IRC logs of #boinc for Tuesday, 2009-08-11

00:00 <PovAddict> name a project that has GPU and doesn't have problems.

00:00 <zombie67> GPUGRID?

00:00 <Romulus> I guess GPUGRID is in linux, zombie67

00:01 <PovAddict> having no CPU app, they stay away from lots of credit-related troubles

00:02 <zombie67> sorta

00:02 <PovAddict> sorta?

00:02 <zombie67> they benchmarked it with a CPU, and then when the GPU app made so much more credits

00:02 <zombie67> they had to "clear it" with DA

00:03 <zombie67> this was back in the PS3 days

00:03 <PovAddict> I know a tetris game on Facebook that has six different "variants"

00:03 <zombie67> once their method was validated, when they moved to GPUs, it was already accepted, so nut as much screaming

00:04 <PovAddict> each version of the game tracks score separately

00:04 <PovAddict> and it's the same facebook app, and I don't see anyone complaining about inability to compare a "total score" :)

00:05 <zombie67> seriously.

00:05 <PovAddict> let alone about score parity with Bejeweled 2

00:05 <zombie67> I think BOINCstats was probably the worst thing to happen to BOINC

00:05 <zombie67> and I LOVE BOINCstats

00:06 <PovAddict> one problem comparing video games to BOINC projects: scores are usually not cumulative

00:06 <PovAddict> you see your "high score"

00:06 <PovAddict> each individual game session (= each time you play) starts score from 0

00:07 <PovAddict> that doesn't even have an analogy in BOINC

00:07 <zombie67> compare ranks.  I have 3rd in pacman!  and 2nd in Defender!

00:08 <PovAddict> yes, but playing more doesn't give you more points

00:08 <PovAddict> playing better just once gives you a higher 'high score'

00:08 <efc> Hm. The netbook reported to BOINC that its a N270 with 2 cores, but wikipedia says N270 is single core..

00:09 <PovAddict> so maybe it should be compared to MMORPG-like games, where you constantly level up or accumulate some kind of score

00:09 <PovAddict> imagine a pacman that keeps track of how many total dots you have eaten, over all times you played

00:09 <zombie67> hrm

00:09 <PovAddict> matches BOINC better

00:10 <zombie67> and how does that relate to how many people I saved in defender?

00:10 <PovAddict> IT DOESN'T :)

00:10 <zombie67> heh

00:10 <zombie67> I have to change machines

00:10 <zombie67> brb

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00:14 <PovAddict> but, again, it should count how many total people you saved in defender, not how many you managed to save in a single game

00:14 <PovAddict> otherwise it would be like a BOINC project that resets credit on every WU

00:14 <PovAddict> imagine Rosetta ranking you by having calculated the lowest-energy protein, not by how many proteins you folded; if you're lucky you could be top 1 after crunching a single WU

00:14 <PovAddict> that would be similar to typical game scoring, if you play once and you happen to get a very high score, you could be 1st in ranks

00:14 <PovAddict> and that model would be silly in BOINC

00:16 <zombie67> more like golf?

00:16 <zombie67> you have an average.

00:16 <zombie67> handicap

00:17 <zombie67> but each course defines which holes are par 3, 4, 5

00:17 <PovAddict> well, if someone attaches a hundred Pentium II machines, he should get a decent rank

00:17 <PovAddict> compared to a single quad core

00:18 <PovAddict> so it should be compared to a game where, if you sucked, but played 24/7, you still could compete :P

00:20 <PovAddict> I used to play one online where, of course, playing better gave you more score

00:20 <PovAddict> but score was *added* to a total

00:20 <PovAddict> and your score for an individual game could only be negative in fairly silly situations

00:21 <zombie67> bottom line, games/projects cannot be compared except in rank

00:22 <PovAddict> I believe games can be made to have scoring similar to what makes sense in BOINC projects

00:23 <PovAddict> like I said before, imagine a pacman that keeps track of how many total dots you have eaten, over all times you played

00:23 * efc Actual Operation Counts..

00:24 <PovAddict> recipe: make an actual game like that, make another game that also has appropriate scoring, take working versions of both to a boinc workshop and prove a point :)

00:24 <zombie67> poc, but you cannot count total dots eaten to total people saved

00:24 <PovAddict> no you can't, I know that

00:24 <PovAddict> that's the point to be proven :)

00:25 <PovAddict> you need a slight variation on Pacman scoring: the game keeps track of your total, and not your highest score

00:25 <PovAddict> and in defender, keep track of how many total people you have saved

00:25 <PovAddict> then tell the BOINC devs and project admins to try to come up with a way for both to give total scores that can be compared

00:26 <PovAddict> they can change scores per dot eaten and per ghost eaten, they can change some kind of 'score multiplier' in both games to try to make them equal...

