IRC logs of #boinc for Monday, 2010-04-19

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06:21 <wdsmia> &wx 50319

06:21 <Romulus> wdsmia: Weather for Des Moines, IA; Temperature: 43.7°F / 6.5°C | Humidity: 71% | Pressure: 30.16in / 1021.2hPa (Steady) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: WSW | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Today - Partly sunny. High in the upper 60s. Southeast wind near 5 mph; Tonight - Partly cloudy. Low in the mid 40s. South wind near 5 mph; Tuesday - Partly sunny. High in the lower 70s. Southwest wind (1 more message)

06:21 <wdsmia> &more

06:21 <Romulus> wdsmia: near 5 mph

06:28 <hawmps> 'lo

06:28 <wdsmia> mornin

06:29 <GaelicGrime> mornin

06:39 <hawmps> &wx 12020

06:39 <Romulus> hawmps: Weather for Ballston Spa, NY; Temperature: 38.9°F / 3.8°C | Humidity: 92% | Pressure: 29.73in / 1006.7hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Overcast | Wind Direction: NW | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Today - Mostly cloudy this morning...then becoming partly sunny. Highs in the upper 50s. Northwest winds 10 to 15 mph; Tonight - Partly cloudy in the evening...then clearing. Lows in the upper 30s. (1 more message)

06:39 <hawmps> &more

06:39 <Romulus> hawmps: Northwest winds 5 to 10 mph; Tuesday - Mostly sunny. Highs in the mid 60s. Northwest winds 5 to 10 mph

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12:26 <desti> http://www.flightradar24.com/

12:26 <Romulus> Title: Watch Air Traffic - LIVE! - We said cash, not ash! (at www.flightradar24.com)

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14:43 <wetfoot> hello????

14:43 <wetfoot> :D

14:46 <wetfoot> ... :(

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15:06 <wetfoot> hi, can someone tell me if boinc has to use something like globus for the projects created for it

15:06 <wetfoot> ?

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15:06 <Saenger> what's globus?

15:07 <wetfoot> the globus toolkit is used for heavy weight grid applications

15:07 <wetfoot> it has been around since 1996 i think

15:07 <wetfoot> basicly I know boinc is a platform that you can run projects on

15:08 <wetfoot> but am i right in thinking it has it's own security methods or does it use grid computing standards?

15:08 <Saenger> you've got the wrong one here ;)

15:09 <Saenger> i'm just a user

15:09 <wetfoot> lol, no worries

15:09 <Saenger> perhaps yoyo[RKN] knows something

15:09 <wetfoot> seen anybody else alive around here?

15:09 <Saenger> he's a project admin

15:09 <Saenger> and i just "heard" him in another chan

15:09 <wetfoot> for your info "Globus is open source Grid software that addresses the most challenging problems in distributed resource sharing"

15:10 <wetfoot> ok thanks... ill leave this open and see if anyone come by keyboard

15:10 <Saenger> boinc was developed as a kind of extended follow-up from seti@home

15:10 <yoyo[RKN]> what?

15:11 <yoyo[RKN]> boinc has nothing todo with Globus

15:11 <Saenger> just read the lines from nine c'clock on

15:11 <yoyo[RKN]> no Globistoolkit usage in Boinc

15:11 <wetfoot> hey yoyo, so security for boinc comes in what form?

15:12 <hawmps> blue..

15:12 <wdsmia_w> lol

15:12 <yoyo[RKN]> security is a wide range, what do you mean with "security"

15:12 <hawmps> ;-)

15:12 <wetfoot> sorry

15:12 <wetfoot> thinks such as shared key cryptography

15:12 <wetfoot> things

15:13 <yoyo[RKN]> don't understand what you mean

15:13 <wetfoot> I know that boinc achieves auditing through sending out multiple copies of jobs

15:13 <yoyo[RKN]> security against what?

15:13 <wetfoot> does it use checksums?

15:13 <wetfoot> well basicly does it have its own security suite?

15:14 <yoyo[RKN]> it provides some functionality against some things

15:14 <yoyo[RKN]> you have to sa what you mean as "security"

15:14 <wetfoot> with globus, if u set up a grid computing project u utilise the toolkit for authentication, authorisation, encryption and auditing

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15:15 <wetfoot> does boinc have such ability?

