IRC logs of #boinc for Saturday, 2010-09-11

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07:10 <TheGasGiant> &weather ymml

07:10 <Romulus> TheGasGiant: Temperature: 48F / 9C | Humidity: 76% | Pressure: 30.12in / 1020hPa (Rising) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: North | Wind Speed: 8mph / 13km/h ; Chance of Rain. High:60 F.; Chance of Rain. Low:44 F.; Chance of Rain. High:60 F.; Chance of Rain. Low:42 F.; Chance of Rain. High:59 F.; Chance of Rain. Low:39 F.;

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07:20 <Jack-The-Ripper> hi

07:20 <Jack-The-Ripper> Boinc client it's supported?

07:26 <TheGasGiant> ho Jack-The-Ripper

07:27 <TheGasGiant> not sure what you mean...

07:27 <Jack-The-Ripper> ok, i have problem on gentoo

07:27 <Jack-The-Ripper> client says disconnect

07:27 <TheGasGiant> ahh...which version of BOINC?

07:28 <TheGasGiant> Manager disconnected from the client?

07:28 <Jack-The-Ripper> 6.10.58

07:28 <Jack-The-Ripper> TheGasGiant: ya

07:30 <TheGasGiant> network connection is OK all the time..i've seen that error when I've had network issues on 'doze...sry don't run *nix

07:30 <Jack-The-Ripper> i have install lxde on my vps

07:31 <Jack-The-Ripper> *installed

07:32 <TheGasGiant> now you've lost me...sry no expert.  Need to try xcamel, wdsmia, quail or PovAddict (I'm sure there's more)

07:33 <quail> TheGasGiant: howdy mate, long time. how are ya bloke?

07:33 <TheGasGiant> pretty good ace!

07:34 <TheGasGiant> you still in SA?

07:34 <quail> TheGasGiant: yep still here

07:35 <TheGasGiant> good to get lot's of rain recently

07:42 <quail> yeah heaps, we got flooded last weekend, the river broke it banks couple times

07:44 <TheGasGiant> bbl..last ep of the prisoner on the tube

07:45 <quail> TheGasGiant: ttyl

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11:55 <CoderForLife> morning

11:55 <PovAddict> morning

11:55 <CoderForLife> taking a lunchtime break from the re-screening process - 3 done this morning

11:55 <CoderForLife> hey PovAddict

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12:54 <RomW> CFL?

12:54 <Romulus> It has been said that CFL is maybe busy doing husbandly chores, RomW

13:09 <PovAddict> lol

13:09 <RomW> yeah

13:09 <RomW> Romulus needs help

13:09 <RomW> lol

13:09 <Romulus> No idea.

13:10 <RomW> Pov, do you know off hand if the std::map implementation of a b-tree is very expensive perf wise relative to a hand gen'ed implementation?

13:12 <PovAddict> well, common sense would say: if you can write your own that is faster, why wouldn't the STL developers write it exactly that way?

13:13 <RomW> Some times you have to scarifice speed for portability or stability around edge cases

13:14 <PovAddict> but there are some issues with the std::map API; for example, if you have a map<string, Project> indexed by master URL, and the Project has its own "std::string master_url", you'd get the URL stored twice

13:14 <PovAddict> if you roll your own, I think you could easily make it directly use the URL stored in the Project as key

13:15 <PovAddict> value_type would be Project instead of std::pair<std::string,Project> (which is what map uses)

13:15 <RomW> Well in that case your mixing two different concepts though, one is the data, the other is the index term

13:16 <RomW> from a generic point of view, the index term may not be part of the data

13:16 <PovAddict> indeed, and that's why the generic std::map doesn't support doing that :P

13:18 <RomW> Anyways, I was thinking of trying to use a dictionary (name/value pairs) for parsing the contents of a Project class for instance

13:18 <RomW> I guess I'll just have to run over the same chunk of data a few thousand times to see what the perf difference is

13:19 <PovAddict> I think MTughan considered that approach for his Objective-C wrapper around the existing GUIRPC API

13:19 <RomW> Any success?

13:21 <PovAddict> I think he didn't get far enough to actually *implement* that, project is kinda abandoned due to that time sink called 'work'

13:21 <RomW> ah

13:26 <RomW> Well, depending on how muhc time I get this weekend, I'll probably be able to let you all know

13:27 <RomW> I have to finish up the unit tests for something I finished last night

13:27 <RomW> then i'll start on the newer parser

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14:56 <MTughan> PovAddict: Time sink called IRC too.

