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00:06 <CoderForLife> &wx 45140
00:06 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Temperature: 68.7°F / 20.4°C | Humidity: 82% | Pressure: 29.69in / 1005.3hPa (Steady) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: West | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Overnight - Partly cloudy. A chance of showers. Lows in the mid 60s. South winds around 5 mph. Chance of rain 30 percent.; Tuesday - Mostly cloudy with a chance of showers and thunderstorms. Highs in the mid 80s. Southwest (1 more message)
00:06 <CoderForLife> &more
00:06 <Romulus> CoderForLife: winds 5 to 10 mph. Chance of rain 50 percent.; Tuesday Night - Mostly cloudy in the evening...then becoming partly cloudy. A chance of showers and thunderstorms. Lows in the upper 60s. West winds around 5 mph. Chance of rain 50 percent.;
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00:22 <CoderForLife> b2b
00:22 <PovAddict> back to... business?
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02:15 <efc> &wx 31088
02:15 <Romulus> efc: Temperature: 73°F / 23°C | Humidity: 100% | Pressure: 30.04in / 1017hPa (Steady) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: North | Wind Speed: 0mph / 0km/h ; Rest of Tonight - Partly cloudy. Lows around 70. Light and variable winds.; Tuesday - Mostly sunny with a 20 percent chance of showers and thunderstorms in the afternoon. Highs in the mid 90s. Southwest winds 5 to 10 mph.; Tuesday Night - (1 more message)
02:15 <efc> &more
02:15 <Romulus> efc: Partly cloudy. Lows in the lower 70s. Light and variable winds.;
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04:58 <CoderForLife> yes PovAddict
04:58 <CoderForLife> back to the business of being in bed
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06:33 <wdsmia> &wx 50319
06:33 <Romulus> wdsmia: Temperature: 68.5°F / 20.3°C | Humidity: 96% | Pressure: 29.78in / 1008.4hPa (Falling) | Conditions: Overcast | Wind Direction: WNW | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Today - Partly sunny. High in the upper 80s. Northeast wind 5 to 10 mph.; Tonight - Partly cloudy. Low in the upper 50s. Northeast wind 5 to 10 mph.; Wednesday - Partly sunny. A 20 percent chance of thunderstorms in the (1 more message)
06:33 <wdsmia> &more
06:33 <Romulus> wdsmia: afternoon. High in the lower 80s. East wind 5 to 10 mph.;
06:43 <hawmps> 'lo
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08:12 <hawmps> spork >> 184.108.40.206
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09:21 <hawmps> hmmm..
09:22 <hawmps> tough splits..
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10:32 <Tank_Master> &wx 97123
10:32 <Tank_Master> &more
10:32 <Romulus> Tank_Master: Temperature: 57.7°F / 14.3°C | Humidity: 82% | Pressure: 30.02in / 1016.5hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Partly Cloudy | Wind Direction: ESE | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Today - Partly sunny. Highs around 85. Light wind becoming west 5 to 10 mph by the afternoon.; Tonight - Partly cloudy. Lows 55 to 60. Southwest wind 10 to 15 mph...becoming light wind after midnight.; Wednesday - Partly (1 more message)
10:32 <Romulus> Tank_Master: sunny. Highs around 80. Light wind becoming west 10 to 15 mph in the afternoon.;
10:41 <hawmps> nice day?
10:41 <hawmps> 3rd spork >> 220.127.116.11
10:42 <hawmps> and 18.104.22.168
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13:42 <yoyo[RKN]> &wx txl
13:42 <Romulus> yoyo[RKN]: Temperature: 75Â°F / 24Â°C | Humidity: 38% | Pressure: 30.09in / 1019hPa | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: North | Wind Speed: 7mph / 11km/h | Updated: 7:20 PM CEST; Chance of Rain. High:73 ° F.; Chance of Rain. Low:57 ° F.; Clear. High:77 ° F.; Clear. Low:57 ° F.; Clear. High:78 ° F.; Clear. Low:60 ° F.;
13:43 <Tank_Master> man, BOIN sure dose not know how to listen to the resource share
13:44 <Tank_Master> I have pg at 1 and collatz at 100, so what does BOIN do? it d/ls 205 PG WUs and goes into high priority mode and yet only d/ls 8 collatz WUs...
