IRC logs of #boinc for Thursday, 2009-03-19

00:01 <jasong> Man, there must be a huge USPS center in Hodgkins, Illinois, everything I order online seems to come from there

00:02 <MTughan> "An enormous United Parcel Service sorting facility, known as CACH, is located partly in Hodgkins, and partly in nearby Willow Springs on the outskirts of Chicago. CACH employs over 9,000 people, and is the "largest package sorting center in the world.""

00:02 <MTughan> That answer your question? ;)

00:04 <jasong> Wow, I think the population of my town is around 20,000 or so, so that's a shedload of employees

00:06 <MTughan> No, because Hodgkins had a population of 2134 in 2000.

00:06 <MTughan> The nearby Willow Springs mentioned had a 2000 population of 5027.

00:07 <MTughan> So the package facility dwarfs both of them, and most people who work there live farther away.

00:07 <jasong> Yeah, but I was simply trying to grasp how many people that was

00:07 <MTughan> Ah, yeah...

00:08 <MTughan> My home city just outside of Toronto, Canada has a population of about 400K... xD

00:10 <jasong> How does Toronto rank in population when you look at all of Canada?

00:10 <jasong> no biggie if you don't know

00:11 <MTughan> Toronto proper is about 3 million last I heard. I believe all of the GTA is about 8 million.

00:11 <MTughan> Total population of Canada is 30 million.

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00:15 <zombie67> Tank_Master?

00:15 <Romulus> hmm... Tank_Master is active now, so I can go and sleep, zombie67

00:19 <zombie67> MT?

00:19 <Romulus> MT is right, zombie67

00:19 <MTughan> Yep

00:20 <MTughan> I was watching a documentary.

00:20 <zombie67> I just received this (pause for URL)

00:21 <zombie67> f'ing web is slow

00:22 <zombie67> almost there

00:22 <zombie67>

00:22 <Romulus> <> (at

00:22 <zombie67> the fastest CUDA card that is PCI (not PCIe)

00:23 <zombie67> I am about to run it on SETI Beta and see how it compares to my 280

00:23 <MTughan> Wondering if it'll run BOINC?

00:23 <zombie67> it WIL

00:23 <zombie67> L

00:23 <zombie67> I know that GPUGRID requires beta drivers.

00:23 <zombie67> does SETI?

00:24 <MTughan> I don't run CUDA machines. Don't have any capable Nvidia hardware with a compatible OS.

00:24 <MTughan> So I can't say.

00:24 <zombie67> ah

00:25 <zombie67> anyway, most of my machines don't have PCIe, so this may be a good way to leverage their PCI slot(s).

00:25 <zombie67> TM says that it is probably too slow for GPUGRID, but I may ive it a shot anyway

00:26 <zombie67> have you seen the messages from Lattice?  looks like they are very close to releaseing CUDA work

00:27 <zombie67> okay, brb.  install time

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01:05 <Romulus> New news from boinc: BOINC news March 18, 2009

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01:43 <zombie67> MT?

01:43 <Romulus> hmm... MT is right, zombie67

01:43 <MTughan> Here.

01:43 <zombie67> what's the word on 19e?

01:44 <zombie67> brb mule drain

01:44 <MTughan> No idea. I know it brought slightly lower GPU usage to allow Windows some more usage for smoothness, and I heard it was posted as stable. I'm still using 0.19d.

01:45 <zombie67> back

01:46 <zombie67> I saw that, and then the Q about does that mean less crunching performance.  And the answer was RTFM

01:46 <zombie67> and something about option F

01:46 <zombie67> nothing in the D read me about option F

01:47 <zombie67> so I wonder what he was talking about

01:47 <MTughan> No clue.

01:48 <zombie67> ok.  I'll stick with D until I hear a good reason to change (credits).

01:48 <zombie67> I am scared to mess with was two days of suicide-inducing frustration just to get them to work.

01:51 <jasong> What's with a the capital letters representing words?

01:51 <jasong> +ll

01:51 <jasong> DOH, now I'm doing something similar

01:52 <zombie67> did you see DA added pending/valid/error/etc?  I was asking for that over a year ago!!