00:26 <zombie67> pg has badges too now

00:26 <PovAddict> and they may succeed

00:27 <PovAddict> they'd get them so good that the test subject (player), who's wearing a T-shirt reading 'CPU', will get similar total scores on both after five minutes of playing

00:27 <zombie67> and when GPU walks up?

00:28 <PovAddict> now bring another person wearing a 'GPU' t-shirt, who is better at defender and better but not by such a good factor at pacman...

00:28 <PovAddict> and you look at BOINC devs and ask them to tweak the multipliers again so total score per minute of playing is the same *for both*

00:28 <zombie67> jynx, you owe me a coke

00:28 <PovAddict> it's impossible!

00:30 <PovAddict> get me those two games and plane tickets to Barcelona before October 22nd and I'll do it :P

00:30 <PovAddict> http://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/wiki/WorkShop09

00:30 <Romulus> Title: !@#&Shop09 - BOINC - Trac (at boinc.berkeley.edu)

00:33 <zombie67> so PG completed one of the searches.  and it's over.  Feels sad.

00:34 <PovAddict> what? no more twin primes?

00:34 <zombie67> yep

00:34 <zombie67> World Record Twin Primes returned

00:34 <zombie67> 2009-08-06 16:20 UTC

00:34 <zombie67> The search is finally over!!! The Twin Primes have been discovered!!! Verification was quickly completed and the appropriate users are being contacted. Credit will be shared between the finder, top producer in terms of M, top producer in terms of primes found, and top siever. The Twin Primes were actually returned on the SAME!!! day as the Cullen Prime but were overlooked in the excitement of the Cullen.

00:34 <zombie67> Work generation has been terminated so please select another project if TPS was your only project. The project will remain active until all outstanding work has been returned and credited. Stay tuned for more details.

00:38 <efc> They were only looking for one twin prime?

00:38 <PovAddict> I think they were only looking for a giant one

00:38 <PovAddict> and found many others in the way

00:39 <efc> Don't see why they wouldn't continue

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00:53 <zombie67> "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."  --  Calvin

00:54 <PovAddict> sounds familiar

00:55 <PovAddict> not that I consider myself a super genius, but in *some* things, I did have the feeling of having to deal with all the idiots around me

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01:10 <efc> They say that Genius is never recognized in its own time. My genius is so great that it may NEVER be recognized.

01:11 <Tank_Master> heh

01:12 <SolitonWave> Hmm, I still have a WiFi signal

01:13 <Tank_Master> your observant

01:13 <MTughan> Tank_Master: About that guy asking about boinc cloaks before?

01:13 <MTughan> He means something like what I have.

01:13 <SolitonWave> We BOINC participants are masters of observation

01:14 <MTughan> MTughan!i=mtughan@synecdoche/developer/pdpc.active.mtughan

01:14 <Tank_Master> yeah, I know

01:14 <Tank_Master> hides the IP

01:14 <MTughan> So he was wanting a boinc/user/* or something.

01:14 <Tank_Master> but all I gotta do is reboot my router and I get a new ip

01:14 <MTughan> Heh, or even boinc/cruncher/*

01:15 <SolitonWave> Is there a way to get BOINC coffee cups?

01:15 <Tank_Master> lol

01:15 <PovAddict> yes

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01:19 <SolitonWave_x> I don't see a link at BOINC for BOINC related stuff to buy

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01:26 <MTughan> Random quit message: quit ("Read error: 666 (Connection reset by beer)")

01:28 <Tank_Master> lol

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01:47 <zombie67> Special-interest publications should realize that if they are attracting enough advertising and readers to make a profit, the interest is not so special. -- Fran Lebowitz

01:54 <Tank_Master> :)

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02:01 * SolitonWave ponders what zombie wrote

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02:04 <zombie67> you want thick?

02:05 <Tank_Master> how can it be special if it has enough support to be popular?

02:05 <Tank_Master> and profitable

02:05 <zombie67> "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force.  Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." -- George Washington

02:14 <efc> Hmm, those Atoms with the Ion chipset are supposed to be able to run CUDA..

02:14 <Tank_Master> slowly...

02:16 <efc> Still, the flops/watt ought to kick butt

02:16 <Tank_Master> probably

02:16 <Tank_Master> depends on the project to

02:16 <efc> might entice me to pay the extra $$ for the ion

02:16 <Tank_Master> but I wsa getting 1,125 RAC off ABC 64bit

02:17 <Tank_Master> id assuming that a good cuda project might get another 1-2k

02:18 <SolitonWave> hmm

02:19 <zombie67> right.  AQUA + GPUGRID (assumes a fast cuda card) is best

02:21 <Tank_Master> why not colatz?

