IRC logs of #boinc for Saturday, 2009-11-14

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08:28 <wdsmia> &wx 50319

08:28 <Romulus> wdsmia: Temperature: 46.4F / 8.0C | Humidity: 89% | Pressure: 29.81in / 1009.4hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Overcast | Wind Direction: NNW | Wind Speed: 3.0mph / 4.8km/h ; Today - Cloudy. Isolated light showers in the morning. High in the lower 50s. Northwest wind 10 to 15 mph. Chance of showers 20 percent.; Tonight - Mostly cloudy with a 20 percent chance of rain through midnight...then partly (1 more message)

08:29 <wdsmia> &more

08:29 <Romulus> wdsmia: cloudy after midnight. Colder. Low in the mid 30s. North wind 5 to 10 mph.; Sunday - Partly sunny. A 20 percent chance of rain in the afternoon. High in the upper 40s. Northeast wind 5 to 15 mph.;

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09:18 <wdsmia> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/13/ventblockers/

09:18 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/yzgy4jh> (at www.theregister.co.uk)

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15:58 <JackStorm> &whatis platform_list

15:58 <Romulus> JackStorm: "platform_list" could be http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download_all.php

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16:26 <quail> 'morning all

16:26 <Tank_Master> afternoon

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17:25 <wdsmia> &quiet

17:25 <Romulus> Shhhhh... Day Sleepers

17:27 * Tank_Master slaps Romulus around with 32bit Vista Starter Edition

17:27 <wdsmia> Hmm passed 10M :)

17:28 <efc> ,oo

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17:28 <Tank_Master> 10m?

17:28 <Tank_Master> dont you mean 100m? :P

17:29 <wdsmia> no I started counting after the first 100M

17:29 <Tank_Master> ah

17:29 <Tank_Master> lol

17:30 <Tank_Master> not enough digets in your counter?

17:30 <wdsmia> http://www.boincstats.com/signature/user_100947_project-1.gif

17:30 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/3lpnan> (at www.boincstats.com)

17:31 <Tank_Master> http://www.boincstats.com/signature/user_29090_project-1.gif

17:31 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/yc64och> (at www.boincstats.com)

17:31 <Tank_Master> according to BAM, I should hit 25m around xmas time

17:31 <efc> bout 500k here

17:31 <Tank_Master> you need a GPU

17:32 <efc> couple of 5 year old machines that don't run that much

17:50 <JackStorm> Tank_Master: I could be up there with a GPU, but Einstein@Home is killing at the moment (8 out of 15 are client errors)

17:51 <Tank_Master> then dont run it :P

17:51 <Tank_Master> I thought einstine abandoned their gpu app

17:51 <JackStorm> from the looks of it they abandoned the cpu app too :)

17:52 <Tank_Master> lol

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17:53 <JackStorm> I run SETI, Milkyway, and Einstien here...whats new a hot that needs cycles?

17:54 <Tank_Master> collatz is the only other project besides MW that uses the aTI GPU

17:54 <JackStorm> s/ a / and /

17:54 <Tank_Master> though I thing gpugrid is developing an ati app as well

17:55 <JackStorm> Tank_Master: not just gpu (in my case it would have to be NV, but just over all)

17:55 <Tank_Master> seti, einstine, gpugrid, collatz and lattice are the only projects with CUDA support

17:56 <Tank_Master> the remaining 70 projects or so are all CPU :P

17:56 <Tank_Master> it depends on what you find worthy

17:57 <JackStorm> outside of SETI, anything that needs CPU :)

17:57 <Tank_Master> theres lots that can use CPU

17:57 <Tank_Master> like WCG

17:57 <JackStorm> well now I guess we should say 'Cycles'

17:58 <JackStorm> I'll add that

17:59 <JackStorm> Tank_Master: would not happen to know the project url off the top of your head?

18:00 <Tank_Master> www.worldcomunityrgrid.org I believe

18:02 <JackStorm> figures, offline for now

18:09 <PovAddict> WCG offline?

