IRC logs of #boinc for Friday, 2009-05-29

00:00 <efc> moo cfl

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00:46 <efc> &wx 31088

00:46 <Romulus> efc: Temperature: 74F / 23C | Humidity: 89% | Pressure: 29.84in / 1010hPa (Steady) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: SW | Wind Speed: 7mph / 11km/h ; Tonight - Partly cloudy with a 20 percent chance of showers and thunderstorms. Lows in the upper 60s. Light and variable winds.; Friday - Partly sunny with a 20 percent chance of showers and thunderstorms. Highs in the upper 80s. West winds 10 to (1 more message)

00:48 <efc> &more

00:48 <Romulus> efc: 15 mph.; Friday Night - Partly cloudy. Lows in the lower 60s. Light and variable winds.; Special Weather Statement for Houston County in effect until 1:15 AM EDT on May 29, 2009;

00:49 <efc> i'd say its 100% chance of rain since its raining

01:17 <efc> Mmm i want a chicken biscuit in the morning

01:18 <MTughan> Ah, finally connected to the desktop again... BOINC had frozen again.

01:51 <CoderForLife> moo

01:58 * CoderForLife goes looking for a 2am snack

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02:14 * Xio_NYC mutters something vulgar, obscene, indecent, and profane about his ISP

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02:18 <CoderForLife> well - maybe the Sandman was hungry, and now he's fed

02:18 * CoderForLife wanders off in search of more sleep

02:18 <MTughan> Overrated again?

02:19 <CoderForLife> it's a hit parade

02:19 <CoderForLife> 2-1/2 hours in the bag - in search of more

02:20 <CoderForLife> I'd say "good night", but I don;t know what that means anymore

02:20 * CoderForLife goes to sit in a chair in the bedroom to wait for sleepiness

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02:27 <efc> zz

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04:10 <CoderForLife> blah

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06:29 <hawmps> 'lo

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06:46 <CoderForLife> off to w@#% - at least for awhile

06:57 <hawmps> have phun

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07:37 <Jackygrahamez> I'm back

07:37 <Jackygrahamez> Hi KathrynM are you there?

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07:51 <hawmps> 'lo Jack

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09:09 <yoyo[RKN]> moin

09:17 <Nickuwo> mornin'

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11:05 <CoderForLife> w@#% is phun

11:07 <PovAddict> uh huh

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12:29 <wdsmia> &wx 50319

12:29 <Romulus> wdsmia: Temperature: 72.9F / 22.7C | Humidity: 48% | Pressure: 29.99in / 1015.5hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Scattered Clouds | Wind Direction: NE | Wind Speed: 5.0mph / 8.0km/h ; Rest of Today - Sunny. High in the lower 80s. Northeast wind 5 to 10 mph.; Tonight - Partly cloudy. A 30 percent chance of thunderstorms after midnight. Low in the upper 50s. South wind near 10 mph.; Saturday - Partly (1 more message)

12:29 <wdsmia> &more

12:29 <Romulus> wdsmia: sunny. A 20 percent chance of thunderstorms in the afternoon. High in the lower 80s. East wind near 10 mph shifting to the north in the afternoon.;

12:45 <FreeLarry58> k i guess i can say it now that i've tried gpu - gpu gives too much credit - no wonder there are so many hounds getting insane rac's

12:45 <FreeLarry58> 2 units on new machine (i7) equaled total credit for other 8 projects combined during that time frame

12:46 <FreeLarry58> PovAddict - that error screen pn primegrid screen saver stuck on the vista machine this time it says

12:47 <FreeLarry58> -The aplication has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way.  Please contact the application's support team for more information

12:48 <FreeLarry58> in M$ visual C++ Runtime Library window that is

12:48 <PovAddict> sieve WUs aren't supposed to have a screensaver

12:49 <FreeLarry58> true - i guess prime wanted to add it to them

12:49 <PovAddict> but the screensaver doesn't *support* the sieve app, so it enters the buggy test mode when it notices the WU is not a LLR

12:50 <FreeLarry58> small but - guess that the termination should just be a restart of progress bar instead of termination

12:50 <FreeLarry58> termination would imply wu being uploaded and reported

12:50 <PovAddict> and that's what happens

12:50 <PovAddict> in LLR

12:51 <PovAddict> progress bar reaches 100% when WU reaches 100%

12:51 <PovAddict> in sieve, the screensaver doesn't even know what the WU progress is, or when it finishes

