IRC logs of #boinc for Wednesday, 2013-02-13

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01:18 <dddh> http://www.gpugrid.net/forum_thread.php?id=3199&nowrap=true#27669

01:18 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/a6j5yvj> (at www.gpugrid.net)

01:18 <dddh> "Boinc reports each individual GPU. A GTX690 has two GPU's so Boinc reports two GTX690's! It's doesn't report the card count, just the GPU count, and it has to call it something, so GTX690 it is. Boinc also reports the first (or biggest/most powerful GPU) and then the number of GPU's. So if you have a GTX680 in there, it will report it as another GTX690."

01:20 <Tank_Master> right

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01:35 * dddh plans to add one more GPU

01:37 <dddh> GTX690 is ~$900

01:37 <Tank_Master> 780 and geforce titan will be out by end of the month

01:37 <dddh> oh

01:39 <Tank_Master> nvidia will be releasing new cards just before the PS4 release

01:43 <dddh> do you recommend 790 or titan?

01:45 <dddh> ordering intel 520 SSDs

01:45 <Tank_Master> 790 wont be out till sept

01:48 <Tank_Master> but apparently the geforce titan will perform about the same as a 690 as a single gpu, but consume only around 250w max

02:01 <dddh> 790 is almost tesla k20?

02:04 <Tank_Master> its a new design

02:04 <Tank_Master> k114? i dont remember

02:07 <Tank_Master> 2,680 stream processors

03:05 <dddh> and you think titan > 690?

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06:50 <hawmps> &wx 12020

06:50 <Romulus> hawmps: Temperature: 31.3F / -0.4C | Humidity: 82% | Pressure: 29.90in / 1012hPa (Falling) | Conditions: Light Snow | Wind Direction: West | Wind Speed: 3.0mph / 4.8km/h ; Wednesday - Partly cloudy. High of 39F. Winds from the WSW at 5 to 10 mph.; Wednesday Night - Partly cloudy. Low of 23F. Winds less than 5 mph.; Thursday - Partly cloudy. High of 43F. Winds from the WSW at 5 to 10 mph. Chance of (1 more message)

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15:48 <AlbinoGeek> No config file found - using defaults

15:48 <RomW> And it should spew a bunch of stuff to the console

15:48 <PovAddict> won't that use the program files dir as data dir?

15:48 <AlbinoGeek> 13-Feb-2013 12:48:08 [---] No config file found - using defaults Another instance of BOINC is running. GLE: Another instance of BOINC is running. GLE: Another instance

15:48 <RomW> It shouldn't on Windows

15:48 <AlbinoGeek> And yes, literally ends on "another instance"

15:49 <AlbinoGeek> The instance boincmgr tried to start is still running, want me to sigterm that one first?

15:49 <RomW> I have the Windows environment setup to assume only one core client can run on the machine at the same time

15:49 <Tank_Master> did you unisntall the wgc manager?

15:49 <AlbinoGeek> Tank_Master: yes.

15:49 <AlbinoGeek> Here, sigterm'ing the existing boinc.exe

15:50 <RomW> And its data directory is specified via HKLM\Software\Space Sciences Laboratory\BOINC Setup\DATADIR

15:50 <AlbinoGeek> And when run from CMD I do see the output as expected, up to the timezone.

15:50 <xcamel> &wx 12074

15:50 <Romulus> xcamel: Temperature: 38.0F / 3.3C | Humidity: 51% | Pressure: 29.80in / 1009hPa (Falling) | Conditions: Scattered Clouds | Wind Direction: SW | Wind Speed: 0.0mph / 0.0km/h ; Wednesday - Partly cloudy. High of 36F. Winds from the WSW at 5 to 10 mph.; Wednesday Night - Mostly cloudy. Low of 21F. Winds less than 5 mph.; Thursday - Partly cloudy. High of 39F. Winds from the WNW at 5 to 10 mph shifting (1 more message)

15:50 <AlbinoGeek> Output stops at 13-Feb-2013 12:50:05 [---] Local time is UTC -8 hours

15:51 <RomW> One of the first things boinc.exe does is change to the data directory

15:52 <RomW> Do you have any GPUs on your computer?

15:52 <RomW> If so, what kind?