13:44 <FreeLarry58> should have reset both projects first Tank_Master
13:45 <Tank_Master> y?
13:45 <FreeLarry58> or so i have discovered with gpu project - resets the amount of work reqested it seems
13:45 <PovAddict> Tank_Master: but PG tasks are much shorter, aren't they?
13:46 <Tank_Master> no
13:46 <PovAddict> what matters is the hours of work, not the number of tasks
13:46 <Tank_Master> col WUs only take about 45 min
13:46 <Tank_Master> whereas PG takes about 8h
13:46 <PovAddict> debts
13:46 <Tank_Master> so it d/l 205 8h WUs
13:46 <FreeLarry58> yeah i know
13:47 <FreeLarry58> large debt for pg them
13:47 <Tank_Master> on a 8 CPU comp
13:47 <Tank_Master> that would still take more than the .5 day cache I have...
13:47 <FreeLarry58> true
13:48 <FreeLarry58> i have .25 day ache st but it regularly ignored
13:48 * FreeLarry58 cusses at fingers that not striking kb hard enought
13:48 * FreeLarry58 or too much
13:48 <Tank_Master> updating now to 6.6.38
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14:33 <PovAddict> PTP facebook app says "This name contains special characters that are not allowed."
14:33 <PovAddict> I don't even know what name it's talking about
14:34 <PovAddict> so I can't register
14:34 <PovAddict> the "feedback" and "contact" links take me back to the registration page, brilliant...
14:35 <PovAddict> I can't register and I can't contact them without registering so I can't tell them that registration is broken
14:36 <Tank_Master> lol
14:36 <Tank_Master> go figure
14:37 <Tank_Master> that ptp app wants me to install the gridrepublic app to work
14:38 <PovAddict> from what I see on the wall and the forum, most people who tried it were boinc users already
14:38 <PovAddict> I guess it hasn't been widely announced to the public yet
14:38 <Tank_Master> plus it allows you to select project that dont exist anymore, like tsp, rs, depspid, then complains when it cant connect to them...
14:39 <Tank_Master> and you have to deselect them
14:39 <PovAddict> I thought it only let you attach to WCG and Rosetta and... one other
14:39 <PovAddict> CPDN
14:39 <Tank_Master> no, theres about 30
14:39 <PovAddict> ah that's GR
14:39 <PovAddict> I'm talking about PTP only
14:39 <Tank_Master> progress through processors, right?
14:39 <PovAddict> yes
14:40 <Tank_Master> iots set up by the GR people
14:40 <Tank_Master> and WCG
14:40 <PovAddict> I know
14:40 <PovAddict> but
14:40 <PovAddict> only three projects there
14:41 <Tank_Master> I clicked no to 1
14:42 <PovAddict> I did too, and it doesn't work
14:42 <Tank_Master> man that ptp site is slow...
14:42 <PovAddict> (I used my real email address of course)
14:42 <Tank_Master> that worked for me
14:43 <Tank_Master> perhaps gmail is to special for it? :P
14:43 <Tank_Master> I have an _ in my e-mail to, and it took it
14:45 <Tank_Master> have you gotten any help at aqua with your low number of work sent to you?
14:45 <PovAddict> not any from admins
14:45 <Tank_Master> bummer
14:45 <PovAddict> just users telling me how I could work around it for testing
14:46 <Tank_Master> lol
14:46 <hawmps> spork day >> 22.214.171.124 ssh hacks
14:46 <PovAddict> like getting one WU, suspending project so it doesn't contact the server
14:46 <Tank_Master> yeah, most were of no help
14:46 <PovAddict> then backing up my folder
14:46 <PovAddict> when I crash the task, I restore the backup and can test again
14:48 <hawmps> pov -- any progress on fixing the nvidia driver cuda issue yet?
