IRC logs of #boinc for Wednesday, 2009-04-22

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00:36 <Romulus> New news from boinc: BOINC news April 21, 2009

00:50 <CoderForLife> &wx 45140

00:50 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Temperature: 40.2F / 4.6C | Humidity: 89% | Pressure: 29.73in / 1006.7hPa (Falling) | Conditions: Overcast | Wind Direction: West | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Overnight - Mostly cloudy with scattered showers. Lows in the upper 30s. West winds around 10 mph. Chance of rain 50 percent.; Wednesday - Partly sunny with scattered showers. Isolated thunderstorms in the afternoon. Highs (1 more message)

00:50 <CoderForLife> &more

00:50 <Romulus> CoderForLife: in the upper 50s. West winds 15 to 20 mph. Chance of rain 50 percent.; Wednesday Night - Partly cloudy with isolated rain showers in the evening...then mostly clear after midnight. Lows in the mid 30s. Northwest winds 15 to 20 mph with gusts up to 30 mph... becoming north 5 to 10 mph after midnight. Chance of rain 20 percent.;

01:03 <efc> &WX 31088

01:03 <Romulus> efc: Temperature: 54F / 12C | Humidity: 79% | Pressure: 29.96in / 1014hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: West | Wind Speed: 9mph / 15km/h ; Rest of Tonight - Partly cloudy. Lows in the lower 40s. West winds 5 to 15 mph.; Wednesday - Sunny. Highs in the lower 70s. West winds 5 to 15 mph increasing to 10 to 15 mph in the afternoon.; Wednesday Night - Partly cloudy. Lows around 50. (1 more message)

01:07 <PovAddict> wikipedia taught me what the things I suffer from are called

01:08 <PovAddict> or made me notice I suffer of things I didnt know existed

01:09 <PovAddict> example: it's 2am, I'm in bed and IRCing from the iTouch

01:10 <PovAddict> 'addiction'

01:11 <PovAddict> when i come to sleep and I notice I left the iPod next to the computer (other corner of the house), I feel an urge to go get it; and I feel superbored during power outages

01:11 <PovAddict> 'abstinence syndrome'

01:22 <XioNYC> Back in a few...

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01:37 <CoderForLife> well - my stuff looks like it's running OK - time to go back to bed

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01:39 * CoderForLife thinks - addiction, shmiction

01:43 <CoderForLife> I prefer to think in terms of "lifestyle" and "happiness"

01:54 <jasong> Nah, POV, it isn't an addiction, it's just that the technology isn't awesome enough yet.  You'll feel better when the interface is jacked directly into your nervous system. ;)

01:55 <jasong> Then no one will have to worry about leaving the stove on because they can ask the ubiquitous web

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05:50 <xcamel> boo

05:53 <ilyak> boincmgr is miserable

06:01 * KathrynM waves good evening

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06:40 <wdsmia> &wx 50319

06:40 <Romulus> wdsmia: Temperature: 46.7F / 8.2C | Humidity: 61% | Pressure: 29.83in / 1010.0hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Mostly Cloudy | Wind Direction: WSW | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Today - Mostly sunny. Warmer. High in the lower 70s. West wind 5 to 10 mph.; Tonight - Mostly clear. Low in the lower 50s. Southeast wind 5 to 15 mph.; Thursday - Partly sunny. Breezy. High in the upper 70s. South wind 10 to (1 more message)

06:40 <wdsmia> &more

06:40 <Romulus> wdsmia: 15 mph increasing to 20 to 25 mph in the afternoon.;

06:42 <hawmps> &wx 12020

06:42 <Romulus> hawmps: Temperature: 46.8F / 8.2C | Humidity: 95% | Pressure: 29.44in / 996.8hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Overcast | Wind Direction: SW | Wind Speed: 2.0mph / 3.2km/h ; Today - Partly sunny. Scattered showers with isolated thunderstorms this afternoon. Highs in the lower 60s. Southwest winds 5 to 10 mph. Chance of rain 40 percent.; Tonight - Mostly cloudy with a 50 percent chance of showers. Lows in (1 more message)