12:51 <FreeLarry58> true - so test mode should just restart

12:51 <FreeLarry58> progress bar that is

12:51 <PovAddict> test mode should never trigger in a user's machine

12:52 <PovAddict> maybe I should have made it so that there is no test mode if not run on my computer: if WU not supported, refuse to start graphics

12:52 <FreeLarry58> only ones i've noticed it on so far is vista machines

12:53 <FreeLarry58> lol - i'm sure someone at prime would have noticed the test mode and try to enable if you did

12:54 <FreeLarry58> it is a nice saver after all

12:54 <PovAddict> doubt it, since I *didn't give them the source code*

12:54 * FreeLarry58 never underestimate the corporate reverse engineering skills

12:55 <FreeLarry58> dcomplier programs still exist

12:57 <FreeLarry58> finaly got the wifes new machine to work with the cable box - ie it can change the channels on the box -- just had to figure out what little part in the box was transmitter and where it had to be plugged into ;)

12:57 * FreeLarry58 no not that dark place

13:09 <FreeLarry58> dang is it that time already - got asked to start early for next 3 days so time sense is off

13:09 <FreeLarry58> &tca

13:09 <Romulus> FreeLarry58: Are you daft?

13:09 <FreeLarry58> wy yes i am Romulus

13:09 <FreeLarry58> &bye

13:09 <Romulus> later ace

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13:59 <yoyo[RKN]> if I change the url of an project I must also create new app versions, right?

13:59 <PovAddict> if you change the URL of a project, all hell breaks loose

13:59 <Nickuwo> haha

14:00 <PovAddict> step 1 in changing a project URL: pick a GOOD new URL, so that you'll never have to change it again

14:01 <yoyo[RKN]> ok .. done

14:01 <yoyo[RKN]> there were no wus running

14:02 <PovAddict> two projects in the same subdomain are a problem: if they get too much load and you have to move them to separate physical servers, one of the projects' URLs will have to change (unless you have a server-side proxy or something like that)

14:02 <PovAddict> an organization name in the project URL is sometimes a problem: it has happened that a project moved from one university to another and they had to change URL

14:02 <PovAddict> that said and done:

14:03 <PovAddict> step 2: stop the project. if the project was ever public, post news to make users detach and attach to new URL

14:03 <yoyo[RKN]> wasn't public

14:04 <PovAddict> replace URL everywhere in config.xml

14:04 <yoyo[RKN]> done

14:04 <PovAddict> replace URL in html/user/schedulers.txt

14:04 <yoyo[RKN]> done

14:05 <PovAddict> if you have project-wide files, like logos for the simple GUI, replace download URLs in project_files.xml

14:05 <yoyo[RKN]> I didn't made such files until the url is not fixed

14:06 <PovAddict> delete everything inside html/cache (but not the cache folder itself)

14:07 <PovAddict> rm -rf html/cache/*

14:07 <yoyo[RKN]> done

14:08 <PovAddict> create new application versions, or update the app_version table to have the new URLs

14:08 <PovAddict> UPDATE app_version SET xml_doc = REPLACE(xml_doc, "", "");

14:09 <PovAddict> do you have any WUs in progress or waiting to be sent?

14:10 <yoyo[RKN]> no

14:10 <PovAddict> do you have forums?

14:10 <yoyo[RKN]> no

14:10 <PovAddict> then that should be it

14:11 <yoyo[RKN]> ok, I was aware of everything but not the html/cache/* stuff

14:12 <PovAddict> it would simply mean broken links on the website (links taking to the old URL) for an hour or two on cached pages

14:35 <hawmps>

14:35 <Romulus> <> (at

14:35 <hawmps> geezer tech

14:35 <hawmps> 1964 Livermore Data Systems Model A Acoustic Coupler Modem

14:36 <PovAddict> link doesn't work for me

14:36 <PovAddict> does

14:36 <Romulus> <> (at

15:24 <jasong> Isn't Miley Cyrus underage?