15:52 <RomW> Can you check the process list and make sure all BOINC processes are killed

15:53 <RomW> We have had boinc.exe hang before in GPU enumeration code inside AMD/Nvidia/Intel code before

15:53 <AlbinoGeek> RomW: I killed all boinc processes before running boinc.exe this time, in which it gave me this output: http://pastie.org/private/bherxcd7eqe5cbebginra and is still running.

15:53 <Romulus> Title: Private Paste - Pastie (at pastie.org)

15:54 <AlbinoGeek> RomW: As per GPU this machine has access to, http://pastie.org/private/glaypjs51vzxlf3gtyuma

15:54 <RomW> Holy Crap, 96 virtualized processors

15:54 <Romulus> Title: Private Paste - Pastie (at pastie.org)

15:55 <AlbinoGeek> RomW: Don't get to excited, it's only 2 CPUs each with 12 cores (24 threads)  (2x24=48).  Windows mis-reports the CPU.

15:55 <PovAddict> RomW: yeah, he said 2 CPUs with 12 physical cores each

15:55 <RomW> Xeon's?

15:55 <AlbinoGeek> RomW: Yup.

15:55 <RomW> Nice

15:55 <RomW> Scary, but nice

15:56 <AlbinoGeek> Meh, 48x4GHZ isn't many GT/s or TFlops

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15:56 <RomW> What CPU count does task manager return?

15:56 <AlbinoGeek> RomW: Task Manger is a write-off.

15:56 <RomW> We should be reporting the same number

15:56 <PovAddict> well, he's blaming Windows, not BOINC :)

15:56 <AlbinoGeek> Winblows Task Manager has only ever seen 4.

15:57 <AlbinoGeek> 4 total.  No physical/virtual differential, just 4 bars.

15:57 <PovAddict> AlbinoGeek: http://blogs.technet.com/blogfiles/windowsserver/WindowsLiveWriter/WindowsServer2008R2Xeon7500LightningFast_BE51/CoresTaskManager_2.jpg

15:57 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/yefxkmf> (at blogs.technet.com)

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15:58 <AlbinoGeek> PovAddict: I wish, my winblows is terribad.

15:58 <AlbinoGeek> Damn, 64 cores.

15:58 <AlbinoGeek> I need one of those.

16:00 <RomW> If you type 'set' in the command prompt

16:00 <RomW> What value is returned by NUMBER_OF_PROCESSORS?

16:00 <AlbinoGeek> RomW: Pasting...

16:01 <PovAddict> AlbinoGeek: http://www.geeks3d.com/public/jegx/200901/task-mgr-displays-256-cores-big.jpg

16:01 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/bn7ut6s> (at www.geeks3d.com)

16:02 <AlbinoGeek> Okay, nothing sensitive.  http://pastie.org/private/2ecpohsduqhmoxvdlairfq

16:02 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/arjb74d> (at pastie.org)

16:02 <RomW> Okay, so Windows is telling us that you have 96 processors

16:02 <RomW> :)

16:03 <AlbinoGeek> As I said, winblows

16:06 <RomW> What model number of Xoen?

16:06 <RomW> Xeon

16:10 <RomW> Could you create a cc_config.xml file in c:\ProgramData\BOINC with the following contents:

16:11 <RomW> <cc_config>

16:11 <RomW> <options>

16:11 <RomW> <no_gpus>1</nogpus>

16:11 <RomW> </options>

16:11 <RomW> </cc_config>

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16:12 <RomW> That should disable GPU detection and allow the client to proceed

16:12 <RomW> past the time zone

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16:12 <RomW> Ops, the no gpus line should read: <no_gpus>1</no_gpus>

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16:13 <AlbinoGeek> RomW: Sorry, back.  Creating config file...

16:14 <AlbinoGeek> RomW: http://i.imgur.com/K31HI2E.png  Saved, should I start boincmgr now or boinc manually?

16:15 <PovAddict> underscore missing

16:15 <AlbinoGeek> PovAddict: Oh, derp. . Fixing

16:15 <AlbinoGeek> Was wondering why the brace didn't hit -_-

16:15 <AlbinoGeek> I hate XML

16:16 <AlbinoGeek> Alright anywho, fixed and saved.

16:16 <AlbinoGeek> boinc.exe isn's stalling anymore.

16:16 <AlbinoGeek> Goes on to say init complete and all that.

16:16 <xcamel> I guess I need a new UPS...