06:42 <hawmps> &more

06:42 <Romulus> hawmps: the lower 40s. West winds 10 to 15 mph.; Thursday - Mostly cloudy with a chance of showers in the morning... then partly sunny in the afternoon. Highs in the mid 50s. West winds 15 to 20 mph. Chance of rain 30 percent.;

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09:08 <Soul_keeper> Freddie mac CFO commited suicide

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09:10 <FreeLarry58> &google linux gdm

09:10 <Romulus> FreeLarry58: Search took 0.19 seconds: gdm ( Linux Reviews): <>; Linux Vista GDM <>; Linux : Display a login banner for Gnome ( GDM ) Desktop: <>; Linux .com :: Everything Linux and Open Source: (3 more messages)

09:11 <FreeLarry58> ah so gdmgreeter must be for gnome then - was wondering why had user gdm showing in top

09:12 <FreeLarry58> between gdm greeter and ati whatever and kjournal can use up to 60% of cpu for few seconds

09:14 <FreeLarry58> guess time to go out for coffee and see if machine locks up again while gone

09:26 <yoyo[RKN]> &wx sxf

09:26 <Romulus> yoyo[RKN]: Temperature: 54°F / 12°C | Humidity: 58% | Pressure: 30.04in / 1017hPa | Conditions: Scattered Clouds | Wind Direction: WNW | Wind Speed: 18mph / 30km/h | Updated: 3:20 PM CEST; Chance of Rain. High:62 F.; Chance of Rain. Low:41 F.; Chance of Rain. High:64 F.; Clear. Low:39 F.; Clear. High:71 F.; Clear. Low:44 F.;

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09:55 <aspin> hi, anychance of some help?

09:56 <hawmps> what do you need?

09:58 <aspin> I just installed boinc on a remote server and now I want to connect to my rosetta account but it seems a bit complicated

10:04 <aspin> I am in etc/boinc-client and now I need to use boinc_cmd

10:05 <aspin> just not sure of the correct systax

10:05 <aspin> syntax

10:05 <aspin> whatever

10:08 <aspin> is the project url

10:08 <Romulus> Title: Rosetta@home (at

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10:20 *** PovAddict_ is now known as PovAddict

10:22 <PovAddict> aspin: boinccmd --lookup_account your@email yourpassword

10:22 <Romulus> Title: Rosetta@home (at

10:22 <PovAddict> will print account key

10:22 <PovAddict> aspin: boinccmd --project_attach accountkey

10:22 <Romulus> Title: Rosetta@home (at

10:22 * PovAddict slaps Romulus

10:25 <aspin> :) I just sorted it

10:25 <aspin> thanks

10:26 <aspin> not to run the thing

10:26 <aspin> now to run it I mean

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10:30 <aspin> cool, thanks think I am up and running

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10:46 <aspin> geez I attached to the worng account, how do I detach?

10:46 <aspin> wrong

10:46 <PovAddict> --project <url> detach

10:47 <PovAddict> why do you have more than one account?

10:48 <aspin> its one I did not know I had

10:49 <aspin> same password just a slightly different email address

10:49 <aspin> its void of credit

10:49 <aspin> I will get them to remove it maybe

10:50 <aspin> --project detach

10:50 <Romulus> Title: Rosetta@home (at

10:50 <aspin> that might do it

10:51 <aspin> yes that did it, now to connect to the correct accoung

10:51 <aspin> account

10:52 <PovAddict> you could change the password of your old account, then you wouldn't attach by accident :)

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10:53 <aspin> yes, that would do it

10:53 <aspin> all ok now :)

10:54 <aspin> anyone using plesk on here?

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13:02 <Soul_keeper>

13:02 <Romulus> <> (at

13:04 <mweltin> what?

13:04 <mweltin> Soul_keeper: you always keep me guessing

13:05 <hawmps> lol

13:07 <Soul_keeper> :)

13:07 <Soul_keeper> I gotta grow me one of those

13:08 <Soul_keeper>

13:08 <Romulus> <> (at

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13:26 <Soul_keeper> "Twitter

13:26 <Soul_keeper> Definition: Telling the world what you had for breakfast/lunch/dinner in 140 characters or less. Failing that, telling one specific person (with the use of Twitter's @replies) that you did not get a seat on the train either. In short, twitter is a way for text-addicts to keep texting, even when no one will listen."