01:55 <zombie67> okay, I have comparable tasks:

01:55 <zombie67> 9400 GT (PCI):

01:55 <Romulus> <> (at

01:56 <zombie67> GTX 280:

01:56 <Romulus> <> (at

01:56 <zombie67> how do I compare GPU time?

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03:23 <Tidus> so iphone 3.0 coming out sometime this summer

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04:02 <Soul_keeper> * ATI Catalyst? 9.3 Folding@Home performance enhancements

04:12 <CoderForLife> &wx 45140

04:12 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Temperature: 47.3°F / 8.5°C | Humidity: 86% | Pressure: 30.06in / 1017.8hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Light Rain | Wind Direction: South | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Today - Cloudy with scattered showers early...then becoming mostly sunny. Highs in the lower 50s. North winds 10 to 15 mph. Chance of rain 50 percent.; Tonight - Mostly clear. Lows in the upper 20s. North winds 5 to 10 (1 more message)

04:12 <CoderForLife> &more

04:12 <Romulus> CoderForLife: mph.; Friday - Sunny. Highs in the mid 40s. Northeast winds around 5 mph.;

04:16 <Tank_Master> zombie67

04:42 <Soul_keeper> "Bubble pump technology is not only efficient in capturing and transferring heat, it is silent, too. And it works to temperatures as low as -40C."

04:42 <Soul_keeper>,7303.html

04:42 <Romulus> <> (at

04:42 <Soul_keeper> lol

04:42 <Soul_keeper> "Bubble pump technology"

04:46 <CoderForLife> brb  breakfast

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04:57 <Soul_keeper> i need to become more powerfull !!!

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05:31 <Tank_Master>

05:32 <Tank_Master> you can now view the WWT frim a web browser

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06:33 <hawmps> 'lo

06:35 <CoderForLife> morning

06:37 <CoderForLife> off to w@#% - I've been asked to lead a probem-solving session to day on why one of our WebSphere portal servers keeps going down - the tech folks are out of ideas

06:38 <CoderForLife> off the save the planet, again  =)

06:38 <CoderForLife> laterz

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10:59 <wdsmia_w> Jay remind me to never joke about journal commit I/o errors :(

11:10 <CoderForLife> "A Ferengi walks into a bar, and says 'Hey bartender!  I've got a journal commit I/O error!'"

11:11 <wdsmia_w> :P

11:11 <CoderForLife> "The bartender replies ... "

11:12 <CoderForLife> (fill in the punch line here)

11:13 <CoderForLife> option one - "It looks about as big as your ears, but what's it doing sticking in your ass?"

11:14 <CoderForLife> option two - "we only accept cold-pressed latinum here"

11:15 <CoderForLife> option three - "Yeah, you, and the wookie you rode in on."

11:16 * CoderForLife goes elsewhere to play

11:16 <ball> I thought it was "Gold-pressed latinum"

11:16 * ball shrugs

11:16 <CoderForLife> dunno

11:17 <CoderForLife> neither did the batrtender, apparently

11:17 <CoderForLife> er bartender

11:18 <CoderForLife> Google has it both ways - only Quark knows for sure

11:18 * CoderForLife gets up and leaves the bar

11:21 <hawmps> option 3, but it would have been a "Salt Vampire"

11:22 <hawmps> or possibly a mugato

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15:13 <yoyo[RKN]> moin

15:14 <BadBarbarian> howdy yoyo

15:18 <mweltin> someone speaks

15:18 <mweltin> I've been here for hours not and a soul has piped up.

15:18 <BadBarbarian> hey MW long time

15:18 <mweltin> too long

15:18 <mweltin> How are you?

15:18 <BadBarbarian> great

15:18 <yoyo[RKN]> hehe markus

15:19 <mweltin> I'll be making more regular appearances, I'm back in the USA and working.

15:19 <BadBarbarian> got my q6600 all sorted out

15:19 <BadBarbarian> cool

15:19 <mweltin> nice

15:19 <BadBarbarian> no more AS ??