14:49 <PovAddict> I don't do cuda
14:49 <PovAddict> and I haven't seen anything related to it in the lists recently
14:49 <hawmps> figures
14:50 <PovAddict> heh
14:51 <PovAddict> TheGasGiant asks on aqua forums why Synecdoche doesn't support CUDA
14:51 <PovAddict> "I would have thought you'd be releasing a client that utilises the latest BOINC release (or at least 6.6.x atm) and 'fix' [...] the fubar scheduler"
14:51 <Tank_Master> lol
14:51 <Tank_Master> just read that to
14:52 <PovAddict> in 6.3, BOINC added GPU support, and the scheduler hasn't worked well ever since
14:52 <PovAddict> but it's debatable whether it worked well before that anyway
14:54 <PovAddict> by the time we bother with GPUs, maybe CUDA is obsolete already
14:54 <PovAddict> oh nice, another spam stream in the wiki -.-
14:55 <Tank_Master> never ends
14:55 * PovAddict starts spam-deleting script
14:57 <hawmps> like the reply to my comment on alpha...
14:58 <hawmps> bm requests gpu work when there is no gpu app.
15:00 <Tank_Master> yeah
15:04 <Tank_Master> that ptp app page wont even load for me now
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15:17 <Tank_Master> huh
15:18 <Tank_Master> when I syspended collatz, the WUs in progress didnt stop
15:18 <Tank_Master> BOINC even still shows them running
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15:29 <Tank_Master> wtf
15:29 <Tank_Master> message from server: Need version 6.45 or higherof the BOINC client, you have 6.6
15:32 <Tank_Master> heh
15:32 <Tank_Master> now its 6.60 or higher...
15:32 <Tank_Master> 08/04/09 12:23:12AQUA@homeMessage from server: Need version 6.60 or higher of the BOINC core client. You have 6.6.
15:37 <Tank_Master> LOL
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16:28 <zombie67> TM! You're back!
16:29 <Tank_Master> duh
16:29 <Tank_Master> been back for a while
16:31 <zombie67> you've been hiding!
16:32 <zombie67> brb
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17:05 <xcamel> 'lo
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18:19 <xcamel> &wx 12074
18:19 <Romulus> xcamel: Temperature: 83.2°F / 28.4°C | Humidity: 64% | Pressure: 29.80in / 1009.0hPa (Falling) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: SE | Wind Speed: 4.0mph / 6.4km/h ; Tonight - Partly cloudy with a slight chance of showers and thunderstorms. Lows in the mid 60s. South winds 5 to 10 mph. Chance of rain 20 percent.; Wednesday - Partly sunny. Highs in the lower 80s. West winds 5 to 10 mph.; Wednesday (1 more message)
18:19 <xcamel> &more
18:19 <Romulus> xcamel: Night - Mostly clear. Lows in the mid 50s. Northwest winds 5 to 10 mph.;
18:21 <wdsmia> &wx 50319
18:21 <Romulus> wdsmia: Temperature: 81.5°F / 27.5°C | Humidity: 64% | Pressure: 29.93in / 1013.4hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Mostly Cloudy | Wind Direction: NE | Wind Speed: 2.0mph / 3.2km/h ; Tonight - Partly cloudy. Cooler. Low in the upper 50s. Northeast wind 5 to 10 mph.; Wednesday - Partly sunny. High in the lower 80s. Southeast wind 5 to 10 mph.; Wednesday Night - Partly cloudy. Low in the lower 60s. Southeast (1 more message)
18:21 <wdsmia> &more
18:21 <Romulus> wdsmia: wind 5 to 10 mph.;
19:06 <CoderForLife> rain, rain, go away
19:07 *** ChanServ sets mode: -o CoderForLife
19:08 <xcamel> that too..
19:10 <Tank_Master> my lawn is so brown this year, it aint funny
19:10 <Tank_Master> we need the rain
19:10 <xcamel> take some of ours..
