IRC logs of #boinc for Wednesday, 2009-04-15

00:02 <PovAddict> having an ipod touch doesnt help... (I just got into bed!)

00:02 <MTughan> It's even worse than a laptop in some ways.

00:02 <PovAddict> although it's generally useful... I even use it as a time machine

00:03 <MTughan> ?

00:03 <PovAddict> while in the train, I write notes on it, and time accelerates

00:03 <MTughan> Ah... :)

00:04 <PovAddict> I have several paragraphs explaining problems with the current boinc scrrensaver graphics and related ideas

00:06 <PovAddict> with *better* security than now (although I have yet to see how easy the Windows security is, and whether the Linux security would slow down the gfx code)

00:06 <PovAddict> needs testing in the real world

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01:59 <jasong> Is it possible to prioritize internet packets by port number?

02:00 <jasong> My dad constantly complains about me using up bandwidth, so I want to send my torrent program to the end of the queue.  That way I can tell it to take all that's offered it without anyone complaining

02:01 <jasong> Getting more bandwidth by taking a lower ranking, ironic, huh?

02:01 <jasong> There's a Christian witnessing opportunity hidden in there somewhere, I think

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02:40 <zombie67> I know ISPs can packet-prioritize

02:40 <zombie67> can and do

02:40 <zombie67> not sure about routers

02:41 <efc> Yes, I think it is, you might look up QUality of Service

02:41 <efc> see if your router supports

02:47 <efc> &wx 31088

02:47 <Romulus> efc: Temperature: 50F / 10C | Humidity: 77% | Pressure: 29.91in / 1013hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: NW | Wind Speed: 9mph / 15km/h ; Tonight - Mostly clear. Lows in the upper 40s. Northwest winds 5 to 15 mph.; Wednesday - Mostly sunny. Highs in the lower 70s. Northwest winds 10 to 15 mph.; Wednesday Night - Mostly clear. Lows in the mid 40s. Northwest winds 5 to 10 mph.;

02:58 *** desti_T2 is now known as desti

03:02 <zombie67> &wx 94568

03:02 <Romulus> zombie67: Temperature: 45.1F / 7.3C | Humidity: 60% | Pressure: 29.91in / 1012.8hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: WNW | Wind Speed: 8.0mph / 12.9km/h ; Rest of Tonight - Clear. Lows in the mid 30s. Northwest winds 10 to 15 mph.; Wednesday - Sunny. Highs in the lower 60s. Northwest winds around 10 mph increasing to 15 to 20 mph in the afternoon.; Wednesday Night - Mostly clear. (1 more message)

03:02 <zombie67> &more

03:02 <Romulus> zombie67: Lows in the lower 40s. West winds 5 to 15 mph.;

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03:37 <Soul_keeper> &weather 91977

03:37 <Romulus> Soul_keeper: Temperature: 52.7F / 11.5C | Humidity: 69% | Pressure: 29.29in / 991.8hPa (Steady) | Conditions: Mostly Cloudy | Wind Direction: South | Wind Speed: 3.4mph / 5.5km/h ; Tonight - Mostly cloudy with a slight chance of rain. Lows 41 to 50. Winds southwest 15 to 20 mph. Gusts to 35 mph...becoming 30 mph overnight. Chance of measurable precipitation 20 percent.; Wednesday - Patchy fog in (2 more messages)

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04:37 <ELGono> &weather meiningen,germany

04:37 <Romulus> ELGono: Temperature: 61°F / 16°C | Humidity: 48% | Pressure: 29.89in / 1012hPa | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: SE | Wind Speed: 5mph / 7km/h | Updated: 10:20 AM CEST; Clear. High:69 F.; Clear. Low:48 F.; Partly Cloudy. High:69 F.; Rain. Low:44 F.; Chance of Rain. High:53 F.; Chance of Rain. Low:41 F.;

04:46 <CoderForLife> &wx 45140

04:46 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Temperature: 42.4F / 5.8C | Humidity: 91% | Pressure: 29.86in / 1011.1hPa (Steady) | Conditions: Overcast | Wind Direction: East | Wind Speed: 1.7mph / 2.7km/h ; Today - Cloudy. Scattered showers this morning...then isolated showers this afternoon. Highs in the lower 50s. Northwest winds around 10 mph. Chance of rain 50 percent.; Tonight - Cloudy in the evening...then becoming partly (1 more message)

04:46 <CoderForLife> &more

04:46 <Romulus> CoderForLife: cloudy. Lows around 40. Northeast winds 5 to 10 mph.; Thursday - Mostly sunny. Highs in the mid 60s. East winds 5 to 10 mph.;

04:49 <ELGono> moo don

04:49 <CoderForLife> moo ELGono

04:50 * CoderForLife studies the output of SQLite EXPLAIN and EXPLAIN QUERY PLAN

04:52 * CoderForLife then studies the possibilities for breakfast

04:52 <CoderForLife> brb

04:58 <CoderForLife> b

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05:07 <Tank_Master> &wx 97123

05:08 <Romulus> Tank_Master: Temperature: 37.2F / 2.9C | Humidity: 85% | Pressure: 29.88in / 1011.7hPa (Steady) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: NW | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Tonight - Partly cloudy. Scattered showers in the evening...then a slight chance of showers after midnight. Lows around 35. Northwest wind 5 to 15 mph becoming light late.; Wednesday - Mostly cloudy in the morning...then partly (1 more message)

05:08 <Tank_Master> &more

05:08 <Romulus> Tank_Master: sunny. Highs around 55. Northwest wind 5 to 10 mph.; Wednesday Night - Partly cloudy. Lows 35 to 40. South wind 5 to 10 mph.;

05:24 <Tank_Master> gn ye all

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05:39 <KathrynM> yay!  got 64 bit flash working

05:39 <CoderForLife> congrats

05:39 <KathrynM> turns out I was trying to use 32 bit flash in 64 bit firefox

05:39 <CoderForLife> I *hate* it when that happens

05:39 <KathrynM> I gotta move my scripts over as well as my crontab

05:40 <CoderForLife> those are important

05:40 <KathrynM> this weekend I'll have to get the dev stuff for BOINC installed

05:40 <CoderForLife> go back - it's a trap

05:41 <CoderForLife> save yourself

05:42 * CoderForLife struggles with SQL performance under SQLite

05:43 <CoderForLife> well - enough of this - time to get ready for w@#%

05:43 * CoderForLife goes from the frying pan into the fire

05:44 <CoderForLife> bbiab

05:46 <Soul_keeper> HEY CoderForLife KathrynM !!!