15:19 <mweltin> what is a q6600?

15:19 <mweltin> nope

15:20 <BadBarbarian> 2.4 gig intel quad

15:20 <mweltin> very nice

15:20 <mweltin> now that mulit cores are the norm single cores are super cheap.

15:20 <BadBarbarian> even got my 8600 gt video card crunching lol

15:21 <BadBarbarian> its doing 60 credit wu's in 30 min on seti

15:21 <mweltin> WOW!

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15:22 <BadBarbarian> the cuda crubching is the bomb

15:22 <mweltin> I gotta get back in the BOINC game.  I keep pitching it around campus but no bites so far.

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15:23 * mweltin bows to FreeLarry

15:23 <mweltin> greetings

15:23 <BadBarbarian> a friend with a new 285 nvidia has a crunching rac of almost 6000

15:24 <BadBarbarian> on seti

15:24 <BadBarbarian> with just the video card lol

15:24 <mweltin> are you guys part of Tank's team?

15:24 <mweltin> nice caveat BadBarbarian video card alone

15:25 <BadBarbarian> no i am with team starfire world boinc used to be with team seti

15:25 <mweltin> do you crunch other projects or just seti?

15:25 <BadBarbarian> to many people over ther like to tell people what to do lol

15:26 <BadBarbarian> just seti right now trying to catch a team

15:27 <BadBarbarian> my rac on this quad is a total of about 8000

15:28 <mweltin> whats on your quad core XP/linux/Vista/OSX?

15:28 <BadBarbarian> the 8600 gt only gives me about a 2000 rac

15:28 <BadBarbarian> xp x64

15:28 <mweltin> How has BOINC been working with Vista?

15:28 <BadBarbarian> very well

15:28 <mweltin> no code re-factoring?

15:29 <mweltin> special vista builds?

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15:30 <BadBarbarian> they have a bunch of releases

15:30 <BadBarbarian> no just one for all windows eather 32 or 64

15:31 <mweltin> thats good to hear.

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15:31 <BadBarbarian> the new AP version 5.5 is huge

15:32 <BadBarbarian> 14 hrs for 1300 credits

15:35 <mweltin> I'm grabbing the boinc client now.

15:36 <mweltin> boinc switched to trac

15:36 <mweltin> thats new I think

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15:38 <mweltin> and with a million tickets too

15:39 <mweltin> thats cool that they made that public, so you can see what is being worked on.

15:54 <CoderForLife> home again

15:58 <PovAddict> ditto

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16:24 <xcamel> re-hi

16:29 <PovAddict> mweltin: hmm I thought Trac was already in use when you were still around

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17:27 <wdsmia> re-hi

17:29 <MTughan> mweltin: Yeah, I have a Q6600. Stock is 2.4GHz, I've overclocked to 3.26GHz.

17:35 <mweltin> trac may have been around

17:36 <mweltin> it just wasnt as obvious to em.

17:36 <mweltin> me*

17:36 <mweltin> working blows

17:36 <mweltin> I'm stuck doing all kinds of drupal stuff and I have no idea what I'm doing.

17:37 <yoyo[RKN]> are boinc credits = flops?

17:38 <PovAddict> no

17:38 <PovAddict> heck nowadays they aren't even a well-defined unit

17:39 <yoyo[RKN]> hmm

17:39 <mweltin> credits  man that was the one thing that just a pain.

17:39 <PovAddict> they used to be flops / 1000 or something

17:39 <yoyo[RKN]> is there any way to specify how much flops a project performs

17:39 <PovAddict> don't remember the constant

17:40 <mweltin> I can see why you need them, but dealing with them was just awful.   I got some good advice from DA once.

17:40 <mweltin> he said only spend 1% of your time dealing with them.