13:32 <PovAddict> it's public SMS

13:34 <Soul_keeper>    watch that american airlines video :)

13:34 <Romulus> Title: Ventrilo Harassment (at

13:42 <Soul_keeper> the internet knows who you are and where you live when you browse it

13:42 <Soul_keeper> websites are getting freaky

13:46 <PovAddict> use the onion router

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14:22 <MTughan> Soul_keeper:

14:22 <Romulus> Title: Free Product Demo | IP2Location™ (at

14:22 <MTughan> is your IP address.

14:24 <hawmps> uh-huh....

14:36 <Soul_keeper> yes I know there are methods to avoid it, and bla bla bla

14:36 <Soul_keeper> but it's just becoming increasingly more intrusive how ad companies are using this info

14:36 <Soul_keeper> like that movie in the future ...

14:36 <Soul_keeper> where you walk down the street and they recognize you and play custom ads

14:38 <PovAddict> would you rather get ads on things you aren't interested on?

14:40 <Soul_keeper> i'd rather shoot them all in the face and get no ads, if I had my choice

14:40 <Soul_keeper> but anyways ttyl

14:41 <PovAddict> of course

14:41 <Soul_keeper> i'm going to wander off and ponder the meaning of life as my tobacco supply is bout spent

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15:25 <jasong> Whenever I  start pondering The Meaning of Life, I start singing,"Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great...If a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irate."

15:30 <Soul_keeper> &grab

15:30 <Romulus> Soul_keeper: (grab [<channel>] <nick>) -- Grabs a quote from <channel> by <nick> for the quotegrabs table. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent in the channel itself.

15:30 <Soul_keeper> &grab jasong

15:30 <Soul_keeper> PovAddict !

15:30 <Romulus> Soul_keeper: The operation succeeded.

15:30 <Soul_keeper> ok

15:32 <Soul_keeper> jasong,  you'd prolly like this game thne     don't remember who posted that

15:32 <Romulus> <> (at

15:35 <PovAddict> Soul_keeper: (NSFW)

15:35 <Romulus> <> (at

15:37 <Soul_keeper> good

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16:23 <CoderForLife> home again

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16:30 <Soul_keeper>   good speach by newt last month

16:30 <Romulus> <> (at

16:30 <Soul_keeper> it's a long one tho 1.5hrs

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16:35 <PovAddict> who's newt?

16:38 <Soul_keeper>

16:38 <Romulus> Title: Newt Gingrich - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at

16:38 <PovAddict> "American politician" *stops reading*

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16:40 <Soul_keeper> that's ok I don't expect you to be informed :)

16:41 <jasong> I can't even pay attention to a good movie for more than an hour, I'd be out of the room and randomly wandering aroound about 5 minutes into the speech

16:42 <PovAddict> ADHD?

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17:11 <jasong> Kind of, except the medication never seems to work

17:11 <jasong> i think it's a form of ADHD caused by a bad birth environment

17:12 <jasong> My mom's pregnancy went for 10.5 months, and the umbilical cord got so long that the nutrients mostly went to the umbilical cord itself

17:12 <jasong> So I was suffocating and undernourished for a good length of time before birth

17:13 <jasong> I theorize that that may have cuased my brain to not develop properly

17:13 <jasong> gotta go, gonna go out to eat with someone

17:29 <wdsmia> re-hi

17:31 <Soul_keeper> hi

17:31 <Soul_keeper> I am the greatest person to ever live !!!

17:33 <PovAddict> &grab Soul_keeper

17:33 <Romulus> PovAddict: The operation succeeded.

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18:34 <KathrynM> why are they jackhammering outside my window>

18:34 <KathrynM> they're been goind since 7am

18:41 <zombie67> Grrrr!

