IRC logs of #boinc for Friday, 2009-10-16

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01:52 <reflect> I guess where my boinc client says "No coprocessors" that's where it would have said something about a GPU, I take it?

01:54 <Tank_Master> yeah

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01:55 <Tank_Master> its more discriptive in the later 6.10.x builds

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01:55 <yoyo[RKN]> moin

01:56 <yoyo[RKN]> &wx sxf

01:56 <Tank_Master> tells you it cant fina a cuda device or a cal device

01:56 <Romulus> yoyo[RKN]: Temperature: 39°F / 4°C | Humidity: 93% | Pressure: 29.95in / 1014hPa | Conditions: Mostly Cloudy | Wind Direction: WSW | Wind Speed: 8mph / 13km/h | Updated: 7:50 AM CEST; Unknown. High:37 F.; Chance of Rain. Low:33 F.; Chance of Snow. High:39 F.; Chance of Snow. Low:33 F.; Chance of Rain. High:42 F.; Chance of Rain. Low:37 F.;

01:56 <Tank_Master> morning yoyo[RKN]

01:56 <Tank_Master> should I go to bed now?

01:56 <yoyo[RKN]> jup

01:56 <Tank_Master> dang

01:56 <yoyo[RKN]> 8am here

01:56 <Tank_Master> 22:56

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02:17 <Tidus> moo

02:41 <yoyo[RKN]> moin

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06:20 <hawmps> 'lo

07:12 <hawmps> &wx 12020

07:12 <Romulus> hawmps: Temperature: 36.5F / 2.5C | Humidity: 61% | Pressure: 29.80in / 1009.0hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Overcast | Wind Direction: NNE | Wind Speed: 3.0mph / 4.8km/h ; Today - Cloudy. A chance of rain or snow this morning...then a slight chance of rain this afternoon. Highs in the mid 40s. Northeast winds 5 to 10 mph. Chance of precipitation 30 percent.; Tonight - Cloudy. Cold with lows in the (1 more message)

07:12 <hawmps> &more

07:12 <Romulus> hawmps: upper 20s. North winds around 5 mph.; Saturday - Cloudy. A chance of rain in the afternoon. Highs in the upper 40s. Northeast winds 5 to 10 mph. Chance of rain 30 percent.;

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07:54 <CoderForLife> MS reboot

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08:17 <hawmps> lol

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08:48 <wdsmia> &wx 50319

08:48 <Romulus> wdsmia: Temperature: 38.8F / 3.8C | Humidity: 94% | Pressure: 30.22in / 1023.2hPa (Falling) | Conditions: Overcast | Wind Direction: NNW | Wind Speed: 1.0mph / 1.6km/h ; Today - Cloudy. Areas of drizzle in the morning...then a slight chance of light rain in the afternoon. High in the upper 40s. Northwest wind 5 to 10 mph. Chance of rain 20 percent.; Tonight - Cloudy. A chance of light rain through (1 more message)

08:49 <wdsmia> &more

08:49 <Romulus> wdsmia: midnight...then a slight chance of light rain after midnight. Low in the lower 30s. Northwest wind around 5 mph. Chance of rain 40 percent.; Saturday - Partly sunny. High in the upper 40s. North wind 5 to 10 mph.;

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10:28 <reflect> ah, got it to find my GPU, but.. the project has no GPU blocks available.. =P

10:28 <reflect> how much does it affect the graphics performance while running GPU calculations, btw? (ballpark)

10:30 <hawmps> no problem for desktop stuff, but I would avoid gaming..

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11:14 <yoyo[RKN]> &wx sxf

11:14 <Romulus> yoyo[RKN]: Temperature: 39°F / 4°C | Humidity: 93% | Pressure: 29.74in / 1007hPa | Conditions: Drizzle | Wind Direction: East | Wind Speed: 10mph / 17km/h | Updated: 4:50 PM CEST; Chance of Snow. High:41 F.; Chance of Rain. Low:35 F.; Chance of Rain. High:46 F.; Chance of Rain. Low:37 F.; Scattered Clouds. High:44 F.; Scattered Clouds. Low:35 F.;

11:14 <yoyo[RKN]> &wx barcelona, spain

11:14 <Romulus> yoyo[RKN]: Temperature: 68°F / 20°C | Humidity: 33% | Pressure: 30.12in / 1020hPa | Conditions: Partly Cloudy | Wind Direction: SW | Wind Speed: 15mph / 24km/h | Updated: 5:00 PM CEST; Clear. High:64 F.; Clear. Low:53 F.; Clear. High:66 F.; Clear. Low:50 F.; Clear. High:64 F.; Clear. Low:53 F.;

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12:33 <axxum> &wx cnd

12:33 <Romulus> axxum: Temperature: 45°F / 7°C | Humidity: 100% | Pressure: 29.92in / 1013hPa | Conditions: Light Rain | Wind Direction: WNW | Wind Speed: 16mph / 26km/h | Updated: 7:00 PM EEST; Chance of Rain. High:60 F.; Chance of Rain. Low:39 F.; Partly Cloudy. High:55 F.; Chance of Rain. Low:42 F.; Chance of Rain. High:57 F.; Scattered Clouds. Low:48 F.;

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13:02 <PovAddict> &math convert 1095628124 bytes to MiB

13:02 <Romulus> PovAddict: 1044.87240219

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13:25 <yoyo[RKN]> &boincerr 195

13:25 <Romulus> yoyo[RKN]: Error: I couldn't find 195 in boincerr.