17:41 <PovAddict> one way could be Σ(task runtime * host flops benchmarks)

17:42 <yoyo[RKN]> would be interested in comparing a boinc project with the performance of computers in the top 500 list of the fastest computer

17:43 <PovAddict> it's impossible nowadays to measure how many flops you're doing

17:44 <PovAddict> nowadays = ever since CISC processors appeared

17:44 <PovAddict> CPU instructions take non-deterministic time

17:44 <PovAddict> a memory fetch could take anywhere from one CPU cycle to several million

17:45 <PovAddict> (L1 cache vs swapped to disk)

17:45 <yoyo[RKN]> :(

17:46 <PovAddict> so the "list of the 500 fastest computers" is naturally full of BS too

17:50 <PovAddict> a supercomputer is a device to turn a CPU-bound problem into an IO-bound problem

17:51 <xcamel> well put.

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18:31 <mweltin> PovAddict: HAHAHAHAHAAHAHA  - a supercomputer is a device to turn a CPU-bound problem into an IO-bound problem

18:37 * CoderForLife finishes his w@#% homew@#%

18:38 * PovAddict is currently *completely* unmotivated

18:39 <PovAddict> I can't start doing anything because I know in a few minutes Dad will come and interrupt me and make me do useless stuff

18:43 <mweltin> you capitalize Dad?  Is that his name?

18:45 <PovAddict> no

18:45 <PovAddict> ...

18:47 <mweltin> what kind of stuff does he make you do?

18:47 <PovAddict> study

18:47 <mweltin> well at least he didn't open up a call center, and have you working in his own computer support sweat shop.

18:48 <PovAddict> nope, not a call center

18:48 <mweltin> what does he want you to study?  Humanities? Philosophy? 18th century Literature?

18:48 <PovAddict> I do have a job though

18:48 <mweltin> if so I would agree its useless stuff.

18:49 <PovAddict> doesn't really matter.... schools manage to make any subject boring

18:49 <jasong>

18:49 <Romulus> <> (at

18:49 <xcamel> you need a better school

18:49 <PovAddict> xcamel: tell that to our president

18:49 <xcamel> CFL has one - it's called "A Job"

18:50 <mweltin> maybe you need a year off, a EuroRail pass, 8K euros.

18:50 <jasong> If I can manage to fight the lazy habits I've gained by being a mental health gimp, i want to be a computer science teacher

18:50 <PovAddict> mweltin: part of the reason why this is so hard for me is that I took two years off...

18:51 <mweltin> well then you have no one to blame but yourself, is that what you are telling me?

18:51 <PovAddict> meh

18:52 <PovAddict> so what if it was my fault, I don't have a time machine

18:52 <PovAddict> all I know is that I have no motivation to do stuff in the free time I still have left

18:52 <mweltin> maybe fault is too strong a wrod.

18:53 <PovAddict> and that i waste 2hrs/day of my life in a train

18:53 <PovAddict> and that bald bosses aren't different from pointy-haired bosses in comics

18:53 <PovAddict> (dilbert)

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18:55 <mweltin> thats the truth.  I got this thing called clear, I can have internet access on the bus ride home.

18:55 <mweltin> so I leave work a half hour early and do my daily round up on the commute home.

18:55 <PovAddict> the subway is supposed to have internet access

18:55 <mweltin> really? thats cool

18:56 <PovAddict> hasn't worked for the past few weeks

18:57 <PovAddict> and I spend more time in the train than in the subway anyway

18:58 * PovAddict would like to stay at home until there is an actual project at w$%&

19:09 <soul_> k

19:10 <MTughan> PovAddict: What kind of performance hit would I get if I were to run CPU apps in a VM?

19:10 <PovAddict> depends on sooo many things

19:11 <PovAddict> do you have hardware virtualization on that CPU and does your VM software support it?

19:11 <MTughan> Yes on both counts. And it's enabled.

19:11 <PovAddict> the ultimate answer should be "try it and see" though...

19:11 <PovAddict> with hw virtualization the hit should be really small

19:11 <MTughan> Just downloading updates for the OS, and I want to make sure that all cores are enabled for the VM.

19:11 <PovAddict> and without it, simple computation shouldn't be hit too much either

19:12 <PovAddict> it's OS code that gets a lot slower

19:12 <MTughan> cpuinfo only showed one CPU core if I read it right.