18:09 <PovAddict> nope, he typed the URL wrong

18:09 <PovAddict> http://www.worldcomunitygrid.org/

18:09 <Romulus> Title: worldcomunitygrid.org (at www.worldcomunitygrid.org)

18:09 <PovAddict> nope not it either lol

18:10 <PovAddict> www.worldcommunitygrid.org

18:11 <JackStorm> yeah http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/, unable to attach

18:12 <JackStorm> Fetching configuration file failed, site off line"

18:13 <PovAddict> works for me

18:14 <JackStorm> direct browser does too

18:14 <JackStorm> hmmm

18:15 <PovAddict> I mean even http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/get_project_config.php works for me

18:15 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/yfdvabr> (at www.worldcommunitygrid.org)

18:15 <JackStorm> yeah me too, but BOINC swears up and down it's offline

18:16 <PovAddict> time to do some repartitioning bbl

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18:17 <Guest71935> hi

18:17 <Tank_Master> hi

18:18 <Guest71935> I have installed boinc first on a dual core amd laptop with ubuntu intrepid where it always made the machine hang immediately

18:18 <Guest71935> now after upgrading to karmic (latest version) it works, but:

18:19 <Guest71935> when I open boinmgr it says disconnected but the workunits are being executed

18:19 <Guest71935> in boincmanager i see no projects, no tasks, ...   - with 'top', however, i can see world community grid tasks being crunched...

18:19 <Guest71935> how can I fix this?

18:21 <Tank_Master> wait for povadit to come back, he is a linux guru

18:22 <Tank_Master> which version of BOIN are you useing?

18:22 <Tank_Master> BOINC*

18:22 <JackStorm> Guest71935: you sure boinc-manager is up to date?

18:22 <JackStorm> Tank_Master: should be 5.4

18:22 <JackStorm> err 6.4

18:22 <Tank_Master> for linux?

18:22 <JackStorm> yes, ubuntu

18:23 <Tank_Master> http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download_all.php

18:23 <JackStorm> yeah, karmic is 6.4.5

18:23 <Romulus> Title: Download BOINC client software (at boinc.berkeley.edu)

18:23 <Tank_Master> thats all I know of, is from that page

18:24 <Guest71935> ok, I'll start it again

18:24 <Guest71935> 6.4.5

18:24 <Guest71935> linux - kubuntu karmic koala

18:24 <Guest71935> boinc-manager version: 6.4.5

18:25 <JackStorm> Guest71935: apt-get remove BOINC, and manually install from the site, I do not know why Ubuntu is out of date on this

18:25 <JackStorm> (granted I know why Debian is, but Ubuntu should not be)

18:26 <Guest71935> under intrepdi it worked only on an intel dual core ubuntu, but not on the amd dual core kubuntu. now, at least it's running already here on my amd dual core with kubuntu now in version karmic

18:26 <Guest71935> ok

18:26 <Tank_Master> lazy good for nuttin coders :P

18:26 <Guest71935> JackStorm: Will manual installation harm my system somehow? and will it also be easily removable in case of emergency?

18:26 <Tank_Master> it should not matter what hardware you are running it on, so long as its x86

18:27 <JackStorm> Guest71935: no and no

18:27 <Guest71935> no? not easily removable??

18:27 <Guest71935> :-(

18:27 <Guest71935> in case it does not work, how do i uninstall it after manual installation?

18:28 <JackStorm> never tried to remove a manual install out side of the package management system for boinc..

18:28 <Guest71935> it won't be able to remove it with adept or synaptic then?

18:28 <JackStorm> no

18:28 <JackStorm> it's not a .deb install

18:29 <Guest71935> hmm, ok

18:29 <Guest71935> well, I will have to figure out then

18:29 <Guest71935> and will I need to re-join the projects?

18:29 <JackStorm> hang on, I'll do it here, give me a few mins

18:30 <Guest71935> I don't want you to change your system just for solving my problems. I'm sure I will find out or ask on #ubuntu  how manually installed software can be removed

18:30 <Guest71935> though they will beat me for not having used their package manager, lol

18:30 <Guest71935> will my settings and projects be saved?