13:28 <PovAddict> &math convert 878505984.000000 bytes to MiB

13:28 <Romulus> PovAddict: 837.80859375

13:28 <PovAddict> crap

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14:13 <hawmps> &boincerr -195

14:13 <Romulus> hawmps: no app version

14:13 <hawmps> 'no app version' is the error.

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14:16 <Migi32> hey everyone, I have a question:

14:17 <Migi32> how much more does it cost (per hour) to run an average computer at 100% CPU versus the average 2-3% CPU?

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14:17 <Migi32> (Plus 100% GPU)

14:17 <MTughan> Cost is dependent on how much the power costs.

14:17 <Migi32> yea but I'd like to get a rough estimate

14:17 <Migi32> I have absolutely no idea

14:17 <reflect> an ATI card at full power uses around 190 watts

14:18 <reflect> a modern one

14:18 <Migi32> ok and what's the rough estimate of a watt/hour?

14:18 <MTughan> But as for wattage numbers, my computer uses about 320-350W under full load, with an overclocked quad-core CPU and a Radeon HD4870.

14:18 <MTughan> I'll get you some idle numbers in a sec.

14:18 <Migi32> rough *price* estimate I mean

14:18 <Migi32> thank you very much

14:19 <MTughan> I'm probably running about 170W now idle.

14:19 <MTughan> Those numbers will depend on your computer too.

14:19 <Migi32> oh, so 100% takes only about twice as much as idle? I assumed it would cost more

14:19 <reflect> impossible to answer without knowing the price for electricity

14:20 <MTughan> Well, I don't know where my computer's drawing 170W from. It sounds too high to me.

14:20 <Migi32> by the way, how do you know?

14:20 <MTughan> UPS I have monitors power usage.

14:20 <Migi32> ah

14:20 <MTughan> And I know my LCD monitor takes 50-60W using a power meter.

14:26 <Migi32> ok so from the above I would conclude that all in all, a BOINC'ed PC will run at about 0.5kW versus an about 0.25kW on an idle PC, at the rate of 12/kWh, that's 6/h versus 3/h.

14:26 <Migi32> that 12/kWh is the average in the USA, but I guess it won't be all that different here in Belgium

14:27 <Migi32> heh, I assumed much worse

14:27 <MTughan> Well, it depends on your components too.

14:27 <MTughan> If you have better idling components than me (the Radeon HD4870 is known to be a high idling model), then your idle numbers will be lower.

14:27 <reflect> I don't think you can do such generalisations, though

14:28 <reflect> and modern CPUs are too much better at turning parts of themselves off, for instance

14:29 <Migi32> Yeah I know, but I really had no idea whether it would be $3/month, $30/month or $300/month

14:29 <MTughan> CPUs are fairly good at clocking down, yeah. That usually turns off once overclocked thought.

14:29 <MTughan> though*

14:29 <reflect> which could explain your high idle usage

14:29 <MTughan> I'm not OC'd now.

14:30 <Migi32> Are you overclocking? I always thought overclocking+boinc is a sure way to toast your pc

14:30 <MTughan> Overclocking can toast your CPU if you do it wrong.

14:30 <MTughan> If you do it right, which isn't too hard, you can get more performance from the same CPU. It will draw more power though.

14:31 <Migi32> what's the point? will those few percentages really matter?

14:31 <MTughan> reflect: Yeah, my processor is 2.4GHz stock (a Q6600). CPU-Z reports it's clocked down to 1.6GHz ATM idle.

14:31 <Migi32> anyway, my GPU takes on a lot more crunching than my CPU

14:31 <MTughan> Migi32: Well, mine is 2.4GHz stock. I got it up to 3.3GHz. That's about 35% faster.

14:31 <Migi32> and I got 2 GPU's :D

14:31 <MTughan> And that's for each core.

14:32 <MTughan> &math 1.35 ** 4

14:32 <Romulus> MTughan: 3.32150625

14:32 <Migi32> ?

14:32 <MTughan> Well, that seems off... Maybe I'm missing something, or I had made the CPU about 330% faster with overclocking.

14:33 <reflect> MTughan: that 35% faster is assuming alot, though..

14:33 <Migi32> no it remains 35% whether you have 1 or a thousand CPU's

14:33 <MTughan> Yeah, that sounds right... reflect: Such as?

14:33 <reflect> we did some rather extensive testing some years ago regarding overclocking

14:34 <reflect> and while the clock went up, you saturated other parts of the system.. like caches..  so, just cause you made the clock go as fast as it could, doesn't mean the system ran as fast as it could

14:34 <MTughan> That's true.

14:34 <reflect> it was often faster at a lower clock, than maximum possible

14:35 <MTughan> But BOINC is usually more CPU based. Other resources shouldn't bottleneck most projects. I don't know how the caches worked though.

14:35 <hawmps> find out what your price per KwH is..

14:35 <hawmps> then figure out what .707 of your PS output is

14:35 <reflect> yeah, that part depended heavily on what kind of calculation you were doing.. but I'm talking L1/L2/L3 caches here..

14:36 <Migi32> hawmps, on http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/cost.html I found it's on average 12 cents per kWh

14:36 <Romulus> Title: How much does electricity cost? What is a kilowatt-hour? (kWh) (at michaelbluejay.com)

14:36 <reflect> Migi32: just check your electricity bill.. here, it states the exact price per kWh

14:36 <Migi32> meh, if I did that my dad will think "what the hell have you been doing?"