19:12 <PovAddict> instructions to do floating point operations can be passed directly to the host CPU

19:12 <PovAddict> low-level kernel-mode code needs emulation by the VM

19:13 <PovAddict> (has to trap most hardware access for example)

19:14 <kathryn__> tgif

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19:14 <MTughan> The problem is that combined CPU/GPU crunching where BOINC thinks the GPU app is a CPU app is getting too hairy for me.

19:14 *** soul_ is now known as Soul_keeper

19:14 <MTughan> So I'm going to run the GPU app under the native OS and the CPU apps under a VM, where they're separate.

19:14 <Soul_keeper>

19:15 <MTughan> I read that suggestion a couple days ago somewhere. Might've been MW's forums, or one of the BOINC mailing lists.

19:16 <MTughan> Either way, provided the CPU hit isn't too great, it's a good suggestion.

19:16 <PovAddict> lol Soul_keeper

19:18 <Soul_keeper>  this sounds promising, ddr3 power usage reduced by 40% they claim, only for servers now tho

19:18 <Romulus> <> (at

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19:27 <MTughan> Oops... Computer's starting to swap lots of RAM.

19:27 <MTughan> And I have 8GB physical. xD

19:29 <Soul_keeper> the 50nm die shrink for mainstream, might be enough to make ddr3 for the desktop appealing enough

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20:14 <CoderForLife> &wx 45140

20:14 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Temperature: 48.5°F / 9.2°C | Humidity: 33% | Pressure: 30.20in / 1022.6hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: SSE | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Tonight - Mostly clear. Lows in the mid 20s. North winds 5 to 10 mph.; Friday - Sunny. Highs in the mid 40s. Northeast winds around 5 mph.; Friday Night - Mostly clear. Lows in the upper 20s. East winds around 5 mph.;

20:15 <CoderForLife> &more

20:15 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Error: That's all, there is no more.

20:15 <CoderForLife> oic

20:15 <CoderForLife> no more for me either

20:16 <CoderForLife> gn

20:27 <xcamel> laterz..

20:40 <MTughan> Well, crud...

20:40 <MTughan> Put BOINC in the VM, get it set up... And there's no setting to let it have 4 cores. VirtualBox only sets one core apart for the VM.

20:45 <MTughan> Yep, doesn't support SMP in the guest.

20:51 <MTughan> I suppose I could run 4 VMs at once with CLIs only and low memory requirements, but that seems stupid.

20:57 <PovAddict> told ya

20:57 * PovAddict just wasted an hour of his life

20:59 <MTughan> When did you tell me?

21:00 <PovAddict> [19:39] <PovAddict> I can't start doing anything because I know in a few minutes Dad will come and interrupt me and make me do useless stuff

21:00 <MTughan> Oh, I thought you meant about the missing SMP support...

21:01 <wdsmia> wasted an hour of his life... most of us count that in wasted years

21:03 <PovAddict> I also wasted most of this month, no progress in my project

21:04 <PovAddict> and didn't do anything too useful at w$%&... helped fix what got broke

21:07 <xcamel> decades, Doug... decades...

21:07 <wdsmia> lol yep

21:08 <PovAddict> wdsmia: you got a machine with 12MB CPU cache don't you?

21:10 <wdsmia> nope

21:10 <PovAddict> hmm then who was it...

21:14 <wdsmia> I think the Q9550 Core 2 Quad has 12

21:15 <wdsmia> my I7 only has 6 :(

21:27 <xcamel>

21:27 <Romulus> <> (at

21:29 <MTughan> When magma/lava meets water...

21:29 <MTughan> Fire and water.

21:38 <xcamel> amazing pictures

21:38 <jasong>

21:38 <Romulus> Title: BBC NEWS | Business | US lawmakers vote for bonus tax (at

21:38 <jasong> This just proves that the United States government doesn't respect the Constitution

21:38 <xcamel> unconstitutional, by the way

21:39 <jasong> yes

21:39 <xcamel> it's a pure 'bill of attainder'

21:40 <jasong> The United States of America is dead, and has been for a while, we're a governmental zombie

21:40 <MTughan> Yeah, and sometimes it looks like the US just wants to fuck the rest of the world over.