18:31 <JackStorm> rtfm chances are they will tell you to come back here :)

18:31 <JackStorm> I'm about to tell you

18:31 <Guest71935> 'k

18:31 <Guest71935> thx

18:31 <JackStorm> I'm removing the client, not the manager

18:32 <Guest71935> So in package manager I also only remove the boinc-manager, not the client?

18:32 <JackStorm> yeah, client manager and seti are seprate packages

18:33 <Guest71935> seti? am not running seti, only world community grid and einstein and cosmology

18:33 <JackStorm> boinc-seti is a package, so I included it

18:34 <JackStorm> just removed client, told it to save data

18:34 <Guest71935> but it's strange that the boinc isntallation I did on a firends intel laptop with ubuntu worked even on intrepid whereas mine on amd laptop with kubuntu did never do so before now. Both where done with synaptic

18:34 <Guest71935> <JackStorm> just removed client, told it to save data

18:35 <Guest71935> ^^ sudo apt-get remove boinc-client ?

18:35 <Guest71935> and how do i tell him to save the settings?

18:35 <JackStorm> yes

18:35 <JackStorm> and it will prompt you

18:36 <JackStorm> but don't do it yet

18:37 <Guest71935> ok

18:38 <Guest71935> I'll download the installer already. O

18:38 <Guest71935> On http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download_all.php I take the Linux x64 version right?

18:38 <Romulus> Title: Download BOINC client software (at boinc.berkeley.edu)

18:39 <JackStorm> yeah, but it looks like it's a per user install script

18:39 <JackStorm> and not a system installer

18:39 <Guest71935> and there the 6.10.17

18:39 <Guest71935> oh

18:39 <Guest71935> :-(

18:39 <Guest71935> but system wide is preferred here...

18:40 <Guest71935> as there are three persons using this comp

18:41 <JackStorm> yeah, plus it will auto start on boot, with noone logged in

18:43 <Guest71935> so can i make this script do a systemwide install the autostarts on boot?

18:44 <Guest71935> actually the if i only fremove themanager, could i not also only install the manager then, as the client does already start at boot

18:45 <Guest71935> -the

18:45 <JackStorm> I honestly do not know right now, it's a MOTU release

18:46 <Guest71935> ok, i don't _urgently_ need the manager if I can change the settings in a .config file...

18:46 <Guest71935> Is this possible?

18:47 <Guest71935> I need to lower cpu usage as it makes the laptop heat up so much that it simply switches off without even shutting down the system

18:48 <Guest71935> it's currently configured to use 60% if the settings from the first install in ntrepid have not been overwritten. I could access the manager there once the computation had not yet started

18:48 <JackStorm> multi core laptop?

18:48 <Guest71935> yes

18:48 <Guest71935> dual

18:48 <Guest71935> amd turion x2 64

18:50 <JackStorm> had the same issue on one of my servers here, maxed out all 4 cores to 120%....let me find my config file on that server

18:50 <JackStorm> (told it to use 66% of the cpu)

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18:53 <Guest20865> back

18:54 <Guest20865> sorry, laptop overheated

18:54 <Tank_Master> bummer

18:54 <Guest20865> once i still had vista on this laptop, boinc had no problems with it, nor had the laptop probs  with boinc

18:55 <Guest20865> but now, it simply goes for power down - immediately

18:55 <Guest20865> no shutdown

18:56 <JackStorm> yeah timeslicing under linux does not work like it does under windows

18:57 <Guest20865> anything i can do about this?

18:57 <Tank_Master> upgrade to win7 x64?

18:57 <Guest20865> when looking a system monitor the cpu usage is not constsantly high but sinus

18:58 <Guest20865> Tank_Master: I will not use windows ever again, so this is not an option

18:58 <Tank_Master> lol

18:58 <Tank_Master> at least it works... but defelty your choice

18:59 <Guest20865> strange thing: it works flawlessly on my friend's laptop

18:59 <Guest20865> also linux

18:59 <Tank_Master> same boinc version?