19:10 <CoderForLife> quite the converse here
19:10 <xcamel> 22.32" this year
19:10 <Tank_Master> ship it to me
19:10 <PovAddict> how nice of you
19:10 <PovAddict> sharing :)
19:10 <Tank_Master> that all?
19:10 <CoderForLife> flood warnings today
19:11 <CoderForLife> one area near here got 6-1/2 inches in a hour
19:11 <Tank_Master> we typically get 36" a year, rain year here startes oct 1st
19:12 <xcamel> july beat all records.. btw.. we're only half way through our rain season.
19:12 * CoderForLife lets the massage cushion to it's thing to his mid-back
19:12 <CoderForLife> to=do
19:16 <zombie67> WTF is africa@home?
19:17 <Tank_Master> a project
19:17 <zombie67> no it's not
19:17 <Romulus> Title: Africa@home (at africa-at-home.web.cern.ch)
19:18 <PovAddict> then it's malaria?
19:18 <Tank_Master> yep
19:18 <zombie67> it's like WCG
19:18 <zombie67> there is no "wcg" project
19:18 <zombie67> except worse
19:19 <zombie67> it appears that there will eventually be multiple projects under the A@H banner, but all different URLs
19:19 <zombie67> so then, how does one attach to A@H?
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19:20 <zombie67> and FYI, that site is at LEAST a couple years old. No updates since then.
19:20 <PovAddict> "outdated" is the norm in this world
19:20 <PovAddict> KDE 4.2 in Debian testing comes with a "Welcome to KDE" document from January 2002
19:21 <zombie67> the last press release is from april 2006
19:21 <PovAddict> telling you about all the shiny new features 3.5 has
19:21 <zombie67> and mlariacontrol is frequently out of work, AND is not open to new users!!
19:22 <zombie67> and THIS is the project they are using to roll out facebook computing?
19:22 <zombie67> epic fail
19:23 <PovAddict> do you know of any good web IRC that works with freenode?
19:23 <PovAddict> (Mibbit doesn't)
19:25 <zombie67> no idea
19:25 <MTughan> PovAddict: See ##konfabulator
19:26 <Tank_Master> what happened to mibbit anyway?
19:26 <MTughan> Was blocked for abuse.
19:27 <Tank_Master> ahh
19:27 <Romulus> Title: staffblog » Blog Archive » New freenode webchat (and why to use it) (at blog.freenode.net)
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19:45 <MTughan> Hmm... MW down.
19:46 <Tank_Master> bummer
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20:15 <Tank_Master> so much for "brb" zombie67
20:16 <Tank_Master> :)
20:17 <zombie67> that wasn't fast enough?
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20:19 <Tank_Master> wasnt "right back"
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20:58 <Tank_Master> wtf does that mean?
20:58 <Tank_Master> im on facebook with IE8...
20:59 <Tank_Master> and it gave me an error "out of memory at line: 90"
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22:07 <PovAddict> looking through PTP help carefully...
22:08 <PovAddict> I wonder if they consider young teens and/or non-native speakers part of their target population
22:09 <PovAddict> because it looks more like they were trying to keep a high average of syllabes-per-word
22:19 <PovAddict> "Participation in the program isn't contingent upon using the screen saver"
22:20 <MTughan> In other words, you can still run it without using the screen saver.
22:20 <PovAddict> what's wrong with "you don't need to run the screen saver to participate in the program"?
22:22 <PovAddict> if the original sentence doesn't seem that bad, think of the average facebook user (or the stereotype of them) and read again
22:27 <PovAddict> I found 255 words worth of problems with PTP and I didn't even register yet
22:27 <zombie67> what is PTP?
22:27 <PovAddict> (that's how many words I took to list them in a mail to Matt Blumberg)
22:28 <PovAddict> &learn PTP as Progress Thru Processors; Facebook app to get people into BOINC, partnership between Intel and GridRepublic
22:28 <Romulus> PovAddict: The operation succeeded.
22:28 <Romulus> PovAddict: The operation succeeded.