02:21 <Tank_Master> and you can add a gpu card to an ion

02:21 <Tank_Master> your stuck with the 9300

02:25 <zombie67> colatz and gpugrid are about the same credits

02:25 <zombie67> however, colatz is better or slower gpus

02:25 <zombie67> longer due date

02:26 <MTughan> Tank_Master: Was that supposed to be "you *can't* add a gpu card to an ion"?

02:26 <Tank_Master> yes, mt

02:26 <Tank_Master> my bad

02:28 <zombie67> I was talking about  330  + GPU

02:29 * efc looks on the forums, bad idea

02:30 <zombie67> the key is a PSU that will drive a GTX

02:31 <Tank_Master> the atom platforms only have PCI or PCI-e x1 slots

02:31 <Tank_Master> no AGP or PCI-e 16x

02:31 <zombie67> well that sucks

02:31 <MTughan> If the PCIe x1 slot is unkeyed, you can still run x16 cards.

02:32 <MTughan> I don't know how fast that will be though.

02:32 <Tank_Master> no, they are only the 1x slot

02:32 <efc> I would just be trying to get a nice bonus off a file server

02:32 <MTughan> That's the nice thing about PCIe. You can run x16 cards on an x8 slot, or x4 cards in an x16 slot, or other stuff like that.

02:33 <Tank_Master> not it its a 1x physical

02:33 <MTughan> So?

02:33 <Romulus> It has been said that So is the company that uses the solar panels green, MTughan

02:33 <MTughan> forget So

02:33 <Romulus> 10-4!

02:33 <Tank_Master> you cant put a 16x card in a 1x slot

02:33 <MTughan> As long as there's no plastic at the end of the slot to prevent larger cards, you can run x16 cards in an x1 slot.

02:34 <Tank_Master> and im saying there is on the atom mobos

02:34 <Tank_Master> I have one

02:34 <MTughan> Is that true for all Atom mobos?

02:34 <Tank_Master> I have only seen one atom mobo with a PCI-e

02:34 <Tank_Master> all the other are PCI

02:35 <zombie67> chipset?

02:35 <Tank_Master> I have the one with PCI-e 1x (it also has 2 PCI)

02:35 <Tank_Master> standard desktop 945

02:35 <zombie67> I think it comes down to the mobo

02:36 <MTughan> "Even though the two would be signal-compatible, it is not usually possible to place a physically larger PCIe card (e.g., a 16 sized card) into a smaller slot though some motherboards have open-ended PCIe slots that will allow this."

02:36 <efc> The power that a big card would take would probably overwhelm your average Atom power supply.. ?

02:37 <MTughan> <zombie67> the key is a PSU that will drive a GTX

02:37 <Tank_Master> mine is a 300w ps

02:37 <Tank_Master> the system only uses about 25w

02:37 <efc> Yikes.. you know they usually are pretty inefficient at very low draw.. At least according to stuff from long ago

02:37 <Tank_Master> so id have about 250w for a gpu

02:38 <Tank_Master> yes, I know

02:38 <Tank_Master> but its the lowest 80+

02:38 <Tank_Master> anything lower was more ineffecent anyway

02:41 <efc> http://members.verizon.net/~vze24qhw/mini_c~2.jpg

02:41 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/mdu27j> (at members.verizon.net)

02:42 <Tank_Master> spiffy

02:43 <efc> Hmm, there have to be a few Ions in the databases..

02:43 <Tank_Master> they may show up as atoms with geforce 9300

02:47 <efc> Cool thanks

02:50 <efc> Maybe Pov can look for me sometime

02:50 <efc> Don't see much way to search

02:56 <MTughan> efc: Small cruncher farm?

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03:16 <efc> Looks like it. all mini-itx boards.

03:16 <efc> he didn't say which one

03:16 <efc> which kind i mean

03:19 <Tank_Master> mine is a pico mobo

03:19 <Tank_Master> has 3 expantion slots instead of 1

03:21 <efc> Pico? Those are really itty bitty

03:22 <efc> I found a REALLY little one for microcontroller type stuff

03:22 <Tank_Master> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813153144

03:22 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/lffo5d> (at www.newegg.com)

03:22 <Tank_Master> thats the mobo I got

03:23 <efc> http://www.trossenrobotics.com/roboard.aspx

03:23 <Romulus> Title: Roboard - Heart of Robotics (at www.trossenrobotics.com)

03:26 <efc> I'd guess thats a stinker performance wise

03:26 <Tank_Master> probably

03:26 <efc> not that you'd expect much

03:28 <efc> 2 wattts for the whole thing

03:30 <Tank_Master> :)