05:46 <KathrynM> hiya

05:46 <Soul_keeper> :)

06:00 <XioNYC> &wx LGA

06:00 <Romulus> XioNYC: Temperature: 44F / 7C | Humidity: 82% | Pressure: 29.94in / 1014hPa (Falling) | Conditions: Light Rain | Wind Direction: ENE | Wind Speed: 13mph / 20km/h ; Today - Cloudy. Rain likely this morning...then a chance of rain this afternoon. Windy with highs in the lower 50s. Northeast winds 15 to 25 mph with gusts up to 35 mph. Chance of rain 60 percent.; Tonight - Mostly cloudy with a slight (1 more message)

06:00 <XioNYC> &more

06:00 <Romulus> XioNYC: chance of rain in the evening...then partly cloudy after midnight. Breezy with lows around 40. Northeast winds 15 to 20 mph with gusts up to 30 mph. Chance of rain 20 percent.; Thursday - Sunny and breezy. Highs in the upper 50s. Northeast winds 15 to 20 mph with gusts up to 30 mph.;

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06:14 <wdsmia> &wx 50319

06:14 <Romulus> wdsmia: Temperature: 36.0F / 2.2C | Humidity: 90% | Pressure: 30.10in / 1019.2hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: ENE | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Today - Sunny. High in the mid 60s. East wind near 10 mph shifting to the southeast in the afternoon.; Tonight - Partly cloudy. Low in the lower 40s. Southeast wind 5 to 15 mph.; Thursday - Partly sunny. High in the upper 60s. (1 more message)

06:14 <wdsmia> &more

06:14 <Romulus> wdsmia: Southeast wind 10 to 20 mph.;

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06:16 <Soul_keeper> http://sterlingdesktops.com/digcam26/IMG_0486.JPG   stainless steel gliders :)

06:16 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/dje25w> (at sterlingdesktops.com)

06:17 <Soul_keeper> http://sterlingdesktops.com/digcam26/IMG_0489.JPG

06:17 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/c2haln> (at sterlingdesktops.com)

06:32 <CoderForLife> out the door - laterz

06:33 <Soul_keeper> good luck

06:33 <CoderForLife> thx - I'll need it

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07:24 * Soul_keeper hears crickets

07:29 <Soul_keeper> http://stats.free-dc.org   is pretty nice

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11:13 <Tank_Master> woot, my atom parts will be here friday :)

11:48 <Soul_keeper> cool

12:31 <Tank_Master> wonder if you can overclock an atom

12:37 <Soul_keeper> maybe

12:37 <Soul_keeper> you could oc the C7 ... should be able to oc the atom

12:38 <Tank_Master> wonder what liquid nitrogen could do... :P

12:38 <PovAdct_w> kill you

12:38 <Tank_Master> no, it wouldnt kill, the could would

12:38 <Soul_keeper> the atom sucks

12:38 <PovAdct_w> liquid nitrogen expands a *lot* when turning back into gas

12:38 <Soul_keeper> it's inferior to everything

12:39 <Tank_Master> no it aint

12:39 <Tank_Master> beats the performance of the P3s

12:39 <Soul_keeper> my athlon xp 2000+ is faster and it's like 6yrs old

12:39 <PovAdct_w> ie. a small amount of liquid nitrogen expands intoto a lot of nitrogen gas, and it *displaces oxygen*

12:39 <Tank_Master> and the amd geod

12:39 <Soul_keeper> amd geod was in a 100 dollar laptop and is now discontinued ... what do you expect

12:40 <Tank_Master> the aton isnt ment to be an i7 replacement

12:40 <PovAdct_w> your body is prepared to ignore high amounts of nitrogen so you won't even notice, you'll just pass out

12:40 <Tank_Master> its ment to get the job done with as litle power as possible

12:40 <Soul_keeper> no the atom was meant to be inferior to everything

12:40 <Soul_keeper> an underclocked c2d is more efficient

12:40 <Tank_Master> its outperforms my P4 3.0

12:41 <Soul_keeper> I doubt that Tank_Master

12:41 <Tank_Master> and the c2d would consume a lot more power

12:41 <PovAdct_w> "As liquid nitrogen evaporates it will reduce the oxygen concentration in the air and might act as an asphyxiant, especially in confined spaces. Nitrogen is odourless, colourless and tasteless, and may produce asphyxia without any sensation or prior warning"

12:41 <Soul_keeper> no

12:41 <Tank_Master> my P4 3.0 gets 650 RAC, the atom dual core gets closer to 800

12:41 <Soul_keeper> the P4 kills it in benchmarks, and an underclocked/undervolted c2d wins

12:42 <Tank_Master> theres no was a c2d can consume 4w

12:42 <Soul_keeper> is that 800 counting a gpu ?

12:42 <Tank_Master> no, on its own

12:42 <Soul_keeper> Tank_Master, you must consider the chipset being used as well

12:43 <Tank_Master> a compleate atom system, hd, dvd, mobo, ram, cpu, chipset... consumes on average 25w

12:43 <Soul_keeper> c2d wins trust me, you can volt them down to 1v and keep a competitive clock speed, and it'll smash the atom

12:43 <Tank_Master> at full load

12:43 <Tank_Master> 1v? thats a lot comparied to an atom

12:43 <Soul_keeper> my OVERCLOCKED c2d system consume 60w

12:44 <Tank_Master> no gpu?

12:44 <Tank_Master> no HD?

12:44 <Soul_keeper> integrated intel graphics

12:44 <Soul_keeper> hd yes

12:44 <Tank_Master> so same as the atom

12:44 <Soul_keeper> 1.55v @ 3GHz

12:44 <Tank_Master> what chipset?