19:00 <Guest20865> only two differences were: ubuntu vs kubutnu (both intrepid, and both boinc-installtions via packet-manager so definitely same version) and amd dual core vs intel dual core

19:00 <JackStorm> Guest20865: I can't find where the .deb put the configs, I need to clean install, pull the src debs and see what it going on (and I will, I might ever take over ownership of the deb)

19:01 <JackStorm> Guest20865: my Intel quad dies under the same release, but my dual runs fine :)

19:02 <Guest20865> JackStorm: maybe it's not yet able to handle 4 cores. but my friend and i have the same number of cores...

19:02 <Guest20865> so either it's that boinc doesn't like amd under linux, or it doesn't like kde for some reason

19:04 <Guest20865> JackStorm: do you think, i can prevent the power off by lowering cpu usage of boinc? However, I don't wanna lower it too much, for otherwise it's of no use running boinc, if I never complete a task

19:04 <JackStorm> Guest20865: under linux it should work fine in my case, unless they are using a 1.5 bit numbrer :)

19:04 <Guest20865> who?

19:04 <Guest20865> the kde? amd? boinc?

19:04 <JackStorm> boinc

19:05 <Guest20865> well, that's your realm

19:05 <Guest20865> i don't even know what this is, a 1.5 bit numbrer

19:06 <JackStorm> nor i, I meant 2.5 but still does not exist

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19:08 <JackStorm> yeah 2.5 ... 0:000 1:001 2:010 3:011 4:100...honestly I do not know what to tell you, the ubuntu .deb is far behind the current release

19:09 <JackStorm> I'd have to look in to BOINC more, and see what could be done to update it

19:09 <Guest20865> on my friend's computer i found out that it completes many tasks long before its deadline, but then it requests still many more work units, and some of them are so tall that even when on 24/7 it would not accomplish to finish them all before deadline. Couldn't boinc run some stats for local use on how much time/day the computer is on at all, as not all are servers running 24/7.... and then only request amounts of work according to the

19:09 <Guest20865> average work time per day and the deadlines?  Say it's on 6hs/day so it won't request more than 12 of wu's being due in two day

19:11 <JackStorm> and both systems are on 24/7/366(y/4)+1)

19:11 <JackStorm> ie: always on

19:12 <Guest20865> back on windows when i myself still ran boinc without probs, I rna also climateprediction, and after many weeks I sometimes got a "calculation error" or so. forums recommended to always backup the current state and to reset to some backup of the work unit if such an computation erorr occurs. This worked, so feature request #2 is: have boinc make a backup of all workunits currently working on, maybe once a day

19:17 <Guest20865> JackStorm: what's the name of the config file where i can set the cpu usage? so i can try to find it on my own

19:17 <JackStorm> I'm still trying to dig that up

19:18 <Guest20865> ok

19:18 <Guest20865> if i'm gone, I'm too hot

19:18 <Guest20865> ;-)

19:21 <JackStorm> Guest20865: /var/lib/boinc-client/global_prefs.xml

19:21 <JackStorm> and setting max_cpus to 1 and not 2 should do it for you

19:22 <Guest20865> thx

19:23 <Guest20865> hope, this will be only a temporary fix and soon I can dedicate my two cores to boinc

19:23 <Guest20865> :-)

19:23 <Guest20865> thank you Jack

19:24 <Guest20865> probably most current version of boinc will have already overcome that, so once  you get a systemwide installer for it, i would like to try

19:26 <Guest20865> max_cpus was 16

19:26 <Guest20865> <max_cpus>16</max_cpus>

19:27 <JackStorm> I'm going to look in to the code of BOINC and the deb package, and see what can be done to get it updated, and fixed

19:28 <JackStorm> normal software I know what to do with, but this is a special case

19:28 <Guest20865> are you a boinc dev?

19:28 <JackStorm> no

19:29 <Guest20865> ah

19:29 <JackStorm> nor an Ubuntu dev

19:29 <Tank_Master> RomW is, but he is not on atm

19:29 <Guest20865> is only ubuntu so slow with including new boinc releases or is debian behind as well?