16:17 <AlbinoGeek> So, I guess we know what the issue is now.

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16:17 <RomW> Okay, faulty AMD drivers then

16:17 <AlbinoGeek> Detecting the ATI Radeon HD 5400 breaks BOINC client 7.

16:17 <AlbinoGeek> RomW: That's the thing, it doesn't break in BOINC 6

16:17 <AlbinoGeek> 6.8. whatever WCG was

16:18 <RomW> 6.8 doesn't support GPUs IIRC

16:18 <AlbinoGeek> RomW: :/  You sure?  It would list them in the init.

16:18 <PovAddict> or maybe it does but only nvidia?

16:18 <RomW> It might have only been Nvidia

16:19 <RomW> I think WCG deploys 6.10

16:19 <AlbinoGeek> Worth noting that http://i.imgur.com/ml64SAg.png it's only running one application now.

16:19 <RomW> 6.8 is used by PTP, GridRepublic, and Charity Engine

16:20 <RomW> Should check the event log, you might have processed your quota

16:21 <AlbinoGeek> RomW: Hmm, nope; it was the default computing settings.

16:21 <AlbinoGeek> When I set them all to 100% it started downloading more projects.

16:21 <AlbinoGeek> The defaults were terrible

16:21 <AlbinoGeek> use at most 20% cores?  seriously ?

16:22 <RomW> In any case, I suspect you'll run into scheduling problems for awhile, until we can figure out what the correct processor count is supposed to be, BOINC will do screwy things

16:22 <AlbinoGeek> RomW: Ehh, I set the cores to 25%, it uses 24.  Seems to work fine now.  It's running 24 units.

16:22 <RomW> That has to be something WCG sets up by default when you connect up to them

16:22 <AlbinoGeek> http://i.imgur.com/KdAH9cw.png

16:23 <PovAddict> did you hear Opera is moving to WebKit?

16:23 <AlbinoGeek> 25% of 96 = 24 :)

16:23 <RomW> I guess that'll work

16:23 <AlbinoGeek> Hmm, glad it's working now.

16:24 <AlbinoGeek> RomW: Looks like you guys need to contact ATI about their drivers, or figure out why your "look for compatible GPUs" function causes an infinite loop, lol.

16:24 <AlbinoGeek> Was using 100% of one core trying to find compatible GPUs

16:24 <RomW> You can probably upgrade/downgrade the AMD driver and find one that works with BOINC and your card

16:25 <AlbinoGeek> RomW: Running ATI-Latest (beta, not whql) drivers.  Functions on everything else, even reverse engineering and cracking projects.

16:25 <AlbinoGeek> Not sure why it wouldn't work on BOINC.

16:25 <AlbinoGeek> I can use it with any CUDA-compatible software.

16:25 <AlbinoGeek> Jack, ntmlam, etc.

16:26 <Tank_Master> im using the 13.2 beta drivvers with no isues

16:30 <AlbinoGeek> Tank_Master: Same driver here, but BOINC obviously doesn't like it.

16:30 <RomW> well, there are three parts to the equation

16:30 <RomW> BOINC/Driver/Card

16:31 <RomW> There is something with that combination of stuff that is causing the processor to spin

16:42 <Tank_Master> it may be something with the way it interacts with hypervisor, im running w/o it

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19:09 <desti_T2> http://insideevs.com/abb-first-to-bring-combined-charging-system-and-multistandard-to-market/

19:09 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/ar2drpj> (at insideevs.com)

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21:58 <zombie67> boinctasks will not connect to any of my windows machines, after installing the lates batch of windows updates on them.

21:58 <zombie67> any ideas?

21:58 <zombie67> I tried turning off the firewall of the windows machines

21:58 <zombie67> tried reinstalling BOINC

21:59 <zombie67> brb

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22:13 <zombie67> back

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22:15 <RomW> Does BOINC log any error messages to stderrdae.txt?

22:16 <zombie67> is that question to me?

22:17 <RomW> yeah

22:18 <zombie67> about not being able to connect via boinctasks?

22:19 <RomW> yup

22:19 <RomW> Can BOINC Manager connect?

22:19 <zombie67> I am trying bm now

22:20 <zombie67> no

22:21 <RomW> I'm assuming that is for BOINC Manager not being able to connect?