15:24 <jasong> Because AOL IM is advertising bikini pics of her

15:24 <PovAddict> she is

15:25 <PovAddict> go to any social networking site and you'll see lots of underage girls posting +

15:25 <PovAddict> I hate the location of 'enter' key

15:25 <Nickuwo> that's a travesty. Whats the url again?

15:25 <jasong> So AOL is encouraging inappropiate thinking, I guess

15:25 <PovAddict> go to any social networking site and you'll see lots of underage girls posting *their own* pictures in bikini

15:25 <jasong> Yeah, but this is a billion dollar company

15:25 <PovAddict> same here, it was her who posted it

15:26 <PovAddict> then someone else (not her nor AOL) put an ad on AOL about it, I guess

15:26 <jasong> hmmmm, I guess that's possible

15:27 * PovAddict smacks his computer

15:27 <PovAddict> noisy fan somewhere there

15:28 <PovAddict> seems to be psu

15:33 <Jackygrahamez> &wx 20011

15:33 <Romulus> Jackygrahamez: Temperature: 75.2F / 24.0C | Humidity: 71% | Pressure: 29.67in / 1004.6hPa (Steady) | Conditions: Mostly Cloudy | Wind Direction: NNW | Wind Speed: 6.0mph / 9.7km/h ; This Afternoon - Showers and thunderstorms likely. Some thunderstorms may be severe with damaging winds and heavy rainfall. Highs in the mid 80s. Northwest winds 10 to 15 mph. Chance of rain 70 percent.; Tonight - (2 more messages)

15:33 <Jackygrahamez> &more

15:33 <Romulus> Jackygrahamez: Mostly cloudy with showers and thunderstorms likely in the evening...then mostly clear after midnight. Some thunderstorms may be severe with heavy rainfall. Lows in the upper 50s. Northwest winds 10 to 15 mph. Chance of rain 60 percent.; Saturday - Mostly sunny. Highs in the upper 70s. Northwest winds 5 to 10 mph.; Severe Thunderstorm Watch for District of Columbia County in effect (1 more message)

15:33 <Jackygrahamez> &more

15:33 <Romulus> Jackygrahamez: until 8:00 PM EDT on May 29, 2009; Flash Flood Watch for District of Columbia County in effect until 8:00 PM EDT on May 29, 2009;

15:36 <Jackygrahamez> I'll see if I get IRC working on my new system tonight

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16:04 <PovAddict> plink, especially if you own a BOINC project

16:04 <PovAddict> spammer

16:06 <CoderForLife> plinked - thanks

16:07 <PovAddict> trying to make BOINC accounts named "Telemarketers cell phones"

16:07 * CoderForLife looks over at his ringing cell phone

16:08 <CoderForLife> good old "Unknown caller" again

16:12 <Tank_Master> I get "restricted" from time to time

16:12 <Tank_Master> never answer those

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16:48 <yoyo[RKN]> &wx sxf

16:48 <Romulus> yoyo[RKN]: Temperature: 54°F / 12°C | Humidity: 77% | Pressure: 30.39in / 1029hPa | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: North | Wind Speed: 12mph / 18km/h | Updated: 10:20 PM CEST; Chance of Rain. High:60 F.; Chance of Rain. Low:50 F.; Thunderstorm. High:68 F.; Thunderstorm. Low:53 F.; Chance of a Thunderstorm. High:68 F.; Chance of a Thunderstorm. Low:50 F.;

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18:18 <Ageless93> Nick, he's just whining, cos he can't do anything else. I'm ignoring his emails and post for the next week or so. ;)

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18:23 <PovAddict> meh

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18:54 <Rookie_69> Hmm... I was just on Facebook and saw pictures on my nephew's wedding. I didn't even know he was seeing someone. I really should keep in closer touch with my family.

18:54 <xcamel> 'lo Glenn

18:55 <Rookie_69> Hi, Jay.

18:58 <xcamel> how's life on the big island?

18:59 <Rookie_69> This won't be an island again until the sea rises a few metres or we get a really big storm...

18:59 <Rookie_69> Chilly and wet otherwise.

19:00 <xcamel> low tides..

19:02 <Rookie_69> A 10 or 12 km sea level canal would have made it an island again, but they tried a marine railway instead and failed.

19:06 <xcamel> forgot about that..

19:06 <xcamel> bbl

19:06 <Rookie_69> K.

19:07 <Rookie_69> Oh... apparently, it was 17 miles.