14:37 <reflect> don't go by some average in some other country, as it differs wildly

14:37 <MTughan> hawmps: Why .707?

14:37 <MTughan> Efficiency is more complicated than that.

14:37 <reflect> Migi32: then check which company you're with, then check their homepage

14:37 <Migi32> reflect, sure on the north pole I guess it's more expensive :)

14:37 <hawmps> so if it's a 500w PS that would be (500*.707)*.12 per hour

14:38 <MTughan> 70.7% efficiency is a rather old PSU too.

14:38 <MTughan> For most new PSUs, you're closer to 75-85% at full load.

14:38 <hawmps> MT - because I've been doing electrical engineering longer than you've been alive.

14:38 <Migi32> .707 oddly resembles sqrt(2)/2

14:38 <hawmps> it is exactly that.

14:39 <Migi32> ah, I thought so

14:39 <MTughan> Okay, then I'm confused...

14:39 <hawmps> or the average of the 60 cycle sine wave input to your PS

14:39 <MTughan> Oh.

14:39 <MTughan> Wouldn't the average of a sine wave be 0?

14:40 <reflect> ie, what you get when you buy the cheapest hardware you can get your hands on, I take it

14:40 <Migi32> it's the average of the square of the sine

14:40 <Migi32> I think

14:40 <hawmps> voltage, yes. power, no.

14:41 <Migi32> anyway, I'm happy to know now that I can happily turn BOINC back on, knowing that it's financially not too big of a deal

14:42 <hawmps> it's downright cheap.

14:42 <reflect> I wouldn't say that..

14:42 <Migi32> even though I don't have to pay for it, last time my parents complained about a high electricity bill just a few month after I joined BOINC

14:44 <Migi32> I thought it was correlated, but after this I just think stuff like electrical heaters cost like 10 times more

14:45 <Migi32> so maybe we should be more careful not to turn on the heater and have a door/window open at the same time, that will even out anything boinc will ever consume

14:47 <Migi32> hey, apparently you are right about wild variations of electricity costs

14:47 <Migi32> just look at this: http://boinc.berkeley.edu/wiki/Heat_and_energy_considerations

14:47 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/ylkd557> (at boinc.berkeley.edu)

14:48 <Migi32> about 3x more in Europe!

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15:18 <Migi32> If you know that all numbers smaller than 2,361,183,863,442,119,416,993 agree to the 3x+1 conjecture, does it really make sense to test for even more numbers?

15:19 <Migi32> some projects are so useless...

15:19 <MTughan> So don't crunch for them.

15:19 <Migi32> (I'm going to get kicked here) like SETI

15:20 <Migi32> meh, I don't know what project to crunch for!

15:22 <reflect> elaborate on that one, please.. why would seti be useless?

15:23 <Migi32> because I don't think we have enough data to be looking at it with so many people

15:24 <Tank_Master> I havent ran seta in ages

15:24 <Tank_Master> seti*

15:24 <Migi32> I used to run SETI because it could use my GPU and give me lots of credit

15:24 <MTughan> The telescopes bring in a lot of data.

15:24 <Tank_Master> milkyway and collatz give better credits for your gpu

15:24 <MTughan> I don't crunch for it because I don't know why we're looking for alient life.

15:24 <reflect> Migi32: since I've been running seti for 10 years, let me introduce an alternative thinking to you..

15:25 <Migi32> I may be wrong here, but aren't the telescopes offline for the last few years?

15:25 <Tank_Master> itsback up now, and I think they have a second sorce of data now

15:25 <Migi32> my way of thinking: the more you look the more detailed your search will be, but eventually you will start seeing patterns in pure noise

15:26 <reflect> without the use of volunteers.. especially back then.. they would have had to pay a shitload for the compute powers to analyze the data..  I see it as a way to help furthering mankinds knowledge in that area.. certainly not useless

15:26 <wdsmia> asks reflect to please watch his or her language Thanks, your friendly channel op.

15:26 <reflect> que?

15:26 <Migi32> you said sh!tload

15:27 <reflect> and that's bad?

15:27 <Migi32> it really hurts that op's feelings, you know :)

15:28 <Migi32> anyway, reflect: your alternative way of thinking goes for any project, not just for SETI

15:28 <reflect> well, most

15:28 <reflect> some projects doesn't further mankinds knowledge in that sense

15:29 <Migi32> true, but what are you crunching for right now?

15:29 <reflect> seti

15:29 <Migi32> ah :)

15:29 <MTughan> reflect: The language warning is just an automated script. It just prints out the message, and nothing further.

15:30 <Tank_Master> I am running collatz, ananasi, dynaping, aqua@home, orbit, pirates, freehall

15:31 <MTughan> I'm running WCG and DynaPing.

15:31 <Migi32> I think I'll crunch for rosetta@home because I believe in the science behind it, but their news news would not be exclusively "The minirosetta application has been updated to version x.xx. For details and to report bugs, go to this thread."

15:32 <Migi32> dang, pressed enter while editing in the middle of that sentence

15:32 <Migi32> disregard that

15:32 <Tank_Master> wgc and rosetta are both worthy

15:32 <Migi32> is it blasphemy in this channel to say I'm considering folding@home?

15:32 <Tank_Master> yes

15:33 <Migi32> ok

15:33 <Tank_Master> :P

15:33 <Migi32> then I won't say that :)

15:33 <Migi32> but Tank_Master, why collatz?

15:34 <MTughan> GPU support.