15:15 <yoyo[RKN]> sure, user must authenticate themself

15:15 <yoyo[RKN]> apps are signed to be sure they are the right ones

15:16 <hawmps> which is about all that is needed.

15:16 <yoyo[RKN]> you have a quorum to verify validity of results

15:17 <wetfoot> so this is all achieved by boinc?

15:17 <wetfoot> I C

15:17 <yoyo[RKN]> boinc is only the middleware, which provides the mechanisms. It is up to the project to use them or not

15:18 <yoyo[RKN]> a project must not use the quorum

15:18 <wetfoot> so any idea why progects such as GIMPS don't use boinc?

15:18 <yoyo[RKN]> they are older than Boinc

15:19 <yoyo[RKN]> and there is a prime searching Boinc project -> Primegrid

15:19 <wetfoot> "a project must not use the quorum"? I don't understand that statement

15:20 <yoyo[RKN]> Boinc provides the mechanism to send multiple results for the same job to the user and compare all these and if they are equal, the result is a valid one. In Boinc this is called Quorum.

15:20 <wetfoot> so most community projects utilise boinc asside from ones that need node processing algorithms to change over the course of the project?

15:20 <yoyo[RKN]> But there are Boinc Projects, which doesn't do this.

15:21 <wetfoot> oh, I know the quorum principle, did not realise it was optional. I appreciate teh elucidation :P

15:21 <Saenger> the older ones don't use boinc, for new projects it's quite convenient to use a pre-fab middleware

15:22 <Saenger> so you only have to care about the science part

15:23 <wetfoot> so do  work servers query worker nodes through boinc to assess resources for job selection?

15:23 <wetfoot> Actually I get it

15:23 <yoyo[RKN]> no

15:24 <yoyo[RKN]> the boinc server never makes requests to the clients

15:24 <wetfoot> boinc is aware and informs servers upons users decision to pull work

15:24 <yoyo[RKN]> always the clients are requesting work from server, or sending results to the server

15:25 <wetfoot> Ok

15:25 <yoyo[RKN]> client says "give me work for x seconds

15:25 <yoyo[RKN]> and sends to the server its own HW/SW configuration

15:26 <wetfoot> Thank you very much for your patients with explaining

15:26 <yoyo[RKN]> based on this the server decides what to send

15:26 <yoyo[RKN]> np

15:26 <wetfoot> patience* lol

15:27 <wetfoot> I was aware of a lot of this but was reading a document taht confused me a bit

15:27 <wetfoot> :D

15:27 <wetfoot> if you want to get confussed... its here http://serine.umiacs.umd.edu/publications/files/myers_et_al_to_appear.pdf

15:27 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/y552k7n> (at serine.umiacs.umd.edu)

15:27 <wetfoot> thanks for the help guys!

15:28 <yoyo[RKN]> ok

15:43 <Tank_Master> damn, thats a long pdf

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15:45 <wetfoot> interesting?

15:45 <Romulus> Somebody said interesting is when something like that gets done low budget, wetfoot

15:46 <wetfoot> lol

15:46 <Tank_Master> forget interesting

15:46 <Romulus> 10-4!

15:47 <wetfoot> its funny how the text layout moves around from page to page

15:48 <wetfoot> are you guys familiar with globus then?

15:48 <wetfoot> what do you see it as if you are?

15:48 <wetfoot> ..apart from not boinc :p

15:55 <yoyo[RKN]> me ist not familar with globus

15:56 <yoyo[RKN]> but I think globus is much more used if the nodes must communicate to each other

15:56 <yoyo[RKN]> such behaviour isn't possible with Boinc

15:56 <yoyo[RKN]> at least not easy

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16:02 <Tank_Master> wb yoyo[RKN]

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16:02 <Tank_Master> wb yoyo_RKN

16:05 <yoyo_RKN> re

16:17 <PovAddict> wetfoot: globus is almost like a competitor to BOINC :P

16:17 <PovAddict> but I have never used it

16:17 <PovAddict> afaik it's more suitable for in-house stuff (like in the desktop machines of a company, which are managed by the company's IT dept), instead of computers from volunteers around the world

16:18 <PovAddict> but BOINC works just fine for the former too

16:24 <yoyo_RKN> so Tank_Master is here I can go sleeping now ;)

16:24 <yoyo_RKN> bye

16:24 <Tank_Master> gn

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16:28 <wetfoot> Tank master you have any opinion on globus vs boinc?