22:29 <zombie67> oh, that facebook crap
22:29 <PovAddict> &grab zombie67
22:29 <Romulus> PovAddict: The operation succeeded.
22:29 <zombie67> this is going to seriously turn off people from DC
22:29 <PovAddict> 30 seconds ago, post on PTP wall:
22:29 <PovAddict> Jason Warren> whatever happened to finding aliens with SETI@home ?
22:29 <zombie67> first impression is everything, and this will kill it
22:31 <zombie67> can I join the fb app without running it?
22:32 <PovAddict> well, I "added it to my profile" so I could see what it was about
22:32 <PovAddict> "allowed it" even
22:32 <PovAddict> but I still didn't "register"
22:32 <PovAddict> the option to use my existing WCG account doesn't work
22:32 <PovAddict> doesn't like the Ã¡ in my FB name
22:33 <zombie67> awe crap, now it redirected me to GR
22:33 <zombie67> damnit!
22:33 <PovAddict> redirected you?
22:33 <PovAddict> please take frequent screenshots of what you do/get and post them somewhere...
22:34 <zombie67> sorry
22:34 <PovAddict> I have a feeling that the site is confusing (but I don't know yet because I can't get in)
22:34 <PovAddict> example -> the ars technica review made me think the reviewer got lost in the PTP/GR maze and ended up getting GR client instead of the PTP-branded one!
22:34 <zombie67> it ic creating an account with GR, and now wants me to dl and install something
22:35 <Tank_Master> I thought that GR was ptp
22:35 <zombie67> right, I selected No
22:35 <zombie67> and now I am in GR
22:35 <zombie67> frackers
22:35 <MTughan> No, GR is an earlier initiative more similar to BAM and BOINC combined.
22:35 <PovAddict> Tank_Master: GR has existed for a few years; PTP is a new Intel+GR campaign
22:36 <zombie67> I just want to see the FB messages!
22:36 <zombie67> GR is nonsense
22:36 <PovAddict> zombie67: then don't go to the app, go to their "page"
22:36 <zombie67> how??
22:36 <Romulus> Somebody said how is breakfast, zombie67
22:36 <PovAddict> confusingly, they have both a facebook "page", and a wall in the app info itself
22:36 <PovAddict> yes that's the app
22:37 <zombie67> facebook is the most confusing web site ever
22:37 <zombie67> I can never get back to a place I have been before
22:37 <Tank_Master> yeah, back button doenst work well
22:37 <Tank_Master> dunno y
22:38 <zombie67> not just the "back" button
22:38 <PovAddict> well but most of its users are fools
22:38 <zombie67> someone invites me to do something, and I hit an add button, instead of a continue button (amazingly hard to differentiate) and then I have to start the whole damn process over
22:39 <PovAddict> and they have a certain "lock-in"
22:39 <PovAddict> so people hate it but use it anyway
22:41 <zombie67> everyone is saying "brilliant idea" as if it is something newq
22:41 <MTughan> I really don't understand some other stuff about Facebook either... Why does every FB application need access to my data?
22:41 <zombie67> +1
22:41 <PovAddict> MTughan: you can't write a FB app that doesn't show the "grant this app access to your data" thing
22:41 <MTughan> PTP for instance, doesn't. Neither does that crossword game which I signed up for, or some quizzes.
22:41 <MTughan> PovAddict: Yep, and that's a weakness in the FB API.
22:41 <PovAddict> what I hate the most about apps...
22:41 <Tank_Master> its a generic message
22:42 <PovAddict> ...is the idiot who made a cookie cutter called "quiz maker" or something
22:42 <PovAddict> it's not an app with quizzes
22:42 <PovAddict> it's a website that lets people create an app with a single quiz
22:42 <PovAddict> so bored fools start doing the quizzes and tests and *each is a different app*
22:43 <PovAddict> so I can't get them permanently out of my facebook wall
22:43 <zombie67> the info "tab" is over a page long. The last bit is "Each project is independently managed." That should be FIRST!!
22:43 <PovAddict> I have to block each test individually
22:44 <zombie67> damnit! They are hurting DC like this!