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04:43 <CoderForLife> &wx 45140

04:43 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Temperature: 69.8F / 21.0C | Humidity: 94% | Pressure: 29.69in / 1005.3hPa (Steady) | Conditions: Partly Cloudy | Wind Direction: WSW | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Today - Mostly cloudy early this morning...then becoming partly sunny. A chance of showers and thunderstorms this afternoon. Highs in the mid 80s. West winds around 5 mph...increasing to around 10 mph late. Chance of (1 more message)

04:44 <CoderForLife> &more

04:44 <Romulus> CoderForLife: rain 30 percent.; Tonight - Partly cloudy. A chance of showers and thunderstorms... mainly in the evening. Lows in the mid 60s. Northwest winds 5 to 10 mph...becoming north after midnight. Chance of rain 30 percent.; Wednesday - Partly sunny. A slight chance of showers and thunderstorms in the afternoon. Highs in the mid 80s. North winds 5 to 10 mph. Chance of rain 20 percent.;

05:46 <MTughan> MW feeder is down.

06:30 <wdsmia> &wx 50319

06:30 <Romulus> wdsmia: Temperature: 64.2F / 17.9C | Humidity: 95% | Pressure: 30.05in / 1017.5hPa (Steady) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: South | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Today - Sunny. Patchy fog through mid morning. High in the mid 80s. North wind near 5 mph.; Tonight - Clear. Low in the mid 60s. East wind near 5 mph shifting to the south after midnight.; Wednesday - Sunny. High in the upper 80s. (1 more message)

06:30 <wdsmia> &more

06:30 <Romulus> wdsmia: South wind 5 to 10 mph.;

06:31 <MTughan> Morning Doug.

06:31 <wdsmia> mornin

06:31 <hawmps> 'lo

06:32 <MTughan> And Jay.

06:35 <hawmps> spork >> 221.238.249.83, 196.203.88.245, 202.57.49.241, 219.235.232.11

06:36 <hawmps> OK.. that's aggravating....

06:36 <hawmps> no cuda app running, and I get '

06:36 <MTughan> hawmps: Is your web server working?

06:36 <MTughan> I can't connect to lledgerock.com

06:36 <hawmps> 'screen flash'

06:36 <hawmps> no, it's not working.

06:36 <MTughan> Okay.

06:46 <hawmps> brb.. testing something

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06:48 <hawmps> that was fast..

06:48 <MTughan> Very.

06:48 <MTughan> Oh, a minute apart... Nvm.

06:48 <hawmps> one minor xorg.conf change

06:49 <MTughan> The seconds when you quit and joined were the same, so I thought you'd quit and joined in the same second. :P But they're a minute apart.

06:49 <hawmps> 06:46:23 >> 06:47

06:49 <MTughan> I see 6:46:29 -> 6:47:29

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09:26 <KathrynM> AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

09:26 <KathrynM> there I feel better now

09:30 <hawmps> silent scream?

09:30 <hawmps> or a good muscle snapping stretch?

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09:32 <KathrynM> screwam

09:32 <KathrynM> errrrrrrr scream

09:34 <hawmps> okeydokeythen...

09:37 <KathrynM> lol http://www.codehappy.net/nocrazy.htm

09:37 <Romulus> Title: Codehappy.net: How Not To Go Crazy, in the Lunchbox (at www.codehappy.net)

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09:42 <hawmps> nuts.. AQUA with not linux cuda work

09:42 <hawmps> er no, even.

09:44 <hawmps> another spork >> 69.50.252.73

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10:59 <PovAddict> KathrynM: what was the argh for? (do I even want to know?)

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12:18 <hawmps> interesting tidbit Evangelos Katikos just dug up..

12:18 <Tank_Master> oh?

12:18 <Romulus> hmm... oh is it ever up? :), Tank_Master

12:18 <Tank_Master> forget oh

12:18 <Romulus> Gotcha, Tank_Master.

12:19 <PovAddict> "just"? he has been complaining about it for like two months, and no action from devs yet

12:19 <PovAddict> as usual

12:24 <hawmps> I know, but the rock solid proof helps..

12:24 <hawmps> hell, I'm running home built 6.8.13 and it's still broken.

12:25 <PovAddict> "I should point out that when somebody asked HQ for the wiring diagram to connect up a certain piece of equipment, their senior lab expert sent back a diagram that includes, among other things, a paper clip to complete the circuit."

12:34 <hawmps> again >> 221.238.249.83

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13:07 <yomshleeshee> yikes, anyone see the cosmology@home site's black layout. not a fan, too dark.