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16:33 <PovAddict> lol

16:34 <PovAddict> wetfoot: I don't think he knows anything about globus, or even about the server side of boinc

16:41 <wetfoot> ok lol

16:41 <wetfoot> I am writing dissertation for uni and deadline draws near so going a bit mental lol

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16:42 <Saenger> as long as it's only a bit ;)

16:42 <wetfoot> lol

16:42 <wetfoot> so what klind of discussion do u uys have on this channel?

16:43 <wetfoot> what you normally talk about Saenger?

16:43 <PovAddict> weather, politics, sometimes we even have on-topic talk and mention BOINC

16:43 <Saenger> i usually just sit and idle ;)

16:44 <Saenger> most on-topic talk is done in the mailing lists and in the projects fora

16:44 <PovAddict> Saenger: you should play idlerpg

16:44 <Saenger> as you can see, i totally failed today

16:45 <wetfoot> lol

16:46 <Saenger> i'm more talkative in my native language in my team channel   irc://irc.arcor.de/seti.germany

16:46 <wetfoot> what DC projects you involved in?

16:46 <Saenger> but as weel most of the time not "on-topic"

16:46 <wetfoot> lol

16:46 <Saenger> define "involved"

16:47 <Saenger> I crunch for quite some projects: http://de.boincstats.com/stats/boinc_user_graph.php?pr=bo&id=999daca9efac06bffb127a67d9c47f12

16:47 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/3ydjwf> (at de.boincstats.com)

16:47 <wetfoot> lol... which projects do you allow to utilise your cpu and/or gpu to process data?

16:48 <Saenger> as you can see there on the top i translate that page to german

16:48 <Saenger> and i like to get into new projects early, a phenomenon known as ATA

16:48 <Saenger> alpha testers anonymous

16:48 <PovAddict> &learn Saenger's CPID as 999daca9efac06bffb127a67d9c47f12

16:48 <Romulus> PovAddict: The operation succeeded.

16:49 <wetfoot> cool

16:49 <Saenger> what's the use if Romulus knowing my cpid?

16:49 <PovAddict> atm not much

16:49 <PovAddict> just the ability to query it later

16:49 <Saenger> any function connected with it?

16:49 <PovAddict> &cpid Saenger

16:49 <Romulus> PovAddict: "Saenger's CPID" could be 999daca9efac06bffb127a67d9c47f12

16:50 <wetfoot> fancy doing my 6 question and 1 comment survey? :p

16:50 <Saenger> where and how?

16:50 <Saenger> here and now?

16:50 <wetfoot> http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=59644

16:50 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/y2ruelx> (at setiathome.berkeley.edu)

16:51 <wetfoot> ive put it in other places but i saw ur german irc was concerned with seti so i thought i'd show u that one

16:51 <xcamel> Doug?

16:51 <Romulus> I guess Doug is still trying, xcamel

16:51 <Saenger> i don't crunch seti ;)

16:51 <wetfoot> as someone mentions I don't ask for credit card details LOL

16:51 <Saenger> it's just a name

16:51 <wetfoot> it isn't about seti

16:51 <Saenger> i see

16:51 <wetfoot> just DC projects

16:52 <wetfoot> what threatens them and what makes them succeed

16:52 <Saenger> and the question again: define "involved"

16:52 <Saenger> for the first question

16:52 <wetfoot> all for this dissertaton that I hopefully won't fail

16:52 <Saenger> should I post the link to BOINCstats?

16:52 <wetfoot> well that you have in your life lol

16:53 <wetfoot> if you admin, contribute

16:54 <wetfoot> you can put a link if you want, I can't be picky but it would be cool if you put names in box for presentatoin of results

16:54 <wetfoot> I can't be picky though :D

16:54 <wetfoot> I have about 45 responces to that survey

16:55 <wetfoot> I did another with people who wern't specifically known to be using dc projects

16:55 <wetfoot> got 114 responces to that

16:56 <wetfoot> showed most people don't know diddly about DC projects and for the most part would be happy to contribute

16:59 <Saenger> been there, done that ;)

16:59 <wetfoot> thank you sir <tips hat> :p

17:00 <Saenger> where have you posted that? in project fora?