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19:24 <Rookie_69> If you watched Theodore Tugboat on PBS, I live near the Big Harbour though...

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20:23 <Tank_Master> Fedora 11 due for release next Tuesday

20:23 <Tank_Master>

20:23 <Romulus> <> (at

20:27 <PovAddict> I found another fatal credit flaw

20:27 <PovAddict> now that we have GPUs

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20:32 <Tank_Master> <- I want a few of those

20:32 <Romulus> <> (at

20:40 <Tank_Master> PovAddict - what did you find?

20:43 <PovAddict> suppose a project gives a fixed 13.333 credits per WU

20:44 <Tank_Master> ok...

20:44 <PovAddict> (number may seem strange, but I initially started with '10', and the number evolved from there :P)

20:44 <Tank_Master> lol

20:44 <PovAddict> task takes four hours on my CPU

20:44 <PovAddict> let's assume single-core for simplicity

20:44 <PovAddict> how many credits per day will I get?

20:45 <PovAddict> at 4 hours per WU, I do six tasks a day

20:45 <PovAddict> 13.333 x 6 = 80

20:45 <PovAddict> 80 credits per day

20:45 <PovAddict> now, the project manages to optimize the application enough to make it take three hours

20:46 <PovAddict> so I do 8 tasks per day now

20:46 <Tank_Master> right

20:47 <PovAddict> so to keep their credits/day matching other projects, they'd have to lower credits per task

20:47 <PovAddict> down to 10

20:47 <Tank_Master> true

20:47 <PovAddict> 10 credits per task, 8 tasks per day, 80 credits per day

20:47 <PovAddict> and everything works fine

20:47 <PovAddict> now here's the problem

20:47 <PovAddict> project makes a GPU app

20:48 <PovAddict> suppose it takes 1 hour (!) on my GPU

20:48 <umccullough> and your GPU cries

20:48 <PovAddict> so my CPU makes 80 cr/day and my GPU makes 240 cr/day

20:49 <PovAddict> now, the project optimizes the CPU app further, it takes 2 hours; GPU app unchanged

20:49 <PovAddict> what should the project do with credits?

20:49 <PovAddict> if they, again, lower credits per task (down to 6.66667) so that the CPU keeps getting 80 credits/day

20:50 <PovAddict> the GPU will go down from 240cr/day to 160cr/day

20:50 <PovAddict> why should GPU users be "penalized"?

20:50 <Tank_Master> probably why some projects deside to split the gpu and cpu apps into different projects

20:50 <PovAddict> if they leave credits at 10cr/WU, GPU still gets 240cr/day

20:50 <PovAddict> but CPU gets 120cr/day now

20:51 <PovAddict> and the project is now overgranting, because my CPU gets close to 80cr/day on every project except this one where it gets more

20:51 <PovAddict> once again, there is no good answer

20:52 <PovAddict> at least not while keeping the current credit concept

20:52 <PovAddict> once again, a solution would be to make project credits totally independent, and forbid adding credits from different projects

20:52 <Tank_Master> anywho, ill bbl, dinner

20:52 <PovAddict> the project can easily give 10cr/WU (or 100) and stop worrying about the problem

20:53 <PovAddict> it won't matter if this project gives 2000cr/day and that other gives 80cr/day

20:53 <PovAddict> because it's not like the first project will affect your total more: there will be no total

20:54 <PovAddict> incompatible non-comparable units

20:54 <PovAddict> or, you could compare them, assigning a weight yourself, depending on how much you value the work of each project

20:55 <PovAddict> "should an hour of prime searching pay the same as an hour of protein folding? which is more valuable?" that's personal opinion

21:02 <jasong> anybody here, I need a quick favor and the fact that you're in this channel means you have the skills to help me

21:02 <jasong> It's really easy, but I don't want to blurt it out and get spammed

21:11 * umccullough spams jasong

21:12 <jasong> lol, thanks, that helped actually

21:12 <jasong> I was trying to figure out whether I'd see messages while my firefox browser was in full-screen mode

21:12 <umccullough> lol

21:13 <umccullough> tricking us into helping you ;)

21:13 <jasong> anybody here own a Kindle?