13:07 <Tank_Master> lol

13:08 <Tank_Master> some prefer it

13:08 <yomshleeshee> :-/

13:08 <yomshleeshee> too bad you can't select a different CSS

13:08 <yomshleeshee> I was filling out the CPU preferences. can't see the textboxes

13:09 <yomshleeshee> do like the content though, I'll give them that.

13:09 <Tank_Master> :)

13:13 <yomshleeshee> just to double check. If I (in computing preferences) select set "Suspend owrk while computer is in use" = no. It'll still run at a low priority, but won't wait for the mouse/keyboard to become inactive, correct?

13:16 * yomshleeshee can hear a pin drop...

13:17 <MTughan> yomshleeshee: That means it won't stop computation if you're active.

13:17 <yomshleeshee> k, just wanted to double check

13:18 <yomshleeshee> so any guess why if I have that set to yes in cosmo@home, their task isn't running?

13:19 <yomshleeshee> Run based on preferences is selected in the client and my web preferences are not to suspend when active

13:19 <yomshleeshee> And there's plenty of "System Idle Process" to gobble up

13:20 <yomshleeshee> FYI, it turns on when I select Run Always

13:20 <MTughan> Update the project to update preferences.

13:20 <yomshleeshee> did. but I can do it again.

13:22 <hawmps> CINCINNATI -- More than 30 people are facing charges in connection to an illegal marriage immigration ring that reached not only the Tri-State, but across the midwest.

13:22 <hawmps> lol

13:23 <yomshleeshee> hmm, apparently there's a web based *and* GUI based preference now. that's new to me.

13:24 <yomshleeshee> sync'ed

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15:12 <hawmps> hate that..

15:12 <yomshleeshee> :-/

15:13 <Tank_Master> heh

15:17 <MTughan> hawmps: You can take that off.

15:18 <hawmps> take what off?

15:18 <MTughan> Autoop.

15:18 <hawmps> no $h1t

15:19 <MTughan> Got some nasty looking clouds rolling in now...

15:19 <MTughan> &wx YOW

15:19 <Romulus> MTughan: Temperature: 81°F / 27°C | Humidity: 58% | Pressure: 29.85in / 1011hPa | Conditions: Scattered Clouds | Wind Direction: West | Wind Speed: 7mph / 11km/h | Updated: 3:00 PM EDT; Today - Showers with thunderstorms. Risk of a severe thunderstorm. High 23C(73F). UV index 3 or moderate.; Tonight - A few showers with thunderstorms ending this evening then clearing. Risk of a severe thunderstorm (1 more message)

15:19 <MTughan> Oh, a severe thunderstorm would explain it...

15:19 <hawmps> looked like it on radar...

15:19 <hawmps> &more MTughan

15:19 <Romulus> hawmps: early this evening. Low 15C(59F).; Wednesday - A mix of sun and cloud. 30 percent chance of showers in the afternoon with the risk of a thunderstorm. Clearing late in the day. High 27C(81F).;

15:20 <MTughan> yomshleeshee: Interested in something?

15:20 <hawmps> uh-huh.

15:20 <PovAddict> &wx eze

15:20 <yomshleeshee> your weather sounded just like mine only delayed a bit

15:20 <Romulus> PovAddict: Temperature: 65°F / 18°C | Humidity: 26% | Pressure: 30.07in / 1018hPa | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: NW | Wind Speed: 10mph / 17km/h | Updated: 3:00 PM ART; Partly Cloudy. High:68 F.; Scattered Clouds. Low:46 F.; Scattered Clouds. High:68 F.; Partly Cloudy. Low:51 F.; Chance of Rain. High:71 F.; Chance of Rain. Low:46 F.;

15:20 <yomshleeshee> was curious if you were geographically possibly just east

15:20 <MTughan> &airport YOW

15:20 <Romulus> MTughan: Ottawa - Hull, Canada

15:20 <yomshleeshee> Hmm, nm, coincidence

15:24 <yomshleeshee> yeah, we just had some of that weather, but it's cleared up

15:24 <yomshleeshee> &airport YOW

15:24 <Romulus> yomshleeshee: Ottawa - Hull, Canada

15:24 <yomshleeshee> hmm not what I expected

15:25 <PovAddict> ?

15:25 <PovAddict> that's what the YOW airport code is for

15:25 <PovAddict> &airport EZE

15:25 <Romulus> PovAddict: Buenos Aires - Ezeiza/Min=>tro P=>tarini <Argentinia>

15:25 <yomshleeshee> &airport STL

15:25 <Romulus> yomshleeshee: St. Louis, MO, USA

15:25 <yomshleeshee> ah

15:25 <yomshleeshee> nice

15:28 <MTughan> There's the rain...