19:29 <JackStorm> just a guy, that slings code :)

19:29 <Guest20865> hehe, ok

19:30 <JackStorm> Guest20865: ohhhh, debian is as far, or worse

19:30 <Guest20865> lol

19:30 <JackStorm> BOINC Ubuntu is a MOTU release

19:30 <JackStorm> (Masters Of The Universe)

19:30 <Guest20865> ok. So my thought of using a debian package instead of an ubuntu one, won't help either

19:31 <Guest20865> who are those MOTU?

19:31 <JackStorm> Ubuntu Core

19:32 <JackStorm> else you mean HeMan, Man At Arms, etc...Later SheRa...

19:33 <Guest20865> superman, spiderman, batman, ...

19:33 <JackStorm> Guest20865: DC, Marvel, DC?

19:34 <Tank_Master> ill brb

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19:42 <Guest20865> JackStorm: If I want to backup all my settings (cpu usage, times to connect to the internet, ... but also the projects I'm attached to, so I need not really remember my password there - I never check the websites anyway) - then would it be sufficient to simply backupt the directory /var/lib/boinc-client ?

19:44 <PovAddict> only the account_*.xml files

19:44 <JackStorm> Guest20865:  what PovAddict  said

19:44 <Guest20865> PovAddict: .ok, that's for the accounts, username and passwords

19:45 <Guest20865> and all local boinc settings? cpu usage, disk usage  is only the global-prefs.xml?

19:47 <PovAddict> global_prefs.xml gets overwritten each time the client connects to a project

19:47 <PovAddict> if you set settings on the project website, you'll get your settings back as soon as you attach to a project

19:47 <Guest20865> I ask this, so in case i bork something, I can really purge it here with all the settings or tweaked settings and then reinstall, and paste the backup in there so i need not to re-join the projects without remebering my password without having to create new accounts...

19:48 <Guest20865> PovAddict: so my local settings for cpu usage will be overwritten??

19:48 <PovAddict> where did you set those local settings?

19:48 <Guest20865> in boinc-manager - once it still worked

19:49 <PovAddict> then they're in global_prefs_override.xml

19:49 <Guest20865> then, when the wu-computation started it froze the entire system back in the days. Nowadays, after os upgrade, client works, but manager does not show any project

19:50 <Guest20865> <PovAddict> then they're in global_prefs_override.xml

19:50 <Guest20865> ^^ so if I need to adjust cpu usage down to only one core, I can do that manually in global_prefs_override.xml?

19:51 <PovAddict> actually, the easiest way is to ensure you don't have any override.xml file, and set it on the project website

19:51 <Guest20865> and if i wanna make a backup of my local client settings, this file is all I need? (apart from the accoun_*.xml files for the accounts, usernames and passwords?

19:51 <Guest20865> ok, I'll see if the pw's are stored in plain text, so I can read/remember them

19:51 <PovAddict> passwords are not stored locally

19:52 <PovAddict> the password is only used when you first attach to the project

19:52 <Guest20865> so i can't access the sites

19:52 <Tank_Master> ?

19:52 <Guest20865> so if i backup the account_*.xml's and copy them over to a fresh and virgin installation npot attached to any project, will that work to make it work?

19:53 <Tank_Master> once attached, it never asks for the PW again

19:53 <PovAddict> client connects to project with email + password, project gives the client your account key, and everything afterwards uses the account key

19:53 <Tank_Master> even when you migrade the folder elsewhere

19:53 <PovAddict> the account.xml file has the account key

19:53 <PovAddict> and no, you can't "remember" that :P

19:53 <Guest20865> ok, then I need account keys + local settings backup

19:53 <MTughan> PovAddict: You can remember it. Most people just choose not to.

19:53 <Guest20865> account_*.xml's + global_prefs_override.xml

19:53 <MTughan> I've memorized a 16-char alphanumeric WPA code to our wireless network.

19:53 <Tank_Master> I just backup the entire boinc folder, its not that big really

19:54 <PovAddict> sure, the people who remember thousands of digits of Pi can too

19:54 <PovAddict> Tank_Master: if it's a *backup*, sure

19:54 <PovAddict> Tank_Master: but you can't move it to a different computer

19:54 <Guest20865> I can't?