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22:21 <zombie67> boincmanager on local mac, trying to connect to remote windows machine, post updates

22:22 <PovAddict> can a local boinc manager connect on the windows machine?

22:22 <zombie67> I have 5 windows machines, all are now in the same state

22:22 <zombie67> pov, yes

22:22 <RomW> okay, that leaves finding out what has been logged to stderrdae.txt and stdoutdae.txt

22:23 <zombie67> bm can connect to my other macs just fine

22:23 <zombie67> from which machine?

22:23 <RomW> One of the Windows boxes

22:24 <zombie67> okay, lemme look

22:27 <zombie67> vnc has become molasses since the upgrade too

22:29 <zombie67> GLE:  Another instance of BOINC is running

22:32 <RomW> Odd

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22:33 <RomW> Okay, so the client thinks it has successfully created the port it listens on

22:34 <PovAddict> ah

22:34 <zombie67> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55884901/stderrdae.txt

22:34 <zombie67> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55884901/stdoutdae.txt

22:34 <PovAddict> manager starts, can't connect to the client, assumes it's not running so tries to run the client again, client won't start because an instance is already running?

22:35 <zombie67> fyi, the stderrdae.txt was not updated since 01/15

22:35 <RomW> generally

22:35 <PovAddict> oh then that's not it

22:35 <zombie67> I don't think the local manager is able to get to the remote client

22:35 <zombie67> so the rtemote client won't have any data

22:36 <zombie67> it's like a firewall problem, except that's not it

22:37 <zombie67> whoop!

22:37 <zombie67> this is new

22:37 <zombie67> now BM is giving me the pop up with "communicating with boinc client, please wait...."

22:37 <zombie67> maybe the remote machine will have some data to share this time

22:38 <PovAddict> in my experience I find that asynchronous RPC stuff in the manager isn't worth a damn

22:38 <zombie67> it keep poping up, then going away, then popping up...

22:38 <PovAddict> if the client is slow, the manager is either slow or pops up that "please wait" thing

22:39 <zombie67> and finally success!

22:39 <PovAddict> and if the client hangs due to the typical synchronous DNS thing, I still can't control the client because I have the "please wait" popup, so I don't know what is gained by doing the communication on a separate thread

22:39 <zombie67> but why is this happening with just the windows machines, and only after updating with the latest batch of updates from msft?

22:39 <PovAddict> (and apps still suicide due to no heartbeats)

22:40 <zombie67> says I am connected, but the time is not changing

22:41 <zombie67> this sux

22:42 <zombie67> I will not be schleping a mouse kbrd and monitor from machine to machines several times per day...

22:42 <PovAddict> vnc/rdp/kvm...

22:43 <zombie67> I use vnc today

22:43 <zombie67> but it's like molasis

22:43 <zombie67> after the updates

22:43 <zombie67> I will chalk this up to msft for now

22:44 <zombie67> it shouldn't be this hard

22:44 <PovAddict> what VNC flavor?

22:44 <zombie67> jollyfastvnc

22:44 <PovAddict> I mean on the Windows side

22:44 <zombie67> I have also used chickenofthevnc

22:44 <zombie67> oh, ultravnc

22:45 <zombie67> do you have a version you like?

22:45 <PovAddict> maybe the windows updates broke the mirror video driver that ultravnc uses to be fast

22:45 <zombie67> maybe

22:46 <RomW> Or it just needs to be re-installed

22:46 <PovAddict> sure

22:46 <RomW> Sometimes the mini-port position gets out of whack

22:46 <PovAddict> the updates broke it, maybe simply a reinstall fixes it :)

22:47 <zombie67> Yeah, I tried that idea with BOINC, fail

22:47 <RomW> I'm just saying it was a semi-common problem before plug and play

22:48 <RomW> and none of the mirroring drivers are classified as plug and play

22:48 <PovAddict> I still find it funny that I can install a VNC server that puts a *mirroring video driver* in the middle of the graphics rendering path, and not need a reboot

22:48 <RomW> So the mini-port stacking issue could be a problem

22:48 <PovAddict> but I can't upgrade the web browser without a reboot

22:49 <RomW> One has a well defined and well ordered unload policy

22:49 <RomW> The other, not so much

22:50 <zombie67> I run boinctasks via codeweaver (wine).  IN trying to fix the issue, I upgraded to the latest version of CW.  But BT doesn't work with CW 12.x.  Still doesn't.  Now I have to go find an 11.3 version and reinstall it.  Grr.