15:34 <MTughan> <Tank_Master> milkyway and collatz give better credits for your gpu

15:34 <reflect> why isn't FAH under the boinc flag, btw?

15:34 <MTughan> reflect: You'll have to ask them.

15:35 <reflect> I so wish opencl would be released so I wouldn't have to scour the projects to see which supports what gfx card :(

15:36 <reflect> (it's an abstraction layer for computing power, like the holy grail when it comes to GPU/CPU computing)

15:37 <Tank_Master> FAH long ago desided to do gpu programing instead of developing apps for BOINC

15:38 <Migi32> but if other BOINC projects use the GPU too, now, that's not a valid reason anymore, right?

15:39 <reflect> does anyone know of any corporations that have modified boinc to run internally and crunch internal computations?

15:39 <Tank_Master> gpu support is still not compleatly supported

15:40 <Tank_Master> ATI isnt even in the stable builds yet

15:40 <Migi32> well, yeah, if it's opensource, it goes slow

15:40 <Tank_Master> but yes, now that BOINC is getting GPU support, F@H doesnt have much reason anymore to not produce apps

15:41 <Tank_Master> the ATI support has gone alone quite rapidly ion the last few months actually

15:41 <Tank_Master> though thats because some with ATI cards got fed up with berkeley and submited their own binaries

15:41 <Tank_Master> most of wich is getting incorperated

15:42 <Tank_Master> thats why the build numbers jumped form 6.6 to 6.10

15:42 <reflect> the ATI support in the FOSS world has increased dramatically since AMD bought ATI, too

15:43 <reflect> so I guess that's a "no" on the using of boinc for internal calculations?

15:44 <Migi32> heh, funky, my headset is not completely plugged and now it behaves like an extreme high-pass filter, though my music is still somewhat recognisable :)

15:45 <Migi32> but on-topic now: I guess boinc, FAH and GIMPS will forever be enemies :)

15:45 <Tank_Master> gimps?

15:45 <Migi32> http://www.mersenne.org/

15:45 <Romulus> Title: GIMPS Home (at www.mersenne.org)

15:46 <Migi32> currently searching big primes, and only recently having received $100K for finding a 10 million digit prime

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15:47 <Migi32> by the way, is there like a sort of page with all the achievements of BOINC, like the decoded message from the enigma@home project etc?

15:47 <PovAddict> there isn't much communication

15:47 <PovAddict> I wonder if BOINC developers even know enigma decoded a message

15:49 * yomshleeshee didn't know that

15:49 <yomshleeshee> though I'm not a dev. project "manager" though

15:50 <yomshleeshee> a site like that *would* be nice

15:50 <PovAddict> BOINC devs @ berkeley would *love* to make a site like that

15:51 <reflect> shouldn't be too hard to fix either, as long as everyone could agree on a few ground rules

15:51 <PovAddict> it'd help them to use as an argument of "distributed computing *does* produce results, so give us more money"

15:51 <yomshleeshee> true

15:51 <PovAddict> the thing is projects don't report such results to them...

15:51 * yomshleeshee will try too...

15:51 <reflect> "put your most significant, verified result on this RSS feed" for instance

15:52 <yomshleeshee> though I'm tiny compared to other projects :-/

15:52 <reflect> so what? :)

15:52 <reflect> if a small project does something exceptionally well, others will follow

15:53 <yomshleeshee> don't know

15:53 <Migi32> yeah, the news in all projects usually goes "this part of our system crashed", "we updated this app to version x" etc

15:53 <Migi32> pretty boring

15:53 <yomshleeshee> yeah, the advantage for me was BOINC provided a free cluster that I wouldn't have at a smaller university

15:53 <Migi32> yomshleeshee, what project is that?

15:53 <reflect> as a user, I'd much rather read about what the project learned or accomplished

15:53 <yomshleeshee> http://maxwell.dhcp.umsl.edu/brats/

15:53 <Romulus> Title: BRaTS@Home (at maxwell.dhcp.umsl.edu)

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15:55 <Migi32> unfortunately also BRaTS has had only 1 news message since july

15:55 <yomshleeshee> yeah, things have been slow for me there

15:56 <yomshleeshee> have had other things taking up my time too much

15:56 <yomshleeshee> though that should change soon

15:56 <Migi32> I know the feeling :)

15:56 <yomshleeshee> work is periodic

15:56 <reflect> will BRaTS be able to make use of OpenCL later on?

15:57 <PovAddict> why does everything have to be ported to GPUs?

15:57 <yomshleeshee> agreed

15:57 <yomshleeshee> I already have lots of hosts that don't see work on CPUs

15:57 <reflect> OpenCL isn't only about GPUs

15:58 <PovAddict> nope, it's also about... CPUs, which are already supported

15:58 <yomshleeshee> true

15:58 <yomshleeshee> @reflect

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15:58 <yomshleeshee> haven't honestly looked into it

15:59 <reflect> then, supporting something like OpenCL can only bring more power to the mix, so I don't see the downside

15:59 <reflect> yomshleeshee: it's pretty new and only in beta so far

15:59 <PovAddict> reflect: his project already has more power than is needed

15:59 <PovAddict> more volunteer hosts than work available

15:59 <yomshleeshee> ah

15:59 <yomshleeshee> precisely

15:59 <reflect> PovAddict: and how would I know that?