14:57 <RomW> lol

14:57 <MTughan> 'lo Rom

14:58 <RomW> Howdy

14:58 <PovAddict> heh

14:58 <PovAddict> someone on #debian-ar was asking me if I'm a Debian Developer yet, since I'm in all the dev-related IRC channels he knows of

14:59 <PovAddict> "what are you missing? the paperwork? :P"

14:59 <RomW> lol

14:59 <PovAddict> and I answered "packaging something instead of wasting time on IRC"

15:01 <RomW> Be the package maintainer for synecdoche

15:02 <PovAddict> the Debian BOINC Maintainer Team already tried to drag me in, fwiw

15:03 <RomW> oh

15:03 <RomW> lol

15:03 <PovAddict> I've seen a distro or two do pretty stupid stuff with BOINC

15:04 <PovAddict> I saw a package (not sure if it was official) that ran the BOINC daemon on system start *as root*

15:05 <RomW> Wasn't that Redhat awhile back?

15:05 <PovAddict> there was another (or maybe more than one) where gui_rpc_auth.cfg is installed with no read permissions for anyone except the 'boinc' account (where the daemon runs), so by default nobody can use the manager

15:14 <RomW> Welp, I just completed some unit tests for a task instance class, gonna go take a shower and than start on a new parser

15:14 <RomW> fun fun fun

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16:32 <CoderForLife> hey RomW

16:32 <RomW> Howdy

16:32 <CoderForLife> jusy came in from doing husbandly chores =)

16:32 <RomW> lol

16:32 <CoderForLife> er just

16:32 <CoderForLife> replacing window screens

16:32 <RomW> fun fun

16:32 <CoderForLife> of the non-MS variety

16:32 <RomW> lol

16:33 <CoderForLife> house instantiations

16:34 <RomW> Well, I was trying to bug you abouit the whole perf difference between std::map and hand-genned b-trees

16:34 <RomW> but I figured I would just write some code and time it

16:34 <RomW> over 100 iteractions and see what happens

16:34 <CoderForLife> oh, gee, dunno if I've developed an opinion on that one =)

16:35 <yoyo[RKN]> &wx sxf

16:35 <Romulus> yoyo[RKN]: Temperature: 59F / 15C | Humidity: 82% | Pressure: 30.15in / 1021hPa (Steady) | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: SE | Wind Speed: 4mph / 6km/h ; Clear. High:69 F.; Clear. Low:53 F.; Clear. High:75 F.; Partly Cloudy. Low:55 F.; Partly Cloudy. High:69 F.; Chance of Rain. Low:51 F.;

16:36 <RomW> Well, I'm just going to compare the differences between the stock BOINC xml psrser and my std::map'ed one

16:36 <RomW> figure if I need to go faster I better figure out a new solution

16:36 <PovAddict> ##c++ may know about the std::map perf

16:36 <CoderForLife> being an old "algorithms + data structures = programs" kind of guy, I'd tend to lean against b-trees

16:36 <PovAddict> if you have patience for the bad attitude they may have sometimes :P

16:36 <RomW> lol

16:37 <CoderForLife> is RomWorld your site?

16:37 <RomW> b-trees are just another algorithm

16:37 <RomW> yeah

16:37 <RomW> Haven't done muhc blogging though

16:38 <CoderForLife> cool - you were born the year I graduated from high school =)

16:38 <RomW> lol

16:38 <PovAddict> CoderForLife: so he's about in the middle between you and me?

16:39 <CoderForLife> seems so =)

16:40 <CoderForLife> I remember hearing about S@H long before it came out - seems like I was waiting for Rom to be born =), and Pov to come along and explain BOINC to me  =)

16:40 <RomW> roflmao

16:40 <CoderForLife> ah - the dinner bell has rung - bbl

16:40 <PovAddict> when I heard of S@H, they had already gone BOINC

16:40 <CoderForLife> I was running it preBOINC

16:40 <CoderForLife> after waiting about 4 years for it to get written

16:41 <CoderForLife> din-din-4-don

16:42 <RomW> S@H wasn't a smooth rollout for the BOINC conversion

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16:44 <RomW> Oh well, live and learn

16:45 <PovAddict> I think this is what I saw

16:45 <Romulus> <> (at

16:46 <RomW> lol

16:47 <yoyo[RKN]> I have a running perl script. What happens if I change the source?