18:41 <zombie67>

18:41 <Romulus> <> (at

18:43 <PovAddict> zombie67: possibly, if your client/computer had no CUDA support, BOINC wouldn't be asking for any work

18:43 <zombie67> how is that possible?  isn't debt per project?

18:44 <PovAddict> I have no idea... I think debt is per (project, resource) in current clients

18:44 <zombie67> that would be the dumbest thing ever.

18:44 <PovAddict> and even without considering debts, what if your GPU is idle (or has little work queued) and your CPU is overworked?

18:45 <PovAddict> it'd go ask for CUDA work

18:45 <zombie67> my GPU queue is full of SETI Beta and GPUGRID

18:46 <PovAddict> what version?

18:46 <Romulus> Somebody said what version is it, PovAddict

18:46 <zombie67> it makes no sense to have debt resource specific

18:46 <PovAddict> it does make sense, otherwise a project without CUDA would become too negative, I think

18:46 <zombie67> my resource share is not per CPU or per GPU, it is per project

18:47 <PovAddict> there is a huge mailing list thread about "resource share being stupid for current needs"

18:47 <zombie67> so either I need to get work from a project or not

18:47 <PovAddict> what version of BOINC?

18:47 <Romulus> hmm... what version of BOINC are you running, PovAddict

18:47 <zombie67> it makes no sense to say, I am short GPU tasks, but surplus CPU tasks

18:47 <zombie67> I am running 6.6.23

18:48 <PovAddict> dear god

18:48 <PovAddict> forget what version

18:48 <Romulus> 10-4!

18:48 <PovAddict> forget what version of BOINC

18:48 <Romulus> 10-4, PovAddict.

18:48 <PovAddict> zombie67: go to Projects tab, click on a project, click Properties

18:48 <zombie67> okay

18:49 <zombie67> now what?

18:49 <Romulus> hmm... now what is I doing before having to go for biology, zombie67

18:49 <PovAddict> is debt listed there?

18:49 <zombie67> there is only these two

18:50 <zombie67> CPU scheduling priority:  0.00

18:50 <PovAddict> aka short term debt

18:50 <zombie67> CPU work fetch priority:  -57455.15

18:50 <PovAddict> aka long term debt

18:50 <zombie67> nothing about GPU debt

18:50 <PovAddict> what project was that?

18:50 <zombie67> lattic

18:50 <zombie67> lattice

18:51 <zombie67> should I post this to the alpha list?

18:56 <zombie67> pov?

18:56 <Romulus> hmm... pov is usually not got for very long, zombie67

18:59 <PovAddict> is your manager the same version as the client, or are you connecting remotely with differing versions?

18:59 <PovAddict> <- it shows CUDA debts there

19:00 <zombie67> default 6.6.23 version.  same version for everything.

19:01 <zombie67> that is not what my properties pop up looks like

19:01 <PovAddict> and you don't have "NVIDIA GPU work fetch priority"?

19:01 <zombie67> nope

19:03 <zombie67> uploading a picture now.  just a sec

19:04 <zombie67>

19:05 <zombie67> ahhhh!

19:05 <zombie67> there is a scroll

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19:08 <xcamel> re-hi

19:08 <zombie67> pov:

19:12 <PovAddict> yeah, you have a huge negative CPU debt

19:12 <PovAddict> but it might still request GPU work...

19:12 <zombie67> so, this is a problem, right?

19:13 <zombie67> should i tell the alpha list?

19:15 <PovAddict> again, if you had no GPU, this would be simply a case of "debt is negative, so it doesn't fetch any work"

19:15 <PovAddict> a problem that you could easily have with 6.2 or 5.10

19:16 <PovAddict> in this case, CPU debt is negative, so it doesn't fetch any CPU work

19:16 <PovAddict> but it still tries to get GPU work, because it has no way of knowing the project has no GPU apps

19:16 <zombie67> negative numbers mean you NEED work

19:17 <zombie67> no, no, the project HAS a GPU app.

