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20:41 <paul_l> what do you people do in here?
20:46 <paul_l> been idling for a day and nothing
20:46 <paul_l> yes, I boinc, have a farm with gpu's etc.
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20:53 <Tank_Master> !wx hio
20:53 <Tank_Master> &wx hio
20:53 <Romulus> Tank_Master: Temperature: 76°F / 24°C | Humidity: 46% | Pressure: 30.09in / 1019hPa (Falling) | Conditions: Partly Cloudy | Wind Direction: North | Wind Speed: 0mph / 0km/h ; Sunday - Mostly cloudy in the morning, then partly cloudy. High of 79F. Winds less than 5 mph.; Sunday Night - Mostly cloudy in the evening, then partly cloudy. Low of 52F. Winds less than 5 mph.; Monday - Mostly cloudy. High of (1 more message)
20:53 <Tank_Master> &more
20:53 <Romulus> Tank_Master: 75F. Winds from the NNW at 5 to 10 mph.;
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20:54 * Tank_Master pushes xcamel into a crevasse
20:56 <paul_l> Romulus, what do these people do in here?
20:56 <Romulus> Bugger all, I dunno.
20:56 <paul_l> me either
20:56 <BadBarbarian> now thats funny
20:57 <Tank_Master> sometimes bots just nail it
21:37 <RomW> :)
21:38 <RomW> I've been working on next gen UI perf inprovments
21:38 <RomW> improvements
21:53 <paul_l> Rom Walton?
21:59 <paul_l> I'll be darn...
21:59 <RomW> Yeah
21:59 <RomW> :)
21:59 <RomW> I show up every once and a great while
22:01 <paul_l> a pleasure to meet you. Been using your work since the beginning.
22:02 <RomW> Please to meet you as well
22:02 <RomW> Hmmm, actually, I think there are those in IRC that predate even me...
22:03 <RomW> :)
22:06 <paul_l> good thing we age well in IRC..
22:06 <RomW> lol
22:08 <paul_l> man, I remember beinng one of the handful of people on a large team to beta test the original BOINC, something like .1x
22:09 <RomW> Chuckle, IIRC, BOINC had a very long Beta test cycle
22:19 <RomW> @paul, How far back was that? 03? 04?
22:21 <paul_l> I'd be lying if I said, used to keep all the boinc versions I used on a data drive, but I accidently wiped it a while back
22:22 <RomW> :)
22:22 <RomW> It happens
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22:23 <RomW> Well, I don't think I started with the project until the open beta was announced
22:23 <RomW> Which was at the end of 03
22:40 <paul_l> just tried to search some really old forum posts for a date, got a headache
22:42 <RomW> no worries
22:42 <RomW> Things went crazy during the initial S@H launch
22:42 <RomW> some things were retired
22:43 <RomW> They may not even be publically available anymore
22:44 <efc> there were a lot of tools that worked with the old architecture, the original circa '99 client
22:45 <paul_l> oh yeah was just looking at posts about SetISpy, SetiDriver
22:45 <paul_l> fun times
22:46 <efc> some of the management tools still work. think i have one of those.
22:46 <efc> BOINCView. Still works.
22:47 <PovAddict> the new generation is busy making iPhone apps and Facebook games
22:48 <efc> i get the impression that BOINC is harder to deal with, too.
22:48 <efc> at any rate it took away or made unnecessary some of the options those tools used
22:48 <PovAddict> I have no idea about the old SETI client, so I dunno
22:49 <efc> Queue management being a big one
22:49 <PovAddict> did the classic client have a queue at all? :)
22:51 <efc> i can't remember. I do remember groups grabbing large numbers of WUs, and keeping the results, then dumping them en masse
22:51 <efc> it wasn't the most helpful thing for the network..
22:51 <RomW> Nope, SETI Classic didn't have a queue
22:52 <RomW> That was one of the big design changes BOINC introduced
22:52 <paul_l> SetiQue was one were you could grab a bunch and host your own queue
22:53 <RomW> Yeah, there were addons to do that... Some of the addons let you cherry pick workunits too
22:53 <efc> yeah, i remember there were "sweet" WUs
22:53 <efc> certain slew angles or something
22:54 <RomW> yeah
22:54 <efc> the queue deal was, the servers were unreliable, so teams would grab mass quantities so they'd have work, which tended to perpetuate the problems
22:55 <RomW> IIRC, somebody had written a fancy queue management tool that you could use to process a wu to 98% complete and then re-farm out to all of your machines to complete the last 2% to increase wu counts
22:57 <PovAddict> omg
22:57 <PovAddict> that's blatant cheating
22:57 <RomW> lol
22:57 <PovAddict> hmm
22:57 <paul_l> oh yeah, then y'all caught a bunch of them and outed their accounts
22:58 <RomW> Well, S@H classic didn't have any of the safegards that are in place for BOINC
22:58 <PovAddict> I wonder how much time on the K Computer would equate to a year of SETI@Home volunteers
22:59 <PovAddict> wow
23:00 <PovAddict> apparently 1 year of the SETI@Home grid (769 TFLOPS as of Nov 2009, according to Wikipedia) is equivalent to 34 days on the K computer
23:01 <RomW> IIRC that task assignment mechinism was just the client during a 'dir' on a certain web server and randomly choosing a wu to process
23:02 <RomW> every 30 minutes or so a background daemon would change out the files
23:02 <PovAddict> 17 days on the IBM Sequoia, damn
23:02 <RomW> Chickle
23:03 <RomW> Chuckle, add in the recent numbers, with GPUs
23:03 <RomW> nevermind
23:03 <RomW> its gone down
23:04 <PovAddict> where can I see the project's FLOPS?