17:00 <Saenger> or in big team fora as well?

17:02 <wetfoot> people are afraid somethings bad is done to their puter LOLs

17:03 <wetfoot> that is common answer

17:04 <wetfoot> how long you been using distributed computing grids?

17:04 <Saenger> 29.10.2004

17:04 <wetfoot> wow

17:04 <Saenger> always boinc, never did any seti-classic

17:04 <wetfoot> what were you doing in 2004?

17:05 <wetfoot> seti was 1999 wasn't it?

17:05 <Saenger> started with seti, soon added cpdn

17:05 <Saenger> i saw seti on a collegues puter and googled it

17:05 <wetfoot> oh lol

17:05 <Saenger> first thing i found was seti-boinc

17:05 <wetfoot> am going mad.. thought u said 1994

17:05 <wetfoot> lol

17:06 <wetfoot> too much work makes wetfoot crazy! :o

17:06 <Saenger> took me a while to realise it was something new

17:06 <PovAddict> my dad told me about a screensaver that analyzed radio signals looking for ET (SETI@Home)

17:06 <wetfoot> cool

17:06 <Saenger> i knew about before, but never really looked for it

17:06 <PovAddict> I searched it and the download page said something like "here's the SETI client, but if you're a new user get BOINC instead, we're moving to that"

17:06 <Saenger> until i saw the screensaver

17:06 <wetfoot> maybe I should have put that as  aquestion in my survey.. what peaked ur interest in DC

17:07 <wetfoot> ProvAddict u fancy doing my survey? :p

17:07 <PovAddict> the next day I was attached to three other projects

17:07 <wetfoot> lol

17:07 <Saenger> and after i sterted posting in the seti forum i became aware of other projects, or of the other project available than and those in the pipeline

17:08 <PovAddict> and the next year I was setting up my own project

17:08 <Saenger> and got my forst monster wu from cpdn soon afterwards ;)

17:09 <wetfoot> I think a lot of people start with seti and migrate onto health/environment orientated ones later

17:09 <Saenger> yup

17:09 <wetfoot> Provaddict what project did you set up?

17:09 <PovAddict> renderfarm@home

17:10 <Saenger> wasn't it some rendering?

17:10 <Saenger> oh yes, that one

17:10 <Saenger> never did that, ot was still while i had a single core athlonXP

17:11 <Saenger> couldn't crunch that much on that machine

17:11 <wetfoot> what happened to that project?

17:11 <PovAddict> project lasted a few months... someone was giving me free hosting and had to withdraw... plus I have a short attention span in general, I lose interest and move to the next cool thing :P

17:11 <wetfoot> I c

17:11 <wetfoot> so.. fancy doing my survey :D????

17:12 <wetfoot> I have to ask prolific project starters like urself :p

17:12 <PovAddict> I guess once I knew about most of the server's workings, it stopped being interesting :P

17:12 <PovAddict> do you have any control over the survey page?

17:12 <wetfoot> did you configure security through boinc?

17:12 <PovAddict> the text areas should be bigger

17:13 <PovAddict> I can only see like three lines

17:13 <Saenger> you should have asked yoyo more, he brought 4 non-boinc projects into boinc

17:13 <wetfoot> cant u drag them bigger or just keep typing?

17:13 <Saenger> you can type more than it looks like

17:14 <wetfoot> can't drag larger?

17:14 <PovAddict> nope

17:14 <wetfoot> I can change the size but I have most of the entries so I think its best to not alter it

17:15 <Saenger> did you post your survey just in projects fora, like the one in seti, or with some teams as well?

17:15 <PovAddict> I'll switch to Firefox, I have an addon that lets me use an external text editor to fill text areas :)

17:15 <Tank_Master> forget Doug

17:15 <Romulus> Okay.