16:00 <yomshleeshee> reflect: you wouldn't

16:00 <PovAddict> because he said so a minute ago

16:00 <yomshleeshee> povaddict: true

16:00 <Migi32> but if I could maybe give any tip, it could be to not hold back on a news message because people wouldn't understand it. I love it if something is complete chinese to me, it proves the project is still alive and kicking

16:01 * yomshleeshee isn't holding back because of lack of understand. Simply wasn't anything to report

16:01 <yomshleeshee> but tip taken

16:01 <Migi32> :)

16:01 <yomshleeshee> actually I plan on adding more info to the project page this weekend

16:03 <reflect> hm

16:03 <yomshleeshee> a bit behind in that respect

16:07 <reflect> oh, seems it's not beta anymore

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16:07 <yomshleeshee> reflect: what's not beta?

16:08 <reflect> OpenCL.. seems Apple was the first to provide it in their OS with Mac OS X 10.6

16:08 <yomshleeshee> thought that's what you meant, just checking.

16:08 <Tank_Master> first?

16:08 <Romulus> hmm... first is the science, I thought. Second was to give people an incentive to 'race' eachother, Tank_Master

16:08 <Tank_Master> forget first

16:08 <Romulus> I hear ya, Tank_Master.

16:08 <PovAddict> forget first

16:08 <PovAddict> xD

16:08 <Tank_Master> haha, beat ya to it

16:09 <MTughan> reflect: They were. ATI drivers are coming out with it now, not sure about Nvidia.

16:09 <PovAddict> 6.10.14 coming

16:09 <Tank_Master> linux and windows have had OCL support for quite a while now

16:09 <MTughan> Apple was a big promoter of OpenCL though.

16:09 <MTughan> Tank_Master: How so?

16:09 <MTughan> They've had Open*GL* support for a while, sure.

16:09 <reflect> according to wikipedia, apple were the first to release 1.0

16:09 <Tank_Master> its been in the drivers on windows for it seems a year now

16:09 <reflect> Apple actually started OpenCL

16:10 <MTughan> Tank_Master: Maybe beta versions for testing. First final release wasn't that long ago.

16:10 <Tank_Master> I dunno when nvidia introdiced suport for it, I just bememebr seeing it in the driver feature list a while back

16:13 <reflect> we have 70k computers doing nothing all day, every day..   wish I could make something out of that

16:13 <yomshleeshee> reflect: who's we?

16:13 <reflect> that's not even counting the servers and the HPC clusters

16:13 <reflect> yomshleeshee: just a company.. I'd rather not say, sorry

16:14 <yomshleeshee> reflect: np

16:15 <reflect> that's why I'm very interested to get in touch with anyone who's made use of boinc internally

16:15 <reflect> to see what's possible, and about the possible downsides are

16:17 <Tank_Master> possibly downside - impact on proformace, and bad project apps

16:17 <Tank_Master> there hasnt been any known security threats expolited as of yet

16:17 <Tank_Master> but dosent mean there cant be

16:18 <reflect> I think all computers are dual-core atleast, so if you "just" make use of a single core, I'm not too worried about performance drops

16:18 <Tank_Master> http://www.nvidia.com/object/io_1228825271885.html <- ocl support from nvidia back in dec 08

16:18 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/6g9oow> (at www.nvidia.com)

16:18 <Tank_Master> BOINC does allow limiting computing on one core

16:19 <Tank_Master> ot a % of the cors (like 50%, so a quad core would run on 2 cores)

16:19 <reflect> when I said first, I meant "first to release 1.0 in an OS" and not alphas and betas :)

16:20 <Tank_Master> that was for 1.0

16:20 <Tank_Master> read the article

16:21 <reflect> sure.. different aspect

16:22 <reflect> I was talking OS

16:22 <Tank_Master> then define "in an os"

16:23 <Tank_Master> the drivers that come with win7 have ocl support, does that mean it comes "in the os"?

16:23 <PovAddict> reflect: what do you mean "use boinc internally"?

16:23 <PovAddict> crunch rosetta on your clusters?

16:24 <PovAddict> or make your own internal project to take advantage of your PCs for the company's computing needs?

16:24 <reflect> I guess it would mean an OS that includes it officially with its distribution

16:24 <reflect> PovAddict: the latter

16:24 <PovAddict> debian lets you apt-get install boinc-client

16:25 <reflect> without having contact with the outside at all, preferably

16:25 <reflect> ie, talking to internal servers for block distribution etc

16:25 <Tank_Master> the boinc client attaches via a url, so you can use an internal address

16:26 <Tank_Master> as long as the client has access tot he server, and can resolve its web adress to an ip, it *should* work

16:27 <reflect> yes, I've gathered as much.. but I'd love to hear from someone who's actually done it

16:27 <reflect> just to know about pitfalls and the like

16:28 <reflect> in theory, it sounds like a very nice way to make use of idle CPU/GPU

16:28 <reflect> especially with the settings that BOINC provides

16:29 <reflect> the schedules when to run, if only to run when idle for X minutes, etc

16:29 <reflect> and to discard blocks that hasn't gotten a result by date X.. it's perfect

16:38 <reflect> very OT, but read this one.. http://cern.ch/Peter.Kelemen/talk/2007/kelemen-2007-C5-Silent_Corruptions.pdf

16:38 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/yzocasb> (at cern.ch)

16:39 <reflect> pretty scary for anyone not using ZFS, more or less..

16:39 <reflect> especially for companies using thousands of computers and many, many TB of data

17:02 <Migi32> pff, will one bit really matter?

17:02 <Migi32> one bit per x GB, is it really that important

17:03 <PovAddict> if you don't know what bit it is...