23:04 <Romulus> Title: BOINCstats/BAM! | SETI@Home - Detailed stats (at boincstats.com)
23:05 <PovAddict> so a S@H-year is 13.3 days on the Sequoia
23:05 <PovAddict> and the Sequoia will be primarily used for nuclear weapon simulation
23:06 <RomW> willy is da man when it comes to BOINC stats
23:06 <PovAddict> I think I'll go cry myself to sleep
23:06 <efc> I sort of wonder if the s@h endeavor makes sense now; if the same money went into a cluster, would it be faster..
23:07 <efc> We could piece together some of ILLIAC IV and set it to work.
23:07 <PovAddict> efc: how much of a cluster can you make with $100k?
23:08 <efc> 150 GPUs maybe? And your software is a lot simpler
23:09 <efc> Don't have to do all the work 3 times to find cheaters
23:09 <RomW> I'm not sure S@H uses the 3 times rules anymore
23:09 <PovAddict> afaik it's 2x now
23:10 <RomW> I think they turned on adaptive replication
23:10 <PovAddict> initial_replication = min_quorum = 2
23:10 <RomW> ah
23:10 <RomW> okay, so maybe not
23:11 <PovAddict> no, maybe they do
23:11 <PovAddict> maybe they go for 3x if one of the clients is untrusted
23:12 <PovAddict> efc: how much money would you need to make a 700 tflops cluster? :)
23:12 <RomW> Oooo BOINC is floating around 6 PetaFLOPS as a whole
23:13 <PovAddict> well I only care about the order of magnitude of those numbers...
23:13 <PovAddict> they're based on credits, I see big reasons for them to be BS :)
23:13 <efc> I dunno. Also dunno how much money really goes into s@h (maybe 100k of cash, but they get some equipment donations)
23:13 <PovAddict> efc: S@H's budget is 400k
23:14 <efc> For projects not so floating point bound, i think FPGAs could really do great
23:14 <RomW> Somebody has started to work on that
23:14 <PovAddict> indeed
23:15 <efc> i did some work on one, but gave up, also after the GPU s@h came out it wasn't such a win
23:15 <RomW> I would like to see how we are going to handle benchmarks on one of those things
23:15 <RomW> lol
23:15 <PovAddict> efc: you spent most of the time looking at how the existing app worked
23:15 <efc> yeah
23:15 <PovAddict> efc: I think you should write documentation for it
23:16 <PovAddict> you don't get to make a FPGA app but at least something useful to the project comes out of your efforts :)
23:17 <efc> i wonder how that would work. I spent a lot of time on similar documentation for another open source project, and it was like pulling teeth to get them to take it.
23:17 <RomW> Wiki
23:17 <RomW> :)
23:17 <PovAddict> depends on the project...
23:17 <RomW> You want create page access to the wiki?
23:18 <RomW> oh wait
23:18 <efc> the s@h code would be pretty decent if they would just label variables with units
23:18 <RomW> I can't do anything about S@H
23:18 <PovAddict> a few months ago, I wondered how the multiple servers behind anongit.kde.org worked, and how they synced from git.kde.org
23:18 <RomW> lol
23:18 <PovAddict> so I read some scripts, asked some questions to the KDE sysadmins
23:19 <PovAddict> I somehow ended up writing 700 words :P
23:21 <efc> i should start getting my findings on various stuff on the web somehow. I figure out many things and am just to lazy to post it.
23:22 <PovAddict> another admin said it was "the best documentation he had seen in a while"... and then people wonder why I spend time on free software instead of, say, studying for exams
23:23 <efc> as I read once.. Documentation is like sex, even when it is bad, it is better than nothing.
23:24 <RomW> roflmao
23:25 <RomW> Depends on what is being documented
23:25 <RomW> If the documentation is on a function, and how the function works has totally changed, then that is worse than not having any documentation
23:27 <efc> yeah, hence I think the best place for docs is in the source. Anything else is always out of date.
23:27 <RomW> :)
23:27 <PovAddict> I have ideas for a documentation markup format with embedded 'unit tests'... I have yet to write anything though
23:28 <efc> We have that problem at work. Its the kind of place that produces multi-hundred page design and requirements documents. Ugh.
23:28 <RomW> oooo
23:29 <RomW> speaking of which, I need to run doxy against some source
23:29 <PovAddict> Click on Attach Ptoject <% assert mgr.menubar.hasItem("Attach Project") %>
23:31 <PovAddict> if the menu item changes, you'd be told of the documentation assert failures, which ideally would point you to everything you have to update to match
23:40 <PovAddict> unfortunately it's not very high in my todo/ideas list (which is long enough for a lifetime already)
23:42 <efc> Testing/Docs, not very much fun.
23:42 <PovAddict> efc: what units does the S@h code use? time, frequency and power shouldn't be that much of a mess...
23:43 <efc> Yes, those would be nice. power is in dBm? who knows.
23:44 <efc> Also, intermediate quantities are hard to figure out. They tend to be in funky unit combinations.
23:44 <PovAddict> I saw a C++ library for units, supporting all base SI units and all possible combinations of them (some of them with defined names)
23:49 <PovAddict> the base class is a template taking seven parameters (the exponents of each base unit)
23:51 <RomW> @Pov, Have you ever stumbled across an XML parser that uses static hash maps before?
23:57 <PovAddict> meaning a hash map that isn't generated at runtime from dynamic data?
23:57 <PovAddict> I think I have seen it for other kinds of parsers
23:57 <RomW> Well, the name/value pairs are already known and generated
23:58 <RomW> Talk about some huge gains
23:58 <RomW> wow