17:17 <wetfoot> I didnt post it with any teams

17:17 <Saenger> you should

17:17 <wetfoot> I only posted on GIMPS, World Community Grid and SETI

17:18 <wetfoot> not sure If i put it anywhere else

17:18 <Saenger> at least the big ones like boinc-uk, seti.usa and the stats sites like free-dc, boincstats, allprojectstats, dc-vault

17:19 <Saenger> look for the big ones here: http://de.boincstats.com/stats/boinc_team_stats.php?pr=bo&st=0

17:19 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/y7qst7t> (at de.boincstats.com)

17:20 <PovAddict> Tank_Master: can you post wetfoot's survey in seti.usa forum?

17:20 <Tank_Master> meh

17:20 <Tank_Master> why would i do this?

17:20 <Saenger> because you can do it ;)

17:21 <Tank_Master> wait, what servey?

17:21 <PovAddict> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/59XJ5QJ

17:21 <Romulus> Title: Views of Members of Distributed Computing Projects Survey (at www.surveymonkey.com)

17:21 <Saenger> i have to leave you now, i clearly here my bed calling, gn8

17:22 <Tank_Master> gn Saenger

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17:22 <wetfoot> lol

17:22 <wetfoot> gn

17:22 <wetfoot> thanks for the chat and your help :D

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17:25 <wdsmia> re-hi

17:27 <wetfoot> hello :)

17:33 <wetfoot> @ProvAddict you have any luck doing my survey?

17:42 <wetfoot> Anyone got any idea why folding@home doesn't use boinc?

17:51 <Tank_Master> they started to port to it many years ago

17:52 <Tank_Master> then desided that working on GPU support would be a better use f their tiem (this was befroe CUDA and CAL, BOIN didnt have any GPU support at all)

17:53 <Tank_Master> but as for now, who know, they just state that they wont.

17:56 * PovAddict thinks cuda and cal are dead-ends

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18:21 <wetfoot> thanks for the info tank

18:23 <wdsmia> I think half those questions could be answered with a simple "DA"

18:29 <wdsmia> at least questions 3,4,and 6 :)

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18:42 <wetfoot> DA?

18:42 <Romulus> I guess DA is David Anderson, wetfoot

18:44 <wetfoot> why DA?

18:45 <wdsmia> lol Rommie got it right

18:47 <wetfoot> lol

18:47 <wetfoot> but I don't get why he is a threat, makes projects fail lol

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18:59 <xcamel> mist be "weird shyt" night

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19:31 <quail> &wx roseworthy ag college

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19:31 <Romulus> quail: Weather for Roseworthy Ag College, SA; Temperature: 65.8°F / 18.8°C | Humidity: 75% | Pressure: 29.38in / 994.8hPa (Steady) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: North | Wind Speed: 6.0mph / 9.7km/h ; Monday - Conditions: Unknown. High: 68°F; Monday Night - Conditions: Chance of Rain. Low: 53°F; Tuesday - Conditions: Partly Cloudy. High: 78°F; Tuesday Night - Conditions: Scattered Clouds. (1 more message)

19:31 <quail> &more

19:31 <Romulus> quail: Low: 55°F; Wednesday - Conditions: Clear. High: 78°F; Wednesday Night - Conditions: Clear. Low: 57°F

19:33 <xcamel> 'lo Q

19:37 <wdsmia> &wx 50319

19:37 <Romulus> wdsmia: Weather for Des Moines, IA; Temperature: 71.5°F / 21.9°C | Humidity: 24% | Pressure: 30.04in / 1017.2hPa (Steady) | Conditions: Mostly Cloudy | Wind Direction: NNW | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Tonight - Partly cloudy. Low in the mid 40s. Southeast wind near 10 mph; Tuesday - Partly sunny. High around 70. South wind near 5 mph shifting to the southwest in the afternoon; Tuesday Night - (1 more message)

19:37 <wdsmia> &more

19:37 <Romulus> wdsmia: Partly cloudy. Low in the mid 40s. West wind near 5 mph

19:38 <quail> hey Jay, how are you?

19:43 <xcamel> good enough..

19:44 <xcamel> 'lo Doug

19:50 <xcamel> pffft~~~

19:57 <xcamel> laterz..

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