eidolon> thank you very  much, pov and mt :)

21:09 <eidolon> jasong1: >> redirects stdout

21:09 <PovAddict> jasong1: that's the way, command >> filename.txt (to *append*)

21:09 <eidolon> PovAddict: it'll create the file if it doesn't exist.

21:10 <PovAddict> or command > filename.txt (to overwrite the file if it already exists)

21:10 <eidolon> but, if the script is generating to stderr, it won't redirect.

21:10 <eidolon> you need 2>&1

21:10 <MTughan> It's possible to redirect both.

21:10 <jasong1> What do I do with '2>&1'?

21:10 <jasong1> Sorry, I'm dense

21:11 <jasong1> Do I just put that at the end

21:11 <MTughan> <command> 2>&1 <textfile>

21:11 <eidolon>

21:11 <Romulus> <> (at

21:11 <eidolon> read that

21:11 <jasong1> okay, thanks

21:11 <eidolon> np.

21:14 <eidolon> hey PovAddict - on one of the machines i'm runnig on, boinc_client --get_project_status gives me an unknown option response

21:14 <eidolon> but it's running the same os as i have here.

21:14 <PovAddict> it's boinc_cmd, not boinc_client

21:14 <eidolon> DOH!

21:14 <PovAddict> never run the _client by hand

21:14 * eidolon hides.

21:15 <eidolon> "Authorization failure: -155"

21:15 <MTughan> I'd say it can't read gui_rpc_auth.cfg.

21:15 <eidolon> uh oh

21:15 <eidolon> ketch kernel: CPU3: Temperature above threshold

21:16 <PovAddict> it's gonna blow up!

21:16 <PovAddict> boinc_cmd --set_run_mode never

21:16 <PovAddict> to pause it

21:17 <MTughan> It's not going to blow up... >_>

21:17 <eidolon> nuts.

21:17 <eidolon> i was wondering if cooling was going to be apropriate for this machine

21:17 <eidolon> apparently not.

21:18 <xcamel> overzealous sensors

21:18 <eidolon> well, it cooled off quickly.

21:18 <eidolon> maybe.

21:18 <eidolon> i just got a 'temp/speed normal' notification.

21:18 <xcamel> set fans to max

21:19 <eidolon> oddly, thermal_zone isn't showing any temperature sensors.

21:19 <eidolon> so i'm wondering wher eit's getting this info.

21:19 <eidolon> probably the cpu itself is causing a kernel trap

21:19 <eidolon> cuz these sure are kernel messages :)

21:19 <xcamel> or throttling

21:19 <MTughan> Yeah, I suppose the kernel could detect throttling.

21:20 <eidolon> well, i was getting CPU0: Running in modulated clock mode

21:20 <xcamel> yup

21:21 <xcamel> same diff

21:21 <eidolon> these is a dual Xeon 2gig mobo.  prolem is hyperthreading is enabled.  i wodner if boinc just thought there were 4 cpus and tried to run 4 jobs.

21:21 <eidolon> even still.  it shouldn't have overheated that fast :(

21:21 <xcamel> it can/will/does

21:21 <MTughan> What heatsink?

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21:21 <eidolon> passive heatsink with vanes.  a pair of 44mm fans blowing across them - this is ina 1U chassis.  i'm doing burnin on this box before installing it int eh datacenter.

21:22 <eidolon> these are -old- xeons.  non-64bit

21:22 <xcamel> sounds like my box 'forge'

21:22 <MTughan> Provided the passive heatsink can cool it, the thermal paste was applied right?

21:22 <eidolon>  <-- ketch's cpuinfo screen

21:22 <Romulus> <> (at

21:23 <xcamel> old dual ht xeons

21:23 <eidolon> MTughan: possibly?  i haven't popped the coolers

21:23 <eidolon>  <-- that's the motherboard

21:23 <MTughan> They came preapplied?

21:23 <Romulus> <> (at

21:23 <eidolon> yea

21:23 <eidolon> these machines were pulled from production.

21:23 <eidolon> they were in a big computing cluster.

21:23 <PovAddict> the thermal paste evaporated? :P

21:24 <eidolon> heh

21:24 <eidolon> i think i'll add another pair of cooling fans (the ones i have are a little wimpy) - that'll give 4 fans blowing across the cpus, and i'll make sure i seal up the other side of the case to get devent airflow.  i can't think of doing anythingbetter.

21:24 <eidolon> and i won't run them full tilt :)

21:25 <MTughan> You can always tell BOINC to only run on 50% of the processors.