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19:17 <zombie67> but the work released is for ONLY CPUs

19:17 <zombie67> but the BOINC client won't ask for any of the CPU work, even though it needs work from that project

19:17 <PovAddict> negative debt means it won't fetch work, it owes CPU time to other projects

19:17 <zombie67> no, that is backwards

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19:18 <zombie67> negative means it is short work

19:18 <PovAddict> that's how it has always worked since there is a concept of 'debt'

19:18 <zombie67> it changed recently

19:18 <PovAddict> "a project's 'debt' is how much work is owed to it"

19:18 <zombie67> they reversed it

19:19 <PovAddict> they can't reverse it... they did it that way because that's what the word 'debt' means...

19:19 <zombie67> I am telling you, I know this for sure

19:19 <PovAddict> mailing list thread?

19:19 <zombie67> if there is a negative number, then BOINC tries to get work to bring it back to 0

19:20 <PovAddict> GpuWorkFetch documentation says "If there's a CPU shortfall, request work from the project with highest long-term debt (LTD)."

19:20 <PovAddict> "We continue to use the idea of long-term debt (LTD), representing how much work (measured in device instance-seconds) is "owed" to each project P. This increases over time in proportion to P's resource share, and decreases as P uses resources"

19:20 <zombie67> highest in this case now mean biggest negative number

19:20 <PovAddict> [citation needed]

19:21 <zombie67> look at all your projects that cannot get work like LHC, they are ALL negative numbers

19:22 <PovAddict> I have never run a 6.4/6.6 client myself

19:22 <PovAddict> I have latest version of Synecdoche running here

19:23 <zombie67> it changed to negative numbers some place in 6.6.*

19:23 <zombie67> I think

19:25 <PovAddict> show me the mailing list post saying so and I'll believe it

19:25 <zombie67> you think I am making it up?

19:26 <zombie67> the archives are not searchable, are they?

19:27 <PovAddict> only last few days'...

19:27 <PovAddict> do you keep messages on your email account? can your email account search?

19:31 <xcamel> alpha or beta?

19:32 <zombie67> i do not keep the email messages

19:33 <xcamel> messages of 2.26.09

19:33 <xcamel> several of them

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19:39 <zombie67> okay, let me ask it this way then:  If all of my projects have a debt of 0 or some number less than 0, how could it be possible that a negative number means overworked?

19:41 <xcamel> because LTD is really an absolute value, positive or negative, it two sides of the same coin.

19:42 <zombie67> release note for 6.6.11:  - client: if a project is at max backoff for a resource, stop accumulating debt if it's at or around zero.  This prevents other projects from being driven unboundedly negative.

19:43 <zombie67> xcamel, that means that ALL my projects are overworked.  You have to have at least one project to be underworked, for another project to be overworked.

19:43 <zombie67> and over half my projects have been out of work for a long time now.

19:44 <zombie67> aka, underworked

19:46 <PovAddict> zombie67: that release note means: if a project kept getting backed off for CUDA because it has no CUDA app at all, avoid driving other projects' CUDA debts insanely negative

19:48 <zombie67> that was the only thing I could find from ROM with the word negative in it

19:48 <zombie67> so tell me why my underworked projects are VERY negative.

19:49 <zombie67> ALL my projects are negative, including the underworked projects

19:50 <PovAddict> I dunno; in 6.2, it'd be impossible to have all projects negative

19:50 <PovAddict> because the sum is kept at 0

19:51 <zombie67> like I said, something recently changed with the whole work fetch policy

19:51 <zombie67> major change

19:51 <PovAddict> ask your questions in boinc_alpha instead of to me

19:56 <zombie67> asked

20:03 <CoderForLife>,2933,517481,00.html

20:03 <Romulus> <> (at

20:05 <xcamel> get out yer xbox 360

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20:10 <CoderForLife> we have raised legions of highly skill marksmen

20:10 <zombie67> changing machines

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20:16 <CoderForLife> speaking of sharp shooters

20:17 <efc> What cha need shooted?

20:17 <CoderForLife>,2933,517481,00.htm

20:17 <Romulus> <> (at

20:17 <CoderForLife> er .html

20:17 <efc> Its comin right for us! Shoot shoot!