15:29 <MTughan> PovAddict: I'm in the middle of fixing up the Weather plugin, and one of the modifications I made to that command is to add the location to the output. Makes it easy to see the location for an obscure identifier, or if you've got the wrong place. ;)

15:29 <MTughan> &wx Toronto, ON

15:29 <MTughan> &wx Toronto, Ontario

15:29 <Romulus> MTughan: Temperature: 70°F / 21°C | Humidity: 83% | Pressure: 29.89in / 1012hPa | Conditions: Light Rain | Wind Direction: North | Wind Speed: 4mph / 6km/h | Updated: 3:21 PM EDT; Tonight - Showers at times heavy or a few thunderstorms ending early this evening then clearing. Risk of a severe thunderstorm. Amount 25 mm(1.0 in) in thunderstorms. Low 16C(61F).; Wednesday - Increasing cloudiness late (1 more message)

15:29 <Romulus> MTughan: Temperature: 70°F / 21°C | Humidity: 83% | Pressure: 29.89in / 1012hPa | Conditions: Light Rain | Wind Direction: North | Wind Speed: 4mph / 6km/h | Updated: 3:21 PM EDT; Tonight - Showers at times heavy or a few thunderstorms ending early this evening then clearing. Risk of a severe thunderstorm. Amount 25 mm(1.0 in) in thunderstorms. Low 16C(61F).; Wednesday - Increasing cloudiness late (1 more message)

15:29 <MTughan> Oh, that one does work... Nvm.

15:32 <Tank_Master> fun times!

15:33 <MTughan> Oh yeah, it's definitely raining...

15:34 <MTughan> Possibly some hail mixed in there too.

15:34 <PovAddict> pictures or it didn't ha<gets shot>

15:35 <MTughan> What, of the rain, or of the hail?

15:39 <MTughan> Actually, looks like the first bit of rain was the worst. It's let up slightly.

15:43 <MTughan> And just like that, the rain has stopped again... o_O

15:43 <MTughan> Stupid weather.

15:43 <yomshleeshee> ha

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17:13 <xcamel> it's missing us..

17:13 <MTughan> Really?

17:14 <xcamel> looks like it's all staying up north..

17:14 <xcamel> or will hit tomorrow..

17:15 <MTughan> Of you or me?

17:15 <xcamel> north of me.. fairly hefty cell hitting you however..

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17:19 <MTughan> Was. It's basically clear skies now.

17:20 <MTughan> Started around 3:25, went for ~20 minutes, and it's been clear ever since.

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18:13 <wdsmia> &wx 50319

18:13 <Romulus> wdsmia: Temperature: 83.6F / 28.7C | Humidity: 53% | Pressure: 30.05in / 1017.5hPa (Steady) | Conditions: Partly Cloudy | Wind Direction: NNW | Wind Speed: 1.0mph / 1.6km/h ; Tonight - Mostly clear. Low in the mid 60s. Southwest wind near 5 mph.; Wednesday - Sunny. High in the upper 80s. South wind near 10 mph.; Wednesday Night - Partly cloudy. A 20 percent chance of thunderstorms after midnight. (1 more message)

18:13 <wdsmia> &more

18:13 <Romulus> wdsmia: Low in the mid 60s. South wind 5 to 10 mph.;

18:14 <CoderForLife> &wx 45140

18:14 <Romulus> CoderForLife: Temperature: 81.3F / 27.4C | Humidity: 96% | Pressure: 29.89in / 1012.1hPa (Steady) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: East | Wind Speed: 1.1mph / 1.8km/h ; Tonight - Partly cloudy. A chance of showers and thunderstorms...mainly this evening. Lows in the mid 60s. Northwest winds 5 to 10 mph. Chance of rain 30 percent.; Wednesday - Mostly sunny. Highs in the mid 80s. North winds 5 (1 more message)

18:14 <CoderForLife> &more

18:14 <Romulus> CoderForLife: to 10 mph.; Wednesday Night - Clear. Lows in the lower 60s. Northeast winds around 5 mph.;

18:14 <wdsmia> *lo Don

18:14 <CoderForLife> looks like I just got my 30% this evening

18:14 <CoderForLife> hey Doug =)

18:15 *** ChanServ sets mode: -o CoderForLife

18:16 <wdsmia> looks like your living in a sauna

18:16 <MTughan> Looks like the weather we'll be getting over the next couple of days...

18:16 <MTughan> 27C, 26C, 27C, 28C, 31C...

18:18 <wdsmia> State fair starting tomarrow so we will have the normal heat wav for the next week

18:19 <MTughan> Up until this week, was it quite cool for you too?