12:45 <Tank_Master> the atom uses the g45

12:45 <Soul_keeper> 945G

12:45 <Tank_Master> so the same

12:45 <Tank_Master> (couldnt remember exactly right off the name)

12:45 <Tank_Master> and 60w is way more than 25w

12:46 <Soul_keeper> that's a 40% overclock, and twice the lowest number in the voltage range for the intel spec on the c2d

12:47 <Tank_Master> how much dose the compleate system cost?

12:48 <Tank_Master> my atom costed me under $200 for everything, case, ps, hd, dvd, ram, mobo/cpu

12:48 <Soul_keeper> my c2d cost under 200 as well :)

12:48 <Tank_Master> all new parts?

12:49 <Soul_keeper> built 2 of them for 400 bucks over 2yrs ago

12:50 <Soul_keeper> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-atom-efficiency,2069-11.html  not exactely perfect for a matchup  but you get an idea,  i'd have to read more to see his exact voltages and such

12:50 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/96g3r3> (at www.tomshardware.com)

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12:55 <Soul_keeper> looks like they didn't even underclock the c2d in that review, left it at 2.53GHz

12:58 <Soul_keeper> the atom might be fun to play with tho, i'm assuming you got the HT one,  so you might get better comparisons

13:01 <Tank_Master> c2d 7400 - $120, mobo - $35, 2x512 mem - $14, HD - $40, DVD - $20, -- thats already over $200, still need a case n PS

13:01 <Tank_Master> all atoms have HT

13:02 <Tank_Master> and I did get the dual core, whereas that atticle only has a single core

13:02 <Soul_keeper> the original ones were single thread capable no HT as far as I know (which that one was)

13:03 <Soul_keeper> yeah they don't sell the cheaper c2d's anymore, but they used to sell them in combo deals at fry's and the motherboard would basically be free

13:04 <Soul_keeper> so yeah you got a good deal I guess ...

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13:07 <Tank_Master> it costed me $206 for all the parts for my atom

13:07 <Soul_keeper> not bad

13:07 <Tank_Master> I bought 2 for $275 (with shipping) though one im reusing my case, PS and HD

13:08 <Tank_Master> oh, and I already had a stick of 2GB ram as well

13:08 <Soul_keeper> well that's cheating then :)

13:08 <Tank_Master> I did, however, find a mobo with dual channle DDR2

13:08 <Tank_Master> for the atom

13:08 <Tank_Master> and it has 2 PCI and 1 1x PCI-e

13:09 <Soul_keeper> we'll compare benchmarks to my 2000+ and 800MHz Eeepc  when you get it hooked up

13:09 <Tank_Master> ok :)

13:09 <Tank_Master> should be interesting

13:09 <Tank_Master> I asicly got it as a file server n backup PC

13:10 <Tank_Master> though ill run BOINC on it to

13:10 <Tank_Master> 4 GB should be nice for win7

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14:27 <MTughan> Tank_Master: My roommate wants 8GB. xD

14:28 <MTughan> He's possibly looking at a new machine over the summer, not sure yet.

14:28 <MTughan> Essentially, his parents want to replace the P4 that is, as I understand it, 6-7 years old.

14:28 <MTughan> So either they get a new computer, or they get my roommate's laptop and he gets a new machine.

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15:25 <MTughan> Soul_keeper: Wow, you got a big jump yesterday...

15:25 <Soul_keeper> :)

15:26 <MTughan> Heh, all your GPUGRID WUs coming in... Nice. :)

15:26 <MTughan> I've only been getting ~3500/day since moving to all WCG. Hopefully MW GPU comes up soon...

15:26 <MTughan> Apparently, the project is ready to go, they just need to get Apache to point to the right directory.

15:27 <yoyo[RKN]> &wx sxf

15:27 <Romulus> yoyo[RKN]: Temperature: 57°F / 14°C | Humidity: 55% | Pressure: 29.92in / 1013hPa | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: East | Wind Speed: 9mph / 15km/h | Updated: 9:20 PM CEST; Clear. High:71 F.; Clear. Low:48 F.; Clear. High:73 F.; Chance of Rain. Low:48 F.; Chance of Rain. High:59 F.; Chance of Rain. Low:44 F.;

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15:35 <MTughan> yoyo[RKN]: Want me to remake GMP-ECM with version 4.3.0?

15:35 <yoyo[RKN]> have doubts that it is faster

15:35 <MTughan> with GMP version 4.3.0*

15:36 <MTughan> All right.

15:36 <yoyo[RKN]> read nothing about speed improvements until now

15:36 <MTughan> What's the latest GMP-ECM? 6.2.2 or 6.2.3?

15:36 <MTughan> Or something else?

15:37 <yoyo[RKN]> hmm

15:37 <yoyo[RKN]> think 6.2.2

15:37 <MTughan> Yep, looks that way...

15:37 <MTughan> There have been links to Linux builds of ecm with the new GMP version, I suppose we'll have to wait for some benchmarks.

15:38 <yoyo[RKN]> yes

15:38 <MTughan> I'm going for lunch. bbl

15:42 <Soul_keeper> http://sterlingdesktops.com/niceboinc.png :)

16:13 <MTughan> lol... The name looks odd. :P

16:14 <MTughan> Looks like OS X doesn't have nice levels despite its BSD roots. Probably something about the Mach kernel compared to the Linux kernel.

16:15 <MTughan> So it's a Linux only tool.

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16:20 <Soul_keeper> yup

16:20 <Soul_keeper> I just slapped it together real fast

16:21 <Soul_keeper> runs a few different bash scripts behind the scenes,  could do it all in C  but it's easier that way

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16:23 <Soul_keeper> MTughan, so these guys are wrong then ?   http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=126007

16:23 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/ckgrcu> (at forums.macrumors.com)

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16:23 <MTughan> It's quite possible OS X has nice levels, I just can't find them.

16:24 <PovAddict> it does, like any Unix

16:24 <Soul_keeper> no   nice/renice command ?

16:24 <MTughan> PovAddict: Okay. I just couldn't find the nice levels in top, ps, or Activity Monitor.