16:47 <PovAddict> nothing until you restart the script

16:48 <yoyo[RKN]> shell script do not like such changes during runtime

16:48 <PovAddict> most text editors don't overwrite the file, they delete the file and write a new one

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16:56 <yoyo[RKN]> and if I just copy the new one over the old one?

16:57 <PovAddict> I think Perl loads the whole script into memory, parses it, and then doesn't touch the file again

16:58 <PovAddict> (unless the Perl code actually tries to read its own source file, of course)

16:58 <yoyo[RKN]> ^^ that is not the case in my code

17:03 <CoderForLife> correct, PovAddict

17:03 <PovAddict> I also think DOS/Windows .bat files are the only ones that don't behave like that :P

17:04 <CoderForLife> 2 for 2

17:05 <RomW> lol, programmers did a lot of cheating back when 640k was a real problem...

17:05 <RomW> lol

17:05 <yoyo[RKN]> and shell scripts

17:08 <PovAddict> RomW: I'm not saying it's wrong, I understand why DOS worked that way

17:09 <PovAddict> I'm just saying nobody parses scripts like that anymore :P

17:09 <RomW> I don't know what sh's excuse was, but on old DOS machines the command processor was unloaded from memory when applications were launched and so the batch file and command processor had to be reloaded after the application exited.

17:09 <RomW> lol

17:09 <RomW> true

17:10 <PovAddict> especially for something like Perl, which would definitely build an in-memory AST or maybe even compile into bytecode, and execute that, not read from source code while it runs

17:11 <RomW> It was just a carry over from CPM

17:12 <PovAddict> actually it could be argued that POV-Ray code is executed similarly to DOS batch scripts, but rendering the image is outside "execution" of the script, so..

17:15 <PovAddict> it doesn't even have a separate first pass to tokenize the script

17:16 <PovAddict> inside a #while loop, once it reaches the end it will fseek() the source file back to the beginning of the loop and continue parsing :/

17:16 <RomW> hmmmm

17:16 <RomW> I don't know anything about POV-Ray

17:17 <PovAddict> the language started as purely declarative, then it got some actual programming language features bolted in

17:18 <Jack-The-Ripper> oh, i have 1 account and 2 pcon 2 pc can't download files (cosmology@home)

17:21 <PovAddict> ugh, my system is swapping like crazy

17:21 <RomW> more RAM

17:21 <RomW> lol

17:21 <PovAddict> ah, it's *un*swapping

17:22 <PovAddict> I have like 800MB free RAM

17:22 <RomW> @Jack, is cosmology even up?

17:22 <PovAddict> probably because I closed a web browser that was eating that much

17:22 <Jack-The-Ripper> RomW: ya

17:22 <PovAddict> I have another 800MB in swap :/

17:22 <PovAddict> RomW: server_status.php seems to show it is

17:22 <Jack-The-Ripper> i have 256 mb ram and 2 GB swap on server

17:23 <PovAddict> heh, I have 2GB RAM and easily run out of it :P

17:23 <Jack-The-Ripper> PovAddict: i run it on 2 pc's

17:23 <PovAddict> one works, the other doesn't?

17:24 <Jack-The-Ripper> yes

17:24 <PovAddict> do you get any specific error?

17:26 <TheGasGiant> firewall?

17:26 <Romulus> firewall is turned off, TheGasGiant

17:26 <PovAddict> they didn't ask you, Romulus

17:49 <Jack-The-Ripper>

17:50 <PovAddict> looks quite self-explanatory :P

17:51 <PovAddict> only solution is to buy more RAM or contribute to a different project

17:52 <TheGasGiant> or change preferences

17:52 <PovAddict> TheGasGiant: no prefs will make a 476MB task run decently with 256MB of physical RAM

17:53 <TheGasGiant> my read of it is that preferences are only allowing 222mb of ram to be used by boinc

17:54 <PovAddict> Memory: 247.39 MB physical, 2.37 GB virtual

17:54 <TheGasGiant> ahh yes..I didn't look at the first few lines

17:54 <PovAddict> prefs limit to using 222MB of those 247MB, but changing prefs to use all 100% still won't give enough

17:55 <TheGasGiant> quite correct

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19:22 <CoderForLife> as opposed to sort of correct, TheGasGiant?

19:22 <CoderForLife> hello Paul

19:23 <CoderForLife> all done with the new fiberglass window screens

19:23 <CoderForLife> in for the evening

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19:31 <CoderForLife> off 4 2 nite - cya all back here

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