21:15 * Tank_Master burns jasong's house down

21:20 <Tank_Master> (CPU1) Intel Atom CPU 330 @ 1.60GHz @ 1896MHz ( LakePort mainboard) (RAM) 4GB, 1.43GB free (HDDs) 2.52TB, 836GB free

21:20 <Tank_Master> (VGA1) Intel(R) 82945G Express Chipset Family (Microsoft Corporation - Prerelease WDDM 1.0) (256MB), 2048x1536x32, 74Hz (OS) Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit, 1h 59m 26s uptime, 1w 9h 20m 24s uptime record

21:24 <jasong> Oh, for anyone who's watched the first episode of the show Mental, the vision portions are spot on.  Although, I've never met anyone lucky enough to have sexual visions.  Mostly, it's body parts, dead people, sticks coming out of people's heads, that sort of thing

21:25 <jasong> I had visions of hitting people.  Never actually hit anyone, but I wouldn't realize it hadn't actually happened until a few seconds after the vision, since no one got mad at me afterwards

21:57 <jasong> Any Ubuntu users here?

21:57 <jasong> I'm confused about something.

21:58 <jasong> There's an install iso called AMD64 which, if I remember correctly, is also what's supposed to be installed on Intel.  It's basically 64-bit Ubuntu unless I badly misunderstood something.  Is this correct?

21:59 <PovAddict> yep

21:59 <PovAddict> AMD64 is the architecture name

21:59 <PovAddict> just like IA32 is the official architecture name for 32-bit x86

21:59 <PovAddict> (stands for Intel Architecture 32)

21:59 <jasong> Why the hell don't they call it 64-bit, or something random, rather than confusing the hell out of people like me?

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21:59 <jasong> sorry, not mad at you

21:59 <PovAddict> (and IA64 has nothing to do with the common 64-bit architecture)

22:00 <jasong> brb, drink

22:00 <PovAddict> IA64 is Itanium

22:00 <jasong> oops, it's full, I must be losing time again

22:00 <PovAddict> AMD64 is the 64-bit extensions to the x86 architecture, invented by AMD and then adopted by Intel

22:01 <jasong> What's IA64, then?

22:01 <PovAddict> AMD64 is the first time AMD invents a significant modification to x86... usually it's Intel extending it and AMD having to catch up (which involves buying a license from Intel to be allowed to do it)

22:02 <PovAddict> IA64 is quite a different architecture... didn't have too much market acceptance really

22:02 <PovAddict> look at their sales forecasts vs actual sales:

22:02 <Romulus> <> (at

22:02 <PovAddict> they kept losing optimism, and reality still is below their expectatinos

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22:43 <infinisoft> The new IA64 uarch is experiencing numerous delays

22:43 <MTughan> Is IA64 still being developed? I think x86_64 could easily displace it.

22:44 <PovAddict> MTughan: did you read details about it?

22:44 <MTughan> No, I didn't.

22:44 <MTughan> I know some about it though.

22:44 <infinisoft> Only just now is x86 servers receiving the needed RAS features that IA64 had for a long time

22:44 <infinisoft> Which is called Nehalem EX.

22:45 <infinisoft> Which works glueless for up to 8 way -- another thing usually kept for ia64

22:47 <infinisoft> Anyway, IA64 is still alive and the next chip is codenamed "tukwila" but it has been long overdue.

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23:14 <KathrynM> crud, had to restart X

23:17 <PovAddict> no fun

23:25 <CoderForLife> crud = create, read, update, delete

23:26 <CoderForLife> &wx 45140

23:26 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Temperature: 66.5F / 19.2C | Humidity: 68% | Pressure: 29.59in / 1001.9hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: SSW | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Overnight - Partly cloudy. Lows in the mid 50s. Northwest winds around 5 mph.; Saturday - Partly sunny. A slight chance of showers and thunderstorms in the afternoon. Highs in the upper 70s. Northeast winds around 5 (1 more message)

23:26 <CoderForLife> &more

23:26 <Romulus> CoderForLife: mph...becoming south with gusts up to 20 mph in the afternoon. Chance of rain 20 percent.; Saturday Night - Partly cloudy. A chance of showers and thunderstorms...mainly in the evening. Lows in the lower 50s. West winds 5 to 10 mph. Chance of rain 30 percent.;

23:26 <CoderForLife> back to sleepyville

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23:49 <efc> moo

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