16:26 <MTughan> Discussion started because of this: http://sterlingdesktops.com/niceboinc.png

16:26 <MTughan> <Soul_keeper> I just slapped it together real fast

16:26 <MTughan> <Soul_keeper> runs a few different bash scripts behind the scenes,  could do it all in C  but it's easier that way

16:27 <PovAddict> you could also edit a single line of boinc core client and recompile

16:27 <Soul_keeper> yeah I considered that also

16:27 <Soul_keeper> but some projects operate with wrappers and such

16:27 <PovAddict> nice level is inherited

16:27 <Soul_keeper> don't think it works that way

16:29 <PovAddict> boinc sets nice level on the wrapper, and when the wrapper starts the worker app, the worker app will inherit the wrapper's nice level, whatever it is

16:29 <PovAddict> without the wrapper doing anything special

16:30 <Soul_keeper> I'm skeptical

16:31 <PovAddict> run "nice bash", then run a program from bash, see if that program gets the higher nice level

16:31 <MTughan> Got a question for you BOINCers: Been pricing out system for my roommate. He does a little bit of gaming, plus possibly some BOINCing for me, so I was wondering what would be better:

16:32 <MTughan> An Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 @ 3GHz, or an AMD Phenom II X3 720 BE @ 2.8GHz. Both would probably be overclocked.

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16:39 <Soul_keeper> dual vs. tri   i'd definately go with the tri

16:40 <MTughan> Considering both are about the same price.

16:40 <Soul_keeper> is that 8400 45nm ?

16:40 <MTughan> Should be.

16:41 <Soul_keeper> the X3 has the possibility to unlock the 4th core according to rumours, dunno if the roommate is that extreme tho (I personally prolly wouldn't try)

16:41 <MTughan> It is, but there is a good chance the 4th is defective, which is why it's an X3 now.

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16:44 <Soul_keeper> the e8400 is infact 45nm, which means it'll likely overclock slightly better than the X3

16:45 <Soul_keeper> also a few things to consider here, amd is just getting started on the am3  while intel is effectively wanting to kill off 775

16:46 <MTughan> Yep.

16:46 <Soul_keeper> so could get a better future upgrade path going the amd route between those two

16:46 <MTughan> I have a Core i7 build included, but it's about $300 more.

16:46 <MTughan> And Core i5 probably won't be out until October now.

16:47 <Soul_keeper> I heard i5 was another socket ...

16:47 <MTughan> It is. >_>

16:47 <Soul_keeper> don't sound fun to me

16:47 <MTughan> But it'll cheaper than i7.

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16:48 <Soul_keeper> if I was building a system right now i'd choose amd, just my choice tho.

16:48 <Soul_keeper> new AMD chips next week I heard

16:49 <MTughan> There are?

16:49 <MTughan> Ah, new X4s...

16:50 <Soul_keeper> not sure on the specifics

16:50 <MTughan> TechReport report says 3.2GHz.

16:51 <Soul_keeper> if nothing changes that would mean it would equate to about a 3GHz Q9xxx

16:52 <MTughan> Nice.

16:52 <Soul_keeper> clock for clock the Q9xxx is about 100-200mhz faster than the current 45nm PII X4's

16:53 <Soul_keeper> depending on the apps you look at I suppose. but generally speaking

16:53 <MTughan> Which puts the C2D about 300-400MHz faster than the X3 I was looking at.

16:53 <MTughan> Overclocking should take care of that difference somewhat.

16:53 <MTughan> Depending.

16:54 <Soul_keeper> the chatter on the forums seems to indicate that the X4's and X3's  can make it to 3.6GHz fairly easily

16:55 <Soul_keeper> every now and then someone pushes a C2D/Q to 4GHz  but usually with voltage that's higher than what i'd use

16:55 <MTughan> What cooling? Air or water?

16:55 <Soul_keeper> air

16:56 <Soul_keeper> all black edition X4's are unlocked tho, so basically aimed at overclockers

16:57 <MTughan> Yeah, this is a Black Edition X3.

16:57 <Soul_keeper> nice

16:58 <MTughan> The whole machine for the X3 comes out to $1366 CDN after taxes.

16:58 <MTughan> The aforementioned X3, 8GB of DDR2-800 RAM, a GTS 250, 500W PSU.

16:58 <Soul_keeper> ahhh  the memory+motherboard  ...

16:59 <MTughan> The MB is $140. It's a Gigabyte GA-MA790X-UD4P.

17:00 <MTughan> The Core 2 Duo machine has the exact same specs, except for the CPU and MB.

17:06 <CoderForLife> hey-lo

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17:09 <Soul_keeper> hi

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17:12 <Tank_Master> looks like I can build a brand new i7 comp (new everything) for about $800 with 3GB ram and a GeForce 250 (1GB)

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17:14 <MTughan> Tank_Master: Are you reusing anything? The Core i7 comp I priced out is ~$1275USD.

17:14 <Tank_Master> no

17:14 <Tank_Master> like I said, new everything

17:14 <MTughan> Huh...

17:15 <Soul_keeper> newegg :)

17:15 <PovAddict> &currency convert 1275 usd ars

17:15 <Romulus> PovAddict: 1275.00 usd = 4686.26 ars

17:15 <MTughan> Newegg here too.

17:15 <PovAddict> eep

17:15 <Tank_Master> all parts from newegg to, so I might get some things cheeper other places

17:15 <Soul_keeper> btw  tigerdirect bought what's left of circuit city, they also have compusa

17:15 <Tank_Master> leme finish off the list and ill make it public

17:15 <MTughan> The only "perks" in this is a Blu-Ray disc reader, and 6GB of RAM.

17:15 <Soul_keeper> they are claiming prices in the stores will compare to the ones on their website

17:15 <wdsmia> re-hi

17:16 <MTughan> And a Xigmatek cooler, but that doesn't account for $400 difference.

17:17 <Soul_keeper> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231166   this memory looks like one of the best deals on the egg

17:17 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/2pd9bb> (at www.newegg.com)

17:18 <Soul_keeper> i've had it in my shopping cart for a week ...

17:18 <MTughan> I think TechReport found a better deal... One sec.

17:18 <Tank_Master> I went with corseair 3x2GB for $75

17:19 <Soul_keeper> wouldn't that make you run single channel mode ?

17:19 <MTughan> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134582

17:19 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/5hg5xp> (at www.newegg.com)

17:19 <MTughan> Soul_keeper: No... i7 is triple-channel.

17:19 <Soul_keeper> so he got 6GB of ddr3 for 75 bucks ... impressive

17:19 <MTughan> Very...