22:44 <PovAddict> well I emailed Matt (GR owner) a link to this channel
22:45 <PovAddict> if we're lucky he may join and watch us whine :)
22:45 <PovAddict> not sure what his timezone is though
22:47 <zombie67> meh
22:47 *** FBUser has joined #boinc
22:50 <PovAddict> I thought about replacing the 'Ã¡' in my FB name with 'a' so I could test the app
22:50 <PovAddict> turns out name changes may take 24 hours
22:50 <zombie67> fb?
22:50 <Romulus> I guess fb is more expensive and harder to come by, from what I've found, zombie67
22:50 <zombie67> oh
22:50 <zombie67> hah!
22:51 <MTughan> fb is Facebook
22:51 <zombie67> I assumed formulaboinc!
22:51 <MTughan> See if Rommie picks that up...
22:51 <MTughan> fb?
22:51 <Romulus> I guess fb is more expensive and harder to come by, from what I've found, MTughan
22:51 <MTughan> Stupid bot.
22:51 <PovAddict> and seems to be manually reviewed by facebook admins, which makes me think 24 hours is underestimated :)
22:53 *** fbuser_ has joined #boinc
22:53 *** FBUser has quit IRC
23:00 <PovAddict> heh, from another channel:
23:00 <PovAddict> [23:59] <MFen> seriously though, the people who designed d&d were crack-addicted lemurs
23:00 <PovAddict> [23:59] <MFen> and the people who wrote the monster manuals killed the lemurs, rolled them up and smoked them
23:02 *** wolf_pup-away has joined #boinc
23:10 <MTughan> Whee... I'm in the top 99.9% of users in total credit.
23:12 <zombie67> there is a d&d channel/
23:12 <zombie67> Accumulated more credit than % of all BOINC users99.995%
23:13 <wdsmia> 99.996% :P
23:13 <zombie67> look at that! When did I break the top 100?
23:14 <zombie67> impressive RAC wdsmia
23:14 <wdsmia> working on it
23:14 <zombie67> unfortunately, I can't put full CPU resources on AQUA
23:14 <wdsmia> congrats on top 100
23:15 <zombie67> I am working on megamilestones
23:16 <MTughan> Yeah, but you guys have been crunching longer than I have too.
23:16 <zombie67> crap!
23:16 <Tank_Master> ?
23:16 <zombie67> 90% of my credits are in the last year
23:17 <zombie67> so "crunching time" is nonsense
23:17 <zombie67> the curve has gone straight up
23:20 <zombie67> yours is even more vertical
23:20 <wdsmia> amazing what a few GPU's will do
23:20 <Tank_Master> http://boincstats.com/charts/chart_uk_bo_object_month_users_29090.gif mine, not so much
23:21 <zombie67> your curve was based on CPUs. Very steep for that!
23:22 <Tank_Master> I got a 8800 and a 250 as well
23:22 <zombie67> kevint says a 250 is a rebadged 9800
23:22 <Tank_Master> though you can tell when I quit work :P
23:22 <zombie67> yeah
23:22 <Tank_Master> it is, for the most part
23:22 <zombie67> CPU mag has a comparison for the 4790.
23:22 <zombie67> impressive
23:22 <Tank_Master> lower power consumption, shorter board, more ram, larger fram buffer, but same speed
23:23 <zombie67> tm: but you recovered your curve VERY quickly
23:23 <zombie67> GPU I assume
23:24 <Tank_Master> and aqua
23:24 <PovAddict> [00:12] <zombie67> there is a d&d channel/
23:24 <PovAddict> not that I know of
23:24 <Tank_Master> the point where I started going up is where I got the i7 and the qx9750
23:24 <PovAddict> it was from #swig (semantic web interest group); someone is making highly detailed d&d monster descriptions in RDF
23:25 <Tank_Master> the second bumb was aqua
23:25 <zombie67> ah
23:25 <zombie67> that too
23:25 <Romulus> Title: Paste #132596 | LodgeIt! (at paste.pocoo.org)
23:26 <zombie67> see, a single gpu project like MW, or a MP project like aqua, can almost IMMEDIATELY make cross-project stats meaningless
23:26 <PovAddict> yeah
23:26 <PovAddict> I had made long narratives showing credit flaws
23:26 <PovAddict> but I managed to shorten it to four lines that say it all
23:26 <Tank_Master> :)
23:27 <zombie67> it comes down to belief
23:27 <PovAddict> project A has a GPU app 2x faster than its CPU app
23:27 <PovAddict> project B has a GPU app 3x faster than its CPU app
23:27 <Tank_Master> project C has a 64bit CPU app thats 2x faster than the 32bit...