17:03 <reflect> what you fail to understand is that the bits they talk about, is the bits that go undetected

17:03 *** yoyo[RKN] has quit IRC

17:03 <Migi32> ah, bits that pass the test?

17:03 <Migi32> I mean, failed bits that pass the test

17:03 <PovAddict> what test?

17:04 <Migi32> checksum tests

17:04 <PovAddict> well that's the whole point - having checksums is one way to avoid it :)

17:04 <reflect> the bits they talk about are the ones that go undetected by any/all of our current CRC/OS checks

17:04 <PovAddict> good checksums (CRC not one of them)

17:04 <Migi32> ok I get it now

17:05 <reflect> and having a bit here and there go stray, undetected is pretty much devastating to data

17:05 <reflect> especially if you take into consideration that the study did NOT take time into consideration

17:06 <reflect> so hello bit-rot

17:07 <reflect> what about the backups you take, that you rely on so fully? are they proper?

17:07 <reflect> some are, some aren't..

17:07 <reflect> for some companies, this is a 'make or break' thing

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17:26 <wdsmia> &wx 92626

17:26 <Romulus> wdsmia: Temperature: 88.9F / 31.6C | Humidity: -999% | Pressure: in / hPa (Falling) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: SW | Wind Speed: 5.9mph / 9.5km/h ; Tonight - Mostly clear. Lows 59 to 64. Light winds.; Saturday - Mostly sunny. Highs 71 to 76 near the coast to 83 to 88 inland. Light winds.; Saturday Night - Mostly clear in the evening...becoming partly cloudy. Areas of dense fog overnight. (1 more message)

17:26 <wdsmia> &more

17:26 <Romulus> wdsmia: Visibility one quarter mile or less at times overnight. Lows 58 to 63. Light winds.;

17:43 *** CoderForLife has joined #boinc

17:43 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o CoderForLife

17:45 <CoderForLife> xcamel I looked at the llama cams to see if you have snow - doens't look like they've updated the web site since 5/12 - this is probably old news - apologies in advance

17:46 *** ChanServ sets mode: -o CoderForLife

17:46 <PovAddict> 5/12? end of last year?

17:46 <PovAddict> oh, silly date order :)

17:48 <wdsmia> looks like we just had a 3 car pile up in front of my house :\

17:48 <CoderForLife> was it one or more of yours?

17:49 <wdsmia> nope

17:49 <PovAddict> pics or it didn't happen

17:50 <reflect> I thought wdsmia was a bot?

17:51 <CoderForLife> no, but he can turn you into one =)

17:51 <wdsmia> :)

17:51 <PovAddict> he's not a bot

17:51 <PovAddict> but he has a boot he can boot you off with

17:51 <PovAddict> just one 'o' of difference

17:51 <wdsmia> not a bot a bofh

17:52 <reflect> I almost had you ignored due to some.. language thing

17:52 * CoderForLife works to get Quicken up to date before leaving on another business trip tomorrow

17:52 <PovAddict> he has a script on his client

17:52 <wdsmia> then dont use bad language

17:54 <reflect> bad language is quite subjective..  for instance "having a sh!tload of work" isn't something I consider to be "bad language"

17:54 <Tank_Master> hiya CFL

17:54 <wdsmia> and it didnt trigger the filter spelling it that way

17:55 <reflect> no, I spelt it the correct way

17:55 <Tank_Master> it sees "sh!t" and calls you out on it

17:55 * wdsmia pushes Tank_Master into a crevasse

17:55 <Tank_Master> used to do that for "fat" when you typed in "father"

17:55 <Tank_Master> but then agaon, wdsmia might jsut be a language wuss

17:56 <reflect> would it trigger in bastard too?

17:56 <Tank_Master> :P

17:56 <Tank_Master> numnut

17:56 <CoderForLife> heya TM

17:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o wdsmia

17:56 <CoderForLife> and away we go...

17:56 <reflect> I was in a channel where it did, and I was talking about a "bastard model" of a hardware, and was kicked

17:56 <Tank_Master> lol

17:56 <Tank_Master> hf!

17:57 <PovAddict> law/rule enforcement is always subjective

17:57 <PovAddict> and he's the op

17:57 <PovAddict> so there

17:57 <Tank_Master> yeah

17:57 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o CoderForLife

17:57 <CoderForLife> I feel better now

17:57 <reflect> when the law/rule isn't up for discussion is the day I leave

17:57 <PovAddict> but I'd be less nervous if you two got your cop hats off

17:57 * Tank_Master sends hordes of lemmings over CoderForLife

17:58 <CoderForLife> don't test me

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17:58 <Tank_Master> hehe

17:58 <Tank_Master> Rookie_69!

17:58 <CoderForLife> speaking of trouble

17:58 <Tank_Master> sup?

17:58 <Rookie_69> Where???

17:58 <Rookie_69> Is it friday again?

17:58 <Tank_Master> it would seem so

17:59 <CoderForLife> like a bad habit

18:00 <Rookie_69> A nasty nun wears a bad habit...

18:00 <CoderForLife> speaking of habits, did I mention I've dropped 85 pounds?

18:00 <reflect> what about the prude nuns?

18:01 <Rookie_69> A wrinkled whiffle?

18:01 <CoderForLife> and I'm not referring to sterling

18:01 <reflect> CoderForLife: how? and in how long?

18:01 <Rookie_69> No, wait... That would be a Prune nun.

18:01 <Tank_Master> you droped 85 lbs of what?