17:20 <MTughan> &currency convert 187 CAD to USD

17:20 <Romulus> MTughan: 187.00 cad = 155.28 usd

17:20 <MTughan> That's 3x2GB DDR3-1333 from Corsair...

17:20 <MTughan> Tank_Master: Did you get 3x2GB or 3x1GB?

17:21 <Soul_keeper> I like that g.skill 1066 deal better than the kingston one

17:21 <Tank_Master> 3x2

17:21 <MTughan> WTF... Why is my kit 2x the price of yours then?

17:21 <Soul_keeper> free shipping :) only 10 bucks more and faster with same timings + heatspreaders

17:22 *** MTughan_ has joined #boinc

17:22 *** MTughan has quit IRC

17:22 <Tank_Master> what size of HD did you get?

17:23 <MTughan_> I pulled out my Ethernet cord... :(

17:23 <MTughan_> 640GB WD.

17:23 *** MTughan_ is now known as MTughan

17:23 <MTughan> Model number WD6400AAKS

17:23 <MTughan> &currency convert 87.5 CAD to USD

17:23 <Romulus> MTughan: 87.50 cad = 72.66 usd

17:28 <MTughan> http://pastebin.com/d3ff74986

17:28 <Romulus> Title: pastebin - collaborative debugging tool (at pastebin.com)

17:28 <MTughan> Remember the prices are in CAD though.

17:30 *** siofwolves has quit IRC

17:30 <Tank_Master> http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=10501272

17:30 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/cklg4c> (at secure.newegg.com)

17:30 <MTughan> Oh, I suppose I could've done that... :)

17:31 <Tank_Master> did that work? :P

17:31 <Tank_Master> ahh, u included the OS

17:31 <MTughan> Hmm... Wonder if DDR3 1066 compared to DDR3 1333 is really that much cheaper...

17:32 <MTughan> Also, that's Crucial, not Corsair RAM.

17:34 <MTughan> Found the kit at the Canadian site though... $91.5, cheaper than $160.

17:34 <MTughan> Or $187...

17:34 <PovAddict> &currency convert 27.99 usd ars

17:34 <Romulus> PovAddict: 27.99 usd = 102.88 ars

17:34 <PovAddict> :/

17:34 <MTughan> ?

17:35 <PovAddict> a book

17:35 <PovAddict> used, too

17:35 <PovAddict> 45 USD new

17:36 <MTughan> Tank_Master: You might want to check the review on that RAM... Reviews on the Canadian site says it's incompatible with Gigabyte boards.

17:36 <MTughan> Oh, the sites same the same reviews...

17:37 <MTughan> sites share*

17:39 <MTughan> So, $400 difference... My RAM is about $100 of that, OS is just over $100 of that. That leaves about $170-$180 unaccounted for just yet...

17:39 <MTughan> And that's probably in the case and optical drive. My roommate like NZXT's Apollo, which runs for about $85CAD at Newegg, and he'd like the Blu-Ray reader.

17:41 <Tank_Master> crap

17:41 <Tank_Master> Im not used to incompatibiliity as I usualy go with kingston

17:41 <MTughan> Hmm... Is a 450W PSU enough for a 920 with a GTS 250?

17:41 <Tank_Master> oh yeah

17:42 <MTughan> Hmm... Might downgrade the PSU to the one I have in the C2D and X3 builds then.

17:42 <Tank_Master> seen some itx mobos running core2quads with a 250 on a 350w PS

17:42 <MTughan> That'd cut at least $50 off.

17:43 <MTughan> Well, I was just wondering. Because I've seen my C2Q build pull at least 400W from the wall.

17:43 <Tank_Master> I ran a core2duo with a geforce 7900 on a 350 w/o issues

17:43 <Tank_Master> that 400 depends on the effecency of the PS

17:44 <MTughan> It's a PC Power and Cooling Silencer 750, which means about 80% or higher.

17:44 <Tank_Master> if irs only a 65% effecent,. then the load os around 300w

17:44 <MTughan> &math 400 * 0.8

17:44 <Romulus> MTughan: 320

17:45 <Tank_Master> *math 400 * 0.65

17:45 <Tank_Master> &math 400 * 0.65

17:45 <Romulus> Tank_Master: 260

17:45 <MTughan> I could maybe see 350W internally with the further overclocks I've put in. So it looks like 750W was overkill for this. :P

17:45 <Tank_Master> lol

17:45 <MTughan> I was looking at an OCZ ModXStream Pro 500W for this. It's a modular PSU.

17:45 *** mweltin has quit IRC

17:46 <Tank_Master> might be good for expandibility and longgevity

17:46 <MTughan> Which one? The 500 or the 750W?

17:46 <Tank_Master> 500

17:46 <Tank_Master> same with the 750

17:46 <MTughan> Yep, and modular means easier cable runs.

17:46 <Tank_Master> &math 750 * 0.2

17:46 <Romulus> Tank_Master: 150

17:48 <Tank_Master> most PS's effecency go way down when at a load under 20%, so your 750w would still be fine

17:48 <MTughan> The thing is I can actually get the PSU cheaper at a retail store than at Newegg.

17:48 <MTughan> Yeah.

17:48 <MTughan> A 1200W on the other hand...

17:48 <MTughan> &math 1200 * 0.2

17:48 <Romulus> MTughan: 240

17:48 <MTughan> With the GPU not crunching, I could believe that my internal load is somewhere around 180W.

17:49 <MTughan> Which would even be stressing my 750W somewhat... But oh well.

17:49 <Tank_Master> &math 350 / 1200

17:49 <Romulus> Tank_Master: 0.291666666667

17:49 <MTughan> lol

17:49 <Tank_Master> so 30%

17:49 <Tank_Master> just keep gpugrid runing and youll be fine :P

17:50 <MTughan> And there lies the issue... I have a Radeon HD4870 I can't keep fed from MW. :P

17:50 <Tank_Master> lol

17:50 <Tank_Master> stbu

17:50 <MTughan> STBU?

17:50 <Tank_Master> any news when the new apps will be out?

17:51 <Tank_Master> sucks to be you

17:51 <MTughan> Apparently, the GPU project is actually set it up, they're just having Apache issues now.