22:50 <RomW> One of these days, I'm hoping they will put the hot patch technology to good use

22:51 <PovAddict> in the direction they are moving, I doubt it :P

22:52 <RomW> Well, adjusting a running process's fix-up table was a hard problem

22:52 <PovAddict> first they have to solve the new identity crisis of whether Windows is a computer operating system or an iOS-like :P

22:52 <RomW> I hear that

22:52 <RomW> I'm not to keen on the new shell

22:53 <PovAddict> it's not just the shell, it's also the app store thing, and the ARM port that can *only* run apps from the store

22:53 <PovAddict> <Sho_> I bought Windows 8 in December, and I have to  say it's the first truly modern OS designed for the internet age ... or at least I was unable to find out how to reboot it without using Google

22:53 <RomW> well the arm thing isn't all that different than the phone thing

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22:53 <zombie67> I installed an app on my win8 machine, that puts back the start button.

22:54 <zombie67> that makes it semi-usable.

22:54 <RomW> :)

22:54 <zombie67> but it is still extremely sluggish compared to win7

22:54 <zombie67> and this is with the fastest i7 and 16gb of ram

22:54 <RomW> I did the same thing too, but that was because the Media Center software wouldn't load automatically without it

22:55 <zombie67> what a stinking turd

22:55 <PovAddict> some in the Linux crowd are excited :P

22:55 <RomW> Which I found odd, considering MS wrote the Media Center software and you have to pay extra for

22:55 <zombie67> it's fine, with a touch/pad interface, but suxks as a desktop

22:56 <zombie67> who uses only one app at a time in real life??

22:56 <RomW> my mother, father, grandfather

22:56 <RomW> I can't

22:57 <zombie67> most of my desktop time is taking information from several different apps and doing things with it.

22:57 <PovAddict> zombie67: http://artescritorio.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/windows-1-0-windows-8.jpg

22:57 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/cz9yswn> (at artescritorio.com)

22:57 <zombie67> all at the saem time

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22:58 <zombie67> funny

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22:59 <zombie67> I think they saw the success of iOS and the popularity of tablets, and tried to leapfrog apple, and put that nonsense on the desktop.

23:01 <PovAddict> <Sho_> i still say the computer industry stopped making relevant progress after http://www.eikehein.com/files/supercomputer.jpg *shrugs*

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23:04 <zombie67> I like the badge system that wuprop has introduced

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23:04 <zombie67> it is very similar to MMs.  But instead of credits/project.  It is hours/app

23:09 <zombie67> AAAAARGH!

23:09 <zombie67> solved it.

23:10 <zombie67> "We Have Met The Enemy and He Is Us." -- Walt Kelly

23:11 <zombie67> I attached all my machines to einstein....CPU only.  I need some credits with that app for the wuprop badge.

23:11 <zombie67> but I set the venue wrong.

23:12 <zombie67> ...including GPU by mistake.  and so for the last several hours, my machines have need downloading hundreds of massively huge tasks.

23:13 <zombie67> my network was saturated.  So BT and BM could not connect

23:13 <RomW> Ouch

23:13 <zombie67> einstein tasks are HUGE.

23:14 <zombie67> each one is like 10 parts, each quite large.

23:14 <zombie67> and I was download thousands of them

23:14 <zombie67> across 5 machines

23:14 <zombie67> all at the same time.

23:16 <zombie67> 250mb per task or so, if I recall correctly.

23:16 <RomW> I thought the client limited itself to two uploads/downloads at a time per project

23:16 <RomW> ?

23:17 <PovAddict> RomW: it does

23:17 <zombie67> it does

23:17 <zombie67> but I am stupid, and bumped that up to 20

23:17 <zombie67> because of seti

23:17 <PovAddict> oh

23:17 <RomW> oh

23:17 <RomW> lol

23:17 <PovAddict> geeez

23:17 <PovAddict> that means

23:17 <PovAddict> up to 400 concurrent transfers

23:17 <PovAddict> no wait

23:17 <PovAddict> -.-

23:18 <PovAddict> 200

23:18 <PovAddict> that's the worst case

23:18 <PovAddict> 20 downloads, 20 uploads, on all 5 machines

23:18 <zombie67> seti is such a trickle, you have to have many attempts going concurrently, and re-trying, over and over, just to keep a PIII machine fed

23:19 <zombie67> oh, and my network is all wi-fi

23:19 <RomW> ouch

23:19 <zombie67> yeah, completely self-induced.