21:25 <PovAddict> BOINC has throttling

21:25 <PovAddict> but you'd have to set it on the project webpage

21:25 <eidolon> no, it's okay.  i -wanted- to do this.

21:25 <MTughan> Rather inefficient throttling as I remember.

21:25 <PovAddict> (good luck changing local settings without a GUI)

21:25 <eidolon> i wanted to see if i could overheat the cpus - in case these went to load in production, i wanted to know what would happen.

21:26 <eidolon> answered the question "Is there sufficient cooling in this chassis for these cpu's to run full tilt?"

21:26 <eidolon> answer: no.

21:26 <xcamel> damn my cable is slow tonight

21:26 <xcamel> get a big old 120mm fan and set it on top...

21:27 <eidolon> no space in the case to do that.

21:27 <xcamel> take the cover off..

21:27 <eidolon> honstly, a pair of 40mm's blowing across each cpu should cover it.

21:27 <eidolon> xcamel: gonna make it hard to mount it in the rack like that ;)

21:29 <xcamel> but you're not gonna be running boinc on it when in the rack, right?

21:29 <eidolon> not if it keeps overheating :)

21:30 <eidolon> this machine'll be an application host - running tomcat applications.

21:30 <eidolon> and some php apps.

21:30 <xcamel> the thin profile amd cpu fans would do it..

21:31 <eidolon> i'm wondering.  case flow is seriously important yes?  i need to make sure there's one path through the case for air, and it draws from the front (cool area), blows across the cpu vanes, and can only exhaust out the back, yes?  I know that part of the internal case is open - it may be 'swirling' in there.

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22:06 <DrBashir> hi

22:07 <DrBashir> 27-Feb-2009 04:03:44 [---] [error] GUI RPC bind failed: 98 | gstate.init() failed: -180

22:08 <DrBashir> debian lenny 5.0 - boinc --version -> 6.2.14 i686-pc-linux-gnu

22:08 <DrBashir> what can i do?

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22:13 <MTughan> Looks like that means the BOINC client couldn't attach to the TCP port used for communication.

22:13 <MTughan> Do you have two copies of BOINC running on the same machine?

22:15 <Soul_keeper> gettum MTughan !

22:15 <MTughan> ?

22:20 <MTughan> DrBashir?

22:21 <jasong1> he probably went to hang out with Quark

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22:54 <efc> moo

23:01 <jasong> Just for information: Obama has released his 2010 budget plans, if I'm reading the time correctly the article was posted about a half-hour ago

23:01 <jasong>

23:01 <Romulus> Title: BBC NEWS | Business | Obama unveils his $3.6tn budget (at

23:03 <efc> I'm going into business selling the govt commas and zeros

23:03 <jasong> Do Romulus and DrBashir get along?  I mean, a talking planet from the Star Trek universe is bad enough.  But combine it with a headstrong young doctor from the same universe and things could get interesting

23:03 <efc> Mil-Spec'd, of course

23:04 <jasong> I haven't read the article just yet, doing that now :)

23:05 <jasong> Hey, if they express the budget in Euros, the numbers are about 30% less, so they don't seem quite as horrible

23:06 <jasong> ;)

23:06 <efc> How bout Zimbabwe dollars..

23:07 <jasong> Would that make the numbers more or less?

23:07 <MTughan> Incredibly high.

23:07 * jasong doesn't know anything about Zimbabwe

23:07 <jasong> oh wow

23:07 <MTughan> Zimbabwe dollars are almost worthless.

23:08 <efc> even after they devalued it 100 billion to one or whatever

23:09 <MTughan> 1 USD = 91.3900 ZWD

23:09 <MTughan> &math 787000000000 * 91.39

23:09 <Romulus> MTughan: 71923930000000

23:09 <efc> I don't think you can really pin much of an exact rate on that one

23:09 <MTughan> 71,923,930,000,000

23:10 <MTughan> 71.9 trillion Zimbabwe dollars is the value of the US stimulus bill.

23:11 <MTughan> And that government just devalued it so 1 trillion "old" dollars is equal to 1 "new" dollar.

23:11 <MTughan> 71,923,930,000,000,000,000,000,000 in the old dollars.

23:11 <MTughan> 71.9 septillion then. ;)

23:12 <efc> But you could burn $1 ZWD notes as fuel, cheaper than any fuel

23:13 <efc> "I shall not crucify this nation on a Cross of Paper!"

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23:51 <MTughan> 'lo Nickuwo

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