17:51 <MTughan> set up*

17:51 <Tank_Master> ahh

17:52 <Tank_Master> one gou on my team has like 35 4870s now

17:52 <Tank_Master> guy*

17:52 <Tank_Master> getting close to 1.75 million credits a day

17:54 <MTughan> How is he keeping them fed?

17:54 *** arfmarf has quit IRC

17:54 <Tank_Master> he has some program that will update the project every few seconds

17:54 <MTughan> Ah, one of the script f***ers...

17:55 <Tank_Master> like ever7 10 seconds

17:55 <Tank_Master> lol

17:56 <MTughan> http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=515404

17:56 <Romulus> Title: CPU-Z Validator 3.0 (at valid.canardpc.com)

17:56 <MTughan> That's my current setup and clocks.

17:56 <Tank_Master> only 3.2GHz?

17:56 <MTughan> Should I be higher?

17:56 *** arfmarf has joined #boinc

17:56 <Tank_Master> I had my qx6700 at 3.45

17:57 <MTughan> With what cooler?

17:57 <MTughan> I'm using a Zalman 9500.

17:57 <Tank_Master> thermaltake typhoon

17:57 <Tank_Master> the 120mm fan on top

17:57 <MTughan> This has a 92mm blowing through.

17:58 <Tank_Master> I upgraded the fan to one that can actually blow

17:58 <MTughan> I can't upgrade the fan in this. Not easily anyway.

17:58 *** chaelot|work has quit IRC

17:59 <Tank_Master> mine was just held on by screws

18:00 <MTughan> http://www.wallashops.co.il/upload/cot/1IWWEllPC_HIQ6600_234496_val.jpg

18:00 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/dndj5c> (at www.wallashops.co.il)

18:01 <Tank_Master> I never did care for that design

18:02 *** sigmund_ has joined #boinc

18:02 <MTughan> I've had it since the P4 5 years ago, didn't have enough money for something else.

18:02 <Tank_Master> :)

18:13 *** sigmund has quit IRC

18:19 <MTughan> Tank_Master: Got a case for you: http://www.cpu3d.com/article/7614-2/make-me-cooler-makes-a-huge-impact-at-the-i36-event/the-winning-entries.html

18:19 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/ccgwzr> (at www.cpu3d.com)

19:16 *** desti_T2 has joined #boinc

19:17 *** desti has quit IRC

19:23 <zombie67> awful long dry spell without any new projects

19:45 *** kathryn_ has joined #boinc

19:45 *** KathrynM has quit IRC

19:45 *** kathryn_ is now known as KathrynM

19:47 <MTughan> Anyone got an opinion about graphics cards?

19:47 <MTughan> These won't necessarily be used for BOINC, so I'm not worried about that.

19:48 <MTughan> I wondering which would be better: a GTS 250, GTX 260, Radeon HD4850, Radeon HD4870, or Radeon HD4890?

19:49 <MTughan> Actually, scratch the 4890... No use right now.

19:49 <MTughan> It'd be used for some gaming, probably about 1920x1080.

19:54 <wdsmia> HD4850 and HD4870 are both nice cards Boinc is limited to MW if you can find work

19:55 <MTughan> "These won't necessarily be used for BOINC"

19:55 <MTughan> They're not for me, but my roommate.

19:58 <wdsmia> they seem to run fine for my graphics but dont run many games on them

19:58 <zombie67> TM probably has an opinion

19:58 <MTughan> So Nvidia preferred for games?

19:58 <MTughan> (That's what I figured, but making sure)

20:03 *** kathryn_ has joined #boinc

20:10 <MTughan> My roommate's having fun slapping his keyboard down on his pillow... It presses the spacebar.

20:13 *** sigmund has joined #boinc

20:18 *** jasong has quit IRC

20:21 <Tank_Master> Im partial to nividia mainly cus they have better drivers for windows

20:21 *** KathrynM has quit IRC

20:22 <MTughan> Well, I know this machine will be running Vista Home Premium x64, that fact has already been decided.

20:22 <MTughan> If it materializes, that is.

20:22 *** jasong has joined #boinc

20:22 <Tank_Master> they support all windows OSs and I dont have to go in and disable stuff to get my monitor to get it to run at the maz settings

20:23 <Tank_Master> supprisingly ATI does not support server 2008

20:23 <MTughan> That doesn't surprise me.

20:23 <Tank_Master> which is suprising as ATI's video cards tend to be used in server mobos

20:23 <MTughan> Most people (in fact, everyone I know except you) don't run Server 2008 for games.

20:24 <Tank_Master> yeah, but given that most server boards have interegrated ATI graphics...

20:24 <Tank_Master> one would think they would support the server OS

20:24 <MTughan> Radeon or FireGL cards?

20:25 <Tank_Master> radion I believe

20:25 <Tank_Master> most of my server mobos I  have use the old ATI rage pro

20:26 *** sigmund_ has quit IRC

20:26 <MTughan> Hmm, not even the FireGL cards have Server 2008 specific drivers though...

20:26 <MTughan> Can you run the installers in Vista compat mode?

20:27 <Tank_Master> oh, they install ok, but its the CCC that wont run

20:27 <MTughan> And you know it requires .NET, right?

20:27 <Tank_Master> server 2008 comes with .net 2.0

20:28 <Tank_Master> just like vista

20:28 *** kathryn_ is now known as KathrynM

20:28 <MTughan> Well, the point is moot anyway... It'll be running Vista.

20:29 *** infinisoft has joined #boinc

20:29 <MTughan> But Nvidia generally has the better drivers? Ignoring the OS issue?

20:29 <Tank_Master> every time you boot, you get a message "the CCC is not compatible with sevrer 2008" and so you cant go in and disable the mechnisum to have windows detect the monitor instead of the drivers

20:29 <Tank_Master> yeah

20:29 <Tank_Master> never had a problem and they do seem to do nice on the performance

20:29 <MTughan> Then the next question is GTS 250 or GTX 260 core 216?

20:30 <Tank_Master> how much are you willing to spend?

20:30 <MTughan> Doesn't really matter.