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18:20 <MTughan> That's what I've noticed here: a cooler than average summer up until the weekend, and now we're being pummeled with heat.

18:22 <MTughan> Well, the Internet just died some more... Now IE hijacks NXDOMAIN responses.

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18:24 <Tank_Master> funny

18:25 <MTughan> Long live non-IE.

18:25 <Tank_Master> we had a warmer than normal summer, now its cooler than normal

18:42 <PovAddict> IE hijacks what?

18:42 <MTughan> NXDOMAIN responses.

18:43 <MTughan> From what I can tell, if it gets an NXDOMAIN response from the DNS, it goes to Bing automatically.

18:43 <PovAddict> O_O

18:43 <PovAddict> that's my one and only reason not to use OpenDNS

18:43 <MTughan> Apparently confirmed with IE 6 and 7, and one positive report from IE 8.

18:45 <MTughan> Oh, maybe that's been changed...

18:45 <PovAddict> does it install some system-wide DNS hook that causes DNS requests in the entire system to return bing?

18:45 <MTughan> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/08/11/2149218/

18:45 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/qofxsx> (at tech.slashdot.org)

18:45 <PovAddict> reading that one

18:46 <MTughan> I use the 4.2.2.(1-6) series of DNS servers here.

18:46 <PovAddict> I think that article is bullcrap

18:46 <MTughan> That's very possible.

18:46 <PovAddict> modern browsers take you to a search page if the page is not found

18:47 <PovAddict> that has nothing to do with DNS, it doesn't do any hijacking at the DNS level

18:47 <MTughan> And I think IE does it already anyway.

18:47 <PovAddict> it doesn't cause DNS requests to always point at bing IP address (like OpenDNS and some ISPs do)

18:47 <PovAddict> the iPhone web browser tries www.example.com if example.com resolves to NXDOMAIN, is that hijacking?

18:49 <PovAddict> DNS hijacking is way worse... if you try to attach a non-existent domain name as a BOINC project, the BOINC client will do a successful request to... some stupid search engine, and won't find the scheduler URL

18:50 <PovAddict> trying to be "helpful" with a search page should be a browser feature, DNS is a few levels lower

18:50 <MTughan> Oh, and Firefox already does it too.

18:52 <Tank_Master> verizon fios will redirect you to their search page on a page not found

18:53 <PovAddict> THAT is DNS hijacking, and it sucks

18:53 <Tank_Master> or rather on a domain not found

18:53 <MTughan> Yep.

18:53 <Tank_Master> ie - www.dhsioghds.com

18:53 <Tank_Master> would go to yahpp powered by verizon

18:53 <Tank_Master> yahoo*

18:54 <MTughan> Soon to be Yahoo powered by Bing.

18:54 <Tank_Master> :)

18:54 <Tank_Master> and bing ads powered by yahoo

18:54 <MTughan> Yep.

18:55 <Tank_Master> interesting times!

18:55 <MTughan> Oh, talking about ads... Reminds me of a conference I was at a couple months ago. There was a presentation about Facebook apps by a Google developer.

18:55 <MTughan> He was going to say something about the ads, but had to disable AdBlock Plus first. xD

18:56 <PovAddict> wow, that's...

18:56 <PovAddict> a developer working on a company that lives off ads, using AdBlock?

18:56 <MTughan> Haha, yeah.

18:56 <Tank_Master> nice

18:57 <Tank_Master> the ol "not in my backyard: mentality

18:59 <PovAddict> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8193951.stm

18:59 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/mpt8tc> (at news.bbc.co.uk)

19:07 <xcamel> re-hi

19:09 <wdsmia> *lo Jay

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19:29 <KathrynM> while on vacation, I was stuck with IE 7.  I can seriously say FB with ads sucks

19:31 <Tank_Master> facebook?

19:31 <Romulus> Somebody said facebook is the only one I have, Tank_Master

19:31 * CoderForLife waves to KathrynM

19:31 <Tank_Master> forget facebook

19:31 <Romulus> 10-4!

19:32 * KathrynM waves to her favorite life long coder

19:32 <CoderForLife> =)

19:33 <KathrynM> http://esladventures.net/presentation_music/fairy_tales.doc

19:33 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/odlofs> (at esladventures.net)

19:33 <KathrynM> is what I was screaming about last night PovAddict

19:33 <PovAddict> Konqueror has built-in ad blocking

19:33 <KathrynM> trying to get an entire character description down to 8 sentences

19:34 <PovAddict> but the blacklist was made before facebook existed

19:35 <PovAddict> is that for kids to read?

19:35 <KathrynM> it's for presentations

19:35 <KathrynM> so yeah, the kiddies get up on stage and do it

19:36 <PovAddict> how old are they?