23:27 <zombie67> its like belief in god or abortion. People have an opinion that cannot be changed. period.
23:27 <PovAddict> how do you keep CPU credits equal across projects, GPU credits equal across projects, and both type of apps giving same credits for same WU within each project?
23:28 <zombie67> line 5: And then there is optimization....
23:28 <PovAddict> that's like saying a=2b, b=2c, and c=2a, there are no possible values for a, b, and c that can work
23:28 <PovAddict> hmm except 0 :D
23:29 <zombie67> promotes starting with a sloppy app, and THEN making it better
23:29 <PovAddict> zombie67: DA thought my example was a good one and agreed it was a problem
23:29 <PovAddict> ...and?
23:29 <zombie67> and close eyes, continue on, blindly
23:30 <zombie67> willfully blindly
23:30 <Tank_Master> :P
23:30 <PovAddict> "you're right, it's broken" ...and? where's the fix?
23:30 <Tank_Master> he's a liberal, its not up to him to fix
23:30 <Tank_Master> from his point of view
23:30 <MTughan> Oh, and has anyone noticed that PTP looks a lot like P2P?
23:30 <PovAddict> &grab MTughan
23:30 <Romulus> PovAddict: The operation succeeded.
23:31 <wdsmia> to bad DA didnt think it was a problem in 2004 when it was first brought up
23:31 <zombie67> dont worry, dr who will arrive just in time to save us
23:31 <Tank_Master> hehe
23:32 <zombie67> da was told about the problem (according to paul) over and over back then
23:33 <zombie67> megamilestones is the way to go
23:33 <zombie67> cross project RANKS
23:33 <MTughan> That encourages the projects to lower their credit to get more work.
23:33 <zombie67> heh
23:34 <zombie67> no
23:34 <zombie67> not really
23:34 <MTughan> I think weighted position comparing is the best.
23:34 <zombie67> it encourages people to work on projects with the LEAST amount of cometition
23:34 <zombie67> competition
23:34 <PovAddict> zombie67: well, I thought that was a good idea
23:34 <PovAddict> DA then said "that's not the point"
23:35 <Tank_Master> then what was?
23:35 <zombie67> of course not, any point that disagrees with him, is NOT THE POINT
23:35 <Tank_Master> forcing all project to give the same credits per hr?
23:35 <PovAddict> I thought it was better to make people join projects that currently have the least people
23:35 <zombie67> +1
23:36 <PovAddict> he says the goal is to let people join projects for their scientific merits, regardless of credits; what I suggested would (in theory) uniformly distribute users across projects
23:36 <PovAddict> even across useless ones
23:36 * Tank_Master goes n gets icecream
23:37 <MTughan> My opinion is that we should compare positioning in the projects, and bigger projects get bigger weight.
23:37 * PovAddict wonders if there's ice cream left
23:37 <PovAddict> I think it won't be in good state
23:37 <MTughan> So if you're number 1 in a big project, that carries a lot of influence on your standing. If you're number 1 in a small project, that carries less influence, as it's easier to acheive.
23:37 <PovAddict> MTughan: % rank?
23:38 <zombie67> but then that encourages more work in bigger projects
23:38 <MTughan> Yeah, I guess that would be percentage... :P
23:38 <PovAddict> rank / users in project
23:38 <zombie67> who by definition already have the crunchers
23:38 <MTughan> Why does that encourage bigger projects?