20:19 <efc> 5 Alive but Not For Long

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20:26 <KathrynM> work fetch has been buggered since the 6.4 days

20:26 <zombie67> what does a negative debt number mean to you?

20:27 <CoderForLife> a bailout

20:28 <KathrynM> beats the heck out of me.  I barely understood it in the 5.x days.  I don't have any idea what it means now

20:29 <PovAddict> &quote

20:29 <Romulus> PovAddict: Error: The command "quote" is available in the QuoteGrabs and Stock plugins.  Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "quote".

20:29 <xcamel> positive cash balances...

20:30 <CoderForLife> on the back on inter-generational debt, in case of a bailout

20:38 * CoderForLife wanders away

20:39 <zombie67> RALPH keeps releasing batches of work...and I keep missing them.  Thanks again 6.6.*!!

20:40 <PovAddict> makes me wonder if those issues are worth the ability to run on GPU

20:46 <xcamel> no, they're not - non cuda users have been entirely screwed out of the system

20:47 <PovAddict> and that's why I'm sticking to 6.2

20:47 <PovAddict> I'll leave my GPU doing *graphics* (off-loading the CPU)

20:50 <zombie67> boinc has become a black box.  so much so, the developers no longer understand why it does what it does.

20:51 <PovAddict> &grab zombie67

20:51 <Romulus> PovAddict: The operation succeeded.

20:51 <xcamel> now that is the 'money quote'

20:51 <zombie67> grabbed my what?!

20:51 <PovAddict> lol

20:52 <KathrynM> hey now, this is a kid friendly channel

20:52 <PovAddict> &quotegrabs quote zombie67

20:52 <Romulus> PovAddict: <zombie67> boinc has become a black box.  so much so, the developers no longer understand why it does what it does.

20:52 <PovAddict> &quotegrabs quote KathrynM

20:52 <Romulus> PovAddict: <KathrynM> This week has been a Schrodinger's week.  Long and short all at the same time.

20:56 <zombie67> Ever read Frank Herbert's "Destination: Void"?  The development of BOINC reminds me of that book.

20:57 <xcamel> an oldie but goodie..

20:58 <zombie67> the team knows the end goal, develop AI because their life depends on it, but not sure how to get there.  All pure trial and error.

21:06 <efc> Moo

21:06 <PovAddict> moo

21:09 <zombie67> ooooom

21:09 <zombie67> man, my chakra is all messed up

21:10 <zombie67> oh, sorry, it was only my shoe lace untied

21:31 <zombie67> for WEP, my dual core ATOM (with HT on) is 1.2 times faster than my single core 1.8ghz G5 iMac

21:31 <zombie67> probably uses a LOT less power though

22:03 <PovAddict> more speed, less power... win

22:27 <zombie67> yep

22:28 <zombie67> G5s are THIRSTY processors

22:28 <PovAddict> also, it's possible the app isn't optimized enough for PPC

22:29 <zombie67> YOW!!

22:29 <Romulus> <> (at

22:29 <zombie67> idle: 120w, max: 430w

22:30 <PovAddict> O_O

22:30 <zombie67> I have a non-functioning G5 quad, 2.5ghz

22:31 <zombie67> 140/604w

22:31 <zombie67> least

22:31 <zombie67> and that;s just for the CPU

22:32 *** MacG has quit IRC

22:43 <PovAddict> there's a reason why Apple changed to Intel

22:43 <PovAddict> :)

22:46 *** jasong has joined #boinc

22:47 <zombie67> yep

22:48 <zombie67> and ALL the crying!

22:48 <zombie67> heh

22:48 * PovAddict gets hit by PM spam again

22:53 <zombie67> IRC PM?  or message board PM?

22:54 <PovAddict> message board

22:54 <PovAddict> (not BOINC)

22:54 <zombie67> whew

22:54 <zombie67> I was worried it might be a team mate

22:54 <PovAddict>

22:54 <Romulus> <> (at

22:56 <zombie67> are you BOINCer?

22:56 <PovAddict> yes (see my sig :P)

22:56 <zombie67> ah!

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