19:37 <KathrynM> this is for some 6 year olds

19:37 <KathrynM> errrr

19:37 <KathrynM> korean 6, so western 5

19:37 <PovAddict> there's a few sentences that look like they could be simpler

19:37 <KathrynM> yeah, they could

19:37 <KathrynM> it's a first draft

19:37 <KathrynM> and not complete

19:38 <KathrynM> last year's line up

19:38 <KathrynM> http://www.esladventures.net/blog/2008/10/13/countdown-to-presentations-2008/

19:38 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/q59txo> (at www.esladventures.net)

19:38 <PovAddict> "I'm very interested in humans even though my father doesn't want me to be", using 'but' instead of 'even though' sounds better

19:38 <KathrynM> gotta try to see if I can make the side bars bigger

19:38 <KathrynM> or find a new theme :)

19:39 <PovAddict> uh yeah

19:39 <PovAddict> the gradient on the left is... a bit too much :)

19:40 <KathrynM> it's a cute theme

19:40 <KathrynM> but so limiting

19:40 <PovAddict> heh

19:41 <KathrynM> found out last night kompozer isn't in the repos

19:41 <KathrynM> :/

19:42 <KathrynM> the only wysiwyg editor in the repos (that I could find) was seamonkey.  I lothe to download an entire freaking package (browser, email, etc) for an editor

19:42 <KathrynM> but meh

19:45 <Tank_Master> :)

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19:47 <PovAddict_> power outage

19:47 <PovAddict_> D:

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19:47 <Tank_Master> bummer

19:49 <xcamel> bummah, too.

19:49 <PovAddict> KathrynM: wysiwyg?

19:49 <KathrynM> yeah

19:49 <PovAddict> you'll get your geek license revoked

19:49 <PovAddict> :D

19:49 <KathrynM> Iknow

19:49 <Tank_Master> lol

19:50 <KathrynM> but web stuff isn't my forte

19:50 <KathrynM> not that any sort of code is my forte

19:50 <Tank_Master> same here

19:51 * CoderForLife looks up

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19:51 <Tank_Master> wb to the real world, CoderForLife

19:51 <CoderForLife> me either

19:51 <KathrynM> now CoderForLife on the other hand

19:52 <CoderForLife> I've been busy re-wiring my brain to Code iPhone

19:52 <xcamel> forte?.. not thirteh-nine?

19:53 <Tank_Master> ?

19:53 <Tank_Master> huh

19:53 <CoderForLife> fifte here

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19:54 <xcamel> dittoh

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19:55 <PovAddict> again :(

19:55 <wdsmia> forte six Im the young one :P

19:55 * PovAddict should get the network stuff connected to the UPS

19:55 <Tank_Master> that would be good

19:56 <xcamel> pov is powerless.

19:56 <PovAddict> and you're punful? :)

20:01 <CoderForLife> fifte won hear, axeually

20:02 <wdsmia> next month i have to add one to my total :(

20:03 <CoderForLife> ditto

20:03 <CoderForLife> 28th

20:03 <wdsmia> 13th

20:09 <wdsmia> a Libra well that explanes a few things Don

20:09 <CoderForLife> I'll never beat you in RAC, so I'll just have to rely on age

20:10 <CoderForLife> you're a Libra wannabe?

20:10 <wdsmia> no thank you

20:10 <wdsmia> you can keep the age too

20:11 <CoderForLife> once you are a Libra, you'll never be anything else

20:13 <KathrynM> very true CoderForLife

20:13 <KathrynM> us Libras have to stick together

20:14 <Tank_Master> :)

20:14 <CoderForLife> =)

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20:16 <wdsmia> Libra's the Valentine gift that keeps giving

20:17 <CoderForLife> "everything in balance" I always say

20:17 <CoderForLife> "weigh every decision carefully"

20:18 <CoderForLife> "what goes up must come down"

20:18 <CoderForLife> "teeter totter, bread and water"

20:19 <CoderForLife> etc

20:19 <CoderForLife> all Libran favorite expressions

20:20 * CoderForLife goes back to iPhone Coding where he will do much better, he hopes

20:21 <Tank_Master> you really like to torchur yourself, dont you?

20:21 <Tank_Master> :D

20:21 <wdsmia> lol

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20:59 <CoderForLife> gn all

21:04 * jackygrahamez_ meow

21:12 <PovAddict> woof

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21:54 <Tank_Master> howdy jackygrahamez_

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23:08 <jasong1> How do you suppress a website from results?

23:09 <jasong1> Stupid Microsoft people reset my computer again

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23:10 <Tank_Master> sure, blame MS

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