20:30 <Tank_Master> for arend $250USD you can get the geforce 275

20:31 <MTughan> Some of the prices I've noticed:

20:31 <MTughan> GTS 250: $185 CDN

20:31 <Tank_Master> the 250 with 1GB ram is a great card to, and good on the power consumptsion

20:31 <Tank_Master> thats high

20:31 <MTughan> GTX 250: $228 CDN

20:31 <MTughan> &currency convert 185 CAD to USD

20:31 <Romulus> MTughan: 185.00 cad = 153.90 usd

20:31 <MTughan> How's that?

20:31 <Tank_Master> Ive seen the 250 for $130USD

20:32 <Tank_Master> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150357

20:32 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/cn9gsq> (at www.newegg.com)

20:32 <MTughan> I dunno... It's an XFX GTS 250 1GB from Newegg.

20:32 <MTughan> 1GB.

20:32 <MTughan> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150356

20:32 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/dyaqlu> (at www.newegg.com)

20:33 <MTughan> Although it's still about $10USD more expensive... Whatever.

20:33 <Tank_Master> oh crap, mine's the 512MB

20:33 <Tank_Master> n/m

20:33 <MTughan> Anyway, GTS 250: $185; GTX 260: $228; GTX 275: $320.

20:34 <Tank_Master> get teh 1GB then your garonteeded the new power circutry that is also much shorter PCB

20:34 <MTughan> Also because he plans on using it at 1920x1080, 1GB is a given.

20:34 <Tank_Master> 2 of the 250s will usually outperform a 285

20:34 <Tank_Master> and cost less

20:34 <MTughan> Outperform a 285 or a 275?

20:34 <Tank_Master> 285

20:35 <MTughan> Not bad.

20:35 <Tank_Master> so defently yhe 275

20:35 <MTughan> It outperforms a 275, but a 275 costs less than 2x 250. ;)

20:35 <MTughan> Anyway, while price isn't really an issue, I'm trying to keep it down, as it's his parents that are going to be paying for this.

20:36 <Tank_Master> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125266 <- that one doesnt use the reference design

20:36 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/dcau5c> (at www.newegg.com)

20:36 <MTughan> Heh, obviously... :P

20:36 <Tank_Master> in the revies I have seen, its the shortest card for all of the 9800 and 250 cards

20:36 <Tank_Master> and its super quiet

20:36 <MTughan> Same price here as the XFX card, so that'd be nice...

20:37 <Tank_Master> that should run most anything

20:37 <Tank_Master> cept crysis at 2048x1536 :P

20:38 <MTughan> You sure it's super quiet? A lot of reviews say the fan is always maxed out and loud at that point.

20:38 <Tank_Master> not from the revies I saw

20:38 <Tank_Master> it was quieter than the reference

20:38 <Tank_Master> sure, you can hear it

20:38 <MTughan> I'm looking at Newegg reviews.

20:38 <Tank_Master> ahh, ok

20:39 <Tank_Master> I was going by a hardware site

20:40 <MTughan> I think right now, I'll just stick with the XFX card.

20:41 <MTughan> So that leaves the 250, 260, and 275...

20:41 <MTughan> I may just have to hold off until I get a price range to aim for or something.

20:43 <Tank_Master> I see they have a few more of the 275s then the last time I looked

20:43 <MTughan> I only see two 275s: An EVGA, and a superclocked EVGA.

20:43 <Tank_Master> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&Description=geforce%20275&bop=And&Order=PRICE

20:43 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/d26ocs> (at www.newegg.com)

20:44 <MTughan> 0 matches.

20:44 <Tank_Master> o0

20:44 <Tank_Master> refresh?

20:44 <MTughan> Ah, just had to re-search... Something happened.

20:44 <Tank_Master> I just searched for "geforce 275"

20:44 <MTughan> Yeah. All I had to do was hit the search button and it worked.

20:47 <MTughan> Well, I'll keep this stuff in mind. Thanks TM.

20:49 <Tank_Master> np

20:49 <Tank_Master> im gona go with the 275 for mine

20:49 <Tank_Master> $110 less then the 285 and not to much difference in performance

20:50 <Tank_Master> I need to gat $775 from my 2 comps im gonna sell next week and my i7 will be compleate

21:09 <wdsmia> &wx 50319

21:09 <Romulus> wdsmia: Temperature: 60.1F / 15.6C | Humidity: 34% | Pressure: 30.12in / 1019.9hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Scattered Clouds | Wind Direction: East | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Tonight - Partly cloudy. Low in the lower 40s. Southeast wind 5 to 15 mph.; Thursday - Partly sunny. High in the upper 60s. Southeast wind 10 to 15 mph with gusts to around 25 mph.; Thursday Night - Partly cloudy. Low in (1 more message)

21:09 <wdsmia> &more

21:09 <Romulus> wdsmia: the mid 40s. Southeast wind 5 to 15 mph.;

21:14 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o wdsmia

21:33 <wdsmia> kick MTughan, PovAddict, Soul_keeper, Tank_Master, zombie67

21:33 <wdsmia> darn forgot the -exec ;)

21:35 <MTughan> Any reason why?

21:36 <wdsmia> its Wednesday

21:36 <MTughan> Heh.

21:36 <wdsmia> lol

21:40 * Tank_Master banhammers wdsmia

21:41 <wdsmia> Hmm not even any lurkers to kick tonight :(

21:41 <Tank_Master> bummer

21:41 <Tank_Master> could kick cfl, he's never around

21:42 <MTughan> &any CoderForLife

21:42 <Romulus> MTughan: CoderForLife was last seen in #boinc 4 hours, 35 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <CoderForLife> hey-lo

21:42 <Tank_Master> see?

21:42 <PovAddict> wdsmia: there are lurkers, yes

21:42 <PovAddict> &any deprecated

21:42 <Romulus> PovAddict: deprecated was last seen in #boinc 2 weeks, 4 days, 16 hours, 42 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: *** deprecated has joined #boinc

21:42 <wdsmia> dont dish the op's lol

21:42 <MTughan> 4.5 hours ago...