23:39 <zombie67> BTW, bok has already had this discussion
23:39 <MTughan> If you get number 1 in a lot of small projects, that can have more influence than number 1 in a big project.
23:39 <zombie67> weighted vs. not
23:39 <PovAddict> hmm
23:39 <PovAddict> makes some sense
23:39 <PovAddict> needs careful tweaking of weighting though
23:39 <PovAddict> which may be as tricky as tweaking multipliers for cross-project credit parity
23:40 <zombie67> he asked my team which we would like to see
23:40 <zombie67> the answer is: BOTH!
23:40 <MTughan> Yeah.
23:40 <MTughan> (to Pov)
23:41 <zombie67> show both stats, three if you count cross-project (meaningless), and let the users decide which is the most meaningful to themselves
23:41 <PovAddict> fact of life: we can't come up with something good in a single attempt
23:41 <zombie67> so bok may be implementing both stats
23:41 <zombie67> we'll see
23:42 <PovAddict> I read about protocol designers who spent years to solve a bit of a philosophical issue in HTTP, including multiple face-to-face meetings
23:42 <PovAddict> I'll spare you the details
23:42 <zombie67> the point is, we need to break the "only cross-project stats count" and "credits need to be "the same" across projects"
23:43 <PovAddict> first we need to convince stats sites to stop adding
23:43 <MTughan> Means we'd need to talk to the biggest ones.
23:43 <PovAddict> in fact, they'd have to remove lots of things
23:43 * PovAddict gets example
23:44 <zombie67> you want to the know the REAL barrier to new project being created? cross-project credits. They over-whelm newbie admins.
23:44 <PovAddict> ^ makes no sense if cross-project credits are removed
23:45 <zombie67> credits drive 90% of the "outrage" threads on forums
23:45 <PovAddict> yeah I have seen recent aqua posts...
23:45 <Tank_Master> fun reads :)
23:46 <PovAddict> to completely change around a saying...
23:46 <PovAddict> give a man three fish and from that point he'll think it's a rip-off if you ever give him only one
23:46 <PovAddict> he'll feel entitled to three
23:47 <PovAddict> that's what I saw in AQUA
23:47 <PovAddict> people quickly got used to overpaid credits and now complain if it goes below that
23:47 <PovAddict> they think the new credits are low when in fact the old ones were high
23:48 <PovAddict> I wonder what PTP will do with their G-Hours
23:48 <PovAddict> it's supposedly proportional to flops
23:49 <PovAddict> but you can't reliably get flops from credits
23:49 <PovAddict> and even the very definition of "flop" is useless in modern processors
23:49 <Tank_Master> not to mention different cpus do work diffrently
23:50 <Tank_Master> aka atom v amd
23:50 <PovAddict> yes, and that's not even saying Intel vs AMD...
23:50 <Tank_Master> yep
23:50 <PovAddict> Core vs Pentium is different enough already
23:51 <Tank_Master> heck, atom v core2ci7 is a mess all of its own
23:51 <Tank_Master> core2 v i7*
23:55 <PovAddict> ugh
23:56 <PovAddict> if aqua doesn't increase my quota, I'll try to take a single task and replicate it a thousand times on my own local project
23:56 <zombie67> wait, how will PTP pay different credits than the normal BOINC client?
23:56 <Tank_Master> sounds like a plan
23:56 <PovAddict> zombie67: it doesn't
23:57 <zombie67> what is g-hours then?
23:57 <PovAddict> zombie67: they convert credits into their own units, to show on the facebook application
23:57 <zombie67> HAHHAHAHHHH!
23:57 <PovAddict> but down there it's the usual credits we all love and hate
23:58 <PovAddict> they're pretending they can divide by a constant and say "this unit is a meaningful measure of the work you have done"
23:59 <zombie67> comparing rosetta (with what run time?? single quorum) to cpdn (which project? trickles??) to malaria (who doesn't allow new accounts, quorum of 3)
23:59 <zombie67> I mean....WTF?