18:02 <Tank_Master> and did it break?

18:02 <CoderForLife> I learned that your weight is related to how many calories you eat

18:02 <CoderForLife> shh

18:02 <Rookie_69> If I dropped 85 lbs, I'd weigh... 70?

18:02 <CoderForLife> only if you fell out of the boat

18:02 * Tank_Master notes Rookie_69 is 155 lbs

18:02 <CoderForLife> I have more downside potential

18:03 <Rookie_69> Lol.

18:03 <PovAddict> &math convert 85 lb to kg

18:03 <Romulus> PovAddict: 38.55535145

18:04 <Rookie_69> The scale agrees.

18:04 <PovAddict> if anyone has extra weight I still offer to take it

18:05 <CoderForLife> you don't want what I had

18:06 <CoderForLife> bad stuff happens

18:08 <Rookie_69> Does it feel like you're walking on air... or just able to walk now?

18:09 <CoderForLife> It's pretty amazing - just had the treadmill stress test yesterday - I completed the full 7-1/2 minutes, getting up to a speed of 3.5 mph

18:09 <CoderForLife> didn't die

18:10 <Rookie_69> Aparently.

18:10 <CoderForLife> you never know what they mean by "the cloud"

18:11 <PovAddict> "the cloud" recently evaporated quite a bit of data...

18:11 <PovAddict> did you read about Microsoft/Danger/T-Mobile/Sidekick data loss?

18:11 <CoderForLife> I wasn't there - it's not my fault

18:11 <reflect> cloud is so silly..

18:11 <reflect> we're using the "

18:12 <CoderForLife> tell Amazon how silly EC2 is

18:12 <reflect> "xtreme cluster administration toolkit".. aka xCAT

18:12 <reflect> but they renamed it to "extreme cloud administration toolkit

18:12 <reflect> it's only silly in my sense

18:13 <reflect> especially since alot of serious people/organizations have been using "clouds" for 10-15 years now

18:14 <reflect> in that sense, clouds and how they're so hyped, is quit silly

18:14 <reflect> quite

18:15 <CoderForLife> one of the problems for me with EC2 was that they didn't support Windows Server 2008 - it's bigger than the 10GB maximum boot image size supported by EC2

18:16 <CoderForLife> we were considering running MS HPC Server on Ec2

18:17 <PovAddict> and Linux kernel can be made to fit in a floppy...

18:18 <CoderForLife> indeed - MS bloatware and Amazon short-sightedness

18:18 <reflect> the few things I've heard about the MS HPC solutions have been.. to be honest, less than satisfactory, and this has come from real HPC vendors

18:19 <CoderForLife> we are running 768 processors

18:20 <reflect> using how many applications? and what's your utilization rate?

18:20 <CoderForLife> running Milliman MG-ALFA modeling package

18:20 * CoderForLife can't believe we've managed to stray to an on-topic discussion

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18:21 <Rookie_69> Shame on you!

18:21 *** rodrigoflores has left #boinc

18:21 <reflect> horrible, isn't it :)

18:21 <CoderForLife> how's the weather? =)

18:21 <kathryn__> according to forcast fox, we're hving a thunderstorm

18:21 <kathryn__> weird as the sun is shining right now

18:21 <CoderForLife> hey K =)

18:21 *** kathryn__ is now known as KathrynM

18:21 <KathrynM> &wx ulsan

18:21 <Romulus> KathrynM: Temperature: 55°F / 13°C | Humidity: 82% | Pressure: 29.68in / 1005hPa | Conditions: Mostly Cloudy | Wind Direction: West | Wind Speed: 4mph / 6km/h | Updated: 7:00 AM KST; Unknown. High:62 F.; Chance of a Thunderstorm. Low:55 F.; Chance of Rain. High:69 F.; Clear. Low:51 F.; Clear. High:71 F.; Scattered Clouds. Low:57 F.;

18:22 <KathrynM> mostly cloudy...  well, that's closer

18:22 <PovAddict> &wx eze

18:22 <reflect> CoderForLife: what I mean is that for any application to make use of the microsoft way, you need to do some special application.. that works, quite often, very differetnly than your normal application

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18:22 <Romulus> PovAddict: Temperature: 64°F / 18°C | Humidity: 56% | Pressure: 30.06in / 1018hPa | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: North | Wind Speed: 7mph / 11km/h | Updated: 7:00 PM ART; Scattered Clouds. High:73 F.; Partly Cloudy. Low:51 F.; Clear. High:69 F.; Clear. Low:48 F.; Scattered Clouds. High:73 F.; Partly Cloudy. Low:51 F.;

18:23 <reflect> while in linux/unix/bsd/etc you make use if your regular application, with no modifications, you just split your input file (like boinc) and it scales

18:23 <CoderForLife> we are modeling annuity products with special financial riders that affect how much money the company must set aside to meet the guarantees (reserves)

18:24 <CoderForLife> that takes modeling software that we don't want to write

18:24 <CoderForLife> buy vs. build

18:25 <CoderForLife> I architected the HPC strategy last year

18:25 <reflect> we make very little software ourselves

18:25 <reflect> out of 200+ packages, we do 10-20 or so ourselves.. the rest is bought

18:26 <CoderForLife> this year we spent nearly $400,000 on an HP blade center - 3 chassises, fully populated