19:54 <Guest20865> :-(

19:54 <Tank_Master> on windows you can

19:54 <PovAddict> no you can't

19:54 <Tank_Master> why coudnt you on linux?

19:54 <Tank_Master> I have

19:54 <PovAddict> you will screw up the running workunits

19:54 <Tank_Master> tones of times

19:54 <Tank_Master> w/o loosing any work either

19:54 <Guest20865> i often switch os'es. not computers but os'es

19:55 <PovAddict> you don't lose work

19:55 <Tank_Master> it just startes up where it left off

19:55 <Guest20865> is that a prob?

19:55 <PovAddict> you return invalid results

19:55 <Guest20865> actally not os, but distros

19:55 <Tank_Master> no...

19:55 <PovAddict> how do you know?

19:55 <PovAddict> do you know what "homogeneous redundancy" is?

19:55 <Guest20865> I will want to backup everything but the current work unit if I switch computers

19:55 <Guest20865> simply don't want to re-do all the settings, joinging project, etc

19:55 <PovAddict> Guest20865: you can move the account files anywhere, sure

19:56 <Tank_Master> ive switched between OSs (all windows, and same bit structure) more times than I can remember

19:56 <PovAddict> Guest20865: but you shouldn't move the intermediate state of running workunits to different OS or hardware

19:56 <Tank_Master> even going from XP to vista didnt mess anything up

19:56 <Guest20865> PovAddict: great that's what I want

19:56 <PovAddict> Tank_Master: yeah, switching between Windows versions is unlikely to cause problems

19:56 <Guest20865> backup accounts, not tasks/wu's

19:56 <PovAddict> but suppose there is a project where AMD vs Intel causes slight computation differences

19:56 <Tank_Master> are you refering going from win to linux?

19:57 <PovAddict> so to validate properly, they use HR

19:57 <Tank_Master> ahh, then perhaps

19:57 <PovAddict> so that AMD results are only compared to Intel results

19:57 <Tank_Master> I havnt ran on meny AMD systems

19:57 <Guest20865> PovAddict: but talking of bakcups: if you don't switch computer or os: could you have future boinc versions make backups of large intermediate state work units ?

19:57 <PovAddict> if halfway through the workunit you move it from an Intel machine to an AMD machine, then your final result won't match *either* Intel nor AMD

19:58 <Tank_Master> right

19:58 <Tank_Master> for those few projects

19:58 <Tank_Master> but most projects dont have that issue

19:58 <PovAddict> for my now-defunct project, I dumped intermediate state from memory to disk directly

19:59 <Guest20865> i did backup the intermediate staes ones too, bakc in the days. with a tiny batch script on windows. but it would be nice if boinc took care of this itself

19:59 <PovAddict> I know for a fact that moving a WU from a big-endian to a little-endian CPU (eg. from PowerPC Mac to Intel Mac) would have crashed the WU instantly; but maybe other platform switches would cause problems as well

20:00 <Guest20865> so in case of computation error, which i got a few times after weeks of crunchin climateprediction and before having my script  :-(

20:01 <PovAddict> hmm how big are CPDN states?

20:02 <Guest20865> i don't remember

20:02 <Guest20865> I was mad they were so big, so I detached from project

20:02 <Guest20865> currently not running it any longer

20:02 <PovAddict> actually, I'm a bit more interested about how big a single file can be

20:02 <Guest20865> maybe the got small in the meantime

20:03 <Guest20865> but there were many folks mourning about this, but they said wu's could not be smaller for their simulations as they could not be split and must runn al the years thru

20:03 <PovAddict> yeah

20:04 <PovAddict> there are now new CPDN apps that are smaller (but are doing a different kind of simulation)

20:04 <Guest20865> files were big too. at least the entire folder was big

20:04 <PovAddict> and also some that are bigger (higher precision in simulation)

20:04 <Guest20865> anyway, an automatic backup would be good for anything that calculates more than 24 hours

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21:45 <jasong> anybody here use an RFID system to track stuff?  I need one that a retarded monkey can use, the retarded monkey being my mom. ;)

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