23:19 <PovAddict> hmm

23:19 <PovAddict> I think I'll be making a crowdsourced project soon >.>

23:19 <zombie67> I set up that venue as school, and then attached all the machines as work

23:20 <zombie67> I'm in!

23:20 <PovAddict> like, brain processing :P

23:20 <zombie67> this is how skynet happens

23:20 <zombie67> or the Jesus Incident

23:20 <PovAddict> the scale of this is awfully big

23:21 <zombie67> big scale is what BOINC should be good at

23:21 <PovAddict> if I could write an image processing algorithm for this, I *might* not need BOINC

23:22 <PovAddict> since I can't, I need humans

23:22 <RomW> PyBossa?

23:22 <zombie67> whatever you do, make it checkpoint please.

23:22 <zombie67> all the rendering projects don't checkpoint

23:22 <PovAddict> zombie67: this is not processing, this is people working, like stardust

23:23 <PovAddict> RomW: maybe

23:23 <zombie67> wait, you want me to work?  F that noise

23:23 <PovAddict> I did say brain/human processing :P

23:23 <zombie67> that's why I have machines

23:23 <zombie67> I thought you meant sinulating brain processing

23:23 <zombie67> on a computer

23:23 <RomW> Well just a warning, Daniel likes shiny web technology

23:23 <PovAddict> http://ecn.t0.tiles.virtualearth.net/tiles/a03331303103103220.jpeg?g=1145 Middle of Nowhere, Mopti, Mali (african continent)

23:23 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/bptxtk9> (at ecn.t0.tiles.virtualearth.net)

23:24 <zombie67> looks about right

23:24 <zombie67> anyone else use wine on osx?

23:25 <PovAddict> it's 79017km²

23:25 <zombie67> I have like codeweaver, because it simplifies the installation of BT.  But since 12.x, it doesn't work.

23:25 <PovAddict> and sometimes, in the middle of the desert... http://ecn.t0.tiles.virtualearth.net/tiles/a0333130310310222.jpeg?g=1145 a settlement

23:25 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/bpoatae> (at ecn.t0.tiles.virtualearth.net)

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23:26 <zombie67> anytime I hear people worrying about "overpopulation", I have to laugh.  I have driven across the US many times.  There is so much empty space in the country alone....

23:26 <PovAddict> zombie67: these populated areas are very sparse, the problem is finding them

23:27 <zombie67> And the population has stopped growing

23:27 <zombie67> globvally

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23:27 <zombie67> we are all turning into japan.

23:27 <PovAddict> let's say you need this resolution to notice them: http://ecn.t0.tiles.virtualearth.net/tiles/a03331303103102220.jpeg?g=1145

23:27 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/cer3wu5> (at ecn.t0.tiles.virtualearth.net)

23:27 <zombie67> some faster than others, but we have peaked

23:28 <zombie67> http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/01/world_population_may_actually_start_declining_not_exploding.html

23:28 <Romulus> <http://tinyurl.com/a7c5gq7> (at www.slate.com)

23:28 <PovAddict> that means...

23:29 <PovAddict> at that resolution there are 845310 map tiles to look at

23:29 <zombie67> why can't we have a computer do it?

23:30 <PovAddict> I can write a program to give users images to look at and to click when they see buildings

23:30 <PovAddict> I can't write a program that uses image recognition to find buildings automatically

23:30 <zombie67> why not?

23:31 <zombie67> sounds like the wildlife project

23:31 <PovAddict> because I, personally, don't know sh1t about computer vision algorithms? :P

23:31 <zombie67> finde someone who can

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23:31 <zombie67> easier than finding hundereds of people to look at pictures

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23:32 <PovAddict> well

23:32 <PovAddict> after I did the maths, this is much bigger than I thought

23:33 <PovAddict> going one zoomlevel further means four times the pictures, so yeah...

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23:38 <RomW> Android is a pain

23:38 <RomW> Grrrr

23:43 <zombie67> so are batteries

23:44 <RomW> lol

23:46 <RomW> That they are

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23:51 <zombie67> dangerous too

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