21:40 <wdsmia> asks MTughan to please watch his or her language… Thanks, your friendly channel op.

21:41 <xcamel> spoken like a true canadian

21:41 <MTughan> Capitalism screws over just about everyone except for possibly a priviledged few. An all capitalist market will tear itself to shreds.

21:42 <xcamel> not true, not even close.

21:42 <xcamel> read Edmund Burke.

21:43 <MTughan> What happened in Russia and France?

21:43 <MTughan> Actually, France was more monarchy... But Russia.

21:44 <MTughan> Wow, my keyboard's dirty...

21:45 <xcamel> russia was a monarchy also

21:46 <xcamel> communism and socialism cannot exist in a vacuum

21:46 <MTughan> I thought it happened somewhere...

21:46 <xcamel> china was a hellhole until they "discovered" capitalism

21:47 <MTughan> Yeah, China's a weird merger between the two.

21:47 <xcamel> france is a miserable socialist failure

21:47 <MTughan> Oh? Explain.

21:47 <jasong> @MT, the US government hasn't been a government of the people for a very long time, that's why the bailout managed to happen even though most people are against it

21:47 <xcamel> just look at their economic stats

21:48 <xcamel> oh, and 801% of the country is out on strike atm

21:49 <xcamel> 80% that is..

21:49 <MTughan> And why isn't the US?

21:50 <xcamel> we're not that stupid

21:51 <xcamel> private enterprise is still the engine of the economy

21:51 <MTughan> No, because employees aren't allowed to join unions.

21:51 <xcamel> again, not true.

21:52 <xcamel> where are you getting feed this tripe?

21:52 <xcamel> oh yeah.. public schools.

21:52 <MTughan> All right, those are stats for Wal-Mart. I know Wal-Mart strongly discourages unions.

21:53 <xcamel> walmart also just gave out $2 billion in bonuses and 401K payments to employees...

21:53 <MTughan> Employees or execs?

21:53 <xcamel> no need for a criminal union enterprise to interfere

21:53 <xcamel> employees...

21:55 <xcamel> anyway.. off with me...

21:56 <PovAddict>,28757,1883644,00.html?cnn=yes

21:56 <Romulus> <> (at

21:57 <PovAddict> look who's 3rd

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21:58 <MTughan> Who's Jim Cramer?

21:59 <PovAddict> oh damn, the ranking is changing constantly

21:59 <PovAddict> I meant "moot"

21:59 <PovAddict> who seems to be first now

21:59 <MTughan> Ah, Obama?

22:00 <PovAddict> "moot" is 4chan founder

22:00 <MTughan> Oh, didn't see him... Why?

22:01 <PovAddict> are you looking at the list titled "Your Votes"?

22:01 <MTughan> No.

22:01 <PovAddict> it's below the picture

22:02 <MTughan> Ah, it's in a flash app that NoScript blocked...

22:02 <PovAddict> now "The View" is first, whatever that is

22:03 <PovAddict> only 4 thousand votes but first in rating

22:03 <MTughan> The View? Oh great...

22:04 <MTughan> Didn't know who it was at first, but now I know...

22:04 <PovAddict> I still don't

22:05 <MTughan> I'm not fully sure, but I believe it's a controversial crew of 5 women who host a show called "The View."

22:06 <MTughan>

22:06 <Romulus> Title: The View - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at

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22:52 <XioNYC> At the risk of opening a can of worms, although I concede that moot has definitely been influential, keep in mind that Time magazine also refused to recognize Hitler as man of the century.  Albert Einstein may have been the man we looked to for understanding, but the vast majority of the 20th century was spent reconciling the damage left in the wake of a murdering dictator.

22:53 <XioNYC> *That's* influence.

22:54 <MTughan> Even if it's not exactly influence we'd like to acknowledge.

22:54 * XioNYC shuts up.

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