21:42 <PovAddict> &any Turf

21:42 <Romulus> PovAddict: Turf was last seen in #boinc 3 days, 4 hours, 46 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: *** Turf has joined #boinc

21:42 <MTughan> &seen deprecated

21:42 <Romulus> MTughan: deprecated was last seen in #boinc 14 weeks, 1 day, 4 hours, 48 minutes, and 21 seconds ago: <deprecated> Mac users, The ultimate new toy for your farm: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/92328

21:43 <PovAddict> &seen ComradeHaz

21:43 <Romulus> PovAddict: ComradeHaz was last seen in #boinc 2 weeks, 6 days, 23 hours, 38 minutes, and 28 seconds ago: <ComradeHaz> nn :)

21:43 <MTughan> So he has talked at least... xD

21:43 <PovAddict> &seen Celelibi

21:43 <Romulus> PovAddict: Celelibi was last seen in #boinc 1 year, 45 weeks, 3 days, 13 hours, 1 minute, and 32 seconds ago: <Celelibi> hi

21:43 <PovAddict> LOL

21:43 <PovAddict> beat that!

21:43 <MTughan> Just under two years ago.

21:43 <wdsmia> &seen comatose

21:43 <Romulus> wdsmia: I have not seen comatose.

21:44 <PovAddict> &seen infinisoft

21:44 <Romulus> PovAddict: infinisoft was last seen in #boinc 1 week, 5 days, 23 hours, 7 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <infinisoft> :o.

21:44 <PovAddict> &seen DrBashir

21:44 <Romulus> PovAddict: DrBashir was last seen in #boinc 6 weeks, 0 days, 21 hours, 54 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <DrBashir> my english is very poor sorry i cant understand you

21:44 <MTughan> &seen quail

21:44 <Romulus> MTughan: quail was last seen in #boinc 2 weeks, 4 days, 10 hours, 22 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <quail> hiya ladies

21:44 <MTughan> &seen sigmund

21:44 <Romulus> MTughan: I have not seen sigmund.

21:44 <MTughan> Ha!

21:44 <wdsmia> &seen spitthedog

21:44 <Romulus> wdsmia: I have not seen spitthedog.

21:44 <MTughan> &any sigmund

21:44 <Romulus> MTughan: sigmund was last seen in #boinc 1 hour, 31 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: *** sigmund has joined #boinc

21:44 <wdsmia> &seen spit

21:44 <Romulus> wdsmia: spit was last seen in #boinc 2 years, 40 weeks, 1 day, 13 hours, 13 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <Spit> hehehehehe .... see what you did to my router ... LOL

21:44 <PovAddict> &seen spit_theDog

21:44 <Romulus> PovAddict: spit_theDog was last seen in #boinc 1 year, 47 weeks, 6 days, 15 hours, 16 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <Spit_theDog> Bye for now all :)

21:45 <MTughan> PovAddict: sigmund has never talked in this channel.

21:45 <PovAddict> &any sigmund

21:45 <Romulus> PovAddict: sigmund was last seen in #boinc 1 hour, 32 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: *** sigmund has joined #boinc

21:45 <PovAddict> now that's a lurker

21:45 <MTughan> He's been here before though.

21:48 * wdsmia kicks the lurkers and the bitchers no lurkers or bots so wdsmia looks for...

21:49 *** TSPer has joined #boinc

21:49 <MTughan> :D

21:49 <PovAddict> !

21:49 <MTughan> TSPer: part

21:49 <PovAddict> &echo kick me

21:49 <Romulus> kick me

21:49 *** TSPer was kicked by wdsmia (Thank you for NOT smoking!)

21:49 *** TSPer has joined #Boinc

21:49 <MTughan> TSPer: part

21:49 *** TSPer has left #boinc

21:50 <PovAddict> "thank you for not smoking"? were you planning to kick Soul_keeper?

21:50 * wdsmia smokes

21:50 *** PovAddict was kicked by wdsmia (Did you hear something?)

21:50 *** PovAddict has joined #boinc

21:50 <PovAddict> what the hell just happened! >:|

21:51 <MTughan> [9:50pm] PovAddict was kicked from the chat room by wdsmia. (Did you hear something?)

21:51 <MTughan> [9:50pm] PovAddict joined the chat room.

21:51 <XioNYC> ¿FTW?

21:52 <wdsmia> [20:50] <PovAddict> "thank you for not smoking"? were you planning to kick Soul_keeper?

21:52 <wdsmia> [20:50] * @wdsmia smokes

21:52 <wdsmia> [20:50] * PovAddict was kicked by wdsmia (Did you hear something?)

21:52 <XioNYC> Anti-smoking discrimination...

21:52 * XioNYC lights up

21:53 <wdsmia> dont worry XioNYC your not on the sh*t list... yet

21:53 <wdsmia> :)

21:53 <XioNYC> :-D

21:53 <MTughan> wdsmia: Are you able to trip your own swearing script?

21:53 <MTughan> I think "sucks" still trips it, IIRC.

21:54 <MTughan> Oh, you've modified it. xD

21:54 <Tank_Master> http://www.theonion.com/content/video/study_children_exposed_to

21:54 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/d7q3vp> (at www.theonion.com)

21:54 <wdsmia> I wrote it so yes I can tweak it :P

21:57 <PovAddict> "Treasury Department Issues Emergency Recall Of All US Dollars" heh

21:57 <Tank_Master> lol

21:57 <Tank_Master> yeah

22:01 <XioNYC> ...as opposed to Altarian dollars?

22:05 * wdsmia has to piss off his boss tomarrow he got a federal grant for a new program $65K and 90 days delivery... I coded it in less than 6hrs

22:05 <Tank_Master> lol

22:07 <wdsmia> now he has to return the money

22:07 <wdsmia> if its approved lol

22:08 <PovAddict> lol

22:31 *** sigmund_ has joined #boinc

22:44 *** sigmund has quit IRC

23:38 <MTughan> Tank_Master: I agree with your assessment of ATI's drivers. I have an example for you.

23:39 <MTughan> Catalyst 9.4 drivers for Windows 7, downloaded specifically for Windows 7, but the installer has to be run in Vista compat to install.

23:39 * PovAddict remembers Windows XP apps with 16-bit setup.exe's

23:40 <PovAddict> eg. companies who improved their own software, maybe even making it use features new in XP or 2000, but never bought newer versions of installshield, they're stuck on the one they got for Windows 3.1

23:47 *** Nickuwo has quit IRC

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