18:26 <Rookie_69> &wx yaw

18:26 <Romulus> Rookie_69: Temperature: 38.3°F / 3.5°C | Humidity: 94% | Pressure: 29.83in / 1010.0hPa | Conditions: Light Rain | Wind Direction: NE | Wind Speed: 17.3mph / 27.8km/h | Updated: 7:26 PM ADT; Tonight - Periods of rain ending near midnight then cloudy with 60 percent chance of showers. Amount 10 mm(0.4 in). Wind northeast 40 km/h (25 mph) gusting to 60 km/h (37 mph) becoming north 30 km/h (19 mph) (1 more message)

18:26 <Rookie_69> &more

18:26 <Romulus> Rookie_69: gusting to 50 km/h (31 mph) overnight. Low 2C(36F).; Saturday - Cloudy. 60 percent chance of showers late in the day. Wind north 20 km/h (12 mph). High 8C(46F). Saturday night cloudy with 60 percent chance of showers early in the evening then cloudy periods. Wind north 20 km/h (12 mph) becoming light near midnight. Low 3C(37F).; Sunday - Periods of rain. High 9C(48F).;

18:26 <Rookie_69> Brr.

18:29 <reflect> we have some 15 IBM blade centers, plus about twice that in regular "servers" doing calculations

18:30 <reflect> our bladecenters are old, while our servers aren't

18:30 <CoderForLife> The blade center doubled the number of server CPUs in the data center

18:30 <CoderForLife> of course, we've also been virtualizing the heck out of the server farm

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18:33 <CoderForLife> I looked at BOINC and CONDOR last year before recommending HPC for this application

18:33 <reflect> CoderForLife: speaking of doubling, take a quick peek at SGI

18:34 <reflect> if you want CPU density, I think they're the way to go now

18:34 <reflect> 1200+ cores in a single rack

18:34 <CoderForLife> must be Wintel

18:35 <CoderForLife> we are running Nehelems, hyperthreaded

18:36 <reflect> yes.. well..  for shits and giggles, count the number of cores you can get into a single rack, and compare it to SGI :)

18:36 <wdsmia> asks reflect to please watch his or her language Thanks, your friendly channel op.

18:36 <CoderForLife> had to reinforce the data center raised floor, and rent a jack to put the blade centers in the rack

18:36 <CoderForLife> they weighed about 1500 pounds each

18:36 <reflect> the real issue is that they do this, using some 20-30% less power than anyone else

18:39 <CoderForLife> we didn't lack for power, but we're starting to cut into HVAC redundancy

18:39 <CoderForLife> we evaluated outsourcing to IBM and CSC for this application support, but it is too expensive

18:40 <reflect> I can tell you from experience:

18:40 <reflect> they often tell you they have the experience etc

18:41 <reflect> but what you get, is like a castle of incompetency

18:41 <CoderForLife> CSC had one other customer

18:41 <CoderForLife> IBM had a few

18:41 <reflect> if you can in any way influence that decision, please do

18:42 <CoderForLife> I have lots of influence over these decision

18:42 <CoderForLife> s

18:43 <reflect> ok.. if you'd like to hear our experiences over some 8 years or so, you're welcome to contact me

18:43 <CoderForLife> well - Quicken is done - time to start packing in earnest

18:44 <CoderForLife> off to Symposium tomorrow  http://www.gartner.com/technology/symposium/2009/sym19/home.jsp

18:44 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/lmpgns> (at www.gartner.com)

18:44 *** ChanServ sets mode: -o CoderForLife

18:44 <reflect> you may be able to oursource something you don't care about.. like, printers.. that's not very important.. but you can never outsource something important, unless it is to a "partner" that acts as an employee

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18:45 *** wdsmia sets mode: +o CoderForLife

18:45 <CoderForLife> you don't outsource core competencies

18:45 <reflect> some don't :)

18:45 <CoderForLife> that's all for me - goodnight from Cincinnati

18:45 <reflect> anyway, have a nice evening/day

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21:50 <Tank_Master> anyone know what kind of credits one could expect from the ati 5770 or 5750?

21:51 <wdsmia> more than you will never get :P

21:52 <Tank_Master> well, I can affors the $140 for the 5750

21:52 <Tank_Master> but that dont mean it would be worth it

21:53 <wdsmia> take the boinc credit off that card add about $7.50 and you can get a cheap starbucks

21:54 <wdsmia> otherwise your looking at about 70K a day mw

21:59 <Rookie_69> NN.

21:59 *** Rookie_69 has quit IRC

21:59 <wdsmia> &nn

21:59 <Romulus> Live long and crunch!

22:04 <wdsmia> more on a 64 box

22:11 <Tank_Master> gn wdsmia

22:11 <Tank_Master> thx

22:12 <Tank_Master> I think ill get one and turn off my quad... dont really need it comsuming the pwoer if its just a cpu box

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23:04 <zombie67> i just bought a Q9550 for $219

23:05 <zombie67> I was going to get a Q9650, but 0.13ghz for an additional $110 makes no sense

23:05 <zombie67> and I am sure I can make that up with a slight OC

23:09 <zombie67> i get 70k/day from a 4780

23:09 <zombie67> or is that a 4870?

23:14 <MTughan> There's no 4780.

23:16 <zombie67> okay, 4870 then

23:17 <zombie67> http://boincstats.com/stats/host_stats.php?pr=collatzc&st=0&userid=579

23:17 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/yhfujly> (at boincstats.com)

23:18 <zombie67> ever since 2.05 app, I am getting 70k/day per card on collatz

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23:28 *** wdsmia sets mode: -o wdsmia

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23:44 <grenyaris> &whatis platform_list

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